Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:53 AM - Re: Nitrogen Loss (Jorgen Nielsen)
2. 10:19 AM - Re: Nitrogen Loss (Bill Culberson)
3. 12:07 PM - Re: Nitrogen Loss (Frank Deeth)
4. 12:51 PM - Re: Nitrogen Loss (Jorgen Nielsen)
5. 12:59 PM - Re: Nitrogen Loss (Frank Deeth)
6. 07:37 PM - Re: Nitrogen Loss (Jean de Roubin)
7. 07:53 PM - Re: Nitrogen Loss (migfighter42)
8. 11:26 PM - Re: Nitrogen Loss (Bill Geipel)
9. 11:27 PM - Re: Nitrogen Loss (Bill Geipel)
Message 1
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I also tried an ultrasonic leak detector, got a very expensive version
on trial for a week from a specialty supplier. Could not find anything
using it either. Soapy water is messy but seems to work best.
My air system is modified, with a hand valve installed close to the
bottles. When I am done flying, I shut it off. Also nice if using the
L29 to go somewhere, turn it off after landing, turn it back on before
flight, no losses.
From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Royal
Sent: Friday, 25 March 2016 02:17
Subject: Re: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
Hey guys,
Thanks for all your suggestions! John, I did the soapy water test on
every fitting I could find all the way back to the fittings for the
emergency bottle and beyond. ...tightened too. No Joy.
Bill, I think I did the top nut but missed the lower nut. I'll look at
that next . Yeah, I'm 60 and a little too big to get into that small of
quarters.
Hey Frank, thanks for the info too!
I'm also looking at disconnecting the the main pressurizing line line at
the pressure reduction valve for the down stream items, after the
nitrogen bottles, and capping off the line and then pressurizing the
bottles. This should tell me if there is a leak anywhere upstream of the
reduction valve in the main charging system. The emergency bottle holds
pressure perfectly so no problems there.
According to the service manual, the minimum loss is 5 atm over 2 hours.
So, I'm right on that limit at 2.5 atm per hour.
Thanks!
Tony
On Thursday, March 24, 2016 7:15 PM, John Cabrera <jetblast1@me.com>
wrote:
I don=9Dt know if this is going to be of any help and some may
laugh at me but i was chasing at leak in the rear canopy. Bought a
fancy ultrasonic leak detector and could not find any leak. Finally
decided to check with old fashion soapy water and a spray bottle. That
worked.
John
On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Anthony Royal <skyking76t@verizon.net>
wrote:
Guys, my L-29 has always held nitrogen for days without much loss of
pressure. Other day I pressurized to 140 atm because of a long flight
and day. Pressure bled off immediately from 140 to about 90 atm before I
could get out of the hangar. And was totally empty the next day. I
found several loose, original safety wired, connections not tight.
Packing nut on the nitrogen purge valve was loose too. Tightened every
fitting and thing I could find from nose to rear cockpit.
Now, if I pressurize to 50 atm, I will lose 30 atm in 12 hours. If I
pressurize to 100 atm I lose 30 atm in 12 hours. Very consistent now.
That's about 2.5 atm per hour. Any suggestions what else might cause
such a consistent leak? Thinking maybe the pressure relief valve
leaking? Check valve? Reading manuals and reviewing diagrams but
thought maybe someone else may have run into this same problem and save
a lot of time
Someone, in a post I can't find, suggested an ultrasonic tester of some
sort to detect high pressure leaks. Does anyone know which one it was?
Also, looking for the glass lens for the taxi light. Rock must have hit
mineand cracked it in half. Glued it back but would like to replacement.
Also looking for connector to ARC EA-401A encoding altimeter.
Thanks for any info
Anthony
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Nitrogen Loss |
I read once about an L-29 being operated in the UK where they disconnected t
he oxy system and plumbed those bottles into the pneumatic system, almost do
ubles the capacity if I recall...? Has anyone else looked at doing that?
Frank
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 26, 2016, at 4:20 AM, Bill Culberson <bculberson@staraviation.com> w
rote:
>
> Ultrasonic leak detector only works on the high pressure leaks (75-100 BAR
), as it detects the specific audio signature of high pressure gas escaping.
Canopy seals and brakes are at lower pressures and the soap and water test s
eems best.
>
> I don=99t use a Schrader valve but rather the original quarter turn v
alve but recently converted the N2 Cover to having a Schrader adapter
=9Cjust in case=9D. My plane doesn=99t leak much but discovered t
hat with the cover changed and a good gasket the N2 cover that the N2 remain
s for weeks instead of days. Main check valve must be leaking.
>
> I like the Hand valve at the tanks, what did you use? Pics?
