Lightning-List Digest Archive

Thu 01/25/07


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:36 AM - Re: Lightning Cockpit Photos **Correction** (Rick Bowen)
     2. 06:29 AM - super secret Lightning pic (Brian Whittingham)
     3. 06:47 AM - paint (Brian Whittingham)
     4. 02:34 PM - Re: Moving on... (nick otterback)
     5. 03:43 PM - prelim drag reduction (Brian Whittingham)
     6. 03:47 PM - Re: Moving on... (Daniel Vandenberg)
     7. 05:18 PM - Re: Moving on... (Brian Whittingham)
     8. 05:21 PM - need a video (Brian Whittingham)
     9. 06:25 PM - Re: Lightning exterior pics (Scotty)
    10. 06:33 PM - Re: prelim drag reduction (Jim Langley)
    11. 06:34 PM - website (Brian Whittingham)
    12. 06:38 PM - Re: need a video (Jim Langley)
    13. 06:44 PM - Re: prelim drag reduction (Brian Whittingham)
    14. 06:50 PM - Re: need a video (Brian Whittingham)
    15. 06:58 PM - Re: need a video (Jim Langley)
    16. 07:22 PM - Re: need a video (Brian Whittingham)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:36:35 AM PST US
    From: "Rick Bowen" <rollnloop@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Lightning Cockpit Photos **Correction**
    Mark, Yes, when Brian posted those pics, I did have a moment or two of "consternation" trying to figure out how my Lightning had suddenly turned into an Esqual....! With a completely different panel..! No problem though, I'm sure Brian was running around like a chicken with his head cut-off to get all those pics, and post them. Keep up the good work Brian, we all appreciate the info and pics from 'ya.....some mighty pretty Lightnings coming out of the woodwork soon! Rick >From: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer1@gmail.com> >To: <lightning-list@matronics.com> >Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Cockpit Photos **Correction** >Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:08:20 -0600 > ><mark.stauffer1@gmail.com> > >Brian and others, > >The plane and panel identified as Rick Bowen's is actually Larry Mitchell's >Esqual. I just wanted to clear that up before Rick has a heart attack >thinking we re-painted his plane and took his panel!! Rick actually has a >beautiful burgundy and black cherry paint scheme. If I get the chance I'll >take a picture tomorrow and post it. > >Mark > >Mark Stauffer >Arion Aircraft Builders Assist Program _________________________________________________________________ something more.


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:29:56 AM PST US
    From: "Brian Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
    Subject: super secret Lightning pic
    I tried posting this last night but I guess the internet ate it. Sometimes when you aren't around the hangar at SYI wierd stuff happens: aircraft change into other types, panels transform, tailnumbers vanish. Actually on second look it appears that the Esqual panel with a single EFIS is perhaps a DYnon and not a GRT. Maybe Mark can confirm this? Nobody mentioned anything about the super secret silver disk shaped vertical takeoff and landing aircraft in the background of that one pic. You know the one with the abundance of lights on it. Don't think that I was suppose to release that info just yet. Usually we keep it locked away from prying eyes in the hangar (see attached pic) and only test fly it at night in rural neighborhoods near people with crappy videocameras and shaky hands. Brian W. From: "Rick Bowen" <rollnloop@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Cockpit Photos **Correction** Mark, Yes, when Brian posted those pics, I did have a moment or two of "consternation" trying to figure out how my Lightning had suddenly turned into an Esqual....! With a completely different panel..! No problem though, I'm sure Brian was running around like a chicken with his head cut-off to get all those pics, and post them. Keep up the good work Brian, we all appreciate the info and pics from 'ya.....some mighty pretty Lightnings coming out of the woodwork soon! Rick >From: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer1@gmail.com> >To: <lightning-list@matronics.com> >Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Cockpit Photos **Correction** >Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:08:20 -0600 > ><mark.stauffer1@gmail.com> > >Brian and others, > >The plane and panel identified as Rick Bowen's is actually Larry Mitchell's >Esqual. I just wanted to clear that up before Rick has a heart attack >thinking we re-painted his plane and took his panel!! Rick actually has a >beautiful burgundy and black cherry paint scheme. If I get the chance I'll >take a picture tomorrow and post it. > >Mark > >Mark Stauffer >Arion Aircraft Builders Assist Program _________________________________________________________________ something more. _________________________________________________________________ Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:47:09 AM PST US
    From: "Brian Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
    Subject: paint
    Some of my favorite times to be out at the hangar at Arion Aircraft is when a new plane comes back from paint. It's great because everybody has different tastes and there's some pretty creative ideas and paint schemes. There are some very good looking planes coming out of the shop here at SYI. One of the guys at the terminal building the other day said "wow now that's a good paint scheme" about one of the first flights of John Davis's Lightning. Brian W. _________________________________________________________________ Get Hilary Duffs homepage with her photos, music, and more. http://celebrities.live.com


