Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:31 AM - Slow (SD737@aol.com)
2. 11:16 AM - Re: Slow (Ernest Martinez)
3. 12:33 PM - Re: Slow (SD737@aol.com)
4. 01:18 PM - Re: Slow (Brian Colombo)
Message 1
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--> L29-List message posted by: SD737@aol.com
Oh,.... I Know I shouldn't.....but I've got some time to kill before I catch
my flight home, so..
Well, I've owned 2 Yak-52's and flown the CJ. Slow is slow and both of
those planes are SLOOOW. It's all relative. The L-29 is pretty slow also,
but it's all fun.
I also have a Lancair 360 along with the L-29, so if fuel economy is an
issue, which it isn't, I fly that. Sure seems easier to fly formation with a
slow airplane and a propeller. (I'm sure that will open some discussion..)
LOL
Flying in a mass formation does nothing for me. I'm not into crowds whether
it be on the highway or in the sky or anywhere else really. I especially
have ZERO desire to hang out with a bunch of guys playing military fighter
pilot with Russian or Chinese Yaks, not that there's anything wrong with that...
;-)
As an example when I go water ski, I do it at a tournament lake with ONE
boat and one skier on the water at a time, not at a public lake with a bunch of
Yahoos! When I go snow skiing I prefer it in blizzard conditions with fresh
snow and NO Yahoos!. A Mass of anything much less a mass that involves a
Mass of people is not something that I actively seek out.
The only "Mass" I enjoy is flying a 767 Heavy to the Hawaiian Islands with
the "Mass" of people sitting behind me separated by a closed cockpit door.
Pucker Factor? As far as pucker factor goes, try flying into Maui's Runway 02
with the winds funneling through the slot with a 40 degree x-wind blowing 20
gusting to 34 with a 400,000 pound airplane into a 6,995 foot runway!!
You'll feel the pucker like you've never felt before. The end of the 6,995 foot
runway approaches faster than you've ever seen at 160 knots with 400,000
pounds behind you.
Wake Turbulence? You ever experienced the wake turbulence of a 757 or 777
or 747? Pucker factor from CJ wake turbulence...?? LOL!
And as far as wealth goes, then I must be wealthy cause I got my FAST card
in the L-29 and the fuel bill was a mere 2,800 bucks for the weekend. Chump
change in the big scheme of things. And my fellow west coast 29 guys had a
sizable fuel bill also. I do hear what your saying. A Yak-52 or a CJ sure
makes it much more affordable to go up and have some fun. This is basically why
we can't give our L-29's away because anyone with a brain can figure out the
fuel cost is excessive and they can buy something else to get their jollies
and fly for a whole year for what they'll piss away in a weekend with a jet.
Also, the CJ and Yak-52 are basic trainers and easy for guys to get into
since most general aviation guys don't have much over a few hundred hours. For
that matter the newly rated private pilot can safely jump in a CJ or Yak-52
and have a ball.
Oh well, what do ya do?
Doesn't really matter to the guy that is in a Cessna 152 or a CJ or a L-29,
etc...
The rest of us are making the best out of what we can afford.
Although it's our military fighter guys that get to play with the real
equipment and have real training for formation and tactical manuevers!
But, like I said it's all fun and if we can become better pilots and learn
something new then we're all winners.
Happy Easter guys!
Message 2
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--> L29-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Well I cant speak for flying heavies, since the heaviest thing I've
flown is the L-29. Speed has little impact on formation flying since
if you're doing it right your relative speed in relation to the other
plane is going to be 0.
Break ups and rejoins are the only place where speed might make a
difference.......somewhat. Since you're all going at relatively the
same speed the time factors should all be the same, the turning arc
will be greater and you'll be covering more distance but closure rates
on the rejoin should be the same as in any other airplane, except that
you do have the ability to come in with a whole lot more smash, and
that should make the overshoot a little more exciting!
I guess its what you're into, I enjoy flying in the airshows and doing
the Mass formations, and getting together afterwards with the other
guys and having a good time at some local haunt. I also enjoy playing
fighter pilot for a day, with my flight suit and helmet, I'm going to
install O2 in my CJ so I have an excuse to wear the mask :) The most
fun is the formation clinics that we hold several times a year, its
nice to go up and do close and extended trail with 4 airplanes 5 times
a day. Another neat thing to do is tactical formation, and this is
great with just 2 planes. Learn to do check turns, delayed 90 degree
turns, shackles, etc. Ask Bill to teach you guys next time you get
together, you'll may like better than just flying off of a wing.
You guys are all welcome into RPA since it is inclusive to jets, and
the people are....lets just say different than in CJAA. Plus a lot of
guys would probably be willing to split fuel costs with you to go up
and do some form in the jet. And conversely, guys with no Yak or CJ
time can see how easy it is to fly form in the CJ :)
Dont get me wrong, I love my L-29, just wish I could fly it more often.
On 4/16/06, SD737@aol.com <SD737@aol.com> wrote:
> --> L29-List message posted by: SD737@aol.com
>
>
> Oh,.... I Know I shouldn't.....but I've got some time to kill before I catch
> my flight home, so..
