Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:38 AM - Re: Lightning/Esqual Pics (Laurie Hoffman)
2. 05:44 AM - Re: Lightning/Esqual Pics (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
3. 09:41 AM - Re: Lightning/Esqual Pics (Brian Whittingham)
4. 05:05 PM - Line Drawings (Scotty)
5. 05:11 PM - Re: Lightning/ Esqual Pics II (Scotty)
6. 05:21 PM - Re: Line Drawings (Brian Whittingham)
7. 05:28 PM - Re: Re: Lightning/ Esqual Pics II (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
8. 05:47 PM - Re: Line Drawings (Scotty)
9. 05:53 PM - Re: Lightning/Esqual Pics (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
10. 07:51 PM - Re: Lightning/Esqual Pics (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
11. 08:38 PM - Re: Lightning/Esqual Pics (Brian Whittingham)
12. 08:55 PM - Re: Line Drawings (Charles Dewey)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning/Esqual Pics |
--> Lightning-List message posted by: Laurie Hoffman <lozhoffman@yahoo.com>
HI Brian,
Just a quick note to say thank you for the time that
you have obviously put into organising the comparison
photos. As someone who has been trying to compare the
two airframes for some time without having actually
seen either in the flesh, your information has been
invaluable.
Laurie
Sydney
--- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Here are some comparison pictures. As I've already
> established the planes
> look similar and were designed for basically the
> same role, to be a fun
> airplane, but there are some differences in looks
> too.
>
> Picture 1 - This is the Esqual wing planform. I
> drew a dashed blue line to
> show the basic shape of the wing as it does have a
> little wingtip flare at
> the end. This is a different airfoil than the
> Lightning. In a power off
> dive the Esqual wing will top out at about 195mph
> (terminal velocity) but
> the Lightning wing keeps going to ???Mph.
>
> Picture 2 - This is the Hybrid Esqual actually, but
> the prototype Lightning
> wing was tested on this airframe, so it is identical
> in shape at least to
> the Lightning wing on the production planes. As you
> can see the airfoil is
> slightly thicker, It almost looks symmetrical but
> isn't, and it has this
> interesting dual trailing edge cusp which makes a
> teardrop shape. The idea
> is that it will work like the pressure recovery
> wheelpants and create a
> lower pressure towards the back of the airfoil
> making it stay laminar for
> longer.
>
> Picture 3 - This is an Esqual from the front
> quarter. Notice that the
> canopy just swings up and has nothing holding it up
> but forward weight. The
> inlets are square on the cowling and the scoop
> pretrudes out the bottom of
> the cowling for the oil cooler.
>
> Picture 4 - The cowling inlets are round, the oil
> cooler is fed by a NACA
> duct. (there's a new NACA duct that has been tested
> and shown even better
> cooling, I think 10 degrees cooler in oil temps!)
> This canopy is held up by
> gas struts to keep it in place. There are side rear
> windows. It may be
> hard to tell in most of these pics but the shape of
> the canopy is different
> and the optics are much clearer in the Lightning.
> The Esqual always had
> distortion in the canopy. The canopy also seems to
> be thicker in the
> Lightning.
>
> Picture 5 - This is me running up an Esqual last
> winter. Good profile
> comparison
>
> Picture 6 - The Lightning has a longer nose to it.
> These planes always felt
> sportier with how it sits with the long nose and
> all. Notice the afterbody
> behind the wing section stays the same longer ont he
> Lightning before
> beginning to taper. This means more speed than the
> Esqual due to the more
> favorable cross sectional area. Again there's a
> rear window and you can
> actually see behind you. That's something the
> Esqual really lacked. The
> tail is slightly taller in the Lightning giving
> better rudder authority.
> This plane feels a lot better in a strong crosswind
> landing than the Esqual.
>
> Pic 7 - Another profile view of the Esqual.
>
> Pic 8 - The Lightning has weighted and balanced
> control surfaces which the
> Esqual lacked. This allows for higher speeds
> without encountering flutter
> and also a good feel to the controls in flight.
> That leading edge on the
> vertical stabilizer acts like a spade and gives more
> of a feel to the rudder
> than the Esqual had.
>
> Have one more set of pics coming
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning/Esqual Pics |
A couple of questions for Nick, Brian, and all Lightning and/or Esqual
listers to consider. It has been stated several times on these list that the
terminal velocity of the Esqual is 195 mph (due to the wing). Help me to
understand terminal velocity. I know what it means for a falling object, but
what
is the definition for an airplane - is it at idle power or full power? Is it
at 90 degrees of dive angle? Why do I ask - well I have seen 198 mph in
level flight while making a pass down the runway here in Williamsburg (almost
sea
level). That was with the 54 fixed pitch prop and I was pulling the power
slightly to keep from going over 3300 rpm. So, am I going terminal velocity
in level flight? How can I do that - does the Lightning cowling on 31BZ help
the Esqual drag curve that much? From my flight testing phase we already
know that the Lightning cowling certainly increases cruise and top speed on
31BZ, but can it have that much an effect on terminal velocity? Points to ponder!
