Lightning-List Digest Archive

Sun 03/11/07


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:55 AM - Re: Four Seater (Kayberg@AOL.COM)
     2. 06:47 AM - Re: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model?? (Dave)
     3. 06:58 AM - Re: Auto pilot servos (Dave)
     4. 07:22 AM - Re: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model?? (Dave)
     5. 07:24 AM - Re: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model?? (Rick Bowen)
     6. 07:26 AM - Re: Auto pilot servos (Jim Langley)
     7. 10:47 AM - Re: Auto pilot servos (N1BZRich@aol.com)
     8. 10:51 AM - Re: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model?? (N1BZRich@aol.com)
     9. 11:11 AM - Re: Four Seater (N1BZRich@aol.com)
    10. 12:51 PM - Re: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model?? (Rick Bowen)
    11. 02:08 PM - Re: Four Seater (Miguel Maia de Loureiro)
    12. 02:09 PM - Re: Lightning Demo Panel (Miguel Maia de Loureiro)
    13. 05:48 PM - Re: Four Seater (pdukor1@tampabay.rr.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:55:05 AM PST US
    From: Kayberg@AOL.COM
    Subject: Re: Four Seater
    For some reason I am feeling thoughtful this morning, however the 5th cup of coffee is still in my cup. To me the clearest truth about the Lightning is that it optimises the 3300 Jabiru engine with the lightest, most aerodynamic airframe in the simpleist build manner on the market today. If you consider going to a 4 seater, you have to redo all of that statement for a limited market. You need a different engine that will still be lighter than any alternitives, be well proven and affordable. There isnt one. Yes, I know about the 8 cyl Jabiru, rotaries, blah, blah, blah. But the only proven engines in the 150- 250 hp range are Lycoming or Continental. And they are too damn heavy. Yes I know about the Subaru based ones. Too expensive and too heavy.... not to mention too complicated. And the big Jab is unproven. If you want to revise the airframe, you start by adding a longer nose and a longer tail and heavier everything else. Bigger wings, bigger tail, bigger gear and bigger tanks. That means heavier and more expensive. Much more expensive. The Lightning costs about $75 a pound completely built. I would expect a 4 seater to weigh at least 250 lbs more, or $18,750. Realistically, I would think a 4 seat Lightning would cost just under $100,000. For less than half that amount, you could get a used Mooney M20-C and have the same performance in a prooven aircraft. The real clincher is mission profile. When is the last time you saw a 4 or more seat airplane depart your favorite strip with a full load? Or looking at it another way, dont most airplanes flying during afternoons and weekends only have one person in them ...unless they are training? Most of us are not Buz Rich. We dont have the mission profile that allows us to put 200 hours on a homebuilt airframe in less than a year AND fly the damn thing in head-bangin weather with a better instrument panel than he had when flying F-4s. I know, I know, we dream about it. But at some point, we have to face reality. The market for a homebuilt airplane with four seats is only slightly better than the market for flying cars. And the design requirements are only slightly easier. But if someone went to Nick, Pete, et al, with a check for 5 million dollars that they would be happy to never see again, then at least the first 1 or 2 could be built. Any takers? Doug Koenigsberg <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:47:08 AM PST US
    From: "Dave" <corky@hbci.com>
    Subject: Re: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model??
    Rick Yes, I am interested. Only two questions, how much and could he do one without the back window. Mine is an Esqual. Dave McC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Bowen" <rollnloop@hotmail.com> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 10:09 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model?? > > Folks, > I have been looking for someone who could do a Lightning wooden desk > model. > I found a guy who says if we can come up with 5 orders, he will do the > design for us. > His website is: > www.createaplane.com > > I have NOT done business with him, but he seems to do good work, and has > done many different aircraft...he will even do your own planes' paint > scheme! > > Check it out, if you think you may be interested, post and say > so...remember, we need a least 5 guys to commit for this place to do it. > Think it would be cool to have a "mini" version of my Lightning on my desk > at work! > > Rick > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find what you need at prices you'll love. Compare products and save at > MSN Shopping. > http://shopping.msn.com/default/shp/?ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24102&tcode=T001MSN20A0701 > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:58:31 AM PST US
    From: "Dave" <corky@hbci.com>
    Subject: Re: Auto pilot servos
    Buz The autopilot works great, it oscillates about 20 ft in pitch axis due to back pressure in static line. Should have that fixed today. Your photos helped, thanks. Could you send photos of your Klingon device, I think that will help with my bad landings. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 11:04 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Auto pilot servos Dave, I just noticed the auto pilot servos photo I sent does not show the push rods attached. The aileron servo push rod attaches directly to the bottom of the pilot's stick - where the left aileron push rod attaches. The pitch servo push rod attaches to the torque tube that connects both sticks in pitch. Easy and simple to install and works great. The TruTrak "head" allows you to adjust sensitivity. I have it optimized for cruise at altitude, so the ride down low can be bumpy with altitude hold on, but it works well. Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL 326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom" target="_blank">AOL.com.