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:34:44 PM PST US
    From: nick otterback <vettin74@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Moving on...
    It is true that a builder who built the plane themselves with out the Build assist the cost would be about this for a good VFR aircraft: $33,900 kit, $14,900 jabiru 6 cyl, $800 W64ZK56 prop, $850 speed kit, $5000 paint, $2800 GRT sport, $900 EIS6000, $3100 Becker Radio/ Transponder combo, $200 PM501 intercom, $3000 interior, and maybe an extra $1000 for all the little odds and ends, and you still are at about $61,450 and those are rounded up numbers. Now if you add $3,000 per week of build assist , 3 weeks worth , a Panel pre-wire from us $1,200, and a custom panel face from us $600 than you might be at $72,250 so it depends if you want to build your self ...or come build with us......either way you will have a great flying aircraft. Nick IFLYSMODEL@aol.com wrote: Great answers Buzz: The insurance costs you quote are right in line with what it costs me to insure the Bonanza. Jim, it may pay you to check with someone besides Falcon. I found about 10 years ago that other agents may be several hundred dollars cheaper (and still are) Buzz, I was told at the Expo in Sebring that one could put a Lightning together for about $65,000. But from what you have said, it appears that it will cost at least 75 and probably closer to 85,000? It appears that I may be able to sell the Bonanza, but I will have a real problem if the cost is so high. I definitely like and want the Lightning, but cost is a real bugaboo! Lynn --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:43:09 PM PST US
    From: "Brian Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
    Subject: prelim drag reduction
    I've ran some preliminary numbers, which are mainly just theoretical guestimates of a sort. The only thing that I didn't know was what the exact amount of surface area for the lightning was. I used a Lancair 320's surface area in it's place as I figure they're about the same size. That gave me a reduction of about 11% frontal area by using the gap seals alone! Now independent of those numbers I have a similar experiment that I know that was done using a Piper Arrow II. Following the same format there I find that the gap seals alone are on the order of 3 times the amount of drag reduction than on the Arrow. I still have to add in the flap hinge fairings too! Now the Arrow included fuel tank screw fairings, wheel well fairings, flap gap seals, aileron gap seals, and flap hinge fairings! I figure our flap hinge fairings will add slightly more to the above number. Now this is all assuming that I ran the numbers right. Even then it's still just a theoretical value and until tested we can't be sure that we'll get this much even. Although the actual results could be way more as well. Just for reference the Arrow experiment gained 2.5% speed at 75% cruise at 6,500 feet and about 5.5% range. If we apply that to the Lightning we'd get about a 5mph increase in cruise at 75% throttle. I still believe that the actual results will be 8mph or more though. Even though these are just estimates the numbers seem promising. More to come. Brian W. _________________________________________________________________ Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:47:22 PM PST US
    From: Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Moving on...
    Nick or Pete...a few questons: Is there any cost for storage of the kit/airplane at your facility between builder-assist weeks? How long could a builder keep the kit with you guys between builder-assist weeks before you guys get uncomfortable? What would be an estimated cost to have your staff do the test flying, rigging adjustments, and fly off the initial 40 hours on a newly built Lightning? Is interior upholstery similar to Buzz's Esqual LS interior available for the Lightning? Finally...I was watching the video of Brian's landing in Gregg Hobbs airplane on the web site. It's a little fuzzy, but if I'm not mistaken it looks like (after the mains bounced once) the nose gear comes down and then bounces up before coming down a second time. This leads to a question: How is the elevator authority on runout? Is it sufficient to allow the nose to be held off briefly...and then lowered gently to the runway? Not trying to be critical...just want to be assured that the weight differential between the main gear and the nosewheel has been optimized. Thanks... Dan nick otterback <vettin74@yahoo.com> wrote: It is true that a builder who built the plane themselves with out the Build assist the cost would be about this for a good VFR aircraft: $33,900 kit, $14,900 jabiru 6 cyl, $800 W64ZK56 prop, $850 speed kit, $5000 paint, $2800 GRT sport, $900 EIS6000, $3100 Becker Radio/ Transponder combo, $200 PM501 intercom, $3000 interior, and maybe an extra $1000 for all the little odds and ends, and you still are at about $61,450 and those are rounded up numbers. Now if you add $3,000 per week of build assist , 3 weeks worth , a Panel pre-wire from us $1,200, and a custom panel face from us $600 than you might be at $72,250 so it depends if you want to build your self ...or come build with us......either way you will have a great flying aircraft. Nick IFLYSMODEL@aol.com wrote: Great answers Buzz: The insurance costs you quote are right in line with what it costs me to insure the Bonanza. Jim, it may pay you to check with someone besides Falcon. I found about 10 years ago that other agents may be several hundred dollars cheaper (and still are) Buzz, I was told at the Expo in Sebring that one could put a Lightning together for about $65,000. But from what you have said, it appears that it will cost at least 75 and probably closer to 85,000? It appears that I may be able to sell the Bonanza, but I will have a real problem if the cost is so high. I definitely like and want the Lightning, but cost is a real bugaboo! Lynn --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:18:17 PM PST US
    From: "Brian Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Moving on...