Blue Skies,
Buz
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning/Esqual Pics |
--> Lightning-List message posted by: "Brian Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
Buzz,
It was at an altitude of about 12,000 feet starting, power to idle, nose
down to about 30 degrees and then steeper. I couldn't get anymore out of it
with power at idle. Now with power in I could get the speed to climb. By
terminal velocity I was stating that there must be a large drag rise on the
airfoil at around that airspeed. I was reading indicated, don't know what
the TAS was. With some power you should be able to overcome that rise in
drag but it is in my opinion that Bravo Zulu is bumping up against that part
of the curve where the drag goes way up with an increase in speed. I think
there's two ways to overcome this, either reduce drag, such as gap seals,
hinge fairings, etc, or add more power to the plane.
I do believe that your plane probably suffers quit a bit less from drag
penalties as do other Esquals, obviously something to it since you have the
fastest Esqual ever built. It is a good question though. It is my
assumption that it is because of a rise in drag. With no power in and
approaching a vertical orientation why else would there be a difference?
Brian W.
P.S. If you could bring that roll of duralar to SYI when you do come in
November that'd be great! Did you ever get your new autopilot installed
yet?
Message 4
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--> Lightning-List message posted by: "Scotty" <mr.scotty@earthlink.net>
Does anyone have any line drawings of the Lightning? (Profile and looking down
from top) I want to play with some paint schemes in Adobe Illustrated.
--------
Scotty
He who doesn't read the news is UN-informed.
He who reads the news is IL-informed.
Mark Twain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66600#66600
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning/ Esqual Pics II |
--> Lightning-List message posted by: "Scotty" <mr.scotty@earthlink.net>
Nice comparison, thanks. Is this wing comparable to the laminar flow airfoil used
in the B-24, P-51 and many modern airliners? I have read about them:
http://www.aviation-history.com/theory/lam-flow.htm
and still do not quite know what I have read.
--------
Scotty
He who doesn't read the news is UN-informed.
He who reads the news is IL-informed.
Mark Twain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66601#66601
Message 6
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Scotty,
Yes, there are some on the website. My email auto resizes. You can get
higher res on the website here at the bottom of the page:
http://www.arionaircraft.com/Specifications.html I"ll attach pics to this
email though. Brian W.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning/ Esqual Pics II |
Scotty,
The Lightning wings sure does look like a low Reynolds number airfoil to
me (which makes a laminar flow airfoil). Nick says it is one of the 6200
series which seems about right to me.
Buz
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Line Drawings |
--> Lightning-List message posted by: "Scotty" <mr.scotty@earthlink.net>
Cool, Thanks, I will look at them and start playing. I cannot do much this week.
We are having an Air Show next weekend here at KFFC Peachtree City GA and
I volunteered - I should have learned better in the Navy many years ago. The
hurrieder I go, the behinder I get.
Y'all come on down, it is mostly military, but there will be lots of noise and
speed.
--------
Scotty
He who doesn't read the news is UN-informed.
He who reads the news is IL-informed.
Mark Twain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66613#66613
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning/Esqual Pics |
In a message dated 10/8/2006 12:42:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dashvii@hotmail.com writes:
It was at an altitude of about 12,000 feet starting, power to idle, nose
down to about 30 degrees and then steeper. I couldn't get anymore out of it
with power at idle.
So the total drag of the Esqual you were flying was the real culprit. Total
meaning wings, fuselage, gear leg fairings, wheel pants, cowling, etc.
Also, with the engine in idle with the prop wind milling would add to the drag
total as well. It would have been interesting to do the same test in 424EA -
the hybrid Esqual with the Lightning wings. But I certainly agree with your
bottom line that the Lightning wing is a considerably lower drag wing than the
Esqual wing.
Buz
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning/Esqual Pics |
In a message dated 10/8/2006 12:42:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dashvii@hotmail.com writes:
P.S. If you could bring that roll of duralar to SYI when you do come in
November that'd be great! Did you ever get your new autopilot installed
yet?
Brain, I forgot to answer the above. Yes, I did get the new autopilot
installed during my last trip to SYI. It is working fine. And yes, I will bring
the duralar to you guys when I drive through there in early November on my
way to Colorado. I need to also bring Ben my framing nail gun. I think he
plans some kind of secret mods to his Mustang so it will be as fast as Nick's
Corvette. If all goes according to plan I will be driving my new Corvette on
this trip.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning/Esqual Pics |
--> Lightning-List message posted by: "Brian Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
Buzz,
I've never done the power-off dive in 424EA, but the plane that I did it
in also didn't have gear leg fairings or wheelpants at the time. So there's
even additional drag on the airframe.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Line Drawings |
--> Lightning-List message posted by: Charles Dewey <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>
I got 3 schematic views emailed to me from Nick.
Please let me know of any ideas you have on creating a
paint scheme for the Lightning as my plane is going to
the paint shop in a week or two and am undecided
myself as to leave it all white and do nylon graphics
or paint it. Charles Dewey
--- Scotty <mr.scotty@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --> Lightning-List message posted by: "Scotty"
> <mr.scotty@earthlink.net>
>
> Does anyone have any line drawings of the Lightning?
> (Profile and looking down from top) I want to play
> with some paint schemes in Adobe Illustrated.
>
> --------
> Scotty
> He who doesn't read the news is UN-informed.
> He who reads the news is IL-informed.
> Mark Twain
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66600#66600
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
>
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>
>
> Admin.
>
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>
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