---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/26/07: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:35 AM - build assist you asked about (nick otterback) 2. 02:33 PM - Re: need a video (Peter and Jan Disher) 3. 02:58 PM - Re: need a video (nick otterback) 4. 03:06 PM - N155LT Flys Home! (nick otterback) 5. 03:09 PM - Re: need a video (Peter and Jan Disher) 6. 03:12 PM - Re: need a video (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 7. 05:51 PM - Re: need a video (Brian Whittingham) 8. 08:32 PM - Lightning Costs, performance (EAFerguson@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:32 AM PST US From: nick otterback Subject: Lightning-List: build assist you asked about Dan There is no cost, just more of an understanding that we will work with you and your schedule to get the aircraft finished in a timely fashion.....now that typically mean 6-8 weeks between structure week and the 2 finish up weeks to do paint and pre wire, order instruments ect......Than when the aircraft has had its inspection and is flyable no more than 60 days before it leaves here and if we have to than we'll discuss rent. I will usually do the first few flights on the new bird, that i do for education mostly and do not charge if done here. We have several commercial pilots here that you can hire for what ever they charge to fly of the hours for you, they are not directly affilated but are proficient in our aircraft.... i would guess any where from 15-20 an hour and at least 35 hours worth... The interior that was done for Buz was done by B+B and is being done in the lightning with the same great results... And as far as the landing video thats just traing for you......letting the stick go after touch down in a piper or a cessena is ok you can get away with it in a heavy bird.. but not in a sport aircraft that is much lighter...... Nick Nick or Pete...a few questons: Is there any cost for storage of the kit/airplane at your facility between builder-assist weeks? How long could a builder keep the kit with you guys between builder-assist weeks before you guys get uncomfortable? What would be an estimated cost to have your staff do the test flying, rigging adjustments, and fly off the initial 40 hours on a newly built Lightning? Is interior upholstery similar to Buzz's Esqual LS interior available for the Lightning? Finally...I was watching the video of Brian's landing in Gregg Hobbs airplane on the web site. It's a little fuzzy, but if I'm not mistaken it looks like (after the mains bounced once) the nose gear comes down and then bounces up before coming down a second time. This leads to a question: How is the elevator authority on runout? Is it sufficient to allow the nose to be held off briefly...and then lowered gently to the runway? Not trying to be critical...just want to be assured that the weight differential between the main gear and the nosewheel has been optimized. Thanks... Dan nick otterback wrote: It is true that a builder who built the plane themselves with out the Build assist the cost would be about this for a good VFR aircraft: $33,900 kit, $14,900 jabiru 6 cyl, $800 W64ZK56 prop, $850 speed kit, $5000 paint, $2800 GRT sport, $900 EIS6000, $3100 Becker Radio/ Transponder combo, $200 PM501 intercom, $3000 interior, and maybe an extra $1000 for all the little odds and ends, and you still are at about $61,450 and those are rounded up numbers. Now if you add $3,000 per week of build assist , 3 weeks worth , a Panel pre-wire from us $1,200, and a custom panel face from us $600 than you might be at $72,250 so it depends if you want to build your self ...or come build with us......either way you will have a great flying aircraft. Nick IFLYSMODEL@aol.com wrote: Great answers Buzz: The insurance costs you quote are right in line with what it costs me to insure the Bonanza. Jim, it may pay you to check with someone besides Falcon. I found about 10 years ago that other agents may be several hundred dollars cheaper (and still are) Buzz, I was told at the Expo in Sebring that one could put a Lightning together for about --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. --------------------------------- Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:09 PM PST US From: "Peter and Jan Disher" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: need a video Att, Brian W., Such a good idea, Brian, Film aerobatic type maneuvers of say two Lightning a/c's in time with the tune of (TT) Tina Turner' s song " Simply The Best" and run it front page of Lightning's web site, They will sell a million. Good luck, Peter Disher (still awaiting my kit Pleaseee hurry) Hallidays Point SYDNEY AUSTRALIA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Whittingham" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Lightning-List: need a video > > > Maybe after my experiments are done we can get a little video on the > internet. I've got a mini dvr cam that I plan to get in flight footage > done. I also have some editing software. Perhaps Pete and Nick and I can > get together and map out a plan of attack for a downloadable video on the > website for marketing purposes. Maybe a few manuevers, set to music, > cockpit cam, external mounted