Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:45 AM - Drag Reduction (Brian Whittingham)
2. 03:12 PM - Re: Drag Reduction (IFLYSMODEL@AOL.COM)
3. 05:09 PM - Re: Drag Reduction (Charles Dewey)
4. 05:34 PM - Re: Drag Reduction (Jim Langley)
5. 06:11 PM - Re: Drag Reduction (Brian Whittingham)
6. 07:07 PM - Re: Drag reduction (Clive James)
Message 1
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Hello Lightning list,
At this time I would like to ask for your opinions. For about a years
time now I've been trying to start into talks for a cooperative test flight
evaluation of a new form of drag reduction. The time has come where I have
finally gotten a response. This particular doctor has designed a form of
drag reduction which he has proven on sailplanes. So there's some good news
and ?Bad? news:
First off the results showed up to a 27% reduction in profile drag of the
aircraft!
2. an increase in about 10-15% fuel savings estimated for a powered
aircraft due to drag reduction
3. This means an increase in range and endurance
4. This also means better glide ratio and climb performance
5. This could result in additional speed for those of you who wish to
cruise closer to 200mph.
Now here's the drawback:
Who would venture to say that they'd spend the money for it. For a Cirrus
glider the dollar amount come to $2000 per plane. Keep in mind that this
technology has never yet been tested on powered aircraft. The drag
reduction "trend" says that it could be even greater than quoted above
though. I truly believe that this technology along with the gap seals and
flap hinge fairings that I am presently working on would yield a 200 mph
cruise speed. I just can't say for sure though unless it was flight tested.
What would make it worth the cost to you? What performance variables are
most important to you? Fuel consumption, cruise speed, range, endurance,
climb, glide, etc?
I believe that this joint venture could be beneficial to both Arion Aircraft
and to the Doctor that I mentioned above. The flight tests could be
independently verified for the Dr. and the Arion group could be the first to
have this technology tested on a powered aircraft and offer another option
of a cleanup kit. It would also give Arion some recognition of publication
in the form of AIAA technical reports.
Now keep in mind that the Lightning has a maneuvering speed well below
200mph. However, at altitude and in smooth air the airplane can be flown
above Vma without any problems. Even if you're not cruising at that speed
though you'd notice that fuel reduction savings and the climb and all.
I have not yet talked to Pete or Nick yet about this. I will have moved to
Texas by the time anything could be arranged, but if there is interest,
perhaps this could be pursued. Think about it, and give me your ideas.
Brian Whittingham
_________________________________________________________________
Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Drag Reduction |
Hey Brian: I for one would be interested very much. I have not yet purchased
a Lightning, but hope to do so soon (I am trying to sell my Bonanza). I have
to get in touch with Pete/Nick and get a demo ride at Sun & fun.
Lynn Nelsen do not archive
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Drag Reduction |
Brian, I'm on board 100%. Sounds like you're on to
something. Charles
--- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
>
> Hello Lightning list,
> At this time I would like to ask for your
> opinions. For about a years
> time now I've been trying to start into talks for a
> cooperative test flight
> evaluation of a new form of drag reduction. The
> time has come where I have
> finally gotten a response. This particular doctor
> has designed a form of
> drag reduction which he has proven on sailplanes.
> So there's some good news
> and ?Bad? news:
>
> First off the results showed up to a 27% reduction
> in profile drag of the
> aircraft!
> 2. an increase in about 10-15% fuel savings
> estimated for a powered
> aircraft due to drag reduction
> 3. This means an increase in range and endurance
> 4. This also means better glide ratio and climb
> performance
> 5. This could result in additional speed for those
> of you who wish to
> cruise closer to 200mph.
>
> Now here's the drawback:
>
> Who would venture to say that they'd spend the money
> for it. For a Cirrus
> glider the dollar amount come to $2000 per plane.
