Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: (Jon Boede)
2. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: (SD737@aol.com)
3. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: (Royal Tony)
4. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: (delfin)
5. 09:26 AM - 8130-2G (Royal Tony)
6. 10:03 AM - Re: 8130-2G (colyergreg@aol.com)
7. 04:41 PM - Re: 8130-2G (David)
8. 04:42 PM - Re: 8130-2G (David)
9. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: (SD737@aol.com)
10. 06:30 PM - Re: Re: (SD737@aol.com)
11. 06:44 PM - Re: Re: (Paul)
12. 07:41 PM - Re: 8130-2G (Jon Boede)
13. 07:56 PM - Re: 8130-2G (delfin)
14. 08:08 PM - Re: 8130-2G (Paul)
15. 08:36 PM - Re: Re: (David)
16. 09:35 PM - Re: Re: (SD737@aol.com)
17. 09:41 PM - Re: 8130-2G (franknlynn)
Message 1
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My understanding is that the CJAA and the EAA have asked for more time to s
tudy the logic behind these changes and their impact. 8130.2G is supposed
to be released April 16th but the ex/ex portion of it may be delayed ... no
t that I have much faith in that.
I haven't heard much about it either. Very curious.
> Date: Wed=2C 23 Mar 2011 00:38:18 -0500
> From: ainut@knology.net
> To: l29-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: L29-List: Re:
>
>
> Just say "No."
>
> David
>
>
> delfin wrote:
> > I am surprised that I have not heard any comments regarding the FAA
> > change in the Operating Limitations for all jet aircraft.
> > Starting April 16=2C all aircraft obtaining initial certification will
> > be under the new rules=2C which are more restrictive that before.
> > Expecially the area regarding flights over populated areas. I would
> > welcome some comments regarding this. -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
> --
> If you're an American=2C just say NO to the Obamanation=2C to socialism
=2C and get rid of Soros.
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 2
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HOPE & CHANGE! Bigger Government & more regulation for all!
Wait until the FAA implements time limit cycles on parts such as landing
gear, etc.... Like the L-39!
In a message dated 3/22/2011 10:50:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
ainut@knology.net writes:
--> L29-List message posted by: David <ainut@knology.net>
Just say "No."
David
delfin wrote:
> I am surprised that I have not heard any comments regarding the FAA
> change in the Operating Limitations for all jet aircraft.
> Starting April 16, all aircraft obtaining initial certification will
> be under the new rules, which are more restrictive that before.
> Expecially the area regarding flights over populated areas. I would
> welcome some comments regarding this. -
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and
get rid of Soros.
Message 3
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The new 8130-2G addresses the life limited parts issue and allows an experi
mental exhibition aircraft to fly without having life limited parts complie
d with. More restrictions over congested area and no passengers. I was told
by my FSDO that until Washington proves that there are life limited parts
on an L-29, I was free to fly but that the new 8130 addressed this and was
a mute point now.
________________________________
From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-l29-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of SD737@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: L29-List: Re:
HOPE & CHANGE! Bigger Government & more regulation for all!
Wait until the FAA implements time limit cycles on parts such as landing ge
ar, etc.... Like the L-39!
In a message dated 3/22/2011 10:50:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ainut@kno
logy.net writes:
Just say "No."
David
delfin wrote:
> I am surprised that I have not heard any comments regarding the FAA
> change in the Operating Limitations for all jet aircraft.
> Starting April 16, all aircraft obtaining initial certification will
> be under the new rules, which are more restrictive that before.