cam shots, on the ground shots. Already > talked to Nick about hooking up a bullet cam to some external source. Got > some ideas for a video based on other aircraft vids. What do you guys and > gals think? Brian W. > > _________________________________________________________________ >>From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the > Academy Awards > http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1 > > > -- > 25/01/2007 3:32 PM > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:58:27 PM PST US From: nick otterback Subject: Re: Lightning-List: need a video Pete The kits been on the boat for a bit now along with you sweat shirt and tape measure......we used both a bit! Nick Peter and Jan Disher wrote: Att, Brian W., Such a good idea, Brian, Film aerobatic type maneuvers of say two Lightning a/c's in time with the tune of (TT) Tina Turner' s song " Simply The Best" and run it front page of Lightning's web site, They will sell a million. Good luck, Peter Disher (still awaiting my kit Pleaseee hurry) Hallidays Point SYDNEY AUSTRALIA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Whittingham" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Lightning-List: need a video > > > Maybe after my experiments are done we can get a little video on the > internet. I've got a mini dvr cam that I plan to get in flight footage > done. I also have some editing software. Perhaps Pete and Nick and I can > get together and map out a plan of attack for a downloadable video on the > website for marketing purposes. Maybe a few manuevers, set to music, > cockpit cam, external mounted cam shots, on the ground shots. Already > talked to Nick about hooking up a bullet cam to some external source. Got > some ideas for a video based on other aircraft vids. What do you guys and > gals think? Brian W. > > _________________________________________________________________ >>From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the > Academy Awards > http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1 > > > -- > 25/01/2007 3:32 PM > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:24 PM PST US From: nick otterback Subject: Lightning-List: N155LT Flys Home! Lightning Group... N155LT has flown home to roost....Home that is in Crossville TN....John Davis reported a good flight home with no poblems and a good flying aircraft...i don't know if hes on this chat group but i will see if he will sign up to give on going reports.....Lindas Aircraft is coming together nicely and should be inspected next Thrusday with a first flight soon after.... Nick Arion Aircraft Daniel Vandenberg wrote: Brian... Thanks for the pix. This is the kind of thing Arion needs to put forth for those of us considering the Lightning. When you get around to it I'd like some clear views of the finished baggage area (particularly the floor behind the seats) of 155LT. Also...the Lightning with yellow trim waaaaay in the back of the third photo looks like it just might be a beauty. Dan Brian Whittingham wrote: Ask and ye shall recieve: These are pics of the John Davis bird. Just took them today. This is the latest flier. I'll give you the phototour of the cockpits and planes in future emails, but this is the first installment. Love the stick grips! The interior matches the paint of the aircraft. This interior is actually pretty different than the Hobbs plane which was all cloth and kind of different shaped. That plane was more like the prototype interior. Enjoy. Brian W. _________________________________________________________________ Get Hilary Duffs homepage with her photos, music, and more. http://celebrities.live.com --------------------------------- Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:09:39 PM PST US From: "Peter and Jan Disher" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: need a video Hi Nick, Many thanks, Obsolutely Great, I'll have a drink on that. Sounds like all is going well. Regards' Pete Disher ----- Original Message ----- From: nick otterback To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:58 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: need a video Pete The kits been on the boat for a bit now along with you sweat shirt and tape measure......we used both a bit! Nick Peter and Jan Disher wrote: Att, Brian W., Such a good idea, Brian, Film aerobatic type maneuvers of say two Lightning a/c's in time with the tune of (TT) Tina Turner' s song " Simply The Best" and run it front page of Lightning's web site, They will sell a million. Good luck, Peter Disher (still awaiting my kit Pleaseee hurry) Hallidays Point SYDNEY AUSTRALIA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Whittingham" To: Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Lightning-List: need a video > > > Maybe after my experiments are done we can get a little video on the > internet. I've got a mini dvr cam that I plan to get in flight footage > done. I also have some editing software. Perhaps Pete and Nick and I can > get together and map out a plan of attack for a downloadable video on the > website for marketing purposes. Maybe a few manuevers, set to music, > cockpit cam, external mounted cam shots, on the ground shots. Already > talked