Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:35 AM - build assist you asked about (nick otterback)
2. 02:33 PM - Re: need a video (Peter and Jan Disher)
3. 02:58 PM - Re: need a video (nick otterback)
4. 03:06 PM - N155LT Flys Home! (nick otterback)
5. 03:09 PM - Re: need a video (Peter and Jan Disher)
6. 03:12 PM - Re: need a video (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
7. 05:51 PM - Re: need a video (Brian Whittingham)
8. 08:32 PM - Lightning Costs, performance (EAFerguson@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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| Subject: | build assist you asked about |
Dan
There is no cost, just more of an understanding that we will work with you and
your schedule to get the aircraft finished in a timely fashion.....now that
typically mean 6-8 weeks between structure week and the 2 finish up weeks to
do paint and pre wire, order instruments ect......Than when the aircraft has had
its inspection and is flyable no more than 60 days before it leaves here and
if we have to than we'll discuss rent.
I will usually do the first few flights on the new bird, that i do for education
mostly and do not charge if done here. We have several commercial pilots here
that you can hire for what ever they charge to fly of the hours for you, they
are not directly affilated but are proficient in our aircraft.... i would
guess any where from 15-20 an hour and at least 35 hours worth...
The interior that was done for Buz was done by B+B and is being done in the lightning
with the same great results...
And as far as the landing video thats just traing for you......letting the stick
go after touch down in a piper or a cessena is ok you can get away with it
in a heavy bird.. but not in a sport aircraft that is much lighter......
Nick
Nick or Pete...a few questons:
Is there any cost for storage of the kit/airplane at your facility between builder-assist
weeks?
How long could a builder keep the kit with you guys between builder-assist weeks
before you guys get uncomfortable?
What would be an estimated cost to have your staff do the test flying, rigging
adjustments, and fly off the initial 40 hours on a newly built Lightning?
Is interior upholstery similar to Buzz's Esqual LS interior available for the Lightning?
Finally...I was watching the video of Brian's landing in Gregg Hobbs airplane on
the web site. It's a little fuzzy, but if I'm not mistaken it looks like (after
the mains bounced once) the nose gear comes down and then bounces up before
coming down a second time. This leads to a question: How is the elevator
authority on runout? Is it sufficient to allow the nose to be held off briefly...and
then lowered gently to the runway? Not trying to be critical...just want
to be assured that the weight differential between the main gear and the nosewheel
has been optimized.
Thanks...
Dan
nick otterback <vettin74@yahoo.com> wrote: It is true that a builder who built
the plane themselves with out the Build assist the cost would be about this
for a good VFR aircraft: $33,900 kit, $14,900 jabiru 6 cyl,
$800 W64ZK56 prop, $850 speed kit, $5000 paint, $2800 GRT sport, $900 EIS6000,
$3100 Becker Radio/ Transponder combo, $200 PM501 intercom, $3000 interior,
and maybe an extra $1000 for all the little odds and ends, and you still are at
about $61,450 and those are rounded up numbers. Now if you add $3,000 per
week of build assist , 3 weeks worth , a Panel pre-wire from us $1,200, and a
custom panel face from us $600 than you might be at $72,250 so it depends if
you want to build your self ...or come build with us......either way you will
have a great flying aircraft.
Nick
IFLYSMODEL@aol.com wrote:
Great answers Buzz: The insurance costs you quote are right in line with
what it costs me to insure the Bonanza. Jim, it may pay you to check with
someone besides Falcon. I found about 10 years ago that other agents may be several
hundred dollars cheaper (and still are)
Buzz, I was told at the Expo in Sebring that one could put a Lightning together
for about
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: need a video |
Att, Brian W.,
Such a good idea, Brian, Film aerobatic type maneuvers of say two Lightning
a/c's in time with the tune of (TT) Tina Turner' s song " Simply The
Best" and run it front page of Lightning's
web site, They will sell a million.
