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1. 08:04 AM - Re: L29-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 02/24/06 (Jean de Roubin)
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| Subject: | Re: L29-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 02/24/06 |
--> L29-List message posted by: Jean de Roubin <delfin@mail.pf>
The L-29 whith were used in hot countries (Ouganda, Egypt) had a
special larger entry for cold air. I have one on my plane. It is a
little bit better
Le 24 fvr. 06 21:58, L29-List Digest Server a crit :
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete L29-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version
> of the L29-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/l29-list/Digest.L29-List.
> 2006-02-24.html
>
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>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/l29-list/Digest.L29-List.
> 2006-02-24.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> L29-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 02/24/06: 12
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 01:26 AM - Re: L-29 Air Conditioning (Jean de Roubin)
> 2. 09:47 AM - air con - real question (Jorgen Nielsen)
> 3. 09:52 AM - Re: air con - real question (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
> 4. 10:14 AM - Re: air con - real question (Ernest Martinez)
> 5. 11:24 AM - MANUAL ON CD? (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
> 6. 11:44 AM - Re: MANUAL ON CD? (Gary Cole)
> 7. 02:53 PM - Re: MANUAL ON CD? (Colyergreg@aol.com)
> 8. 02:56 PM - Re: air con - real question (Jorgen Nielsen)
> 9. 04:07 PM - Re: air con - real question (AI Nut)
> 10. 06:00 PM - Re: MANUAL ON CD? (Bill)
> 11. 11:47 PM - L-29 and other jets at Reno Air Races?
> (SD737@aol.com)
> 12. 11:48 PM - More RARA jet info (SD737@aol.com)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:26:03 AM PST US
> From: Jean de Roubin <delfin@mail.pf>
> Subject: Re: L29-List: L-29 Air Conditioning
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: Jean de Roubin <delfin@mail.pf>
>
> Hi, could you try to send me directly the attachement for AC
> With many thanks
> Jean de Roubin
>
>
> Le 22 f=E9vr. 06 =E0 23:52, SD737@aol.com a =E9crit :
>
>> --> L29-List message posted by: SD737@aol.com
>>
>> Ah, the attachment did not follow through the matronics system...
>> sorry guys
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:47:40 AM PST US
> From: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
> Subject: L29-List: air con - real question
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
> <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
>
> Has anyone ever stripped down the components of the air con
> system? I can
> accept that its not a great system, but I don't seem to get air
> flow through
> it.
>
> Lots of cool air would be good, but even warm air blowing on me
> would be
> better than no air!
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:52:04 AM PST US
> From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
> Subject: Re: L29-List: air con - real question
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
>
> OK I don't really know anything about jets, or systems, but I'll
> throw in my
> 2 cents worth. Does the jet have a 110V AC power supply while in
> the air? If
> so, could you not strip down a $100 window unit AC like used in a
> house,
> reconfigure/reshape it so it will fit into whatever baggage space
> you have?
> Maybe replace the existing AC unit, and hook up to existing duct
> work? How
> ridiculous of an idea is this?
> Boyce
> already laughing at the idea....
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:14:38 AM PST US
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: L29-List: air con - real question
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> The L-29 air conditioning unit is a turbo-cooler design. Hot bleed air
> fromthe compressor is sent through a diverter/mixer valve, one side of
> the diverter valve goes straight into the cockpit to provide heat, the
> air is turned on by pushing the cabin pressurization valve on. The
> other side of the diverter valve goes through an air2air heat
> exchanger to pre-cool the hot bleed air, the output of the heat
> exchanger goes through a turbine. The act of turning turbine expends
> enrgery and thereby cools the air. then it is mixed with the hot side
> from the diverter valve to regulate the air temp. The diverter valve
> is controlled by the 3 position switch in the cockpit, cold diverts
> all air to to the heat exchanger, hot bypasses the heat exchanger, and
> automat controls the diverter valve based on the thermostat in the
> cokpit, mixing the hot and cold bleed air to the desired temp.