>
> Well, I've owned 2 Yak-52's and flown the CJ. Slow is slow and both of
> those planes are SLOOOW. It's all relative. The L-29 is pretty slow also,
> but it's all fun.
> I also have a Lancair 360 along with the L-29, so if fuel economy is an
> issue, which it isn't, I fly that. Sure seems easier to fly formation with a
> slow airplane and a propeller. (I'm sure that will open some discussion..)
> LOL
> Flying in a mass formation does nothing for me. I'm not into crowds whether
> it be on the highway or in the sky or anywhere else really. I especially
> have ZERO desire to hang out with a bunch of guys playing military fighter
> pilot with Russian or Chinese Yaks, not that there's anything wrong with that...
> ;-)
> As an example when I go water ski, I do it at a tournament lake with ONE
> boat and one skier on the water at a time, not at a public lake with a bunch
of
> Yahoos! When I go snow skiing I prefer it in blizzard conditions with fresh
> snow and NO Yahoos!. A Mass of anything much less a mass that involves a
> Mass of people is not something that I actively seek out.
> The only "Mass" I enjoy is flying a 767 Heavy to the Hawaiian Islands with
> the "Mass" of people sitting behind me separated by a closed cockpit door.
> Pucker Factor? As far as pucker factor goes, try flying into Maui's Runway 02
> with the winds funneling through the slot with a 40 degree x-wind blowing 20
> gusting to 34 with a 400,000 pound airplane into a 6,995 foot runway!!
> You'll feel the pucker like you've never felt before. The end of the 6,995 foot
> runway approaches faster than you've ever seen at 160 knots with 400,000
> pounds behind you.
> Wake Turbulence? You ever experienced the wake turbulence of a 757 or 777
> or 747? Pucker factor from CJ wake turbulence...?? LOL!
> And as far as wealth goes, then I must be wealthy cause I got my FAST card
> in the L-29 and the fuel bill was a mere 2,800 bucks for the weekend. Chump
> change in the big scheme of things. And my fellow west coast 29 guys had a
> sizable fuel bill also. I do hear what your saying. A Yak-52 or a CJ sure
> makes it much more affordable to go up and have some fun. This is basically
why
> we can't give our L-29's away because anyone with a brain can figure out the
> fuel cost is excessive and they can buy something else to get their jollies
> and fly for a whole year for what they'll piss away in a weekend with a jet.
> Also, the CJ and Yak-52 are basic trainers and easy for guys to get into
> since most general aviation guys don't have much over a few hundred hours.
For
> that matter the newly rated private pilot can safely jump in a CJ or Yak-52
> and have a ball.
> Oh well, what do ya do?
> Doesn't really matter to the guy that is in a Cessna 152 or a CJ or a L-29,
> etc...
> The rest of us are making the best out of what we can afford.
> Although it's our military fighter guys that get to play with the real
> equipment and have real training for formation and tactical manuevers!
> But, like I said it's all fun and if we can become better pilots and learn
> something new then we're all winners.
>
> Happy Easter guys!
>
>
Message 3
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--> L29-List message posted by: SD737@aol.com
Earnie, I enjoyed your response!
I actually enjoy the camaraderie in getting together with the guys also.
Just seems some of them are a bit too arrogant for my taste and often large
gatherings bring out those types.
I fly for the airlines and have a pretty diverse flying background, but I
have respect for whatever a guy's background might be. Doesn't matter to me
whether it be a student pilot on his first cross country or a military pilot
who serves our country. We all love aviation and some of the best people I've
met have been involved in aviation.
And I do miss my Yak-52. It was a great plane for up here at altitude in
Reno to be able to jump up for an hour and bang out some aerobatics without
having to burn more than 25 gallons.
So, speaking of get togethers... who's all going to Jet Blast in Wendover on
the weekend of May 19?
Message 4
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--> L29-List message posted by: "Brian Colombo" <Bcolombo@twcny.rr.com>
myself as well as 5 others from the east coast are flying com. out. should
be a lot of fun, the 104 is going to be highlight i am sure.
----- Original Message -----
From: <SD737@aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: L29-List: Slow
> --> L29-List message posted by: SD737@aol.com
>
> Earnie, I enjoyed your response!
>
> I actually enjoy the camaraderie in getting together with the guys also.
> Just seems some of them are a bit too arrogant for my taste and often
large
> gatherings bring out those types.
>
> I fly for the airlines and have a pretty diverse flying background, but I
> have respect for whatever a guy's background might be. Doesn't matter to
me
> whether it be a student pilot on his first cross country or a military
pilot
> who serves our country. We all love aviation and some of the best people
I've
> met have been involved in aviation.
>
> And I do miss my Yak-52. It was a great plane for up here at altitude in
> Reno to be able to jump up for an hour and bang out some aerobatics
without
> having to burn more than 25 gallons.
>
> So, speaking of get togethers... who's all going to Jet Blast in Wendover
on
> the weekend of May 19?
>
>
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