> Expecially the area regarding flights over populated areas. I would
> welcome some comments regarding this. -
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and ge
t rid of ======================
== e ties Day ===================
==== - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ========
=============== - List Contributio
n Web Site sp; ============
=============
Message 4
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I find the new- rules for operating limitations very problematic and-
=0Atroubling.-- I was told by my FSDO that the change does take place A
pril 16. =0A=0A-=0AI am trying to get an L-29 certified prior to the chan
ge. I was blindsided by =0Athis and have heard nothing about it until this
week.- The provisions=0Aregarding time limited,- ejection seats and the
NO flight over populated areas =0Ais just plain bad.- Unless you fly in
the desert or over the ocean, that wont be =0Aeasy to keep from technically
breaking. These are not practical rules and leaves =0Aa door open for the
FAA to pull your ticket at almost any time.-- Granted the =0AOperating
Limitations staying with the aircraft when you relocate or sell is a =0Agoo
d change. But that appears to be a small trade off for some other very =0Ac
ontrolling- clauses.--- Where have our EAA, Classic Jet and- Red
Star guys =0Abeen?- Maybe they did everything possible. But this is a big
step in the wrong =0Adirection.-- The- populated area clause is belo
w-word for word from the order- =0ARemember the old language said that we
would try to avoid populated areas as =0Apractical-- . This states MAY
NOT=0A-=0A.----------- During Phase II operations,
this aircraft may not be operated over =0Adensely populated or congested a
reas. The pilot in command must operate at =0Aaltitudes and over routes tha
t ensure compliance with 14 CFR =A7 91.119(a) at all =0Atimes and avoid den
sely populated and congested areas.=0A=0A=0A
Message 5
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The new 8130-2G addresses the life limited parts issue and allows an experi
mental exhibition aircraft to fly without having life limited parts complie
d with. More restrictions over congested area and no passengers. I was told
by my FSDO that until Washington proves that there are life limited parts
on an L-29, I was free to fly but that the new 8130 addressed this and was
a mute point now.
I just purchased and currently flying the L-29 so I am a newbie. I do know
that if the FAA implements any or all of the life limited parts on a list I
have seen, some L-29's may become large paper weights. The choice may be f
lying with restrictions or a large lawn ornament?
Anthony (Tony) Royal
Message 6
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All of our ex-military jets will be paper weights or on sticks on our front l
awns.
Greg
415-531-0970
www.AceMakerAirshows.com
On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Royal Tony <anthony.royal@volvo.com> wrote:
> The new 8130-2G addresses the life limited parts issue and allows an exper
imental exhibition aircraft to fly without having life limited parts complie
d with. More restrictions over congested area and no passengers. I was told b
y my FSDO that until Washington proves that there are life limited parts on a
n L-29, I was free to fly but that the new 8130 addressed this and was a mut
e point now.
>
> I just purchased and currently flying the L-29 so I am a newbie. I do know
that if the FAA implements any or all of the life limited parts on a list I
have seen, some L-29's may become large paper weights. The choice may be fl
ying with restrictions or a large lawn ornament?
>
> Anthony (Tony) Royal
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 7
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This cannot be. Must we file a lawsuit? Every owner would have to put
in cash to pay the frickin' lawyers and I'll even contribute some, too,
even though I don't have a -29 yet.
David
colyergreg@aol.com wrote:
> All of our ex-military jets will be paper weights or on sticks on our
> front lawns.
>
>
> Greg
> 415-531-0970
> www.AceMakerAirshows.com <http://www.AceMakerAirshows.com>
>
> On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Royal Tony <anthony.royal@volvo.com
> <mailto:anthony.royal@volvo.com>> wrote:
>
>> The new 8130-2G addresses the life limited parts issue and allows an
>> experimental exhibition aircraft to fly without having life limited
>> parts complied with. More restrictions over congested area and no
>> passengers. I was told by my FSDO that until Washington proves that
>> there are life limited parts on an L-29, I was free to fly but that
>> the new 8130 addressed this and was a mute point now.
>> I just purchased and currently flying the L-29 so I am a newbie. I do
>> know that if the FAA implements any or all of the life limited parts
>> on a list I have seen, some L-29's may become large paper weights.
>> The choice may be flying with restrictions or a large lawn ornament?
>>
>> */Anthony (Tony) Royal/*
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
Message 8
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Anyone friends with a Congresscritter that is over the FAA knuckleheads?
David
colyergreg@aol.com wrote:
> All of our ex-military jets will be paper weights or on sticks on our
> front lawns.