>
> There are 2 major problems with the system. First the heat exchanger
> relies on RAM air in order to cool the hot bleed air, when the jet is
> stationary the heat exchanger does nothing due to lack of RAM air. The
> second issue is that the cooler turbine is too small to really cool
> the air sufficiently to work in extreme temps. A larger turbine cannot
> be fitted (Like the L-39 unit) because the M-701 doesnt have
> sufficient excess bleed air capacity to turn anything larger and still
> maintain combustion pressures.
>
> I have worked on and off on a 24v powered auto air compressor, but
> this also has its limitations. There is very little room in the nose
> compartment for a sufficient size condensor. There is no good place to
> place an decent size evaporator in the cockpit, and there is no easy
> way to deal with condensation in the cockpit, so you would end up with
> a whole lot of water in the belly.
>
> I experimented with a marine type refrigeration 24v compressor but it
> didnt have the capacity required for cooling. I may try again with a
> 24v syncronous motor which may have the required torque to turn the
> compressor, but power draw will be on the order of about 60 amps.
> Plumbing through the pressure vessel is also an issue which needs
> resolution.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 2/24/06, RAMPEYBOY@aol.com <RAMPEYBOY@aol.com> wrote:
>> --> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
>>
>> OK I don't really know anything about jets, or systems, but I'll
>> throw in my
>> 2 cents worth. Does the jet have a 110V AC power supply while in
>> the air? If
>> so, could you not strip down a $100 window unit AC like used in a
>> house,
>> reconfigure/reshape it so it will fit into whatever baggage space
>> you have?
>> Maybe replace the existing AC unit, and hook up to existing duct
>> work? How
>> ridiculous of an idea is this?
>> Boyce
>> already laughing at the idea....
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:24:03 AM PST US
> From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
> Subject: L29-List: MANUAL ON CD?
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
>
> I read on the list about the L-29 manual being available on CD.
> How do I get
> one, and how much? "Zach" was the reported contact person, but the
> Email I
> had for him bounced back. Thanks!
> Boyce
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:44:39 AM PST US
> From: "Gary Cole" <ca6209@flash.net>
> Subject: RE: L29-List: MANUAL ON CD?
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: "Gary Cole" <ca6209@flash.net>
>
> Try Z at www.warbirdseast.com
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 1:24 PM
> Subject: L29-List: MANUAL ON CD?
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
>
> I read on the list about the L-29 manual being available on CD.
> How do I
> get
> one, and how much? "Zach" was the reported contact person, but the
> Email I
> had for him bounced back. Thanks!
> Boyce
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:53:04 PM PST US
> From: Colyergreg@aol.com
> Subject: Re: L29-List: MANUAL ON CD?
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: Colyergreg@aol.com
>
> I have it available on CD. In fact I have all the manuals
> available. Free
> Just pay for the shipping and a disk.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:56:38 PM PST US
> From: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
> Subject: RE: L29-List: air con - real question
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
> <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
>
> Comprehensive answer Ernie!
>
> OK so no easy answers re the aircon. I remember you were
> experimenting.
>
> Regarding airflow, when the aircon is running, cool or hot, can you
> actually
> feel any type of breeze in the cockpit?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest
> Martinez
> Sent: 24 February 2006 08:14 PM
> Subject: Re: L29-List: air con - real question
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> The L-29 air conditioning unit is a turbo-cooler design. Hot bleed air
> fromthe compressor is sent through a diverter/mixer valve, one side
> of the
> diverter valve goes straight into the cockpit to provide heat, the
> air is
> turned on by pushing the cabin pressurization valve on. The other
> side of
> the diverter valve goes through an air2air heat exchanger to pre-
> cool the
> hot bleed air, the output of the heat exchanger goes through a
> turbine. The
> act of turning turbine expends enrgery and thereby cools the air.
> then it is
> mixed with the hot side from the diverter valve to regulate the air
> temp.
> The diverter valve is controlled by the 3 position switch in the
> cockpit,
> cold diverts all air to to the heat exchanger, hot bypasses the heat
> exchanger, and automat controls the diverter valve based on the
> thermostat
> in the cokpit, mixing the hot and cold bleed air to the desired temp.
