Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:39 AM - Re: another's concern (deuskid)
2. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: another's concern (Jim Langley)
3. 12:00 PM - Engine and instruments stolen (Daniel DW)
4. 12:00 PM - Engine and instruments stolen (Daniel DW)
5. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: another's concern (Kayberg@AOL.COM)
6. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: another's concern (Jim Logajan)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: another's concern |
Thanks Guys for the good posts.
This was on a canard forum [so the thinking is already 'out of the box'] and alternative
engines are actively promoted [traditional engine mindset is accepted
but no one has drunk the kool-aid].
I agree he/she didn't know what they were suggesting and the 'have you seen, flown'
argument is a good one 'cept - neither have I.
He/she is an engineer and probably a bit more analytical and cautious than many.
Also, his/her 'wish list' is probably made of the material: unobtainium. I've
seen many posts by this individual and they are a flying pilot w/ an older
certified a/c in northern 1/2 Europe trying to identify the 'perfect' replacement.
He/she is not a troller or troublemaker.
I wouldn't take offense at his/her observations but I would like as much information
as possible to alay fears and misconceptions to help him/her individually
and just make sure the lightning is accurately portraited in general. Good
information is the best way to keep misperceptions like this from being perpetuated.
His/her questions/concerns were sincere even if the conclusions are poor - based
upon presumption and misinformation.
Give him/her the benefit of the doubt and give me all the information needed so
that I can link him/her right here and let them become better informed. That
is the best answer for everyone, him/her and the Lightning group.
This thread could be quite useful because this mindset will arise again and again
and a solid explanation easily linked would be a great place for all of us
to refer 'doubters'.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114911#114911
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: another's concern |
John:
The problem is that people make strong statements about things that they
have never seen or touched. If someone told me that you were a rocket
scientist, and I responded with several "assumptions" not based on my
experience with you, especially with strong statements using words like
"crap" and insinuating poor expertise, I'm sure you would be offended.
I questioned some things with the Lightning when I first saw it. These were
things that I did not understand about composites and the list quickly
brought me up to date with a good understanding. The people on this list
are very helpful, but when you quote someone who obviously shouldn't even be
granted a listen, then it makes it hard for people to not get offended and
help you.
Pete and the others at Arion/JabiruUSA have endured this before and I'm
amazed at their durability. I guess that's why their aircraft are so
robust, because they are too.
One step at a time and I am sure others on the list would be happy to help.
Use your own judgment in deciding if the Lightning is right for you. You
must be impressed if you recommended it as a possibility in the first place.
This list is one of the reasons that I purchased a Lightning in the first
place. It took me six months of research to get to the point of writing the
check.
Now I'm happy!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of deuskid
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 9:39 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Re: another's concern
Thanks Guys for the good posts.
This was on a canard forum [so the thinking is already 'out of the box'] and
alternative engines are actively promoted [traditional engine mindset is
accepted but no one has drunk the kool-aid].
Message 3
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Subject: | Engine and instruments stolen |
To all pilots and aviation enthousiastics,
On May 25, my engine Jabiru 3300 and panel with 2*EFIS and EIS6000 from GRT
were stolen from my aircraft VM-1 Esqual at EBST in Belgium.
The aircraft was severely damaged.
You can find all serial numbers below.
If anyone of you would recognize these numbers, please let me know ASAP.
I would be very grateful.
Equipment Description
Part # Serial #
Jabiru 3300 cc Engine
33A559
Electric Gyro Corp. Turn & Bank indicator 1
394T100-7Z 2310-484
United Instruments, INC. Airspeed indicator (0-200 knots/250mph) 8025
185256
United Instruments, INC. Altimeter (-1,000 to 20,000 feet)
5934PM-3 432773
Garmin SL30 NavComm
013-00105-01 25902119
Garmin GTX330 Transponder Mode S
010-00230-01 84113957
Flightcom 403MC Intercom 403mc 9796
Grand Rapids Techn. EFIS Horizon Series 1 Multi Function Display
MFD-01-03001 45
Grand Rapids Techn. EFIS Horizon Series 2 Multi Function Display
MFD-01-03002 46
Grand Rapids Techn. EIS6000 Engine monitor
EIS-6000J 15873
VDO Trading AG RPM/hours indicator (0-4000 rpm)
999 165 009 021 449
Danny De Winter
PH-DWD
VM-1 Esqual
_________________________________________________________________
Probeer Windows Live Hotmail: snel, krachtig en veiliger dan ooit!
