---------------------------------------------------------- L29-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/19/17: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:13 AM - Flaps Won't Retract (RJM) 2. 05:12 AM - Re: Flaps Won't Retract (William Geipel) 3. 05:13 AM - Re: Stabilator Trim Motor (William Geipel) 4. 07:07 AM - Re: Stabilator Trim Motor (Anthony Royal) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:53 AM PST US Subject: L29-List: Flaps Won't Retract From: "RJM" Hi, The aircraft is undergoing an inspection. With a hydraulic mule connected, landing gear retracts and extends normally as do the speed brakes. Flaps were extended with the normal system but we cannot retract them. Stabilizer is trimming normally for the 0, 15, and 30 position but the flaps won't retract. Both front and back buttons have the same effect. Any ideas? Thanks, Richard Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470219#470219 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: L29-List: Flaps Won't Retract From: William Geipel Have you drained the emergency extension valve in the right wheel well? If yes, micro switch in wing root is stuck. > On Jun 19, 2017, at 01:13, RJM wrote: > > > Hi, > > The aircraft is undergoing an inspection. With a hydraulic mule connected, landing gear retracts and extends normally as do the speed brakes. Flaps were extended with the normal system but we cannot retract them. Stabilizer is trimming normally for the 0, 15, and 30 position but the flaps won't retract. Both front and back buttons have the same effect. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > Richard > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470219#470219 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:54 AM PST US From: William Geipel Subject: Re: L29-List: Stabilator Trim Motor Mine was a joke, but, we really want to know where to send it. to quote the Pres. sad! > On Jun 18, 2017, at 09:06, Anthony Royal wrote: > > I would guess there are some intelligent people out there who maybe would like to know what may be causing their trim motor problem. If you don't want to know, then don't read it! Contribute something constructive instead of sarcasm. > > Hey, maybe I'll trade the trim motor repair info for a few flares.....people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. > > > > > On Sunday, June 18, 2017 9:19 AM, Anthony Royal wrote: > > > Play nice or I'll go home with my trim motor > > > On Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:53 PM, William Geipel wrote: > > > We don=99t care how he did it. Just tell him to remember and make sure you keep his contact info for us to ship ours. > > Bill > > > >> On Jun 17, 2017, at 15:14, Anthony Royal > wrote: >> >> I told him he might be going into a new business because trim motors seem to be a common problem with the L29 >> >> >> On Saturday, June 17, 2017 1:20 PM, John Cabrera > wrote: >> >> >> If it works he is our new trim motor guy. >> >> john cabrera >> >> >> >>> On Jun 17, 2017, at 6:48 AM, Anthony Royal > wrote: >>> >>> The tech still has the trim motor assy as he has to get the old bearings out of the housing and order new bearings (metric you know) and lubricate everything with new grease. We spent about 4 hours just to troubleshoot. The motor has an ingenious electromagnetic brake inside so when power is interrupted, the motor/jackscrew rotation stops and it is held in place. Interestingly, before we separated the motor from the jack screw housing, turning the armature by hand would not retract or extend the jack screw but turning the adapter on the jack screw housing did extend and retract the jack screw. So it's pretty much narrowed it down to the motor itself. Being that the motor would not run initially when power was applied and took some unusual effort to get it started, confidence is high the bearings are the issue. Checking the field coils with a meter showed good. Brushes were like new. Also, being that the trim motor worked initially for departure but nothing from there on, pretty much pointed to the trim motor. I had cycled several times on the ground and got the trim moving light so the aircraft system seems to be good. >>> >>> We didn't take any photos at that time cause we didn't know what we were looking for but I will ask if he can when he puts back together. Basically, separate the motor from the jack screw housing. Gently pull apart and you will see the electrobrake. In the end of the motor there is an insert that couples the motor to the brake. Remove it by pulling straight out to see the front bearing. When we got the motor running, not at full rpm, you could see the ball bearings and some were turning at a different speed or not at all and you could see the armature just barely wobbling. There's only about 0.020" clearance between the armature and field coils. You could hearing the grinding of the bad bearings or possibly the armature hitting and feel the vibration in the motor itself. The grease being 20+ years old and having no lubricity left, more than likely caused the bearings to fail and when power was applied, allowed the armature to cock just enough to be out of alignment with the field coil. >>> >>> This is our theory but it seems to be validated by what we did but will know more once we get the new bearings installed. I will post more later once we get the new bearings installed, test the motor on the bench, and test in the