---------------------------------------------------------- L29-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/22/09: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: (Bill Culberson) 2. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: (Bill Geipel) 3. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Re: () 4. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: Re: (Bill Culberson) 5. 07:12 PM - L-29 (Jean de ROUBIN) 6. 09:11 PM - Re: L-29 (Bill Geipel) 7. 09:27 PM - Re: L-29 (Bill Culberson) 8. 09:44 PM - Re: L-29 (Bill Culberson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: L29-List: Re: From: "Bill Culberson" V2hlbiBJIHBhaW50ZWQgbWluZSwgd2UgcmVtb3ZlZCB0aGUgc3VyZmFjZXMsICAoYnV0IG5vdCBm bGFwcykgYW5kIGNoZWNrZWQgYmFsYW5jZSBiZWZvcmUgYW5kIGFmdGVyd2FyZC4gQXMgdGhlIHN1 cmZhY2VzIHdlcmUgaGVhdmllciB0aGFuIHRoZSB0eXBpY2FsIHJlLWJhbGFuY2luZyBhcyBzZWVu IG9uIHlvdXIgdHlwaWNhbCBsaWdodCBjaXZpbGlhbiBhaXJjcmFmdCwgY2hhbmdlcyBpbiBiYWxh bmNlIHdlcmUgZWZmZWN0aXZlbHkgdW5kZXRlY3RhYmxlIHdoaWNoIGlzIHdoYXQgSSB0aGluayAg QmlsbCBpcyBzYXlpbmcuIElmIHlvdSByZXNraW4gdGhlIHJ1ZGRlciwgd2VsbCBJIGd1ZXNzIHRo YXQgaXMgYSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgYW5pbWFsLiBUaGUgdXNlIG9mIGEgZGlmZmVyZW50IHNraW4gbWF0 ZXJpYWwgd291bGQgbWFrZSBtZSBuZXJ2b3VzLiBBZXJvICBoYWQgYSByZWFzb24gZm9yIHdoeSB0 aGV5IGJ1aWx0IHRoZSBhaXJjcmFmdCB0aGUgd2F5IHRoZXkgZGlkLiBKdXN0IG15IHRob3VnaHRz Li4uIEJpbGwNCg0KLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogb3duZXItbDI5 LWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gPG93bmVyLWwyOS1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25p Y3MuY29tPg0KVG86IGwyOS1saXN0IDxsMjktbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPjsgQmlsbCA8Y3pl Y2g2QG1lc2FuZXR3b3Jrcy5uZXQ+DQpTZW50OiBUaHUgT2N0IDIyIDAwOjQ4OjQzIDIwMDkNClN1 YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBMMjktTGlzdDogUmU6DQoNClVtbW0uLi4uLiBCZWNhdXNlIGEgbG90IG9mIEwt MjlzIGhhdmUgYmVlbiByZXBhaW50ZWQsIHJlLWVuZ2luZWQgb3IgaGF2ZSB3ZWlnaHQgYW5kIGJh bGFuY2UgY2hhbmdlcy4gDQoNCkFsc28gc29tZSBjb250cm9sIHN1cmZhY2VzIGhhdmUgYmVlbiBy ZXNraW5uZWQgZnJvbSBtYWduZXNpdW0gdG8gYWx1bWludW0uIA0KDQpUaGVzZSBhbGwgY2FuIGFm ZmVjdCBzYWZldHkgYW5kIHJlcXVpcmUgcHJvcGVyIGd1aWRhbmNlDQoNCkp1c3QgbXkgb3Bpbmlv bg0KDQpDaGVlcnMNCg0KUGF1bA0KTC0yOS5vcmcNCg0KDQpTZW50IGZyb20gQ29tY2FzdCBNb2Jp bGUNCg0KLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogY3plY2g2QG1lc2FuZXR3 b3Jrcy5uZXQNClRvOiBsMjktbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpTZW50OldlZCBPY3QgMjEgMDY6 MTU6MjIgVVRDIDIwMDkNClN1YmplY3Q6IEwyOS1MaXN0OiBSZTogDQoNCldoeT8NCg0KCS0tLS0t IE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQoJRnJvbTogZGVsZmluIDxtYWlsdG86bDI5ZGVsZmlu QHlhaG9vLmNvbT4gIA0KCVRvOiBsMjktbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0KCVNlbnQ6IFdlZG5l c2RheSwgT2N0b2JlciAyMSwgMjAwOSAxMDo1OSBBTQ0KDQoJDQoJDQoJSSBhbSBsb29raW5nIGZv ciBzb21lIGRvY3VtZW50YXRpb24gcmVnYXJkaW5nIHRoZSBiYWxhbmNpbmcgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlv bnMgZm9yIHJ1ZGRlciBhbmQgZWxldmF0b3IgKGNvbnRyb2wgc3VyZmFjZXMpIGZvciB0aGUgTC0y OS4gSSBoYXZlIGxvb2tlZCB0aHJvdWdoIHRoZSBtYW51YWxzIGFuZCBJIGRvbnQgc2VlIGFueXRo aW5nIHNwZWNpZmljLiAgSSBhbSB0cnlpbmcgdG8gZGV0ZXJtaW5lIHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIHJ1ZGRl ciBiYWxhbmNlcyBhdCB0aGUgaG9yaXpvbmFsIHBsYW5lLCBvciBhYm92ZSBvciBiZWxvdyBhbmQg aWYgc28sIGhvdyBtYW55IGRlZ3JlZXMuICAgIEkgYXBwcmVjaWF0ZSBhbnkgYXNzaXN0YW5jZS4g IHRoYW5rcwkNCg0KCQ0KCQ0KCWhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0 b3I/TDI5LUxpc3QiPmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/TDI5LUxpc3QN CglocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20iPmh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9u aWNzLmNvbQ0KCWhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24iPmh0 dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jDQoJDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAg ICAgICAgLSBUaGUgTDI5LUxpc3QgRW1haWwgRm9ydW0gLQ0KXy09IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNz IExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQ0KXy09IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRp bGl0aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgTGlzdCBVbi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sDQpfLT0gQXJjaGl2ZSBTZWFyY2gg JiBEb3dubG9hZCwgNy1EYXkgQnJvd3NlLCBDaGF0LCBGQVEsDQpfLT0gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5k IG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOg0KXy09DQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29t L05hdmlnYXRvcj9MMjktTGlzdA0KXy09DQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNQVRS T05JQ1MgV0VCIEZPUlVNUyAtDQpfLT0gU2FtZSBncmVhdCBjb250ZW50IGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxl IHZpYSB0aGUgV2ViIEZvcnVtcyENCl8tPQ0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9u aWNzLmNvbQ0KXy09DQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRpb24g V2ViIFNpdGUgLQ0KXy09ICBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgZ2VuZXJvdXMgc3VwcG9ydCENCl8t PSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4N Cl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uDQpfLT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0K DQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:58 AM PST US From: "Bill Geipel" Subject: Re: L29-List: Re: Re: L29-List: Re:Eaxctly. I know of no one that has rebalanced. At the supersonic speeds that the L-29 flies at, it doesn't seem to be an issue. Actually most of the reskinned rudders were just reinstalled and life is good. My is reskinned and I cruise at 325 kts. (I love my Viper!) No problems. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Culberson To: l29-list@matronics.com ; Czech6@mesanetworks.net Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 6:59 AM Subject: Re: L29-List: Re: When I painted mine, we removed the surfaces, (but not flaps) and checked balance before and afterward. As the surfaces were heavier than the typical re-balancing as seen on your typical light civilian aircraft, changes in balance were effectively undetectable which is what I think Bill is saying. If you reskin the rudder, well I guess that is a different animal. The use of a different skin material would make me nervous. Aero had a reason for why they built the aircraft the way they did. Just my thoughts... Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com To: l29-list ; Bill Sent: Thu Oct 22 00:48:43 2009 Subject: Re: L29-List: Re: Ummm..... Because a lot of L-29s have been repainted, re-engined or have weight and balance changes. Also some control surfaces have been reskinned from magnesium to aluminum. These all can affect safety and require proper guidance Just my opinion Cheers Paul L-29.org Sent from Comcast Mobile ----- Original Message ----- From: czech6@mesanetworks.net To: l29-list@matronics.com Sent:Wed Oct 21 06:15:22 UTC 2009 Subject: L29-List: Re: Why? ----- Original Message ----- From: delfin To: l29-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 10:59 AM I am looking for some documentation regarding the balancing specifications for rudder and elevator (control surfaces) for the L-29. I have looked through the manuals and I dont see anything specific. I am trying to determine whether the rudder balances at the horizonal plane, or above or below and if so, how many degrees. I appreciate any assistance. thanks href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?L29-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?L29-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD,=03g=EF=BD=EF=BD ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:59 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: L29-List: Re: I've seen rudders though that have weights in the access hole on the underside of the rudder while mine has none. How would you determine if they were missing vs not needed? Would be nice to at least know the spec to check balance.