>
> There are 2 major problems with the system. First the heat
> exchanger relies
> on RAM air in order to cool the hot bleed air, when the jet is
> stationary
> the heat exchanger does nothing due to lack of RAM air. The second
> issue is
> that the cooler turbine is too small to really cool the air
> sufficiently to
> work in extreme temps. A larger turbine cannot be fitted (Like the
> L-39
> unit) because the M-701 doesnt have sufficient excess bleed air
> capacity to
> turn anything larger and still maintain combustion pressures.
>
> I have worked on and off on a 24v powered auto air compressor, but
> this also
> has its limitations. There is very little room in the nose
> compartment for a
> sufficient size condensor. There is no good place to place an
> decent size
> evaporator in the cockpit, and there is no easy way to deal with
> condensation in the cockpit, so you would end up with a whole lot
> of water
> in the belly.
>
> I experimented with a marine type refrigeration 24v compressor but
> it didnt
> have the capacity required for cooling. I may try again with a 24v
> syncronous motor which may have the required torque to turn the
> compressor,
> but power draw will be on the order of about 60 amps.
> Plumbing through the pressure vessel is also an issue which needs
> resolution.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 2/24/06, RAMPEYBOY@aol.com <RAMPEYBOY@aol.com> wrote:
>> --> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
>>
>> OK I don't really know anything about jets, or systems, but I'll
>> throw in my
>> 2 cents worth. Does the jet have a 110V AC power supply while in the
>> air? If so, could you not strip down a $100 window unit AC like used
>> in a house, reconfigure/reshape it so it will fit into whatever
>> baggage
> space you have?
>> Maybe replace the existing AC unit, and hook up to existing duct
>> work? How ridiculous of an idea is this?
>> Boyce
>> already laughing at the idea....
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:07:36 PM PST US
> From: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
> Subject: Re: L29-List: air con - real question
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>
> Or is there anyplace one can attach an automotive type compressor?
> Shaft speeds on the engine, of course, are out of the question.
>
> David M.
>
>
> RAMPEYBOY@aol.com wrote:
>
>> --> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
>>
>> OK I don't really know anything about jets, or systems, but I'll
>> throw in my
>
>> 2 cents worth. Does the jet have a 110V AC power supply while in
>> the air? If
>
>> so, could you not strip down a $100 window unit AC like used in a
>> house,
>> reconfigure/reshape it so it will fit into whatever baggage space
>> you have?
>
>> Maybe replace the existing AC unit, and hook up to existing duct
>> work? How
>> ridiculous of an idea is this?
>> Boyce
>> already laughing at the idea....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:00:13 PM PST US
> From: "Bill" <czech6@kellin.net>
> Subject: Re: L29-List: MANUAL ON CD?
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: "Bill" <czech6@kellin.net>
>
> The cd will be at our little get together in Calif.
> I can burn some. (I'll try)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RAMPEYBOY@aol.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 1:23 PM
> Subject: L29-List: MANUAL ON CD?
>
>
>> --> L29-List message posted by: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
>>
>> I read on the list about the L-29 manual being available on CD.
>> How do I
>> get
>> one, and how much? "Zach" was the reported contact person, but
>> the Email
>> I
>> had for him bounced back. Thanks!
>> Boyce
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:47:16 PM PST US
> From: SD737@aol.com
> Subject: L29-List: L-29 and other jets at Reno Air Races?
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: SD737@aol.com
>
> Hi guys,
> I live in Reno and I spoke with the Reno Air Race Association
> (RARA) two
> weeks ago and asked about L-29's getting into the races and he said
> that
> actually they might not have the L-39's race any longer. He said
> they don't
> make
> enough noise and that the crowd finds them boring. Also, last
> year Dave
> Canavo's L-39 walked away with the race, and so there really
> wasn't a race hence
>
> it wasn't much of a crowd pleaser....
> Read this article below.
>
> Some of you may have heard that the L-39 Jet Races in Reno are in
> jeopardy.
> There is some truth to that rumor. I won't get into the politics of
> the issue,
>
> however, it is a reality that RARA is looking to improve the
> participation
> and sponsorship for the event. CJAA member Jim O'neal is
> spearheading an
> effort to gather enough support to keep the Jets from becoming a
> footnote at Reno.