plane. >>> >>> Tony >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, June 17, 2017 3:24 AM, Hartley Postlethwaite > wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >>> Do you have any good pictures? This could be a good small comment to put in the next Red Alert. Deadline is the end of this month for submissions. >>> >>> Feel free to send me a PM. >>> >>> Postal >>> RPA President >>> FlyingHartley@gmail.com >>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigsp ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>> http://forum=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - >>> http://wiki.matronics.com >>> http://www.matronics.com/c >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:27 AM PST US From: Anthony Royal Subject: Re: L29-List: Stabilator Trim Motor Sorry, it didn't come across like that but that happens with emails. My apo logies. I will post shortly. He's having to find the bearings. The bearings are mag neto bearings and his normal supplier won't sell to him because it's for an aircraft. He's going to another source. On Monday, June 19, 2017 8:16 AM, William Geipel wro te: Mine was a joke, but, we really want to know where to send it. to quote the Pres. sad! On Jun 18, 2017, at 09:06, Anthony Royal wrote: I would guess there are some intelligent people out there who maybe would l ike to know what may be causing their trim motor problem. If you don't want to know, then don't read it! =C2-Contribute something constructive inste ad of sarcasm. Hey, maybe I'll trade the trim motor repair info for a few flares.....peopl e in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. On Sunday, June 18, 2017 9:19 AM, Anthony Royal wrote: Play nice or I'll go home with my trim motor On Saturday, June 17, 2017 7:53 PM, William Geipel w rote: We don=99t care how he did it. Just tell him to remember and make su re you keep his contact info for us to ship ours. Bill On Jun 17, 2017, at 15:14, Anthony Royal wrote: I told him he might be going into a new business because trim motors seem t o be a common problem with the L29 On Saturday, June 17, 2017 1:20 PM, John Cabrera wro te: If it works he is our new trim motor guy. john cabrera On Jun 17, 2017, at 6:48 AM, Anthony Royal wrote: The tech still has the trim motor assy as he has to get the old bearings ou t of the housing and order new bearings (metric you know) and lubricate eve rything with new grease. We spent about 4 hours just to troubleshoot. The m otor has an ingenious electromagnetic brake inside so when power is interru pted, the motor/jackscrew rotation stops and it is held in place. Interesti ngly, before we separated the motor from the jack screw housing, turning th e armature by hand would not retract or extend the jack screw but turning t he adapter on the jack screw housing did extend and retract the jack screw. So it's pretty much narrowed it down to the motor itself. Being that the m otor would not run initially when power was applied and took some unusual e ffort to get it started, confidence is high the bearings are the issue. Che cking the field coils with a meter showed good. Brushes were like new. Also , being that the trim motor worked initially for departure but nothing from there on, pretty much pointed to the trim motor. I had cycled several time s on the ground and got the trim moving light so the aircraft system seems to be good. We didn't take any photos at that time cause we didn't know what we were lo oking for but I will ask if he can when he puts back together. Basically, s eparate the motor from the jack screw housing. Gently pull apart and you wi ll see the electrobrake. In the end of the motor there is an insert that co uples the motor to the brake. Remove it by pulling straight out to see the front bearing. When we got the motor running, not at full rpm, you could se e the ball bearings and some were turning at a different speed or not at al l and you could see the armature just barely wobbling. There's only about 0 .020" clearance between the armature and field coils. You could hearing the grinding of the bad bearings or possibly the armature hitting and feel the vibration in the motor itself. The grease being 20+ years old and having n o lubricity left, more than likely caused the bearings to fail and when pow er was applied, allowed the armature to cock just enough to be out of align ment with the field coil. This is our theory but it seems to be validated by what we did but will kno w more once we get the new bearings installed. I will post more later once we get the new bearings installed, test the motor on the bench, and test in the plane.=C2- Tony On Saturday, June 17, 2017 3:24 AM, Hartley Postlethwaite wrote: Do you have any good pictures?=C2- This could be a good small comment to put in the next Red Alert.=C2- Deadline is the end of this month for subm issions. Feel free to send me a PM. Postal RPA President FlyingHartley@gmail.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigsp; =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- - MATR ONICS WEB FORUMS - http://forum=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - http://wiki.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message l29-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/L29-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/l29-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/l29-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.