>
> Bill
> N39DE
>
> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-l29-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
> Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 2:52 AM
> To: l29-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
>
> I also tried an ultrasonic leak detector, got a very expensive version on t
rial for a week from a specialty supplier. Could not find anything using it
either. Soapy water is messy but seems to work best.
>
> My air system is modified, with a hand valve installed close to the bottle
s. When I am done flying, I shut it off. Also nice if using the L29 to go s
omewhere, turn it off after landing, turn it back on before flight, no losse
s.
>
> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-l29-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Royal
> Sent: Friday, 25 March 2016 02:17
> To: l29-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
>
> Hey guys,
> Thanks for all your suggestions! John, I did the soapy water test on ever
y fitting I could find all the way back to the fittings for the emergency bo
ttle and beyond. ...tightened too. No Joy.
>
> Bill, I think I did the top nut but missed the lower nut. I'll look at tha
t next . Yeah, I'm 60 and a little too big to get into that small of quarter
s.
>
> Hey Frank, thanks for the info too!
>
> I'm also looking at disconnecting the the main pressurizing line line at t
he pressure reduction valve for the down stream items, after the nitrogen bo
ttles, and capping off the line and then pressurizing the bottles. This shou
ld tell me if there is a leak anywhere upstream of the reduction valve in th
e main charging system. The emergency bottle holds pressure perfectly so no p
roblems there.
>
> According to the service manual, the minimum loss is 5 atm over 2 hours. S
o, I'm right on that limit at 2.5 atm per hour.
>
> Thanks!
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 7:15 PM, John Cabrera <jetblast1@me.com> wrote
:
>
>
> I don=9Dt know if this is going to be of any help and some may laugh
at me but i was chasing at leak in the rear canopy. Bought a fancy ultraso
nic leak detector and could not find any leak. Finally decided to check wit
h old fashion soapy water and a spray bottle. That worked.
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Anthony Royal <skyking76t@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Guys, my L-29 has always held nitrogen for days without much loss of pres
sure. Other day I pressurized to 140 atm because of a long flight and day. P
ressure bled off immediately from 140 to about 90 atm before I could get out
of the hangar. And was totally empty the next day. I found several loose, o
riginal safety wired, connections not tight. Packing nut on the nitrogen pur
ge valve was loose too. Tightened every fitting and thing I could find from n
ose to rear cockpit.
>
> Now, if I pressurize to 50 atm, I will lose 30 atm in 12 hours. If I press
urize to 100 atm I lose 30 atm in 12 hours. Very consistent now. That's abo
ut 2.5 atm per hour. Any suggestions what else might cause such a consisten
t leak? Thinking maybe the pressure relief valve leaking? Check valve? Read
ing manuals and reviewing diagrams but thought maybe someone else may have r
un into this same problem and save a lot of time
>
> Someone, in a post I can't find, suggested an ultrasonic tester of some so
rt to detect high pressure leaks. Does anyone know which one it was?
>
> Also, looking for the glass lens for the taxi light. Rock must have hit mi
neand cracked it in half. Glued it back but would like to replacement. Also
looking for connector to ARC EA-401A encoding altimeter.
>
> Thanks for any info
>
> Anthony
>
>
Message 4
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Mine is also done like that. I only posted half the story earlier,
herewith then the full story J
I don=99t use oxygen, so repurposed the tanks.
My oxygen tanks have a tap on them, close to the bottles, and a pressure
gauge. The tap & gauge is situated in the nose compartment.
My normal air bottle (N2) also have a tap on them, and a gauge, also in
the nose compartment.
So far, 2 separate systems.
After the taps, they are interconnected via a T, output goes to the air
system.
Benefits:
Closing the valves means no leaks when she is standing.
Having the 2 systems that close means I can go away for a weekend with
no ground support, or for example a 3 hop ferry I did a while back. At
the destination, close the active system. For the next flight, pick a
system and open valve. When the system is empty use the next one.
To fill, if its just a normal flight from home base, I open the valve
for whichever system is in use, and fill normally. For extended
flights, one can fill one system at a time, or open both and fill both,
then close one.
So far, completely trouble free for a number of years.
I will have to take some pics when at the airport. I used spare hand
operated valves, similar to the pressure release inside the cockpit. I
never did the work myself, I have a Russian guy who does all my
maintenance, I just dreamt it up and asked him to do it.
Another mod we did: my front / rear braking system has been reversed.
I was once taxying with pax, and asked them to hold the brake while I
did something. On release, when I took over, suddenly I had no brakes,
and no steering obviously. We almost went farming. In normal ops, the
rear brake is for the instructor, and held a certain way can disable the
front cabin system. Not good for how we operate them privately.
