---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/15/06: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:43 AM - Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Pilot Report - Lightning (Pete) 2. 01:59 PM - Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Pilot Report - Lightning (Dave) 3. 02:31 PM - Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Pilot Report - Lightning (Pete) 4. 05:27 PM - Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Pilot Report - Lightning (Dave) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:10 AM PST US From: "Pete" Subject: RE: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Dave, You must have a problem with the pitot static system if you are reporting only 126 mph at 2850 with all the fairings. Even the 2200 powered Esqual with the fairings will do more than that at 2850. Have you done a pitot static check or determined if there is a leak in the system that would result in readings that low? Even at the pitch you have the prop set at you will do more than 126 mph without fairings. As far as the carb tuning - the carb must be tuned to the prop load on the engine. If you are seeing 1450+ at cruise at that prop pitch you probably have less prop load on the engine that the carb is tuned for. Less prop load results in a lean mixture since less vacuum is delivered to the top side of the carb dome. Less vacuum there results in the diaphragm not pulling the needle up far enough out of the jet to provide the correct mixture. First step - since the engine shakes at full rpm is to try a larger main jet. If you had a 255 before try a 265. That should richen the mixture at full throttle. If you are running rich instead of lean then the condition will be worse. If it is rich then try a 245 main and see if it is better. Pete _____ From: esqualtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:esqualtalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Buz Thanks for all the info. It sure helps 1. I do have the Vans wheel pants on 2. I have the Vans fairings also on 3. I am running the carbon Sensenich prop @ 19.5 at 12 inches in 4.My cruise at 2850 is at 126 mph indicated. 5. Last night at 5000 ft with oats of 68, the engine was struggling at 3150 "missing" Believe it or not, I showed no increase in speed with pants or fairings, I still believe the engine is not putting out what it should, today I will play with the float levels. Stumped - Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol. com Cc: lightning-list@ matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Dave, Let me jump in here and ask a few questions. Do you have gear leg fairings (Van's RV style)? Those alone are good for at least 10 mph if not more. Do you have the latest style Van's RV wheel pants? Those will give you at least another 10 mph - well 10 to 15 above not having any wheel pants on. I am not sure what they would add over the stock Esqual pants, but probably at least half of that. I never flew my airplane with Esqual pants on. So if the answer to the above questions is no, they we have identified at least 20 mph. Another thing that cleaning up the gear legs and wheels will do it give your engine additional rpm. With the lower drag profile with the fairings on, the engine does not have to work as hard. Besides the 20 plus mph increase in speed, you will probably pick up at least 200 rpm - if not more. My airplane will run an easy 150 TAS at 5000 feet on 2850 rpm. At 3250 I am seeing 180 mph TAS along now (hot outside - density altitude more like 6700' when at 5000 msl), but last winter I was seeing 185 mph TAS when at 5000. The big unknown for my airplane is how many mph is the Lightning cowling worth. Once again, I never flew it with an Esqual cowling. What I do remember is that at 5000' (last winter - and with a fixed 53 inch pitch) before I put on gear leg fairings or wheel pants my max speed was 165 mph TAS. Based on what you are seeing, does that mean that the Lightning cowling is good for 15 mph. Maybe it is, but without us both using the same prop, it would be hard to say for sure. As to your EGTs, do all six exhaust have probes? I do, and some of them are slightly closer to the exhasut outlet just because of the way the exhaust manifold is shaped. My hotest EGT at 5000' last winter (OAT 53 degrees F) was about 1450 at 2850 rpm. It went up to 1475 between 2900 and 2950 rpm, and then started down as rpm increased from that point. Remember, I don't have a muffler, so that might have some impact. Hope this helps some. Blue Skies, Buz __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (16) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Yahoo! Groups You are receiving Individual Emails Change Delivery Settings Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Celebrity News Get the latest gossip/news Y! GeoCities Be Interactive Create a conver- sation with blogs. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. .. __,_._,___ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:59:43 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Pete thanks for the help I did a pitot static check and found no leaks or tight bends in lines. I tried a 245, 250, 255 main. The 245 gave me redline egts having the prop set at 20 degrees. All jets gave same result- engine shake at full rpm. Pete, could the timing advance at full rpm be affecting this and how does one check this? It seems the engine is not putting out full power. It is burning about 6 oz oil per hr. stupid- I mean -stumped, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:42 AM Subject: RE: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Dave, You must have a problem with the pitot static system if you are reporting only 126 mph at 2850 with all the fairings. Even the 2200 powered Esqual with the fairings will do more than that at 2850. Have you done a pitot static check or determined if there is a leak in the system that would result in