>
>
> Greg
> 415-531-0970
> www.AceMakerAirshows.com <http://www.AceMakerAirshows.com>
>
> On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Royal Tony <anthony.royal@volvo.com
> <mailto:anthony.royal@volvo.com>> wrote:
>
>> The new 8130-2G addresses the life limited parts issue and allows an
>> experimental exhibition aircraft to fly without having life limited
>> parts complied with. More restrictions over congested area and no
>> passengers. I was told by my FSDO that until Washington proves that
>> there are life limited parts on an L-29, I was free to fly but that
>> the new 8130 addressed this and was a mute point now.
>> I just purchased and currently flying the L-29 so I am a newbie. I do
>> know that if the FAA implements any or all of the life limited parts
>> on a list I have seen, some L-29's may become large paper weights.
>> The choice may be flying with restrictions or a large lawn ornament?
>>
>> */Anthony (Tony) Royal/*
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
Message 9
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Like I said, Hope & Change... Welcome to bigger government. This has
been coming down the pipes for awhile. We got wind of it on the West Coast
last year.
Come on out to Reno Stead Airport KRTS. You can head off out into the
desert and fly as fast and as low as you desire.
The new FAA regs won't be an issue out here, but for you city types....
you're screwed!
How are you going to avoid flight over populated areas?
Although, it probably doesn't really matter anyway....
Who can afford to burn 180 gallons an hour anyway with fuel back on the
rise? $6, $7, $8 per gallon...
FAA restrictions
Insurance
Fuel
Condition Inspections
Our wonderful economy..
Greg has it right.... Put 'em on poles in your yard!
Glad I have my Yak to go jerk around in burning 15 gallons an hour and no
such restrictions. I removed my 300NM limitation.
Message 10
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Like I said, Hope & Change... Welcome to bigger government. This has
been coming down the pipes for awhile. We got wind of it on the West Coast
last year.
Come on out to Reno Stead Airport KRTS. You can head off out into the
desert and fly as fast and as low as you desire.
The new FAA regs won't be an issue out here, but for you city types....
you're screwed!
How are you going to avoid flight over populated areas?
Although, it probably doesn't really matter anyway....
Who can afford to burn 180 gallons an hour anyway with fuel back on the
rise? $6, $7, $8 per gallon...
FAA restrictions
Insurance
Fuel
Condition Inspections
Our wonderful economy..
Greg has it right.... Put 'em on poles in your yard!
Glad I have my Yak to go jerk around in burning 15 gallons an hour and no
such restrictions. I removed my 300NM limitation.
Message 11
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I highly disagree with this attitude.
Regardless of the expense to operate the aircraft, this is yet another
personal freedom that is being curtailed, and to the greatest extent
possible we should lobby as an interest group to retain these freedoms.
Does anyone know if EAA Warbirds is working this issue?
Cheers
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: SD737@aol.com
To: l29-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: L29-List: Re:
Like I said, Hope & Change... Welcome to bigger government. This
has been coming down the pipes for awhile. We got wind of it on the
West Coast last year.
Come on out to Reno Stead Airport KRTS. You can head off out into the
desert and fly as fast and as low as you desire.
The new FAA regs won't be an issue out here, but for you city
types.... you're screwed!
How are you going to avoid flight over populated areas?
Although, it probably doesn't really matter anyway....
Who can afford to burn 180 gallons an hour anyway with fuel back on
the rise? $6, $7, $8 per gallon...
FAA restrictions
Insurance
Fuel
Condition Inspections
Our wonderful economy..
Greg has it right.... Put 'em on poles in your yard!
Glad I have my Yak to go jerk around in burning 15 gallons an hour and
no such restrictions. I removed my 300NM limitation.
Message 12
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|
I called EAA Warbirds today and talked with a nice gentleman who said that
they and CJAA are having a meeting next month to iron some of the nonsense
out.
He said that once that meeting takes place the FAA will issue deviation let
ters for anybody who's caught between April 15th and when 8130.2G Change 1
is published (whenever that is=2C in the distant future).
EAA's and CJAA's position on the changes is exactly what you'd want them to
be... very reasonable and questioning *all* the nonsense in 2G ex/ex opera
ting limitations section=3B they have a long list.
