---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/25/07: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:45 AM - Drag Reduction (Brian Whittingham) 2. 03:12 PM - Re: Drag Reduction (IFLYSMODEL@AOL.COM) 3. 05:09 PM - Re: Drag Reduction (Charles Dewey) 4. 05:34 PM - Re: Drag Reduction (Jim Langley) 5. 06:11 PM - Re: Drag Reduction (Brian Whittingham) 6. 07:07 PM - Re: Drag reduction (Clive James) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:08 AM PST US From: "Brian Whittingham" Subject: Lightning-List: Drag Reduction Hello Lightning list, At this time I would like to ask for your opinions. For about a years time now I've been trying to start into talks for a cooperative test flight evaluation of a new form of drag reduction. The time has come where I have finally gotten a response. This particular doctor has designed a form of drag reduction which he has proven on sailplanes. So there's some good news and ?Bad? news: First off the results showed up to a 27% reduction in profile drag of the aircraft! 2. an increase in about 10-15% fuel savings estimated for a powered aircraft due to drag reduction 3. This means an increase in range and endurance 4. This also means better glide ratio and climb performance 5. This could result in additional speed for those of you who wish to cruise closer to 200mph. Now here's the drawback: Who would venture to say that they'd spend the money for it. For a Cirrus glider the dollar amount come to $2000 per plane. Keep in mind that this technology has never yet been tested on powered aircraft. The drag reduction "trend" says that it could be even greater than quoted above though. I truly believe that this technology along with the gap seals and flap hinge fairings that I am presently working on would yield a 200 mph cruise speed. I just can't say for sure though unless it was flight tested. What would make it worth the cost to you? What performance variables are most important to you? Fuel consumption, cruise speed, range, endurance, climb, glide, etc? I believe that this joint venture could be beneficial to both Arion Aircraft and to the Doctor that I mentioned above. The flight tests could be independently verified for the Dr. and the Arion group could be the first to have this technology tested on a powered aircraft and offer another option of a cleanup kit. It would also give Arion some recognition of publication in the form of AIAA technical reports. Now keep in mind that the Lightning has a maneuvering speed well below 200mph. However, at altitude and in smooth air the airplane can be flown above Vma without any problems. Even if you're not cruising at that speed though you'd notice that fuel reduction savings and the climb and all. I have not yet talked to Pete or Nick yet about this. I will have moved to Texas by the time anything could be arranged, but if there is interest, perhaps this could be pursued. Think about it, and give me your ideas. Brian Whittingham _________________________________________________________________ Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN Presents today. http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:28 PM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Drag Reduction Hey Brian: I for one would be interested very much. I have not yet purchased a Lightning, but hope to do so soon (I am trying to sell my Bonanza). I have to get in touch with Pete/Nick and get a demo ride at Sun & fun. Lynn Nelsen do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:00 PM PST US From: Charles Dewey Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Drag Reduction Brian, I'm on board 100%. Sounds like you're on to something. Charles --- Brian Whittingham wrote: > Whittingham" > > Hello Lightning list, > At this time I would like to ask for your > opinions. For about a years > time now I've been trying to start into talks for a > cooperative test flight > evaluation of a new form of drag reduction. The > time has come where I have > finally gotten a response. This particular doctor > has designed a form of > drag reduction which he has proven on sailplanes. > So there's some good news > and ?Bad? news: > > First off the results showed up to a 27% reduction > in profile drag of the > aircraft! > 2. an increase in about 10-15% fuel savings > estimated for a powered > aircraft due to drag reduction > 3. This means an increase in range and endurance > 4. This also means better glide ratio and climb > performance > 5. This could result in additional speed for those > of you who wish to > cruise closer to 200mph. > > Now here's the drawback: > > Who would venture to say that they'd spend the money > for it. For a Cirrus > glider the dollar amount come to $2000 per plane. > Keep in mind that this > technology has never yet been tested on powered > aircraft. The drag > reduction "trend" says that it could be even greater > than quoted above > though. I truly believe that this technology along > with the gap seals and > flap hinge fairings that I am presently working on > would yield a 200 mph > cruise speed. I just can't say for sure though > unless it was flight tested. > What