readings that low? Even at the pitch you have the prop set at you will do more than 126 mph without fairings. As far as the carb tuning - the carb must be tuned to the prop load on the engine. If you are seeing 1450+ at cruise at that prop pitch you probably have less prop load on the engine that the carb is tuned for. Less prop load results in a lean mixture since less vacuum is delivered to the top side of the carb dome. Less vacuum there results in the diaphragm not pulling the needle up far enough out of the jet to provide the correct mixture. First step - since the engine shakes at full rpm is to try a larger main jet. If you had a 255 before try a 265. That should richen the mixture at full throttle. If you are running rich instead of lean then the condition will be worse. If it is rich then try a 245 main and see if it is better. Pete ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: esqualtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:esqualtalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:46 AM To: esqualtalk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Buz Thanks for all the info. It sure helps 1. I do have the Vans wheel pants on 2. I have the Vans fairings also on 3. I am running the carbon Sensenich prop @ 19.5 at 12 inches in 4.My cruise at 2850 is at 126 mph indicated. 5. Last night at 5000 ft with oats of 68, the engine was struggling at 3150 "missing" Believe it or not, I showed no increase in speed with pants or fairings, I still believe the engine is not putting out what it should, today I will play with the float levels. Stumped - Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: esqualtalk@yahoogroups.com Cc: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Dave, Let me jump in here and ask a few questions. Do you have gear leg fairings (Van's RV style)? Those alone are good for at least 10 mph if not more. Do you have the latest style Van's RV wheel pants? Those will give you at least another 10 mph - well 10 to 15 above not having any wheel pants on. I am not sure what they would add over the stock Esqual pants, but probably at least half of that. I never flew my airplane with Esqual pants on. So if the answer to the above questions is no, they we have identified at least 20 mph. Another thing that cleaning up the gear legs and wheels will do it give your engine additional rpm. With the lower drag profile with the fairings on, the engine does not have to work as hard. Besides the 20 plus mph increase in speed, you will probably pick up at least 200 rpm - if not more. My airplane will run an easy 150 TAS at 5000 feet on 2850 rpm. At 3250 I am seeing 180 mph TAS along now (hot outside - density altitude more like 6700' when at 5000 msl), but last winter I was seeing 185 mph TAS when at 5000. The big unknown for my airplane is how many mph is the Lightning cowling worth. Once again, I never flew it with an Esqual cowling. What I do remember is that at 5000' (last winter - and with a fixed 53 inch pitch) before I put on gear leg fairings or wheel pants my max speed was 165 mph TAS. Based on what you are seeing, does that mean that the Lightning cowling is good for 15 mph. Maybe it is, but without us both using the same prop, it would be hard to say for sure. As to your EGTs, do all six exhaust have probes? I do, and some of them are slightly closer to the exhasut outlet just because of the way the exhaust manifold is shaped. My hotest EGT at 5000' last winter (OAT 53 degrees F) was about 1450 at 2850 rpm. It went up to 1475 between 2900 and 2950 rpm, and then started down as rpm increased from that point. Remember, I don't have a muffler, so that might have some impact. Hope this helps some. Blue Skies, Buz __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (16) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar You are receiving Individual Emails Change Delivery Settings Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Celebrity News Get the latest gossip/news Y! GeoCities Be Interactive Create a conver- sation with blogs. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . __,_._,___ ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:54 PM PST US From: "Pete" Subject: RE: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Dave, Since the jetting does not seem to change the situation, then the next possible culprit would be the air intake to the carb. The flow into the carb must be as smooth as possible. Too tight a bend in the SCAT hose close to the carb will result in turbulent air into the carb and at high rpms will cause the diaphragm to bounce and richen the mixture. Carefully check the intake routing to make the air go straight in for the last few inches of Scat duct before the carb. I still think there is an airspeed error. 2850 rpm with that prop will propel a Jabiru aircraft faster than 126 mph. It is impossible for me to believe that at 2850 rpm an Esqual would be slower than a Jabiru. 126 knots might be in the relm of possibility but not 126 mph. It makes no sense. I think you should fly it down here and we'll find a way to straighten it out. Pete _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Pete thanks for the help I did a pitot static check and found no leaks or tight bends in lines. I tried a 245, 250, 255 main. The 245 gave me redline egts having the prop set at 20 degrees. All jets gave same result- engine shake at full rpm. Pete, could the timing advance at full rpm be affecting this and how does one check this? It seems the engine is not putting out full power. It is burning about 6 oz oil per hr. stupid- I mean -stumped, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:42 AM Subject: RE: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Dave, You must have a problem with the pitot static system if you are reporting only 126 mph at 2850 with all the fairings. Even the 2200 powered Esqual with the fairings will do more than that at 2850. Have you done a