Of course the take-away is Thank Goodness for these guys... if you don't be
long to EAA Warbirds=2C you should. If you don't belong to CJAA=2C you sho
uld. If you don't belong to RPA=2C you should. Don't just sit and be than
kful that it's the Hot Ejection Seat guys and not You that's getting slippe
d the wiener this time -- the "life limited parts" stuff in 2G is the FAA c
amel's nose under our collective skirt. =3B-) As usual=2C it's pretty obv
ious that Yon Administrator thinks the safest warbird is one that's grounde
d... you can see which way the FAA would head in a big hurry if EAA=2C CJAA
and RPA weren't raising holy heck about it. Oh=2C and apparently the Army
Aviation Foundation has their war paint on as well... good guys.
More news as it develops.
Jon
> Date: Wed=2C 23 Mar 2011 18:30:16 -0500
> From: ainut@knology.net
> To: l29-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: L29-List: 8130-2G
>
>
> Anyone friends with a Congresscritter that is over the FAA knuckleheads?
>
> David
>
>
> colyergreg@aol.com wrote:
> > All of our ex-military jets will be paper weights or on sticks on our
> > front lawns.
> >
> >
> > Greg
> > 415-531-0970
> > www.AceMakerAirshows.com <http://www.AceMakerAirshows.com>
> >
> > On Mar 23=2C 2011=2C at 9:18 AM=2C Royal Tony <anthony.royal@volvo.com
> > <mailto:anthony.royal@volvo.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> The new 8130-2G addresses the life limited parts issue and allows an
> >> experimental exhibition aircraft to fly without having life limited
> >> parts complied with. More restrictions over congested area and no
> >> passengers. I was told by my FSDO that until Washington proves that
> >> there are life limited parts on an L-29=2C I was free to fly but that
> >> the new 8130 addressed this and was a mute point now.
> >> I just purchased and currently flying the L-29 so I am a newbie. I do
> >> know that if the FAA implements any or all of the life limited parts
> >> on a list I have seen=2C some L-29's may become large paper weights.
> >> The choice may be flying with restrictions or a large lawn ornament?
> >>
> >> */Anthony (Tony) Royal/*
> >>
> >> *
> >>
> >>
> >> *
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
> --
> If you're an American=2C just say NO to the Obamanation=2C to socialism
=2C and get rid of Soros.
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 13
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Jon, thanks for your input. This is a serious issue and we need to stay inv
olved =0Aas a group. And, yes, belowing to EAA, Classic Jets and RPA will h
elp. I am sure =0Athey are-all trying. This is a large breach of flying f
reedom and everyone =0Ashould be alert to it and involved.- Whether you a
re group 7 or 5 does not =0Amatter. They are after-ALL groups, even the Y
AK boys. Its only a matter of time =0Aand we need to fight each and every m
ove .- thanks for the input-=0A=0A=0A
Message 14
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Excellent. Thanks Jon.
- Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Boede
To: l29-list@matronics.com ; l39-list@matronics.com ;
yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:35 PM
Subject: RE: L29-List: 8130-2G
I called EAA Warbirds today and talked with a nice gentleman who said
that they and CJAA are having a meeting next month to iron some of the
nonsense out.
He said that once that meeting takes place the FAA will issue
deviation letters for anybody who's caught between April 15th and when
8130.2G Change 1 is published (whenever that is, in the distant future).
EAA's and CJAA's position on the changes is exactly what you'd want
them to be... very reasonable and questioning *all* the nonsense in 2G
ex/ex operating limitations section; they have a long list.
Of course the take-away is Thank Goodness for these guys... if you
don't belong to EAA Warbirds, you should. If you don't belong to CJAA,
you should. If you don't belong to RPA, you should. Don't just sit and
be thankful that it's the Hot Ejection Seat guys and not You that's
getting slipped the wiener this time -- the "life limited parts" stuff
in 2G is the FAA camel's nose under our collective skirt. ;-) As
usual, it's pretty obvious that Yon Administrator thinks the safest
warbird is one that's grounded... you can see which way the FAA would
head in a big hurry if EAA, CJAA and RPA weren't raising holy heck about
it. Oh, and apparently the Army Aviation Foundation has their war paint
on as well... good guys.