would make it worth the cost to you? What > performance variables are > most important to you? Fuel consumption, cruise > speed, range, endurance, > climb, glide, etc? > > I believe that this joint venture could be > beneficial to both Arion Aircraft > and to the Doctor that I mentioned above. The > flight tests could be > independently verified for the Dr. and the Arion > group could be the first to > have this technology tested on a powered aircraft > and offer another option > of a cleanup kit. It would also give Arion some > recognition of publication > in the form of AIAA technical reports. > > Now keep in mind that the Lightning has a > maneuvering speed well below > 200mph. However, at altitude and in smooth air the > airplane can be flown > above Vma without any problems. Even if you're not > cruising at that speed > though you'd notice that fuel reduction savings and > the climb and all. > > I have not yet talked to Pete or Nick yet about > this. I will have moved to > Texas by the time anything could be arranged, but if > there is interest, > perhaps this could be pursued. Think about it, and > give me your ideas. > Brian Whittingham > > _________________________________________________________________ > Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis > and more. Visit MSN > Presents today. > http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001 > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List > > Web Forums! > > > > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:12 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Drag Reduction Sounds great! If I fit in the newer Lightning this Saturday, then I will be placing my order too. Jim! --- Brian Whittingham wrote: > Whittingham" > > Hello Lightning list, > At this time I would like to ask for your > opinions. For about a years > time now I've been trying to start into talks for a > cooperative test flight > evaluation of a new form of drag reduction. The > time has come where I have > finally gotten a response. This particular doctor > has designed a form of > drag reduction which he has proven on sailplanes. > So there's some good news > and ?Bad? news: > > First off the results showed up to a 27% reduction > in profile drag of the > aircraft! > 2. an increase in about 10-15% fuel savings > estimated for a powered > aircraft due to drag reduction > 3. This means an increase in range and endurance > 4. This also means better glide ratio and climb > performance > 5. This could result in additional speed for those > of you who wish to > cruise closer to 200mph. > > Now here's the drawback: > > Who would venture to say that they'd spend the money > for it. For a Cirrus > glider the dollar amount come to $2000 per plane. > Keep in mind that this > technology has never yet been tested on powered > aircraft. The drag > reduction "trend" says that it could be even greater > than quoted above > though. I truly believe that this technology along > with the gap seals and > flap hinge fairings that I am presently working on > would yield a 200 mph > cruise speed. I just can't say for sure though > unless it was flight tested. > What would make it worth the cost to you? What > performance variables are > most important to you? Fuel consumption, cruise > speed, range, endurance, > climb, glide, etc? > > I believe that this joint venture could be > beneficial to both Arion Aircraft > and to the Doctor that I mentioned above. The > flight tests could be > independently verified for the Dr. and the Arion > group could be the first to > have this technology tested on a powered aircraft > and offer another option > of a cleanup kit. It would also give Arion some > recognition of publication > in the form of AIAA technical reports. > > Now keep in mind that the Lightning has a > maneuvering speed well below > 200mph. However, at altitude and in smooth air the > airplane can be flown > above Vma without any problems. Even if you're not > cruising at that speed > though you'd notice that fuel reduction savings and > the climb and all. > > I have not yet talked to Pete or Nick yet about > this. I will have moved to > Texas by the time anything could be arranged, but if > there is interest, > perhaps this could be pursued. Think about it, and > give me your ideas. > Brian Whittingham > > _________________________________________________________________ > Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis > and more. Visit MSN > Presents today. > http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001 > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List > > Web Forums! > > > > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:42 PM PST US From: "Brian Whittingham" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Drag Reduction Lightning List, I'll talk to Nick and Pete about it. I have the personal contact info for this inventor. It really is beyond my understanding how it works, but the results are impressive. I'm all about efficiency, and I don't know how this would effect the plane, but I'm thinking you could get some pretty crazy performance like 160mph on 3.5 gph or