pitot static check or determined if there is a leak in the system that would result in readings that low? Even at the pitch you have the prop set at you will do more than 126 mph without fairings. As far as the carb tuning - the carb must be tuned to the prop load on the engine. If you are seeing 1450+ at cruise at that prop pitch you probably have less prop load on the engine that the carb is tuned for. Less prop load results in a lean mixture since less vacuum is delivered to the top side of the carb dome. Less vacuum there results in the diaphragm not pulling the needle up far enough out of the jet to provide the correct mixture. First step - since the engine shakes at full rpm is to try a larger main jet. If you had a 255 before try a 265. That should richen the mixture at full throttle. If you are running rich instead of lean then the condition will be worse. If it is rich then try a 245 main and see if it is better. Pete _____ From: esqualtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:esqualtalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Buz Thanks for all the info. It sure helps 1. I do have the Vans wheel pants on 2. I have the Vans fairings also on 3. I am running the carbon Sensenich prop @ 19.5 at 12 inches in 4.My cruise at 2850 is at 126 mph indicated. 5. Last night at 5000 ft with oats of 68, the engine was struggling at 3150 "missing" Believe it or not, I showed no increase in speed with pants or fairings, I still believe the engine is not putting out what it should, today I will play with the float levels. Stumped - Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol. com Cc: lightning-list@ matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Dave, Let me jump in here and ask a few questions. Do you have gear leg fairings (Van's RV style)? Those alone are good for at least 10 mph if not more. Do you have the latest style Van's RV wheel pants? Those will give you at least another 10 mph - well 10 to 15 above not having any wheel pants on. I am not sure what they would add over the stock Esqual pants, but probably at least half of that. I never flew my airplane with Esqual pants on. So if the answer to the above questions is no, they we have identified at least 20 mph. Another thing that cleaning up the gear legs and wheels will do it give your engine additional rpm. With the lower drag profile with the fairings on, the engine does not have to work as hard. Besides the 20 plus mph increase in speed, you will probably pick up at least 200 rpm - if not more. My airplane will run an easy 150 TAS at 5000 feet on 2850 rpm. At 3250 I am seeing 180 mph TAS along now (hot outside - density altitude more like 6700' when at 5000 msl), but last winter I was seeing 185 mph TAS when at 5000. The big unknown for my airplane is how many mph is the Lightning cowling worth. Once again, I never flew it with an Esqual cowling. What I do remember is that at 5000' (last winter - and with a fixed 53 inch pitch) before I put on gear leg fairings or wheel pants my max speed was 165 mph TAS. Based on what you are seeing, does that mean that the Lightning cowling is good for 15 mph. Maybe it is, but without us both using the same prop, it would be hard to say for sure. As to your EGTs, do all six exhaust have probes? I do, and some of them are slightly closer to the exhasut outlet just because of the way the exhaust manifold is shaped. My hotest EGT at 5000' last winter (OAT 53 degrees F) was about 1450 at 2850 rpm. It went up to 1475 between 2900 and 2950 rpm, and then started down as rpm increased from that point. Remember, I don't have a muffler, so that might have some impact. Hope this helps some. Blue Skies, Buz __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (16) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Yahoo! Groups You are receiving Individual Emails Change Delivery Settings Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Celebrity News Get the latest gossip/news Y! GeoCities Be Interactive Create a conver- sation with blogs. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. .. __,_._,___ =================================== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List =================================== href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== href="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com =================================== href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution =================================== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:58 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Pete, You are a genius, thanks so much for taking the time to baby-sit me. I did a re-check of pitot line and it was ok. Before flight I removed static line. All of the sudden I am doing 160 TAS. During flight I reached down and reattached static line and went back to 125 mph, thanks so much for help! My scat tube has a sharp bend before the carb with excessive scat tube prior to the clamp. I see in the 3300 manual an elbow is offered. Do you offer this? THANKS AGAIN - Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 4:31 PM Subject: RE: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Dave, Since the jetting does not seem to change the situation, then the next possible culprit would be the air intake to the carb. The flow into the carb must be as smooth as possible. Too tight a bend in the SCAT hose close to the carb will result in turbulent air into the carb and at high rpms will cause the diaphragm to bounce and richen the mixture. Carefully check the intake routing to make the air go straight in for the last few inches of Scat duct before the carb. I still think there is an airspeed error. 2850 rpm with that prop will propel a Jabiru aircraft faster than 126 mph. It is impossible for me to believe that at 2850 rpm an Esqual would be slower than a Jabiru. 