More news as it develops.
Jon
> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 18:30:16 -0500
> From: ainut@knology.net
> To: l29-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: L29-List: 8130-2G
>
>
> Anyone friends with a Congresscritter that is over the FAA
knuckleheads?
>
> David
>
>
> colyergreg@aol.com wrote:
> > All of our ex-military jets will be paper weights or on sticks on
our
> > front lawns.
> >
> >
> > Greg
> > 415-531-0970
> > www.AceMakerAirshows.com <http://www.AceMakerAirshows.com>
> >
> > On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Royal Tony <anthony.royal@volvo.com
> > <mailto:anthony.royal@volvo.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> The new 8130-2G addresses the life limited parts issue and allows
an
> >> experimental exhibition aircraft to fly without having life
limited
> >> parts complied with. More restrictions over congested area and no
> >> passengers. I was told by my FSDO that until Washington proves
that
> >> there are life limited parts on an L-29, I was free to fly but
that
> >> the new 8130 addressed this and was a mute point now.
> >> I just purchased and currently flying the L-29 so I am a newbie.
I do
> >> know that if the FAA implements any or all of the life limited
parts
> >> on a list I have seen, some L-29's may become large paper
weights.
> >> The choice may be flying with restrictions or a large lawn
ornament?
> >>
> >> */Anthony (Tony) Royal/*
> >>
> >> *
> >>
> >>
> >> *
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
> --
> If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism,
and get rid of Soros.
>
> >======
>
>
>
Message 15
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a lot of truth to that. But we have to put our foot down somewhere.
Might as well be now.
David
SD737@aol.com wrote:
> Like I said, Hope & Change... Welcome to bigger government. This
> has been coming down the pipes for awhile. We got wind of it on the
> West Coast last year.
> Come on out to Reno Stead Airport KRTS. You can head off out into the
> desert and fly as fast and as low as you desire.
> The new FAA regs won't be an issue out here, but for you city
> types.... you're screwed!
> How are you going to avoid flight over populated areas?
> Although, it probably doesn't really matter anyway....
> Who can afford to burn 180 gallons an hour anyway with fuel back on
> the rise? $6, $7, $8 per gallon...
> FAA restrictions
> Insurance
> Fuel
> Condition Inspections
> Our wonderful economy..
> Greg has it right.... Put 'em on poles in your yard!
> Glad I have my Yak to go jerk around in burning 15 gallons an hour and
> no such restrictions. I removed my 300NM limitation.
> *
>
>
> *
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
Message 16
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The FAA's gonna do what the FAA's gonna do regardless.
EAA and the other groups are excellent groups and effective to a point, but
there's an in house push on the FAA's part to mandate and limit these
jets. Much of it coming from SoCal.
We shall see... EAA or FAA... whose your Huckleberry!
In a message dated 3/23/2011 8:36:43 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
ainut@knology.net writes:
--> L29-List message posted by: David <ainut@knology.net>
a lot of truth to that. But we have to put our foot down somewhere.
Might as well be now.
David
SD737@aol.com wrote:
> Like I said, Hope & Change... Welcome to bigger government. This
> has been coming down the pipes for awhile. We got wind of it on the
> West Coast last year.
> Come on out to Reno Stead Airport KRTS. You can head off out into the
> desert and fly as fast and as low as you desire.
> The new FAA regs won't be an issue out here, but for you city
> types.... you're screwed!
> How are you going to avoid flight over populated areas?
> Although, it probably doesn't really matter anyway....
> Who can afford to burn 180 gallons an hour anyway with fuel back on
> the rise? $6, $7, $8 per gallon...
> FAA restrictions
> Insurance
> Fuel
> Condition Inspections
> Our wonderful economy..
> Greg has it right.... Put 'em on poles in your yard!
> Glad I have my Yak to go jerk around in burning 15 gallons an hour and
> no such restrictions. I removed my 300NM limitation.
> *
>
>
> *
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and
get rid of Soros.
Message 17
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I'll buy one of your paper weights if they are going cheap!
Frank
Oz
All of our ex-military jets will be paper weights or on sticks on our
front lawns.
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