something. The plane really is impressive once you have a chance to fly it and verify the stats are for real, but I would love to see the Lightning blow the competition away and become one of these legendary type of aircraft. The type that people are in awe and disbelief of the performance, but is verified by 100's or 1000's of customers. Like I said, I won't be around to see a new round of testing through for this project, but if I can get something in the works I'll be following the progress. I believe this type of drag reduction, since it's never been used on a powered aircraft, along with a composite body, glass cockpit, high laminar flow wing, etc. really would be considered cutting edge technology. I have no idea how the performance will change, but know there would be a big L/D change and that's exciting. It took me about a year to get the guy to respond, but he finally did and is interested. Should be interesting. Brian W. From: "Brian Whittingham" Subject: Lightning-List: Drag Reduction Hello Lightning list, At this time I would like to ask for your opinions. For about a years time now I've been trying to start into talks for a cooperative test flight evaluation of a new form of drag reduction. The time has come where I have finally gotten a response. This particular doctor has designed a form of drag reduction which he has proven on sailplanes. So there's some good news and ?Bad? news: First off the results showed up to a 27% reduction in profile drag of the aircraft! 2. an increase in about 10-15% fuel savings estimated for a powered aircraft due to drag reduction 3. This means an increase in range and endurance 4. This also means better glide ratio and climb performance 5. This could result in additional speed for those of you who wish to cruise closer to 200mph. Now here's the drawback: Who would venture to say that they'd spend the money for it. For a Cirrus glider the dollar amount come to $2000 per plane. Keep in mind that this technology has never yet been tested on powered aircraft. The drag reduction "trend" says that it could be even greater than quoted above though. I truly believe that this technology along with the gap seals and flap hinge fairings that I am presently working on would yield a 200 mph cruise speed. I just can't say for sure though unless it was flight tested. What would make it worth the cost to you? What performance variables are most important to you? Fuel consumption, cruise speed, range, endurance, climb, glide, etc? I believe that this joint venture could be beneficial to both Arion Aircraft and to the Doctor that I mentioned above. The flight tests could be independently verified for the Dr. and the Arion group could be the first to have this technology tested on a powered aircraft and offer another option of a cleanup kit. It would also give Arion some recognition of publication in the form of AIAA technical reports. Now keep in mind that the Lightning has a maneuvering speed well below 200mph. However, at altitude and in smooth air the airplane can be flown above Vma without any problems. Even if you're not cruising at that speed though you'd notice that fuel reduction savings and the climb and all. I have not yet talked to Pete or Nick yet about this. I will have moved to Texas by the time anything could be arranged, but if there is interest, perhaps this could be pursued. Think about it, and give me your ideas. Brian Whittingham _________________________________________________________________ Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN Presents today. http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001 _________________________________________________________________ Live Search Maps find all the local information you need, right when you need it. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag2&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:16 PM PST US From: Clive James Subject: Lightning-List: RE: Drag reduction Brian, this is a really interesting intiative. I think given the investment that is made in the likes of the lightning and similar aircraft the amounts you are talking about are small beer. The kinda folk who are interested in the Esqual and now the lightning all love a 'go faster stripe' and a real tweak that does that will be a must have for most. Speed is always good though the increased efficiency at cruise will be the real benefit in fuel dollars and wear and tear. I fly a Jabiru at the moment and it galls me that there's been no development in the aerodynamics when it come to drag. Its a great little plane but it may as well have a anchor hanging out the back for the thought that's gone into making it slippery. When I finally finish my Esqual I'll have a fiddle with the Jab, there are some no brainers that need doing and will watch with great interest any developments that you share with us. Thanks for all the other info you post, good to read your informative flight tests. Regards, Clive (in UK) ___________________________________________________________ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. 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