Regards to all
Jorgen
From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Deeth
Sent: Friday, 25 March 2016 21:07
Subject: Re: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
I read once about an L-29 being operated in the UK where they
disconnected the oxy system and plumbed those bottles into the pneumatic
system, almost doubles the capacity if I recall...? Has anyone else
looked at doing that?
Frank
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 26, 2016, at 4:20 AM, Bill Culberson
<bculberson@staraviation.com> wrote:
Ultrasonic leak detector only works on the high pressure leaks (75-100
BAR), as it detects the specific audio signature of high pressure gas
escaping. Canopy seals and brakes are at lower pressures and the soap
and water test seems best.
I don=99t use a Schrader valve but rather the original quarter
turn valve but recently converted the N2 Cover to having a Schrader
adapter =9Cjust in case=9D. My plane doesn=99t leak
much but discovered that with the cover changed and a good gasket the N2
cover that the N2 remains for weeks instead of days. Main check valve
must be leaking.
I like the Hand valve at the tanks, what did you use? Pics?
Bill
N39DE
From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 2:52 AM
Subject: RE: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
I also tried an ultrasonic leak detector, got a very expensive version
on trial for a week from a specialty supplier. Could not find anything
using it either. Soapy water is messy but seems to work best.
My air system is modified, with a hand valve installed close to the
bottles. When I am done flying, I shut it off. Also nice if using the
L29 to go somewhere, turn it off after landing, turn it back on before
flight, no losses.
From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Royal
Sent: Friday, 25 March 2016 02:17
Subject: Re: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
Hey guys,
Thanks for all your suggestions! John, I did the soapy water test on
every fitting I could find all the way back to the fittings for the
emergency bottle and beyond. ...tightened too. No Joy.
Bill, I think I did the top nut but missed the lower nut. I'll look at
that next . Yeah, I'm 60 and a little too big to get into that small of
quarters.
Hey Frank, thanks for the info too!
I'm also looking at disconnecting the the main pressurizing line line at
the pressure reduction valve for the down stream items, after the
nitrogen bottles, and capping off the line and then pressurizing the
bottles. This should tell me if there is a leak anywhere upstream of the
reduction valve in the main charging system. The emergency bottle holds
pressure perfectly so no problems there.
According to the service manual, the minimum loss is 5 atm over 2 hours.
So, I'm right on that limit at 2.5 atm per hour.
Thanks!
Tony
On Thursday, March 24, 2016 7:15 PM, John Cabrera <jetblast1@me.com>
wrote:
I don=9Dt know if this is going to be of any help and some may
laugh at me but i was chasing at leak in the rear canopy. Bought a
fancy ultrasonic leak detector and could not find any leak. Finally
decided to check with old fashion soapy water and a spray bottle. That
worked.
John
On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Anthony Royal <skyking76t@verizon.net>
wrote:
Guys, my L-29 has always held nitrogen for days without much loss of
pressure. Other day I pressurized to 140 atm because of a long flight
and day. Pressure bled off immediately from 140 to about 90 atm before I
could get out of the hangar. And was totally empty the next day. I
found several loose, original safety wired, connections not tight.
Packing nut on the nitrogen purge valve was loose too. Tightened every
fitting and thing I could find from nose to rear cockpit.
Now, if I pressurize to 50 atm, I will lose 30 atm in 12 hours. If I
pressurize to 100 atm I lose 30 atm in 12 hours. Very consistent now.
That's about 2.5 atm per hour. Any suggestions what else might cause
such a consistent leak? Thinking maybe the pressure relief valve
leaking? Check valve? Reading manuals and reviewing diagrams but
thought maybe someone else may have run into this same problem and save
a lot of time
Someone, in a post I can't find, suggested an ultrasonic tester of some
sort to detect high pressure leaks. Does anyone know which one it was?
Also, looking for the glass lens for the taxi light. Rock must have hit
mineand cracked it in half. Glued it back but would like to replacement.
Also looking for connector to ARC EA-401A encoding altimeter.
Thanks for any info
Anthony
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Nitrogen Loss |
Thanks Jorgen!
Sent from my iPhone
> On 26 Mar 2016, at 6:50 AM, Jorgen Nielsen <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za> wro
te:
>
> Mine is also done like that. I only posted half the story earlier, herewi
th then the full story J
>
> I don=99t use oxygen, so repurposed the tanks.
>
> My oxygen tanks have a tap on them, close to the bottles, and a pressure g
auge. The tap & gauge is situated in the nose compartment.
> My normal air bottle (N2) also have a tap on them, and a gauge, also in th
e nose compartment.
