---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/26/07: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:39 AM - Re: another's concern (deuskid) 2. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: another's concern (Jim Langley) 3. 12:00 PM - Engine and instruments stolen (Daniel DW) 4. 12:00 PM - Engine and instruments stolen (Daniel DW) 5. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: another's concern (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 6. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: another's concern (Jim Logajan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:22 AM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: another's concern From: "deuskid" Thanks Guys for the good posts. This was on a canard forum [so the thinking is already 'out of the box'] and alternative engines are actively promoted [traditional engine mindset is accepted but no one has drunk the kool-aid]. I agree he/she didn't know what they were suggesting and the 'have you seen, flown' argument is a good one 'cept - neither have I. He/she is an engineer and probably a bit more analytical and cautious than many. Also, his/her 'wish list' is probably made of the material: unobtainium. I've seen many posts by this individual and they are a flying pilot w/ an older certified a/c in northern 1/2 Europe trying to identify the 'perfect' replacement. He/she is not a troller or troublemaker. I wouldn't take offense at his/her observations but I would like as much information as possible to alay fears and misconceptions to help him/her individually and just make sure the lightning is accurately portraited in general. Good information is the best way to keep misperceptions like this from being perpetuated. His/her questions/concerns were sincere even if the conclusions are poor - based upon presumption and misinformation. Give him/her the benefit of the doubt and give me all the information needed so that I can link him/her right here and let them become better informed. That is the best answer for everyone, him/her and the Lightning group. This thread could be quite useful because this mindset will arise again and again and a solid explanation easily linked would be a great place for all of us to refer 'doubters'. John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114911#114911 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:23 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re: another's concern John: The problem is that people make strong statements about things that they have never seen or touched. If someone told me that you were a rocket scientist, and I responded with several "assumptions" not based on my experience with you, especially with strong statements using words like "crap" and insinuating poor expertise, I'm sure you would be offended. I questioned some things with the Lightning when I first saw it. These were things that I did not understand about composites and the list quickly brought me up to date with a good understanding. The people on this list are very helpful, but when you quote someone who obviously shouldn't even be granted a listen, then it makes it hard for people to not get offended and help you. Pete and the others at Arion/JabiruUSA have endured this before and I'm amazed at their durability. I guess that's why their aircraft are so robust, because they are too. One step at a time and I am sure others on the list would be happy to help. Use your own judgment in deciding if the Lightning is right for you. You must be impressed if you recommended it as a possibility in the first place. This list is one of the reasons that I purchased a Lightning in the first place. It took me six months of research to get to the point of writing the check. Now I'm happy! -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of deuskid Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 9:39 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: another's concern Thanks Guys for the good posts. This was on a canard forum [so the thinking is already 'out of the box'] and alternative engines are actively promoted [traditional engine mindset is accepted but no one has drunk the kool-aid]. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:10 PM PST US From: "Daniel DW" Subject: Lightning-List: Engine and instruments stolen To all pilots and aviation enthousiastics, On May 25, my engine Jabiru 3300 and panel with 2*EFIS and EIS6000 from GRT were stolen from my aircraft VM-1 Esqual at EBST in Belgium. The aircraft was severely damaged. You can find all serial numbers below. If anyone of you would recognize these numbers, please let me know ASAP. I would be very grateful. Equipment Description Part # Serial # Jabiru 3300 cc Engine 33A559 Electric Gyro Corp. Turn & Bank indicator 1 394T100-7Z 2310-484 United Instruments, INC. Airspeed indicator (0-200 knots/250mph) 8025 185256 United Instruments, INC. Altimeter (-1,000 to 20,000 feet) 5934PM-3 432773 Garmin SL30 NavComm 013-00105-01 25902119 Garmin GTX330 Transponder Mode S 010-00230-01 84113957 Flightcom 403MC Intercom 403mc 9796 Grand Rapids Techn. EFIS Horizon Series 1 Multi Function Display MFD-01-03001 45 Grand Rapids Techn. EFIS Horizon Series 2 Multi Function Display MFD-01-03002 