to Nick about hooking up a bullet cam to some external source. Got > some ideas for a video based on other aircraft vids. What do you guys and > gals think? Brian W. > > _________________________________________________________________ >>From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 26/01/2007 11:11 AM ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:33 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: need a video Nick, The next time I am out there (end of next week), I would be happy to be the video platform if you want to get some action shots (I will fly the video-grapher in 31BZ). Besides the normal close formation that you and I normally fly, I can get in close trail and film you flying whatever maneuvers you want filmed. It might also be good to get some fingertip formation video of two Lightnings in flight - video from the ground with you and I flying Lightnings on a low pass down the runway. Buz ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:48 PM PST US From: "Brian Whittingham" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: need a video Buz, This is Brian. My computer crashed and I lost my thesis information. Do you still have the email I sent you yesterday? If you do, please email it back to me! From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: need a video Nick, The next time I am out there (end of next week), I would be happy to be the video platform if you want to get some action shots (I will fly the video-grapher in 31BZ). Besides the normal close formation that you and I normally fly, I can get in close trail and film you flying whatever maneuvers you want filmed. It might also be good to get some fingertip formation video of two Lightnings in flight - video from the ground with you and I flying Lightnings on a low pass down the runway. Buz _________________________________________________________________ Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:17 PM PST US From: EAFerguson@AOL.COM Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning Costs, performance With all the questions flying on the Lightning List, I'm way behind in posting information on N17EF. Here are some answers regarding my LSA Lightning. Cost. I used the factory build program - two weeks in Shelbyville. In addition, I spent probably another two weeks there one or two days at a time. I live in Atlanta, 3 hours drive away. Since I'm flying under Light Sport rules, I don't have the gear clean up stuff, and expense. I have a single GRT Horizon EFIS with installed GPS (not the Sport version) and a GRT EIS. I also elected to install a regular Nav/Com with Glide Scope, but no indicator - the EFIS will provide that. Ground adjustable prop. Jabiru 3300.Full lighting and strobes. No interior or autopilot yet. My intent is to have an IFR certifiable A/C if I get my medical back. I should have installed a heated pitot, which I will have to install later to be IFR legal. All that cost about $65,000, exclusive of several hundred $$ spent for accommodations, meals and travel expenses. Note that some costs have increased since I started. The kit has gone up some I'm not sure about the amount). GRT charges more for the EFIS - mine was $5900+/-. So allow $70,000 to build one similar to mine. Add about $2500 for the interior. An autopilot would be nice to have. I don't have A/P cost data, but Buz has posted that here earlier. Those interested in Light Sport should be aware that most of the performance numbers being quoted are for non-LSA versions. Since we have to leave the gear clean-up off, and are limited on prop pitch by the FAA 120K limit. we won't be seeing the airspeeds that BUZ and others are reporting. Also, because of the higher drag, you will get higher fuel consumption. I'm collecting fuel burn data now, and will post something when I get more points plotted. Preliminary results are for around 5GPH at 2750 rpm. Above 2850, the fuel burn goes up rapidly. Stay tuned for numbers at higher speeds. To make the LSA stall speed, I had to use the vortex generators. Nick will confirm that I resisted that to the bitter end, finally installed them to make the 45K clean stall requirement. Be aware that the low speed handling is different with the VGs. Control doesn't get mushy at low speeds. As a result there is not much stall warning before the nose falls through. Something to avoid on landings. Unless John Davis has installed VGs I thing I'm the only Lightning flying with them. I've suggested to Nick that the VGs should be omitted for 18" to 24" out from the fuselage so the wing root stalls first, and hopefully provides some early stall indication. Some of the questions were about the necessity for the factory builder assistance. In my case there wasn't much choice. I had never built an aircraft before, and just didn't know the necessary details. I'm also close enough to Shelbyville to run up there with problems and questions. Finally, the folks in the Shelbyville hanger have been absolutely great to deal with. I don't know the people at the other build centers well, but those I have met seem very competent. Enough for now! Earl Ferguson N17EF at FTY (Atlanta) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.