> So far, 2 separate systems.
> After the taps, they are interconnected via a T, output goes to the air sy
stem.
>
> Benefits:
> Closing the valves means no leaks when she is standing.
> Having the 2 systems that close means I can go away for a weekend with no g
round support, or for example a 3 hop ferry I did a while back. At the dest
ination, close the active system. For the next flight, pick a system and op
en valve. When the system is empty use the next one.
>
> To fill, if its just a normal flight from home base, I open the valve for w
hichever system is in use, and fill normally. For extended flights, one can
fill one system at a time, or open both and fill both, then close one.
>
> So far, completely trouble free for a number of years.
>
> I will have to take some pics when at the airport. I used spare hand oper
ated valves, similar to the pressure release inside the cockpit. I never di
d the work myself, I have a Russian guy who does all my maintenance, I just d
reamt it up and asked him to do it.
>
> Another mod we did: my front / rear braking system has been reversed. I w
as once taxying with pax, and asked them to hold the brake while I did somet
hing. On release, when I took over, suddenly I had no brakes, and no steeri
ng obviously. We almost went farming. In normal ops, the rear brake is for
the instructor, and held a certain way can disable the front cabin system.
Not good for how we operate them privately.
>
> Regards to all
> Jorgen
>
> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-l29-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Deeth
> Sent: Friday, 25 March 2016 21:07
> To: l29-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
>
> I read once about an L-29 being operated in the UK where they disconnected
the oxy system and plumbed those bottles into the pneumatic system, almost d
oubles the capacity if I recall...? Has anyone else looked at doing that?
>
> Frank
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 26, 2016, at 4:20 AM, Bill Culberson <bculberson@staraviation.com> w
rote:
>
> Ultrasonic leak detector only works on the high pressure leaks (75-100 BAR
), as it detects the specific audio signature of high pressure gas escaping.
Canopy seals and brakes are at lower pressures and the soap and water test s
eems best.
>
> I don=99t use a Schrader valve but rather the original quarter turn v
alve but recently converted the N2 Cover to having a Schrader adapter
=9Cjust in case=9D. My plane doesn=99t leak much but discovered t
hat with the cover changed and a good gasket the N2 cover that the N2 remain
s for weeks instead of days. Main check valve must be leaking.
>
> I like the Hand valve at the tanks, what did you use? Pics?
>
> Bill
> N39DE
>
> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-l29-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
> Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 2:52 AM
> To: l29-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
>
> I also tried an ultrasonic leak detector, got a very expensive version on t
rial for a week from a specialty supplier. Could not find anything using it
either. Soapy water is messy but seems to work best.
>
> My air system is modified, with a hand valve installed close to the bottle
s. When I am done flying, I shut it off. Also nice if using the L29 to go s
omewhere, turn it off after landing, turn it back on before flight, no losse
s.
>
> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-l29-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Royal
> Sent: Friday, 25 March 2016 02:17
> To: l29-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
>
> Hey guys,
> Thanks for all your suggestions! John, I did the soapy water test on ever
y fitting I could find all the way back to the fittings for the emergency bo
ttle and beyond. ...tightened too. No Joy.
>
> Bill, I think I did the top nut but missed the lower nut. I'll look at tha
t next . Yeah, I'm 60 and a little too big to get into that small of quarter
s.
>
> Hey Frank, thanks for the info too!
>
> I'm also looking at disconnecting the the main pressurizing line line at t
he pressure reduction valve for the down stream items, after the nitrogen bo
ttles, and capping off the line and then pressurizing the bottles. This shou
ld tell me if there is a leak anywhere upstream of the reduction valve in th
e main charging system. The emergency bottle holds pressure perfectly so no p
roblems there.
>
> According to the service manual, the minimum loss is 5 atm over 2 hours. S
o, I'm right on that limit at 2.5 atm per hour.
>
> Thanks!
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 7:15 PM, John Cabrera <jetblast1@me.com> wrote
:
>
>
> I don=9Dt know if this is going to be of any help and some may laugh
at me but i was chasing at leak in the rear canopy. Bought a fancy ultraso
nic leak detector and could not find any leak. Finally decided to check wit
h old fashion soapy water and a spray bottle. That worked.
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Anthony Royal <skyking76t@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Guys, my L-29 has always held nitrogen for days without much loss of pres
sure. Other day I pressurized to 140 atm because of a long flight and day. P
ressure bled off immediately from 140 to about 90 atm before I could get out
of the hangar. And was totally empty the next day. I found several loose, o
riginal safety wired, connections not tight. Packing nut on the nitrogen pur
ge valve was loose too. Tightened every fitting and thing I could find from n
ose to rear cockpit.