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:22:32 AM PST US
    From: "Dave" <corky@hbci.com>
    Subject: Re: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model??
    Rick Dave again, they have Esqual wood models I just found on Ebay. 11 inch wing, plane weighs only .44 and is around $85. I like your guy more if he can match paint scheme ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" <corky@hbci.com> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 8:46 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model?? > > Rick > > Yes, I am interested. Only two questions, how much and could he do one > without the back window. Mine is an Esqual. > Dave McC > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Bowen" <rollnloop@hotmail.com> > To: <lightning-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 10:09 PM > Subject: Lightning-List: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model?? > > >> <rollnloop@hotmail.com> >> >> Folks, >> I have been looking for someone who could do a Lightning wooden desk >> model. >> I found a guy who says if we can come up with 5 orders, he will do the >> design for us. >> His website is: >> www.createaplane.com >> >> I have NOT done business with him, but he seems to do good work, and has >> done many different aircraft...he will even do your own planes' paint >> scheme! >> >> Check it out, if you think you may be interested, post and say >> so...remember, we need a least 5 guys to commit for this place to do it. >> Think it would be cool to have a "mini" version of my Lightning on my >> desk at work! >> >> Rick >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Find what you need at prices you'll love. Compare products and save at >> MSN Shopping. >> http://shopping.msn.com/default/shp/?ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24102&tcode=T001MSN20A0701 >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:24:09 AM PST US
    From: "Rick Bowen" <rollnloop@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model??
    Dave, Per his website, he charges 100.00 for a white, base model.He charges 125.00 to paint one in your own paint scheme. I personally don't see any problem with leaving out the rear windows to makes yours an Esqual....when we get the 5 commitments to buy, I'm sure we can work it out with him. Take a look at his web site...nice stuff! ... www.createaplane.com Rick _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro*Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:26:31 AM PST US
    From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    Subject: Auto pilot servos
    Here you go. Spock and Scotty were just setting it up.. Actually, this is the Romulan version. _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 9:57 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Auto pilot servos Buz The autopilot works great, it oscillates about 20 ft in pitch axis due to back pressure in static line. Should have that fixed today. Your photos helped, thanks. Could you send photos of your Klingon device, I think that will help with my bad landings. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 11:04 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Auto pilot servos Dave, I just noticed the auto pilot servos photo I sent does not show the push rods attached. The aileron servo push rod attaches directly to the bottom of the pilot's stick - where the left aileron push rod attaches. The pitch servo push rod attaches to the torque tube that connects both sticks in pitch. Easy and simple to install and works great. The TruTrak "head" allows you to adjust sensitivity. I have it optimized for cruise at altitude, so the ride down low can be bumpy with altitude hold on, but it works well. Buz _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL 326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom" target="_blank">AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:47:59 AM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Auto pilot servos
    Sure, Dave, photo of the Klingon cloaking device is below. Note the simple control switch. ON / OFF Klingon cloaking devise with switch in ON position. Hope this helps, Buz <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:51:31 AM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model??
    Rick, Count me in for a model with a N31BZ specific paint scheme - and no rear windows. Buz <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:11:30 AM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Four Seater
    In a message dated 3/11/2007 8:58:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Kayberg@aol.com writes: the clearest truth about the Lightning is that it optimises the 3300 Jabiru engine with the lightest, most aerodynamic airframe in the simpleist build manner on the market today. Well said, Doug. And that is the secret to the success of the Lightning design and performance capability. That, plus the builder's assist program that allows people who are either very busy, or who don't trust their own building abilities to complete and fly a homebuilt airplane. The Lightning team (and that includes you guys at Green "Acres") truly are making dreams come true. Keep up the excellent work! Buz <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.


    Message 10


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    Time: 12:51:36 PM PST US
    From: "Rick Bowen" <rollnloop@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model??
    OK Buz...your counted! Rick >From: N1BZRich@aol.com >To: lightning-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Anybody want a "Lightning" desktop model?? >Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 13:49:03 EDT > >Rick, >Count me in for a model with a N31BZ specific paint scheme - and no rear >windows. >Buz _________________________________________________________________ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE. http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:08:11 PM PST US
    From: "Miguel Maia de Loureiro" <ultralight.flyer@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Four Seater
    4 seater... see, J400 series, or even MCR 4... In Portugal "we" bilt more than 100 MCR's per year for entire Europe. Dyn Aero is very interested in J3300 engine, so they can start with new and improoved airplanes. Now, i think that a "Lightning" with 4 seats (Lets call it "Thunter") could be an exelent oportunity for the big 4 seater market... at least in Europe. Thunder would be certainly the best choice for PPA's (PPL's). I'll be waiting. Wanna drafts from "Lightning" with 4 seats? Lets work... -- Miguel Maia de Loureiro Ultralight Pilot Suport Services Cel.: +351 91 419 21 04 e-Mail: ultralight.flyer@gmail.com


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:09:12 PM PST US
    From: "Miguel Maia de Loureiro" <ultralight.flyer@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Lightning Demo Panel
    > > Very very very nice. Congratullations. Excellent job. > > -- Miguel Maia de Loureiro Ultralight Pilot Suport Services Cel.: +351 91 419 21 04 e-Mail: ultralight.flyer@gmail.com


    Message 13


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    Time: 05:48:42 PM PST US
    From: pdukor1@tampabay.rr.com
    Subject: Re: Four Seater
    See what you have started! I'll wait for S & F to see the prototype 4. Paul Sarasota, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: Miguel Maia de Loureiro <ultralight.flyer@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Four Seater > 4 seater... see, J400 series, or even MCR 4... In Portugal "we" > bilt more > than 100 MCR's per year for entire Europe. Dyn Aero is very > interested in > J3300 engine, so they can start with new and improoved airplanes. > Now, i > think that a "Lightning" with 4 seats (Lets call it "Thunter") > could be an > exelent oportunity for the big 4 seater market... at least in Europe. > Thunder would be certainly the best choice for PPA's (PPL's). I'll be > waiting. Wanna drafts from "Lightning" with 4 seats? Lets work... > > > -- > Miguel Maia de Loureiro > Ultralight Pilot Suport Services > Cel.: +351 91 419 21 04 > e-Mail: ultralight.flyer@gmail.com >




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