> Keep in mind that this
> technology has never yet been tested on powered
> aircraft. The drag
> reduction "trend" says that it could be even greater
> than quoted above
> though. I truly believe that this technology along
> with the gap seals and
> flap hinge fairings that I am presently working on
> would yield a 200 mph
> cruise speed. I just can't say for sure though
> unless it was flight tested.
> What would make it worth the cost to you? What
> performance variables are
> most important to you? Fuel consumption, cruise
> speed, range, endurance,
> climb, glide, etc?
>
> I believe that this joint venture could be
> beneficial to both Arion Aircraft
> and to the Doctor that I mentioned above. The
> flight tests could be
> independently verified for the Dr. and the Arion
> group could be the first to
> have this technology tested on a powered aircraft
> and offer another option
> of a cleanup kit. It would also give Arion some
> recognition of publication
> in the form of AIAA technical reports.
>
> Now keep in mind that the Lightning has a
> maneuvering speed well below
> 200mph. However, at altitude and in smooth air the
> airplane can be flown
> above Vma without any problems. Even if you're not
> cruising at that speed
> though you'd notice that fuel reduction savings and
> the climb and all.
>
> I have not yet talked to Pete or Nick yet about
> this. I will have moved to
> Texas by the time anything could be arranged, but if
> there is interest,
> perhaps this could be pursued. Think about it, and
> give me your ideas.
> Brian Whittingham
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis
> and more. Visit MSN
> Presents today.
>
http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 4
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Sounds great! If I fit in the newer Lightning this Saturday, then I will be
placing my order too.
Jim!
--- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
>
> Hello Lightning list,
> At this time I would like to ask for your
> opinions. For about a years
> time now I've been trying to start into talks for a
> cooperative test flight
> evaluation of a new form of drag reduction. The
> time has come where I have
> finally gotten a response. This particular doctor
> has designed a form of
> drag reduction which he has proven on sailplanes.
> So there's some good news
> and ?Bad? news:
>
> First off the results showed up to a 27% reduction
> in profile drag of the
> aircraft!
> 2. an increase in about 10-15% fuel savings
> estimated for a powered
> aircraft due to drag reduction
> 3. This means an increase in range and endurance
> 4. This also means better glide ratio and climb
> performance
> 5. This could result in additional speed for those
> of you who wish to
> cruise closer to 200mph.
>
> Now here's the drawback:
>
> Who would venture to say that they'd spend the money
> for it. For a Cirrus
> glider the dollar amount come to $2000 per plane.
> Keep in mind that this
> technology has never yet been tested on powered
> aircraft. The drag
> reduction "trend" says that it could be even greater
> than quoted above
> though. I truly believe that this technology along
> with the gap seals and
> flap hinge fairings that I am presently working on
> would yield a 200 mph
> cruise speed. I just can't say for sure though
> unless it was flight tested.
> What would make it worth the cost to you? What
> performance variables are
> most important to you? Fuel consumption, cruise
> speed, range, endurance,
> climb, glide, etc?
>
> I believe that this joint venture could be
> beneficial to both Arion Aircraft
> and to the Doctor that I mentioned above. The
> flight tests could be
> independently verified for the Dr. and the Arion
> group could be the first to
> have this technology tested on a powered aircraft
> and offer another option
> of a cleanup kit. It would also give Arion some
> recognition of publication
> in the form of AIAA technical reports.
>
> Now keep in mind that the Lightning has a
> maneuvering speed well below
> 200mph. However, at altitude and in smooth air the
> airplane can be flown
> above Vma without any problems. Even if you're not
> cruising at that speed
> though you'd notice that fuel reduction savings and
> the climb and all.
>
> I have not yet talked to Pete or Nick yet about
> this. I will have moved to
> Texas by the time anything could be arranged, but if
> there is interest,
> perhaps this could be pursued. Think about it, and
> give me your ideas.
> Brian Whittingham
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis
> and more. Visit MSN
> Presents today.