Good luck,
Peter Disher (still awaiting my kit Pleaseee hurry)
Hallidays Point
SYDNEY
AUSTRALIA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:21 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: need a video
> <dashvii@hotmail.com>
>
> Maybe after my experiments are done we can get a little video on the
> internet. I've got a mini dvr cam that I plan to get in flight footage
> done. I also have some editing software. Perhaps Pete and Nick and I can
> get together and map out a plan of attack for a downloadable video on the
> website for marketing purposes. Maybe a few manuevers, set to music,
> cockpit cam, external mounted cam shots, on the ground shots. Already
> talked to Nick about hooking up a bullet cam to some external source. Got
> some ideas for a video based on other aircraft vids. What do you guys and
> gals think? Brian W.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>>From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the
> Academy Awards
> http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1
>
>
> --
> 25/01/2007 3:32 PM
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: need a video |
Pete
The kits been on the boat for a bit now along with you sweat shirt and tape measure......we
used both a bit!
Nick
Peter and Jan Disher <pjdisher@bigpond.com> wrote:
Att, Brian W.,
Such a good idea, Brian, Film aerobatic type maneuvers of say two Lightning
a/c's in time with the tune of (TT) Tina Turner' s song " Simply The
Best" and run it front page of Lightning's
web site, They will sell a million.
Good luck,
Peter Disher (still awaiting my kit Pleaseee hurry)
Hallidays Point
SYDNEY
AUSTRALIA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Whittingham"
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:21 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: need a video
>
>
> Maybe after my experiments are done we can get a little video on the
> internet. I've got a mini dvr cam that I plan to get in flight footage
> done. I also have some editing software. Perhaps Pete and Nick and I can
> get together and map out a plan of attack for a downloadable video on the
> website for marketing purposes. Maybe a few manuevers, set to music,
> cockpit cam, external mounted cam shots, on the ground shots. Already
> talked to Nick about hooking up a bullet cam to some external source. Got
> some ideas for a video based on other aircraft vids. What do you guys and
> gals think? Brian W.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>>From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the
> Academy Awards
> http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1
>
>
> --
> 25/01/2007 3:32 PM
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | N155LT Flys Home! |
Lightning Group...
N155LT has flown home to roost....Home that is in Crossville TN....John Davis
reported a good flight home with no poblems and a good flying aircraft...i don't
know if hes on this chat group but i will see if he will sign up to give on
going reports.....Lindas Aircraft is coming together nicely and should be inspected
next Thrusday with a first flight soon after....
Nick
Arion Aircraft
Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63@yahoo.com> wrote:
Brian...
Thanks for the pix. This is the kind of thing Arion needs to put forth for those
of us considering the Lightning.
When you get around to it I'd like some clear views of the finished baggage area
(particularly the floor behind the seats) of 155LT.
Also...the Lightning with yellow trim waaaaay in the back of the third photo looks
like it just might be a beauty.
Dan
Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com> wrote: Ask and ye shall recieve:
These are pics of the John Davis bird. Just took them today. This is the
latest flier. I'll give you the phototour of the cockpits and planes in
future emails, but this is the first installment. Love the stick grips!
The interior matches the paint of the aircraft. This interior is actually
pretty different than the Hobbs plane which was all cloth and kind of
different shaped. That plane was more like the prototype interior. Enjoy.
Brian W.
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: need a video |
Hi Nick,
Many thanks, Obsolutely Great, I'll have a drink on that.
Sounds like all is going well.
Regards'
Pete Disher
----- Original Message -----
From: nick otterback
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: need a video
Pete
The kits been on the boat for a bit now along with you sweat shirt and
tape measure......we used both a bit!
Nick
Peter and Jan Disher <pjdisher@bigpond.com> wrote:
Att, Brian W.,
Such a good idea, Brian, Film aerobatic type maneuvers of say two
Lightning
a/c's in time with the tune of (TT) Tina Turner' s song " Simply The
Best" and run it front page of Lightning's
web site, They will sell a million.
Good luck,
Peter Disher (still awaiting my kit Pleaseee hurry)
Hallidays Point
SYDNEY
AUSTRALIA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Whittingham"
To:
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:21 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: need a video
>
>
> Maybe after my experiments are done we can get a little video on
the
> internet. I've got a mini dvr cam that I plan to get in flight
footage
> done. I also have some editing software. Perhaps Pete and Nick and
I can
> get together and map out a plan of attack for a downloadable video
on the
> website for marketing purposes. Maybe a few manuevers, set to
music,
> cockpit cam, external mounted cam shots, on the ground shots.