>
> I will be lending my support on behalf of CJAA as well. The
> initial concept
> is to pattern the Jets after all the other competitiive classes.
> What this
> means in a nutshell is that all subsonic speed jet aircraft will
> be able to
> compete rather than a one only (L-39) model. SOOOOO, any jet,
> (L-29's, Casa's,
>
> Fouga's, Tweets, Provosts,Iskra's, T-33's, L-39's, etc., etc.
> etc.) will be
> racing against similar SPEED aircraft. Jim is working to draw up a
> set of rules
>
> that will be the model for the event. We're going to bend as many
> elbows as
> we can to gather at least a minimum of 20+ Jets to committ to Reno
> this
> September. One other big hurdle that needs to be addressed is
> sponsorship for
> the
> Jet Class. Basically, we will need individuals, companies,
> corporations, etc.
>
> to sponsor the prize money for the class. Being a sponsor at the
> event does
> have its privileges.
> The bottom line is that we need to move on this ASAP. Watching the
> Races is
> a great adrenaline rush, now, guess what the feeling would be to
> participate!!!!!! Please, Please, contact me if you think that you
> or a group of
> you
> might wish to pool resources to race or sponsor part of the event.
> Jim and I will
>
> be at the Convention for a brief on the progress, and to answer any
> questions. E'mail me if you have any inclinations as we need to
> start recruiting
> Now.
> Tally Ho!! Doc B.l _mblevins@psln.com_ (mailto:mblevins@psln.com)
>
> Return-path: <BrienAttorney@aol.com>
> From: BrienAttorney@aol.com
> Full-name: BrienAttorney
> Subject: copy for your review
>
>
> -------------------------------1140848755
>
> Some of you may have heard that the L-39 Jet Races in Reno are in
> jeopardy.
> There is some truth to that rumor. I won't get into the politics of
> the issue,
>
> however, it is a reality that RARA is looking to improve the
> participation and
>
> sponsorship for the event. CJAA member Jim O'neal is spearheading
> an effort
> to gather enough support to keep the Jets from becoming a footnote
> at Reno. I
> will be lending my support on behalf of CJAA as well. The initial
> concept is to
>
> pattern the Jets after all the other competitiive classes. What
> this means in
> a nutshell is that all subsonic speed jet aircraft will be able to
> compete
> rather than a one only (L-39) model. SOOOOO, any jet, (L-29's,
> Casa's, Fouga's,
>
> Tweets, Provosts,Iskra's, T-33's, L-39's, etc., etc. etc.) will be
> racing
> against similar SPEED aircraft. Jim is working to draw up a set of
> rules that will
>
> be the model for the event. We're going to bend as many elbows as
> we can to
> gather at least a minimum of 20+ Jets to committ to Reno this
> September. One
> other big hurdle that needs to be addressed is sponsorship for the
> Jet Class.
> Basically, we will need individuals, companies, corporations, etc.
> to sponsor
> the prize money for the class. Being a sponsor at the event does
> have its
> privileges.
> The bottom line is that we need to move on this ASAP. Watching the
> Races is a
> great adrenaline rush, now, guess what the feeling would be to
> participate!!!!!! Please, Please, contact me if you think that you
> or a group of
> you might
> wish to pool resources to race or sponsor part of the event. Jim
> and I will be
>
> at the Convention for a brief on the progress, and to answer any
> questions.
> E'mail me if you have any inclinations as we need to start
> recruiting Now. Tally
>
> Ho!! Doc B.l mblevins@psln.com
>
>
> Law Offices of David R. Brien
> 23801 Calabasas Road, Suite 1006
> Calabasas, CA 91302
> Telephone: (818) 222-6887
> Facsimile: (818) 222-6894
> http://www.alternativedisputecenters.com/
>
> The information contained in
> this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential
> Use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an
> attorney-client communication and/or work product and as such is
> Privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the
> intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received
> this document in error and that any review, dissemination,
> Distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If
> you have received this communication in error, please notify us
> Immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. If you are not
> the intended recipient you are directed to delete this message and
> Destroy any copies thereof.