>
http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
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Message 5
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Lightning List,
I'll talk to Nick and Pete about it. I have the personal contact info
for this inventor. It really is beyond my understanding how it works, but
the results are impressive. I'm all about efficiency, and I don't know how
this would effect the plane, but I'm thinking you could get some pretty
crazy performance like 160mph on 3.5 gph or something. The plane really is
impressive once you have a chance to fly it and verify the stats are for
real, but I would love to see the Lightning blow the competition away and
become one of these legendary type of aircraft. The type that people are in
awe and disbelief of the performance, but is verified by 100's or 1000's of
customers. Like I said, I won't be around to see a new round of testing
through for this project, but if I can get something in the works I'll be
following the progress. I believe this type of drag reduction, since it's
never been used on a powered aircraft, along with a composite body, glass
cockpit, high laminar flow wing, etc. really would be considered cutting
edge technology.
I have no idea how the performance will change, but know there would be a
big L/D change and that's exciting. It took me about a year to get the guy
to respond, but he finally did and is interested. Should be interesting.
Brian W.
From: "Brian Whittingham" <dashvii@hotmail.com>
Subject: Lightning-List: Drag Reduction
<dashvii@hotmail.com>
Hello Lightning list,
At this time I would like to ask for your opinions. For about a years
time now I've been trying to start into talks for a cooperative test flight
evaluation of a new form of drag reduction. The time has come where I have
finally gotten a response. This particular doctor has designed a form of
drag reduction which he has proven on sailplanes. So there's some good news
and ?Bad? news:
First off the results showed up to a 27% reduction in profile drag of the
aircraft!
2. an increase in about 10-15% fuel savings estimated for a powered
aircraft due to drag reduction
3. This means an increase in range and endurance
4. This also means better glide ratio and climb performance
5. This could result in additional speed for those of you who wish to
cruise closer to 200mph.
Now here's the drawback:
Who would venture to say that they'd spend the money for it. For a Cirrus
glider the dollar amount come to $2000 per plane. Keep in mind that this
technology has never yet been tested on powered aircraft. The drag
reduction "trend" says that it could be even greater than quoted above
though. I truly believe that this technology along with the gap seals and
flap hinge fairings that I am presently working on would yield a 200 mph
cruise speed. I just can't say for sure though unless it was flight tested.
What would make it worth the cost to you? What performance variables are
most important to you? Fuel consumption, cruise speed, range, endurance,
climb, glide, etc?
I believe that this joint venture could be beneficial to both Arion Aircraft
and to the Doctor that I mentioned above. The flight tests could be
independently verified for the Dr. and the Arion group could be the first to
have this technology tested on a powered aircraft and offer another option
of a cleanup kit. It would also give Arion some recognition of publication
in the form of AIAA technical reports.
Now keep in mind that the Lightning has a maneuvering speed well below
200mph. However, at altitude and in smooth air the airplane can be flown
above Vma without any problems. Even if you're not cruising at that speed
though you'd notice that fuel reduction savings and the climb and all.
I have not yet talked to Pete or Nick yet about this. I will have moved to
Texas by the time anything could be arranged, but if there is interest,
perhaps this could be pursued. Think about it, and give me your ideas.
Brian Whittingham
_________________________________________________________________
Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN
Presents today.
http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 6
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Subject: | RE: Drag reduction |
Brian, this is a really interesting intiative. I think given the investment that
is made in the likes of the lightning and similar aircraft the amounts you are
talking about are small beer. The kinda folk who are interested in the Esqual
and now the lightning all love a 'go faster stripe' and a real tweak that does
that will be a must have for most. Speed is always good though the increased
efficiency at cruise will be the real benefit in fuel dollars and wear and
tear.
I fly a Jabiru at the moment and it galls me that there's been no development in
the aerodynamics when it come to drag. Its a great little plane but it may as
well have a anchor hanging out the back for the thought that's gone into making
it slippery.
When I finally finish my Esqual I'll have a fiddle with the Jab, there are some
no brainers that need doing and will watch with great interest any developments
that you share with us.
Thanks for all the other info you post, good to read your informative flight tests.
Regards, Clive (in UK)
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