>
> Now, if I pressurize to 50 atm, I will lose 30 atm in 12 hours. If I press
urize to 100 atm I lose 30 atm in 12 hours. Very consistent now. That's abo
ut 2.5 atm per hour. Any suggestions what else might cause such a consisten
t leak? Thinking maybe the pressure relief valve leaking? Check valve? Read
ing manuals and reviewing diagrams but thought maybe someone else may have r
un into this same problem and save a lot of time
>
> Someone, in a post I can't find, suggested an ultrasonic tester of some so
rt to detect high pressure leaks. Does anyone know which one it was?
>
> Also, looking for the glass lens for the taxi light. Rock must have hit mi
neand cracked it in half. Glued it back but would like to replacement. Also
looking for connector to ARC EA-401A encoding altimeter.
>
> Thanks for any info
>
> Anthony
>
>
Message 6
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|
| Subject: | Re: Nitrogen Loss |
I think the best way is an air compressor, working automatically at 20 bars a
nd stopping at 50.
My, installed by the tzechs and approved by the factory is perfectly working
since 15 years. No need of ground support.
Jean de Roubin
Envoy=C3=A9 de mon iPhone
> Le 25 mars 2016 =C3- 19:58, Frank Deeth <tr.9@westnet.com.au> a =C3=A9cr
it :
>
> Thanks Jorgen!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 26 Mar 2016, at 6:50 AM, Jorgen Nielsen <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za> wr
ote:
>>
>> Mine is also done like that. I only posted half the story earlier, herew
ith then the full story J
>>
>> I don=99t use oxygen, so repurposed the tanks.
>>
>> My oxygen tanks have a tap on them, close to the bottles, and a pressure g
auge. The tap & gauge is situated in the nose compartment.
>> My normal air bottle (N2) also have a tap on them, and a gauge, also in t
he nose compartment.
>> So far, 2 separate systems.
>> After the taps, they are interconnected via a T, output goes to the air s
ystem.
>>
>> Benefits:
>> Closing the valves means no leaks when she is standing.
>> Having the 2 systems that close means I can go away for a weekend with no
ground support, or for example a 3 hop ferry I did a while back. At the de
stination, close the active system. For the next flight, pick a system and o
pen valve. When the system is empty use the next one.
>>
>> To fill, if its just a normal flight from home base, I open the valve for
whichever system is in use, and fill normally. For extended flights, one c
an fill one system at a time, or open both and fill both, then close one.
>>
>> So far, completely trouble free for a number of years.
>>
>> I will have to take some pics when at the airport. I used spare hand ope
rated valves, similar to the pressure release inside the cockpit. I never d
id the work myself, I have a Russian guy who does all my maintenance, I just
dreamt it up and asked him to do it.
>>
>> Another mod we did: my front / rear braking system has been reversed. I
was once taxying with pax, and asked them to hold the brake while I did som
ething. On release, when I took over, suddenly I had no brakes, and no stee
ring obviously. We almost went farming. In normal ops, the rear brake is f
or the instructor, and held a certain way can disable the front cabin system
. Not good for how we operate them privately.
>>
>> Regards to all
>> Jorgen
>>
>> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-l29-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Deeth
>> Sent: Friday, 25 March 2016 21:07
>> To: l29-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
>>
>> I read once about an L-29 being operated in the UK where they disconnecte
d the oxy system and plumbed those bottles into the pneumatic system, almost
doubles the capacity if I recall...? Has anyone else looked at doing that?
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 4:20 AM, Bill Culberson <bculberson@staraviation.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Ultrasonic leak detector only works on the high pressure leaks (75-100 BA
R), as it detects the specific audio signature of high pressure gas escaping
. Canopy seals and brakes are at lower pressures and the soap and water test
seems best.
>>
>> I don=99t use a Schrader valve but rather the original quarter turn
valve but recently converted the N2 Cover to having a Schrader adapter
=9Cjust in case=9D. My plane doesn=99t leak much but discovered t
hat with the cover changed and a good gasket the N2 cover that the N2 remain
s for weeks instead of days. Main check valve must be leaking.
>>
>> I like the Hand valve at the tanks, what did you use? Pics?
>>
>> Bill
>> N39DE
>>
>> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-l29-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
>> Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 2:52 AM
>> To: l29-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
>>
>> I also tried an ultrasonic leak detector, got a very expensive version on
trial for a week from a specialty supplier. Could not find anything using i
t either. Soapy water is messy but seems to work best.
>>
>> My air system is modified, with a hand valve installed close to the bottl
es. When I am done flying, I shut it off. Also nice if using the L29 to go
somewhere, turn it off after landing, turn it back on before flight, no los
ses.