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Message 4
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Subject: | Engine and instruments stolen |
To all pilots and aviation enthousiastics,
On May 25, my engine Jabiru 3300 and panel with 2*EFIS and EIS6000 from GRT
were stolen from my aircraft VM-1 Esqual at EBST in Belgium.
The aircraft was severely damaged.
You can find all serial numbers below.
If anyone of you would recognize these numbers, please let me know ASAP.
I would be very grateful.
Equipment Description
Part # Serial #
Jabiru 3300 cc Engine
33A559
Electric Gyro Corp. Turn & Bank indicator 1
394T100-7Z 2310-484
United Instruments, INC. Airspeed indicator (0-200 knots/250mph) 8025
185256
United Instruments, INC. Altimeter (-1,000 to 20,000 feet)
5934PM-3 432773
Garmin SL30 NavComm
013-00105-01 25902119
Garmin GTX330 Transponder Mode S
010-00230-01 84113957
Flightcom 403MC Intercom 403mc 9796
Grand Rapids Techn. EFIS Horizon Series 1 Multi Function Display
MFD-01-03001 45
Grand Rapids Techn. EFIS Horizon Series 2 Multi Function Display
MFD-01-03002 46
Grand Rapids Techn. EIS6000 Engine monitor
EIS-6000J 15873
VDO Trading AG RPM/hours indicator (0-4000 rpm)
999 165 009 021 449
Danny De Winter
PH-DWD
VM-1 Esqual
_________________________________________________________________
Probeer Windows Live Hotmail: snel, krachtig en veiliger dan ooit!
http://get.live.com/live/features
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: another's concern |
In a message dated 5/26/2007 9:40:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
empire.john@gmail.com writes:
This was on a canard forum [so the thinking is already 'out of the box'] and
alternative engines are actively promoted [traditional engine mindset is
accepted but no one has drunk the kool-aid].
Not so sure I agree. I think they are firmly locked into a box. I was on
their lists, both canard aviators and alternitive engines, for some time.
Burt Rutan gave the canard a new life that turned out to be short lived.
Ask Beech how their Starship turned out. Or remember Larry Heuberger's Stinger
or his turboprop hauler, the OMAC 1? There is a reason most airplanes dont
lead with their tail.
I would suggest that the most honorable Mr. Rutan made his largest
contribution to aviation in the form of advancing moldless and later molded glass
composite structures. It is precisely that effort that led to the Lancair and
now the Lightning. Lighter weight and better aerodynamics make for faster
airplanes that carry more.
Oh, I understand the efficiency of a canard and winglets. They are a must
for flying around the world on one tank of gas. But puting the tail where it
can do the most good, like pitch control at low speeds, means we have near
the speeds of a glass-backwards plane but can land 20 mph slower.
I sold my Long-Eze projeect when it finally dawned on me that no matter what
I did, I could not hit the ground any slower than 60 mph. And, no matter
what I did, I could not operate a canard out of a 1500 foot grass strip.
I am a great fan of alternitive engines.....I am still waiting for someone
to actually produce one that is affordable and reliable. I do like the
Jabiru, but reality is that I can build a Lycoming from parts for less than half
the price....it will just weigh 60 lbs more...which is still lighter than most
alternitives.
If you have any background in mechanics at all, you will fall in love with a
Jabiru, particularly if you see one disassembled. Makes all the sense in
the world. Just costs too damn much!!!...until you price a 912 Rotax!!!
Doug Koenigsberg
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: another's concern |
Kayberg@aol.com wrote:
> I do like the Jabiru, but reality is that I can build a Lycoming from
> parts for less than half the price....
What's a realistic amount of time needed to assemble and test such an
engine? For example, if half the price of a Jabiru is, say, $7,000,
and you take 280 hours to assemble a comparable Lycoming from $7,000
worth of parts then if you value your time at more than $25/hour then
you are better off buying an assembled engine for $14,000.
Generally the lower the engine cost, the less advantage there is in
building one from parts. In this case your construction of a heavier
engine also eats into your plane's payload capacity.
Of course if you are retired and/or enjoy the process itself then
building an engine from parts may be just the ticket. That assumes of
course that one accepts that the cost of parts adds up to less then
a factory assembled engine. I know that is not generally the case in
the automotive engine world. I'd like to see proof that one can buy
all the parts to build a Lycoming that adds up to a cost lower than a
factory assembled engine.
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