    Dan, The guys do keep the plane inside between builder assist. I'm not sure for how long they do it before feeling uncomfortable and they'd have to answer that one. Nick usually flies the first 5 hours or so and makes sure the rigging is right. Then a lot of times they hand it over to me to fly the rest of the time off. I usually charge a pretty fair/affordable price on that. Dang, they did put the worst landing that I've made in years on the internet didn't they? The plane has plenty of elevator authority, and it was actually a pretty approach. Problem was that was in the Hobbs Lightning which he had done all the flying in and not let us do any of the test flying. The rigging was out and there were some issues with the way that he mounted the horizontal stabilizer. Problem on that flight was that everytime that I trimmed I noticed the stick forces got stronger, not weaker. i.e. it was trimming the wrong way. That had to do with the way the tail was put on not being quiet right. So I reversed my thinking and it worked better, but still ran short on trim. I could fully trim it to the stops and let go of the stick and everything hit the canopy with it trying to nose over. It took the guys some time to figure out the problem and get the trim issue solved since his tailfeathers were on wrong. After that the plane flew much better. The video was before that issue was solved and when the plane landed it needed to be landed like a taildragger in that you needed to put the stick all the way back. I landed it like a nosedragger and the nosedown tendency from the trim issues come into play and the nose dropped, the front gear hit and sprang us back into the air. Another thing to note is that Greg's plane was built before there was any kind of builder manual and it is almost like prototype 1.5 if you will. Greg's plane is something like 200lbs heavier empty weight than other production planes. It also had a much further aft CG when empty than others and would nearly set on its tail if you bumped it. My thinking on that landing was to not scrape the tail. I've got about 1,500 landings and that would be the worst in years. Oh well, at least there's video of the planes in flight. Brian W. From: Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Moving on... Nick or Pete...a few questons: Is there any cost for storage of the kit/airplane at your facility between builder-assist weeks? How long could a builder keep the kit with you guys between builder-assist weeks before you guys get uncomfortable? What would be an estimated cost to have your staff do the test flying, rigging adjustments, and fly off the initial 40 hours on a newly built Lightning? Is interior upholstery similar to Buzz's Esqual LS interior available for the Lightning? Finally...I was watching the video of Brian's landing in Gregg Hobbs airplane on the web site. It's a little fuzzy, but if I'm not mistaken it looks like (after the mains bounced once) the nose gear comes down and then bounces up before coming down a second time. This leads to a question: How is the elevator authority on runout? Is it sufficient to allow the nose to be held off briefly...and then lowered gently to the runway? Not trying to be critical...just want to be assured that the weight differential between the main gear and the nosewheel has been optimized. Thanks... Dan nick otterback <vettin74@yahoo.com> wrote: It is true that a builder who built the plane themselves with out the Build assist the cost would be about this for a good VFR aircraft: $33,900 kit, $14,900 jabiru 6 cyl, $800 W64ZK56 prop, $850 speed kit, $5000 paint, $2800 GRT sport, $900 EIS6000, $3100 Becker Radio/ Transponder combo, $200 PM501 intercom, $3000 interior, and maybe an extra $1000 for all the little odds and ends, and you still are at about $61,450 and those are rounded up numbers. Now if you add $3,000 per week of build assist , 3 weeks worth , a Panel pre-wire from us $1,200, and a custom panel face from us $600 than you might be at $72,250 so it depends if you want to build your self ...or come build with us......either way you will have a great flying aircraft. Nick IFLYSMODEL@aol.com wrote: Great answers Buzz: The insurance costs you quote are right in line with what it costs me to insure the Bonanza. Jim, it may pay you to check with someone besides Falcon. I found about 10 years ago that other agents may be several hundred dollars cheaper (and still are) Buzz, I was told at the Expo in Sebring that one could put a Lightning together for about $65,000. But from what you have said, it appears that it will cost at least 75 and probably closer to 85,000? It appears that I may be able to sell the Bonanza, but I will have a real problem if the cost is so high. I definitely like and want the Lightning, but cost is a real bugaboo! Lynn --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. _________________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:21:57 PM PST US
    From: "Brian Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
    Subject: need a video
    Maybe after my experiments are done we can get a little video on the internet. I've got a mini dvr cam that I plan to get in flight footage done. I also have some editing software. Perhaps Pete and Nick and I can get together and map out a plan of attack for a downloadable video on the website for marketing purposes. Maybe a few manuevers, set to music, cockpit cam, external mounted cam shots, on the ground shots. Already talked to Nick about hooking up a bullet cam to some external source. Got some ideas for a video based on other aircraft vids. What do you guys and gals think? Brian W. _________________________________________________________________ >From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:25:28 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Lightning exterior pics
    From: "Scotty" <mr.scotty@earthlink.net>
    Brian, Thanks for all the photos. It keeps the drool factor up real high. -------- Scotty He who doesn't read the news is UN-informed. He who reads the news is IL-informed. Mark Twain Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90487#90487