>>
>> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-l29-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Royal
>> Sent: Friday, 25 March 2016 02:17
>> To: l29-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
>>
>> Hey guys,
>> Thanks for all your suggestions! John, I did the soapy water test on eve
ry fitting I could find all the way back to the fittings for the emergency b
ottle and beyond. ...tightened too. No Joy.
>>
>> Bill, I think I did the top nut but missed the lower nut. I'll look at th
at next . Yeah, I'm 60 and a little too big to get into that small of quarte
rs.
>>
>> Hey Frank, thanks for the info too!
>>
>> I'm also looking at disconnecting the the main pressurizing line line at t
he pressure reduction valve for the down stream items, after the nitrogen bo
ttles, and capping off the line and then pressurizing the bottles. This shou
ld tell me if there is a leak anywhere upstream of the reduction valve in th
e main charging system. The emergency bottle holds pressure perfectly so no p
roblems there.
>>
>> According to the service manual, the minimum loss is 5 atm over 2 hours. S
o, I'm right on that limit at 2.5 atm per hour.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 7:15 PM, John Cabrera <jetblast1@me.com> wrot
e:
>>
>>
>> I don=9Dt know if this is going to be of any help and some may laug
h at me but i was chasing at leak in the rear canopy. Bought a fancy ultras
onic leak detector and could not find any leak. Finally decided to check wi
th old fashion soapy water and a spray bottle. That worked.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Anthony Royal <skyking76t@verizon.net> wrote
:
>>
>> Guys, my L-29 has always held nitrogen for days without much loss of pre
ssure. Other day I pressurized to 140 atm because of a long flight and day. P
ressure bled off immediately from 140 to about 90 atm before I could get out
of the hangar. And was totally empty the next day. I found several loose, o
riginal safety wired, connections not tight. Packing nut on the nitrogen pur
ge valve was loose too. Tightened every fitting and thing I could find from n
ose to rear cockpit.
>>
>> Now, if I pressurize to 50 atm, I will lose 30 atm in 12 hours. If I pres
surize to 100 atm I lose 30 atm in 12 hours. Very consistent now. That's ab
out 2.5 atm per hour. Any suggestions what else might cause such a consiste
nt leak? Thinking maybe the pressure relief valve leaking? Check valve? Rea
ding manuals and reviewing diagrams but thought maybe someone else may have r
un into this same problem and save a lot of time
>>
>> Someone, in a post I can't find, suggested an ultrasonic tester of some s
ort to detect high pressure leaks. Does anyone know which one it was?
>>
>> Also, looking for the glass lens for the taxi light. Rock must have hit m
ineand cracked it in half. Glued it back but would like to replacement. Als
o looking for connector to ARC EA-401A encoding altimeter.
>>
>> Thanks for any info
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Re: Nitrogen Loss |
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| Subject: | Re: Nitrogen Loss |
Mine has been that way for 25 years. I converted everything, used the
oxygen valve in the cockpit. When my brake pressure gets low, I open the
valve and top it off.
On Mar 25, 2016, at 13:07, Frank Deeth <tr.9@westnet.com.au> wrote:
> I read once about an L-29 being operated in the UK where they
disconnected the oxy system and plumbed those bottles into the pneumatic
system, almost doubles the capacity if I recall...? Has anyone else
looked at doing that?
>
> Frank
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 26, 2016, at 4:20 AM, Bill Culberson
<bculberson@staraviation.com> wrote:
>
>> Ultrasonic leak detector only works on the high pressure leaks
(75-100 BAR), as it detects the specific audio signature of high
pressure gas escaping. Canopy seals and brakes are at lower pressures
and the soap and water test seems best.
>>
>> I don=92t use a Schrader valve but rather the original quarter turn
valve but recently converted the N2 Cover to having a Schrader adapter
=93just in case=94. My plane doesn=92t leak much but discovered that
with the cover changed and a good gasket the N2 cover that the N2
remains for weeks instead of days. Main check valve must be leaking.
>>
>> I like the Hand valve at the tanks, what did you use? Pics?
>>
>> Bill
>> N39DE
>>
>> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
>> Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 2:52 AM
>> To: l29-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
>>
>> I also tried an ultrasonic leak detector, got a very expensive
version on trial for a week from a specialty supplier. Could not find
anything using it either. Soapy water is messy but seems to work best.
>>
>> My air system is modified, with a hand valve installed close to the
bottles. When I am done flying, I shut it off. Also nice if using the
L29 to go somewhere, turn it off after landing, turn it back on before
flight, no losses.