Sent from Comcast Mobile ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: Re: L29-List: Re: From: "Bill Culberson" VGhhdCB3YXMgbXkgcHJvYmxlbS4gQWx0aG91Z2ggdGhlIG1hbnVhbHMgd2VyZSBhbGwgcHJldHR5 IGdvb2QsIEkgd2FzIG5ldmVyIGFibGUgdG8gZmluZCBhIGRvY3VtZW50IG91dGxpbmluZyBiYWxh bmNlL3JlYmFsYW5jaW5nIG9mIHRoZSBmbHlpbmcgc3VyZmFjZXMuIEkgYWxzbyB3b3VsZCBsb3Zl IHRvIHNlZSBzb21lIHR5cGUgb2Ygc3BlYy4NCg0KLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0t LQ0KRnJvbTogb3duZXItbDI5LWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gPG93bmVyLWwyOS1s aXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KVG86IGwyOS1saXN0IDxsMjktbGlzdEBtYXRyb25p Y3MuY29tPjsgQmlsbCA8Y3plY2g2QG1lc2FuZXR3b3Jrcy5uZXQ+DQpTZW50OiBUaHUgT2N0IDIy IDA5OjAxOjUwIDIwMDkNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBSZTogTDI5LUxpc3Q6IFJlOg0KDQpJJ3ZlIHNl ZW4gcnVkZGVycyB0aG91Z2ggdGhhdCBoYXZlIHdlaWdodHMgaW4gdGhlIGFjY2VzcyBob2xlIG9u IHRoZSB1bmRlcnNpZGUgb2YgdGhlIHJ1ZGRlciB3aGlsZSBtaW5lIGhhcyBub25lLiBIb3cgd291 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_____________________________________ Time: 07:12:34 PM PST US From: Jean de ROUBIN Subject: L29-List: L-29 Hi, Bill Do you have any problems with viper and aerobatic ? Is the L-29 still +8 -4 with viper ? Eaxctly. I know of no one that has rebalanced. At the supersonic speeds that the L-29 flies at, it doesn't seem to be an issue. Actually most of the reskinned rudders were just reinstalled and life is good. My is reskinned and I cruise at 325 kts. (I love my Viper!) No problems. Jean de Roubin B. P. 8455 98 703 - FAA'A Polyn=E9sie Fran=E7aise Tel : (+689)742620 Mail : delfin@mail.pf ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:18 PM PST US From: "Bill Geipel" Subject: Re: L29-List: L-29 No problems. Still the same "G" rating. However, due to the age of the jets, most of us here have lowered them to 6/3. With the viper I can do loops without diving to acclerate. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean de ROUBIN To: Bill Geipel Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:12 PM Subject: L29-List: L-29 Hi, Bill Do you have any problems with viper and aerobatic ? Is the L-29 still +8 -4 with viper ? Eaxctly. I know of no one that has rebalanced. At the supersonic speeds that the L-29 flies at, it doesn't seem to be an issue. Actually most of the reskinned rudders were just reinstalled and life is good. My is reskinned and I cruise at 325 kts. (I love my Viper!) No problems. Jean de Roubin B. P. 8455 98 703 - FAA'A Polyn=E9sie Fran=E7aise Tel : (+689)742620 Mail : delfin@mail.pf ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:27:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: L29-List: L-29 From: "Bill Culberson" VmVyeSBqZWFsb3VzIGhlcmUsIEkgcmVhbGx5IHdhbnQgYSB2aXBlci4gQW55b25lIGhhdmUgZW5n aW5lcyBvdXQuIFRoZXJlLi4uLi4/DQoNCi0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0NCkZy b206IG93bmVyLWwyOS1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIDxvd25lci1sMjktbGlzdC1z ZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClRvOiBsMjktbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIDxsMjktbGlz dEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU2VudDogVGh1IE9jdCAyMiAyMzowNDo1MCAyMDA5DQpTdWJqZWN0 OiBSZTogTDI5LUxpc3Q6IEwtMjkNCg0KTm8gcHJvYmxlbXMuIFN0aWxsIHRoZSBzYW1lICJHIiBy YXRpbmcuIEhvd2V2ZXIsIGR1ZSB0byB0aGUgYWdlIG9mIHRoZSBqZXRzLCBtb3N0IG9mIHVzIGhl cmUgaGF2ZSBsb3dlcmVkIHRoZW0gdG8gNi8zLiBXaXRoIHRoZSB2aXBlciBJIGNhbiBkbyBsb29w cyB3aXRob3V0IGRpdmluZyB0byBhY2NsZXJhdGUuIA0KIA0KQmlsbA0KDQoJLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2lu 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