126 knots might be in the relm of possibility but not 126 mph. It makes no sense. I think you should fly it down here and we'll find a way to straighten it out. Pete ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:59 PM To: lightning-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Pete thanks for the help I did a pitot static check and found no leaks or tight bends in lines. I tried a 245, 250, 255 main. The 245 gave me redline egts having the prop set at 20 degrees. All jets gave same result- engine shake at full rpm. Pete, could the timing advance at full rpm be affecting this and how does one check this? It seems the engine is not putting out full power. It is burning about 6 oz oil per hr. stupid- I mean -stumped, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:42 AM Subject: RE: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Dave, You must have a problem with the pitot static system if you are reporting only 126 mph at 2850 with all the fairings. Even the 2200 powered Esqual with the fairings will do more than that at 2850. Have you done a pitot static check or determined if there is a leak in the system that would result in readings that low? Even at the pitch you have the prop set at you will do more than 126 mph without fairings. As far as the carb tuning - the carb must be tuned to the prop load on the engine. If you are seeing 1450+ at cruise at that prop pitch you probably have less prop load on the engine that the carb is tuned for. Less prop load results in a lean mixture since less vacuum is delivered to the top side of the carb dome. Less vacuum there results in the diaphragm not pulling the needle up far enough out of the jet to provide the correct mixture. First step - since the engine shakes at full rpm is to try a larger main jet. If you had a 255 before try a 265. That should richen the mixture at full throttle. If you are running rich instead of lean then the condition will be worse. If it is rich then try a 245 main and see if it is better. Pete ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: esqualtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:esqualtalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:46 AM To: esqualtalk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Buz Thanks for all the info. It sure helps 1. I do have the Vans wheel pants on 2. I have the Vans fairings also on 3. I am running the carbon Sensenich prop @ 19.5 at 12 inches in 4.My cruise at 2850 is at 126 mph indicated. 5. Last night at 5000 ft with oats of 68, the engine was struggling at 3150 "missing" Believe it or not, I showed no increase in speed with pants or fairings, I still believe the engine is not putting out what it should, today I will play with the float levels. Stumped - Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: esqualtalk@yahoogroups.com Cc: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [esqualtalk] Re: Lightning-List: Pilot Report - Lightning Dave, Let me jump in here and ask a few questions. Do you have gear leg fairings (Van's RV style)? Those alone are good for at least 10 mph if not more. Do you have the latest style Van's RV wheel pants? Those will give you at least another 10 mph - well 10 to 15 above not having any wheel pants on. I am not sure what they would add over the stock Esqual pants, but probably at least half of that. I never flew my airplane with Esqual pants on. So if the answer to the above questions is no, they we have identified at least 20 mph. Another thing that cleaning up the gear legs and wheels will do it give your engine additional rpm. With the lower drag profile with the fairings on, the engine does not have to work as hard. Besides the 20 plus mph increase in speed, you will probably pick up at least 200 rpm - if not more. My airplane will run an easy 150 TAS at 5000 feet on 2850 rpm. At 3250 I am seeing 180 mph TAS along now (hot outside - density altitude more like 6700' when at 5000 msl), but last winter I was seeing 185 mph TAS when at 5000. The big unknown for my airplane is how many mph is the Lightning cowling worth. Once again, I never flew it with an Esqual cowling. What I do remember is that at 5000' (last winter - and with a fixed 53 inch pitch) before I put on gear leg fairings or wheel pants my max speed was 165 mph TAS. Based on what you are seeing, does that mean that the Lightning cowling is good for 15 mph. Maybe it is, but without us both using the same prop, it would be hard to say for sure. As to your EGTs, do all six exhaust have probes? I do, and some of them are slightly closer to the exhasut outlet just because of the way the exhaust manifold is shaped. My hotest EGT at 5000' last winter (OAT 53 degrees F) was about 1450 at 2850 rpm. It went up to 1475 between 2900 and 2950 rpm, and then started down as rpm increased from that point. Remember, I don't have a muffler, so that might have some impact. Hope this helps some. Blue Skies, Buz __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (16) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar You are receiving Individual Emails Change Delivery Settings Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Celebrity News Get the latest gossip/news Y! GeoCities Be Interactive Create a conver- sation with blogs. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . __,_._,___ ========================= ===========href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigat or?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List== ========================= =========href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://fo rums.matronics.com=================== =================href="http://wiki.ma tronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com============ ========================h ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution===================== =============== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhttp://www.matronics.com /contribution ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ==========