>>
>> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Royal
>> Sent: Friday, 25 March 2016 02:17
>> To: l29-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
>>
>> Hey guys,
>> Thanks for all your suggestions! John, I did the soapy water test on
every fitting I could find all the way back to the fittings for the
emergency bottle and beyond. ...tightened too. No Joy.
>>
>> Bill, I think I did the top nut but missed the lower nut. I'll look
at that next . Yeah, I'm 60 and a little too big to get into that small
of quarters.
>>
>> Hey Frank, thanks for the info too!
>>
>> I'm also looking at disconnecting the the main pressurizing line line
at the pressure reduction valve for the down stream items, after the
nitrogen bottles, and capping off the line and then pressurizing the
bottles. This should tell me if there is a leak anywhere upstream of the
reduction valve in the main charging system. The emergency bottle holds
pressure perfectly so no problems there.
>>
>> According to the service manual, the minimum loss is 5 atm over 2
hours. So, I'm right on that limit at 2.5 atm per hour.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 7:15 PM, John Cabrera <jetblast1@me.com>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don=94t know if this is going to be of any help and some may laugh
at me but i was chasing at leak in the rear canopy. Bought a fancy
ultrasonic leak detector and could not find any leak. Finally decided
to check with old fashion soapy water and a spray bottle. That worked.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Anthony Royal <skyking76t@verizon.net>
wrote:
>>
>> Guys, my L-29 has always held nitrogen for days without much loss of
pressure. Other day I pressurized to 140 atm because of a long flight
and day. Pressure bled off immediately from 140 to about 90 atm before I
could get out of the hangar. And was totally empty the next day. I
found several loose, original safety wired, connections not tight.
Packing nut on the nitrogen purge valve was loose too. Tightened every
fitting and thing I could find from nose to rear cockpit.
>>
>> Now, if I pressurize to 50 atm, I will lose 30 atm in 12 hours. If I
pressurize to 100 atm I lose 30 atm in 12 hours. Very consistent now.
That's about 2.5 atm per hour. Any suggestions what else might cause
such a consistent leak? Thinking maybe the pressure relief valve
leaking? Check valve? Reading manuals and reviewing diagrams but
thought maybe someone else may have run into this same problem and save
a lot of time
>>
>> Someone, in a post I can't find, suggested an ultrasonic tester of
some sort to detect high pressure leaks. Does anyone know which one it
was?
>>
>> Also, looking for the glass lens for the taxi light. Rock must have
hit mineand cracked it in half. Glued it back but would like to
replacement. Also looking for connector to ARC EA-401A encoding
altimeter.
>>
>> Thanks for any info
>>
>> Anthony
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| Subject: | Re: Nitrogen Loss |
send description and pix.
On Mar 25, 2016, at 20:36, Jean de Roubin <delfin29@me.com> wrote:
> I think the best way is an air compressor, working automatically at 20
bars and stopping at 50.
> My, installed by the tzechs and approved by the factory is perfectly
working since 15 years. No need of ground support.
> Jean de Roubin
>
> Envoy=E9 de mon iPhone
>
> Le 25 mars 2016 =E0 19:58, Frank Deeth <tr.9@westnet.com.au> a =E9crit
:
>
>> Thanks Jorgen!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 26 Mar 2016, at 6:50 AM, Jorgen Nielsen
<jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za> wrote:
>>
>>> Mine is also done like that. I only posted half the story earlier,
herewith then the full story J
>>>
>>> I don=92t use oxygen, so repurposed the tanks.
>>>
>>> My oxygen tanks have a tap on them, close to the bottles, and a
pressure gauge. The tap & gauge is situated in the nose compartment.
>>> My normal air bottle (N2) also have a tap on them, and a gauge, also
in the nose compartment.
>>> So far, 2 separate systems.
>>> After the taps, they are interconnected via a T, output goes to the
air system.
>>>
>>> Benefits:
>>> Closing the valves means no leaks when she is standing.
>>> Having the 2 systems that close means I can go away for a weekend
with no ground support, or for example a 3 hop ferry I did a while back.
At the destination, close the active system. For the next flight, pick
a system and open valve. When the system is empty use the next one.
>>>
>>> To fill, if its just a normal flight from home base, I open the
valve for whichever system is in use, and fill normally. For extended
flights, one can fill one system at a time, or open both and fill both,
then close one.
>>>
>>> So far, completely trouble free for a number of years.
>>>
>>> I will have to take some pics when at the airport. I used spare
hand operated valves, similar to the pressure release inside the
cockpit. I never did the work myself, I have a Russian guy who does all
my maintenance, I just dreamt it up and asked him to do it.