    Message 10


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:33:08 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    Subject: prelim drag reduction
    Cool information Brian. What kind of affect does drag reduction have on the stall speed? -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:42 PM Subject: Lightning-List: prelim drag reduction <dashvii@hotmail.com> I've ran some preliminary numbers, which are mainly just theoretical guestimates of a sort. The only thing that I didn't know was what the exact amount of surface area for the lightning was. I used a Lancair 320's surface area in it's place as I figure they're about the same size. That gave me a reduction of about 11% frontal area by using the gap seals alone! Now independent of those numbers I have a similar experiment that I know that was done using a Piper Arrow II. Following the same format there I find that the gap seals alone are on the order of 3 times the amount of drag reduction than on the Arrow. I still have to add in the flap hinge fairings too! Now the Arrow included fuel tank screw fairings, wheel well fairings, flap gap seals, aileron gap seals, and flap hinge fairings! I figure our flap hinge fairings will add slightly more to the above number. Now this is all assuming that I ran the numbers right. Even then it's still just a theoretical value and until tested we can't be sure that we'll get this much even. Although the actual results could be way more as well. Just for reference the Arrow experiment gained 2.5% speed at 75% cruise at 6,500 feet and about 5.5% range. If we apply that to the Lightning we'd get about a 5mph increase in cruise at 75% throttle. I still believe that the actual results will be 8mph or more though. Even though these are just estimates the numbers seem promising. More to come. Brian W. _________________________________________________________________ Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy AwardsR http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2