Already
> talked to Nick about hooking up a bullet cam to some external
source. Got
> some ideas for a video based on other aircraft vids. What do you
guys and
> gals think? Brian W.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>>From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
26/01/2007 11:11 AM
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: need a video |
Nick, The next time I am out there (end of next week), I would be happy to
be the video platform if you want to get some action shots (I will fly the
video-grapher in 31BZ). Besides the normal close formation that you and I
normally fly, I can get in close trail and film you flying whatever maneuvers
you
want filmed. It might also be good to get some fingertip formation video of
two Lightnings in flight - video from the ground with you and I flying
Lightnings on a low pass down the runway.
Buz
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: need a video |
Buz,
This is Brian.
My computer crashed and I lost my thesis information.
Do you still have the email I sent you yesterday?
If you do, please email it back to me!
From: N1BZRich@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: need a video
Nick, The next time I am out there (end of next week), I would be happy to
be the video platform if you want to get some action shots (I will fly the
video-grapher in 31BZ). Besides the normal close formation that you and I
normally fly, I can get in close trail and film you flying whatever
maneuvers you
want filmed. It might also be good to get some fingertip formation video
of
two Lightnings in flight - video from the ground with you and I flying
Lightnings on a low pass down the runway.
Buz
_________________________________________________________________
Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy
Awards http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2
Message 8
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| Subject: | Lightning Costs, performance |
With all the questions flying on the Lightning List, I'm way behind in
posting information on N17EF. Here are some answers regarding my LSA Lightning.
Cost. I used the factory build program - two weeks in Shelbyville. In
addition, I spent probably another two weeks there one or two days at a time. I
live in Atlanta, 3 hours drive away.
Since I'm flying under Light Sport rules, I don't have the gear clean up
stuff, and expense. I have a single GRT Horizon EFIS with installed GPS (not the
Sport version) and a GRT EIS. I also elected to install a regular Nav/Com
with Glide Scope, but no indicator - the EFIS will provide that. Ground
adjustable prop. Jabiru 3300.Full lighting and strobes. No interior or autopilot
yet.
My intent is to have an IFR certifiable A/C if I get my medical back. I
should have installed a heated pitot, which I will have to install later to be
IFR legal.
All that cost about $65,000, exclusive of several hundred $$ spent for
accommodations, meals and travel expenses. Note that some costs have increased
since I started. The kit has gone up some I'm not sure about the amount). GRT
charges more for the EFIS - mine was $5900+/-. So allow $70,000 to build one
similar to mine. Add about $2500 for the interior. An autopilot would be nice
to have. I don't have A/P cost data, but Buz has posted that here earlier.
Those interested in Light Sport should be aware that most of the performance
numbers being quoted are for non-LSA versions. Since we have to leave the
gear clean-up off, and are limited on prop pitch by the FAA 120K limit. we
won't be seeing the airspeeds that BUZ and others are reporting. Also, because
of
the higher drag, you will get higher fuel consumption. I'm collecting fuel
burn data now, and will post something when I get more points plotted.
Preliminary results are for around 5GPH at 2750 rpm. Above 2850, the fuel burn
goes
up rapidly. Stay tuned for numbers at higher speeds.
To make the LSA stall speed, I had to use the vortex generators. Nick will
confirm that I resisted that to the bitter end, finally installed them to make
the 45K clean stall requirement. Be aware that the low speed handling is
different with the VGs. Control doesn't get mushy at low speeds. As a result
there is not much stall warning before the nose falls through. Something to
avoid on landings. Unless John Davis has installed VGs I thing I'm the only
Lightning flying with them. I've suggested to Nick that the VGs should be omitted
for 18" to 24" out from the fuselage so the wing root stalls first, and
hopefully provides some early stall indication.
Some of the questions were about the necessity for the factory builder
assistance. In my case there wasn't much choice. I had never built an aircraft
before, and just didn't know the necessary details. I'm also close enough to
Shelbyville to run up there with problems and questions.
Finally, the folks in the Shelbyville hanger have been absolutely great to
deal with. I don't know the people at the other build centers well, but those I
have met seem very competent.
Enough for now!
Earl Ferguson
N17EF at FTY (Atlanta)
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