>
> -------------------------------1140848755
>
>
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=3DGENERATOR>
>
> Some of you may have heard that the L-39 Jet Races in Reno are in
> jeopardy. There
> is some truth to that rumor. I won't get into the politics of the
> issue, however,
> it is a reality that RARA is looking to improve the participation
> and sponsorship
> for the event. CJAA member Jim O'neal is spearheading an effort to
> gather enough support to keep the Jets from becoming a footnote at
> Reno. I will
> be lending my support on behalf of CJAA as well. The initial
> concept is to pattern
> the Jets after all the other competitiive classes.=20What this
> means in
> a nutshell is that all subsonic speed jet aircraft will be able to
> compete rather
> than a one only (L-39) model. SOOOOO, any jet, (L-29's, Casa's,
> Fouga's,
> Tweets, Provosts,Iskra's, T-33's, L-39's, etc., etc. etc.) will be
> racing against
> similar SPEED aircraft. Jim is working to draw up a set of rules
> that will
> be the model for the event. We're going to bend as many elbows as
> we can to gather
> at least a minimum of 20+ Jets to committ=20to Reno this September.
> One
> other big hurdle that needs to be addressed is sponsorship for the
> Jet Class.
> Basically, we will need individuals, companies, corporations, etc.
> to sponsor
> the prize money for the class. Being a sponsor at the event does
> have its privileges.
> The bottom line is that we need to move on this ASAP. Watching the
> Races is a great
> adrenaline rush, now, guess what the feeling would be to
> participate!!!!!!
> Please, Please, contact=20me if you think that you or a group of
> you might wish
> to pool resources to race or sponsor part of the event. Jim and I
> will be
> at the Convention for a=20brief on the progress, and to answer any
> questions.
> E'mail me if you have any inclinations as we need to start
> recruiting Now. Tally
> Ho!! Doc B.l mblevins@psln.com
>
>
> Law Offices of David R. Brien
> 23801 Calabasas Road, Suite 1006
> Calabasas, CA 91302
> Telephone: (818) 222-6887
> Facsimile: (818) 222-6894
> <A title=3Dhttp://www.alternativedisputecenters.com/ /">http://
> www.alternativedisputecenters.com/
>
> The information contained in
> this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential
> Use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an
> attorney-client communication and/or work product and as such is
> Privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the
> intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the
> intended recipient, you are=20hereby notified that you have received
> this document in error and that any review, dissemination,
> Distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If
> you have received this communication in error, please notify us
> Immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. If you are not
> the intended recipient you are directed to delete this message and
> Destroy any copies thereof.
>
> -------------------------------1140848755--
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 12
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:48:06 PM PST US
> From: SD737@aol.com
> Subject: L29-List: More RARA jet info
>
> --> L29-List message posted by: SD737@aol.com
>
> A number of you are already aware that the Reno Air Racing Association
> (RARA) is questioning the value of the L-39 Jet races in Reno,as
> to participation
>
> and sponsorship. With the blessing of CJAA and under the
> leadership of Jim
> O'Neal, I'm asking that the L-39 owners/pilots gather as much
> support as you
> can to keep the Jet class from becoming extinct. We're looking to
> include other
>
> subsonic jet species. (29's, Casa's, Fouga's, Provost's, etc,
> etc.) The
> concept is to have "like speed" models racing against each other
> rather than one
>
> model (39). This would mean that we would have a Gold, Siver,
> Bronze event
> similar to the other classes. For that reason we need committed
> planes. For
> first time racing pilots there is a school that you must attend
> ("which way is
>
> left"!!!!!) If you've had the desire to compete, now is the time.
> If you
> choose not to compete, but, would like to help financially as a
> sponsor of the
> Jet
> Class, 50% of all sponsor money goes back to the racers as prize
> money, we
> need you as well. I also, posted a similar plea on the CJAA website
> (classicjets.org_) Please contact me by E'mail or phone if you can
> help out.
> #530-253-3947 _mblevins@psln.com_ (mailto:mblevins@psln.com) See
> you at the Races. Doc
> B.
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>
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