>>>
>>> Another mod we did: my front / rear braking system has been
reversed. I was once taxying with pax, and asked them to hold the brake
while I did something. On release, when I took over, suddenly I had no
brakes, and no steering obviously. We almost went farming. In normal
ops, the rear brake is for the instructor, and held a certain way can
disable the front cabin system. Not good for how we operate them
privately.
>>>
>>> Regards to all
>>> Jorgen
>>>
>>> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Deeth
>>> Sent: Friday, 25 March 2016 21:07
>>> To: l29-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
>>>
>>> I read once about an L-29 being operated in the UK where they
disconnected the oxy system and plumbed those bottles into the pneumatic
system, almost doubles the capacity if I recall...? Has anyone else
looked at doing that?
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Mar 26, 2016, at 4:20 AM, Bill Culberson
<bculberson@staraviation.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ultrasonic leak detector only works on the high pressure leaks
(75-100 BAR), as it detects the specific audio signature of high
pressure gas escaping. Canopy seals and brakes are at lower pressures
and the soap and water test seems best.
>>>
>>> I don=92t use a Schrader valve but rather the original quarter turn
valve but recently converted the N2 Cover to having a Schrader adapter
=93just in case=94. My plane doesn=92t leak much but discovered that
with the cover changed and a good gasket the N2 cover that the N2
remains for weeks instead of days. Main check valve must be leaking.
>>>
>>> I like the Hand valve at the tanks, what did you use? Pics?
>>>
>>> Bill
>>> N39DE
>>>
>>> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
>>> Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 2:52 AM
>>> To: l29-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
>>>
>>> I also tried an ultrasonic leak detector, got a very expensive
version on trial for a week from a specialty supplier. Could not find
anything using it either. Soapy water is messy but seems to work best.
>>>
>>> My air system is modified, with a hand valve installed close to the
bottles. When I am done flying, I shut it off. Also nice if using the
L29 to go somewhere, turn it off after landing, turn it back on before
flight, no losses.
>>>
>>> From: owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-l29-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Royal
>>> Sent: Friday, 25 March 2016 02:17
>>> To: l29-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
>>>
>>> Hey guys,
>>> Thanks for all your suggestions! John, I did the soapy water test
on every fitting I could find all the way back to the fittings for the
emergency bottle and beyond. ...tightened too. No Joy.
>>>
>>> Bill, I think I did the top nut but missed the lower nut. I'll look
at that next . Yeah, I'm 60 and a little too big to get into that small
of quarters.
>>>
>>> Hey Frank, thanks for the info too!
>>>
>>> I'm also looking at disconnecting the the main pressurizing line
line at the pressure reduction valve for the down stream items, after
the nitrogen bottles, and capping off the line and then pressurizing the
bottles. This should tell me if there is a leak anywhere upstream of the
reduction valve in the main charging system. The emergency bottle holds
pressure perfectly so no problems there.
>>>
>>> According to the service manual, the minimum loss is 5 atm over 2
hours. So, I'm right on that limit at 2.5 atm per hour.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 7:15 PM, John Cabrera <jetblast1@me.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I don=94t know if this is going to be of any help and some may laugh
at me but i was chasing at leak in the rear canopy. Bought a fancy
ultrasonic leak detector and could not find any leak. Finally decided
to check with old fashion soapy water and a spray bottle. That worked.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Anthony Royal <skyking76t@verizon.net>
wrote:
>>>
>>> Guys, my L-29 has always held nitrogen for days without much loss
of pressure. Other day I pressurized to 140 atm because of a long flight
and day. Pressure bled off immediately from 140 to about 90 atm before I
could get out of the hangar. And was totally empty the next day. I
found several loose, original safety wired, connections not tight.
Packing nut on the nitrogen purge valve was loose too. Tightened every
fitting and thing I could find from nose to rear cockpit.
>>>
>>> Now, if I pressurize to 50 atm, I will lose 30 atm in 12 hours. If I
pressurize to 100 atm I lose 30 atm in 12 hours. Very consistent now.
That's about 2.5 atm per hour. Any suggestions what else might cause
such a consistent leak? Thinking maybe the pressure relief valve
leaking? Check valve? Reading manuals and reviewing diagrams but
thought maybe someone else may have run into this same problem and save
a lot of time
>>>
>>> Someone, in a post I can't find, suggested an ultrasonic tester of
some sort to detect high pressure leaks. Does anyone know which one it
was?
>>>
>>> Also, looking for the glass lens for the taxi light. Rock must have
hit mineand cracked it in half. Glued it back but would like to
replacement. Also looking for connector to ARC EA-401A encoding
altimeter.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any info
>>>
>>> Anthony
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