    Message 11


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:34:47 PM PST US
    From: "Brian Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
    Subject: website
    Scotty, Not a problem, that is why I keep the pics myself! I actually have my own website with lots of aviation pics and info at http://www.hangardays.com/ if you're interested. I haven't paid for the site in a couple of years and haven't updated it. This was also before I got my nice digi cam. Wish I had more time to keep it up and running. There's mostly warbirds and stuff on there. I have enough to new pics to probably triple the size of the site, but not enough time to do it. I transferred the whole site to a new one a few years back and it takes a lot of work and time to get it all back up and working right. Brian W. From: "Scotty" <mr.scotty@earthlink.net> Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Lightning exterior pics Brian, Thanks for all the photos. It keeps the drool factor up real high. -------- Scotty He who doesn't read the news is UN-informed. He who reads the news is IL-informed. Mark Twain Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90487#90487 _________________________________________________________________ Valentines Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline


    Message 12


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:38:07 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    Subject: need a video
    Brian: If you need help with that let me know. I have Adobe Premier which works very well with titling, transitions, etc... I'd be willing to help if you need it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:21 PM Subject: Lightning-List: need a video <dashvii@hotmail.com> Maybe after my experiments are done we can get a little video on the internet. I've got a mini dvr cam that I plan to get in flight footage done. I also have some editing software. Perhaps Pete and Nick and I can get together and map out a plan of attack for a downloadable video on the website for marketing purposes. Maybe a few manuevers, set to music, cockpit cam, external mounted cam shots, on the ground shots. Already talked to Nick about hooking up a bullet cam to some external source. Got some ideas for a video based on other aircraft vids. What do you guys and gals think? Brian W. _________________________________________________________________ >From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy AwardsR http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1


    Message 13


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:44:46 PM PST US
    From: "Brian Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
    Subject: prelim drag reduction
    Jim, Well, we won't be sure until we actually do the flight testing, but I can tell you what I think will or could happen and why. In some applications the flap and aileron gap seals increase speed, range, endurance, rate of climb, rate of roll. Those are all good things in my book. It also can increase stall speed and landing roll, those would be undesirable things. Now the reason that it would increase stall speed is because in some aircraft there is a slot which allows air to pass through the wing and reenergizes the boundary layer on the top side. It particularly does this at higher angles of attack. Now on the Lightning the top of the flap is tightly sealed inside the wing and so it is my belief that in a clean or flaps up configuration that we'll see no increase in stall speed. So that leaves the question of a stall in the dirty configuration. I believe that we will see an increase in stall speed here. I think that most of the time it is about 1-2mph. So it's not like you'd have to come over the fence 10mph faster. The landing roll is increased because the lift is increased and the drag is decreased, so it takes a little more to get it slowed and stopped. Again it's usally like 3% or something. 3% of what is it 500 feet is, well, it's not very much. I'll have to of course verify this experimentally to see what the real numbers are. Sometimes in these kinds of things you think one thing and something totally different is what you see, then you have to figure out why. We'll see. Brian W. From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com> Subject: RE: Lightning-List: prelim drag reduction Cool information Brian. What kind of affect does drag reduction have on the stall speed? -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:42 PM Subject: Lightning-List: prelim drag reduction <dashvii@hotmail.com> I've ran some preliminary numbers, which are mainly just theoretical guestimates of a sort. The only thing that I didn't know was what the exact amount of surface area for the lightning was. I used a Lancair 320's surface area in it's place as I figure they're about the same size. That gave me a reduction of about 11% frontal area by using the gap seals alone! Now independent of those numbers I have a similar experiment that I know that was done using a Piper Arrow II. Following the same format there I find that the gap seals alone are on the order of 3 times the amount of drag reduction than on the Arrow. I still have to add in the flap hinge fairings too! Now the Arrow included fuel tank screw fairings, wheel well fairings, flap gap seals, aileron gap seals, and flap hinge fairings! I figure our flap hinge fairings will add slightly more to the above number. Now this is all assuming that I ran the numbers right. Even then it's still just a theoretical value and until tested we can't be sure that we'll get this much even. Although the actual results could be way more as well. Just for reference the Arrow experiment gained 2.5% speed at 75% cruise at 6,500 feet and about 5.5% range. If we apply that to the Lightning we'd get about a 5mph increase in cruise at 75% throttle. I still believe that the actual results will be 8mph or more though. Even though these are just estimates the numbers seem promising. More to come. Brian W. _________________________________________________________________ Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy AwardsR http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2 _________________________________________________________________ Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger


    Message 14


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:50:27 PM PST US
    From: "Brian Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
    Subject: need a video
    We might have to get together on that and use some different software and such and get something put together. I'm going to record all of my flight tests, plus I'll need probably an hour of getting back proficient at flying the aircraft before I start, so I probably will do some chandelles and steep turns etc. Also for the first time ever we can get a real process and hard number on what the exact rate of roll is for the plane. If you really put it all the way over it is quick. My little black box will tell us exactly what the roll is in any given second. Also will give us Angle of attack info which can be used to get an idea of what the exact coefficients of lift are at different angles of attack. Just some really cool stuff. I hope to get a little time with just me, the box, and the plane after these experiments to get some data that was recorded by hand, and by various people reflown with the recorded data which can be replayed later. I'll have to see if I can post a screenshot or two of some of this after the fact. Technology is getting cheaper and more amazing everyday! Brian W. From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com> Subject: RE: Lightning-List: need a video Brian: If you need help with that let me know. I have Adobe Premier which works very well with titling, transitions, etc... I'd be willing to help if you need it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:21 PM Subject: Lightning-List: need a video <dashvii@hotmail.com> Maybe after my experiments are done we can get a little video on the internet. I've got a mini dvr cam that I plan to get in flight footage done. I also have some editing software. Perhaps Pete and Nick and I can get together and map out a plan of attack for a downloadable video on the website for marketing purposes. Maybe a few manuevers, set to music, cockpit cam, external mounted cam shots, on the ground shots. Already talked to Nick about hooking up a bullet cam to some external source. Got some ideas for a video based on other aircraft vids. What do you guys and gals think? Brian W. _________________________________________________________________ >From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy AwardsR http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1 _________________________________________________________________ Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2


    Message 15


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:58:36 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    Subject: need a video
    Are you going to be at Sun n Fun this year? I will be looking for the Lightning crew to talk shop. We could talk about the video then unless you want to do this sooner. Jim! -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:50 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: need a video <dashvii@hotmail.com> We might have to get together on that and use some different software and such and get something put together. I'm going to record all of my flight tests, plus I'll need probably an hour of getting back proficient at flying the aircraft before I start, so I probably will do some chandelles and steep turns etc. Also for the first time ever we can get a real process and hard number on what the exact rate of roll is for the plane. If you really put it all the way over it is quick. My little black box will tell us exactly what the roll is in any given second. Also will give us Angle of attack info which can be used to get an idea of what the exact coefficients of lift are at different angles of attack. Just some really cool stuff. I hope to get a little time with just me, the box, and the plane after these experiments to get some data that was recorded by hand, and by various people reflown with the recorded data which can be replayed later. I'll have to see if I can post a screenshot or two of some of this after the fact. Technology is getting cheaper and more amazing everyday! Brian W. From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com> Subject: RE: Lightning-List: need a video Brian: If you need help with that let me know. I have Adobe Premier which works very well with titling, transitions, etc... I'd be willing to help if you need it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:21 PM Subject: Lightning-List: need a video <dashvii@hotmail.com> Maybe after my experiments are done we can get a little video on the internet. I've got a mini dvr cam that I plan to get in flight footage done. I also have some editing software. Perhaps Pete and Nick and I can get together and map out a plan of attack for a downloadable video on the website for marketing purposes. Maybe a few manuevers, set to music, cockpit cam, external mounted cam shots, on the ground shots. Already talked to Nick about hooking up a bullet cam to some external source. Got some ideas for a video based on other aircraft vids. What do you guys and gals think? Brian W. _________________________________________________________________ >From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy AwardsR http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1 _________________________________________________________________ Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy AwardsR http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2