46 Grand Rapids Techn. EIS6000 Engine monitor EIS-6000J 15873 VDO Trading AG RPM/hours indicator (0-4000 rpm) 999 165 009 021 449 Danny De Winter PH-DWD VM-1 Esqual _________________________________________________________________ Probeer Windows Live Hotmail: snel, krachtig en veiliger dan ooit! http://get.live.com/mail/features ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:10 PM PST US From: "Daniel DW" Subject: Lightning-List: Engine and instruments stolen To all pilots and aviation enthousiastics, On May 25, my engine Jabiru 3300 and panel with 2*EFIS and EIS6000 from GRT were stolen from my aircraft VM-1 Esqual at EBST in Belgium. The aircraft was severely damaged. You can find all serial numbers below. If anyone of you would recognize these numbers, please let me know ASAP. I would be very grateful. Equipment Description Part # Serial # Jabiru 3300 cc Engine 33A559 Electric Gyro Corp. Turn & Bank indicator 1 394T100-7Z 2310-484 United Instruments, INC. Airspeed indicator (0-200 knots/250mph) 8025 185256 United Instruments, INC. Altimeter (-1,000 to 20,000 feet) 5934PM-3 432773 Garmin SL30 NavComm 013-00105-01 25902119 Garmin GTX330 Transponder Mode S 010-00230-01 84113957 Flightcom 403MC Intercom 403mc 9796 Grand Rapids Techn. EFIS Horizon Series 1 Multi Function Display MFD-01-03001 45 Grand Rapids Techn. EFIS Horizon Series 2 Multi Function Display MFD-01-03002 46 Grand Rapids Techn. EIS6000 Engine monitor EIS-6000J 15873 VDO Trading AG RPM/hours indicator (0-4000 rpm) 999 165 009 021 449 Danny De Winter PH-DWD VM-1 Esqual _________________________________________________________________ Probeer Windows Live Hotmail: snel, krachtig en veiliger dan ooit! http://get.live.com/live/features ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:59 PM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: another's concern In a message dated 5/26/2007 9:40:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, empire.john@gmail.com writes: This was on a canard forum [so the thinking is already 'out of the box'] and alternative engines are actively promoted [traditional engine mindset is accepted but no one has drunk the kool-aid]. Not so sure I agree. I think they are firmly locked into a box. I was on their lists, both canard aviators and alternitive engines, for some time. Burt Rutan gave the canard a new life that turned out to be short lived. Ask Beech how their Starship turned out. Or remember Larry Heuberger's Stinger or his turboprop hauler, the OMAC 1? There is a reason most airplanes dont lead with their tail. I would suggest that the most honorable Mr. Rutan made his largest contribution to aviation in the form of advancing moldless and later molded glass composite structures. It is precisely that effort that led to the Lancair and now the Lightning. Lighter weight and better aerodynamics make for faster airplanes that carry more. Oh, I understand the efficiency of a canard and winglets. They are a must for flying around the world on one tank of gas. But puting the tail where it can do the most good, like pitch control at low speeds, means we have near the speeds of a glass-backwards plane but can land 20 mph slower. I sold my Long-Eze projeect when it finally dawned on me that no matter what I did, I could not hit the ground any slower than 60 mph. And, no matter what I did, I could not operate a canard out of a 1500 foot grass strip. I am a great fan of alternitive engines.....I am still waiting for someone to actually produce one that is affordable and reliable. I do like the Jabiru, but reality is that I can build a Lycoming from parts for less than half the price....it will just weigh 60 lbs more...which is still lighter than most alternitives. If you have any background in mechanics at all, you will fall in love with a Jabiru, particularly if you see one disassembled. Makes all the sense in the world. Just costs too damn much!!!...until you price a 912 Rotax!!! Doug Koenigsberg ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:08 PM PST US From: Jim Logajan Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: another's concern Kayberg@aol.com wrote: > I do like the Jabiru, but reality is that I can build a Lycoming from > parts for less than half the price.... What's a realistic amount of time needed to assemble and test such an engine? For example, if half the price of a Jabiru is, say, $7,000, and you take 280 hours to assemble a comparable Lycoming from $7,000 worth of parts then if you value your time at more than $25/hour then you are better off buying an assembled engine for $14,000. Generally the lower the engine cost, the less advantage there is in building one from parts. In this case your construction of a heavier engine also eats into your plane's payload capacity. Of course if you are retired and/or enjoy the process itself then building an engine from parts may be just the ticket. That assumes of course that one accepts that the cost of parts adds up to less then a factory assembled engine. I know that is not generally the case in the automotive engine world. I'd like to see proof that one can buy all the parts to build a Lycoming that adds up to a cost lower than a factory assembled engine. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.