    Message 16


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:22:12 PM PST US
    From: "Brian Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
    Subject: need a video
    Jim, Not sure if I'll be there or not. The guys haven't asked me to fly down and I will probably be moving to Houston before then, so I'll be quiet a ways from SYI. I have to get the work done on the speed mod experiment in the short order, but I would think that I could get several hours of video and piece something together. I was thinking about what shots I would like to see. One of the best (in my opinion) that I have seen was with the Berkut. I don't really care for the music, but oh well. http://www.berkut13.com/berkut56.htm Click on the top link, labeled bird with an attitude, I had thought about buying one of these but decided to go to college instead. I know, I made the right decision, but this would've been fun! Video like this would require some air-2-air work, some on the ground shots, and some in cockpit, etc. I think that it is entirely doable though. It's a shame, the pilot in the video blacked out in about an 8G turn at an airshow and died. The company never recovered. See what you think. Brian W. From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com> Subject: RE: Lightning-List: need a video Are you going to be at Sun n Fun this year? I will be looking for the Lightning crew to talk shop. We could talk about the video then unless you want to do this sooner. Jim! -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:50 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: need a video <dashvii@hotmail.com> We might have to get together on that and use some different software and such and get something put together. I'm going to record all of my flight tests, plus I'll need probably an hour of getting back proficient at flying the aircraft before I start, so I probably will do some chandelles and steep turns etc. Also for the first time ever we can get a real process and hard number on what the exact rate of roll is for the plane. If you really put it all the way over it is quick. My little black box will tell us exactly what the roll is in any given second. Also will give us Angle of attack info which can be used to get an idea of what the exact coefficients of lift are at different angles of attack. Just some really cool stuff. I hope to get a little time with just me, the box, and the plane after these experiments to get some data that was recorded by hand, and by various people reflown with the recorded data which can be replayed later. I'll have to see if I can post a screenshot or two of some of this after the fact. Technology is getting cheaper and more amazing everyday! Brian W. From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com> Subject: RE: Lightning-List: need a video Brian: If you need help with that let me know. I have Adobe Premier which works very well with titling, transitions, etc... I'd be willing to help if you need it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:21 PM Subject: Lightning-List: need a video <dashvii@hotmail.com> Maybe after my experiments are done we can get a little video on the internet. I've got a mini dvr cam that I plan to get in flight footage done. I also have some editing software. Perhaps Pete and Nick and I can get together and map out a plan of attack for a downloadable video on the website for marketing purposes. Maybe a few manuevers, set to music, cockpit cam, external mounted cam shots, on the ground shots. Already talked to Nick about hooking up a bullet cam to some external source. Got some ideas for a video based on other aircraft vids. What do you guys and gals think? Brian W. _________________________________________________________________ >From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy AwardsR http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1 _________________________________________________________________ Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy AwardsR http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2 _________________________________________________________________ Get Hilary Duffs homepage with her photos, music, and more. http://celebrities.live.com&ocid=T001MSN30A0701




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   lightning-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list
  • Browse Lightning-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --