Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:28 AM - Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit (Kayberg@aol.com)
2. 04:53 AM - Re: condition inspection (deuskid)
3. 04:53 AM - Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit (georgiemun)
4. 05:09 AM - Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit (Brian Whittingham)
5. 05:20 AM - Re: Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit (Brian Whittingham)
6. 05:51 AM - Re: Re: condition inspection (Kayberg@AOL.COM)
7. 06:03 AM - Re: Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit (Kayberg@AOL.COM)
8. 06:44 AM - Re: Taildraggers forever....... (nick otterback)
9. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: Aviating in Virginia (Jim Langley)
10. 08:36 PM - Another two days on N730AL (Jim Langley)
11. 09:51 PM - Re: Another two days on N730AL (nick otterback)
12. 10:32 PM - Re: Another two days on N730AL (Steven Sundquist)
13. 10:46 PM - Lightning Videos (Jim Langley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit |
In a message dated 8/10/2007 9:35:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lozhoffman@yahoo.com writes:
And what's wrong with being a die hard taildragger
fan???? I sense another real aeroplane vs tricycle
undercarriage airplane discussion coming!
Laurie
Sydney
I plead guilty to a charge of emotional bias.
At Oshkosh this year I saw a Luscomb nose over on its back; and a P-51
Mustang driver crash and die on landing their taildraggers in two seperate
incidents right in front of me. Had they been trigear, it is quite likely no
crash
would have occured.
As I age, it seems senseless to make an airplane MORE LIKELY to crash when
landing!
Since no tri-gear Pitts exists (to my knowledge) I have no problems with it.
Or with specialty airplanes that would seem to require tailwheels. But
for casual flyers, to retrofit to a tailwheel would seem not to make sense for
the wise.
doug koenigsberg
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: condition inspection |
Kayberg(at)AOL.COM wrote:
> In a message dated 8/9/2007 9:49:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, empire.john@gmail.com
writes:
>
> >
> > I do agree with your conclusion, however, that it is better to build than
to buy.
> >
> > Doug Koenigsberg
> >
> >
> >
> > > [b]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Actually this is from 2 A&Ps from 2 different forums [Canardavaition and
VAF]. On VAF they guy told me he charges around 750 and cited another name
that charges $1,000 [both specifically for RVs and both are EAA counselors
and DARs]. The canard guy actually said 2-3k for the initial condition inspection
[~40 hours @ $75/hr] and then something north of $1k after that.
> >
> > What have been your personal experiences?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Most of my personal experiences are vicarious. My conclusion, however, is
that certified mechanics are not a monolitic bunch.
>
>
> One other consideration is your own mechanical expertise. If you built a
plane, you should be able to inspect it. If you have NEVER built a plane, or
overhauled a car engine, welded, assembled something other than a bicycle, then
a good inspector is worth whatever. If you already know everything about
your plane, then to pay $ to have someone inspect what you already know to
be correct, is annoying.
>
> The DAR checked what he wanted anyway and got to a fuel system check. "Turn
on the boost pump" he told the owner. "Now come and look" he said. A fitting
in the fuel system was loose and a fine mist of fuel was spraying directly
on the exhaust pipe! "This is why we do inspections!" said my DAR to the
builder.
>
>
> doug
>
>
Thanks Doug.
I have significant auto mechanical experience and aptitude.
I was weighing buying an experimental v. building when this issue arose. I snipped
your message for space sake but everything you said had value - thank you.
I can see having another set of eyes on one's a/c would be wise. I was just surprised
at the large amounts quoted by the few replies in the other forums.
IF an condition inspection is > $1k each year and is avoidable by building the
a/c oneself then it is an meaningful input in the buy/build decision process.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128602#128602
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit |
[/quote]
I plead guilty to a charge of emotional bias.
At Oshkosh this year I saw a Luscomb nose over on its back; and a P-51 Mustang
driver crash and die on landing their taildraggers in two seperate incidents
right in front of me. Had they been trigear, it is quite likely no crash
would have occured.
[/quote]
I think you are a little off base here. The Mustang crash had nothing to do with
the fact that the aircraft is a tail dragger since he was still in the air
when he ran up into the tail of the guy in front of him.
Flying that close, he would have done the same thing in a tri-gear.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128603#128603
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit |
"a P-51 Mustang driver crash and die on landing their taildraggers"
To be fair that was caused by more than just being a taildragger. The FAA
said that they were not flying in for a formation landing, but trying to
land at the same time, thus lack of communication played a major part. You
could almost make the same argument here about low wing and high wing
airplanes and their blind spots when descending or climbing.
One thing that we did discuss in an air race forum (P-51's at Oskosh were
finishing a mock air race) was the need for a rollover structure. In this
case it likely wouldn't have mattered, but at Sun N Fun a few years back a
T-6 rolled onto its back, the rollover structure had been removed, and the
person suffocated b/c his neck was pinched backwards. After that they
required at least 2 different race classes have rollover structures. Some
said that the plane went into the grass and it wouldn't have mattered and it
would've dug in. The fact is that you just don't know since it didn't have
one.
Kind of back to the orgianlly intended topic, the Lightning has an area
behind the canopy that is supposed to be designed as a roll over structure
from what I was told. Brian W.
From: Kayberg@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning fiberglass factory visit
In a message dated 8/10/2007 9:35:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lozhoffman@yahoo.com writes:
And what's wrong with being a die hard taildragger
fan???? I sense another real aeroplane vs tricycle
undercarriage airplane discussion coming!
Laurie
Sydney
I plead guilty to a charge of emotional bias.
At Oshkosh this year I saw a Luscomb nose over on its back; and a P-51
Mustang driver crash and die on landing their taildraggers in two seperate
incidents right in front of me. Had they been trigear, it is quite likely
no crash
would have occured.
As I age, it seems senseless to make an airplane MORE LIKELY to crash when
landing!
Since no tri-gear Pitts exists (to my knowledge) I have no problems with
it.
Or with specialty airplanes that would seem to require tailwheels. But
for casual flyers, to retrofit to a tailwheel would seem not to make sense
for
the wise.
doug koenigsberg
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit |
Also, The crash at Oskosh was actually NOT a mustang. This was a 100%
scale replica of an A model mustang built from the orignal plans. It and
the other aircraft involved were featured in a new movie called "Thunder
Over Reno", which is about air racing. Movie Trailer can be found here:
http://www.thunderoverreno.com/news/ Also, the two families involved were
good friends and the plane that survived was actually the owners son. (not
a really young guy, just mean that had to be scary for the owner to see all
of this). Brian W.
From: "georgiemun" <georgiemun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit
[/quote]
I plead guilty to a charge of emotional bias.
At Oshkosh this year I saw a Luscomb nose over on its back; and a P-51
Mustang driver crash and die on landing their taildraggers in two seperate
incidents right in front of me. Had they been trigear, it is quite likely
no crash would have occured.
[/quote]
I think you are a little off base here. The Mustang crash had nothing to do
with the fact that the aircraft is a tail dragger since he was still in the
air when he ran up into the tail of the guy in front of him.
Flying that close, he would have done the same thing in a tri-gear.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128603#128603
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: condition inspection |
In a message dated 8/11/2007 7:54:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
empire.john@gmail.com writes:
Thanks Doug.
I have significant auto mechanical experience and aptitude.
I was weighing buying an experimental v. building when this issue arose. I
snipped your message for space sake but everything you said had value - thank
you.
I can see having another set of eyes on one's a/c would be wise. I was just
surprised at the large amounts quoted by the few replies in the other forums.
IF an condition inspection is > $1k each year and is avoidable by building
the a/c oneself then it is an meaningful input in the buy/build decision
process.
John
John,
There is no question that the Lightning is the best value on the market
today for 1) price 2)performance 3) ease of building (particularly at a build
center) 4) economy.
There is financing available, a quickly growing body of experience, sound
construction and trustworthy people who run things. Actually the people are
more important than the airplane, but that is another thread.
At Green Landings, we are proud to represent the two very best kitplanes in
their respective worlds; The Sky Ranger and the Lightning.
By the time you have built one you will confidently do your own inspections,
and since you will probably keep it til you die, the whole question of
"condition inspections" is moot.
Sorry about the commercial, my emotions are a bit ragged today.
doug
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit |
In a message dated 8/11/2007 7:54:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
georgiemun@yahoo.com writes:
I think you are a little off base here. The Mustang crash had nothing to
do with the fact that the aircraft is a tail dragger since he was still in the
air when he ran up into the tail of the guy in front of him.
Flying that close, he would have done the same thing in a tri-gear.
You may be right.......but with a nosewheel he would have had the option to
just bang it down and slam on the brakes.
It would seem to me that with a tailwheel you have fewer options at
touchdown.
doug
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Taildraggers forever....... |
Rick...
I was not scared at all flying with you in N727RB, it was a fun experiance. As
long as we are stirring up the ol tail wheel nose wheel pot i thought i might
interject. There are never really problems with aeroplanes as much as there
are problems with the pilot and what they do with that airplane. I to have seen
a few nose draggers land hard, collapse a nose leg under and flip the plane
on its back, so was it the airplane or the landing....most likley the later. I
do think tail draggers are much better for grass ops then tir gears, don't see
too many C182 bush planes, but either one desgined properly and flown correctly
can be just as safe as the other. I fly both types on a reqgular basis so
i am not just shootin in the dark here the tail wheel takes more concentration
to fly during the takeoff and landing phase, but than again we are pilots here
not bus drivers so a little more is expected. I have also taught many a pilot
to fly the ol tail wheel and found that most of
them once trained were more aware of the aircraft, its capabilities and their
surroundings at the airport. May be flying nose gears have allowed us to be more
relaxed group of pilots and not worry because the plane wont hurt us if we
screw up alittle. Anyways this discussion could go on and on for years, ever heard
of chevy vs ford, you get the picture. If we apply all of this to something
pertaining to the lightning i think we can come up with a few things. Yes is
is a nose gear design, this is to tailor to the general pilot group out there.
dos this make it easier to land, no not really, what gets most pilots is that
it only weighs half of what the airplane they came out of weighs. And it is
responsive, would it be harder to transistionin to if it was a tail wheel plane,
i do no think so. And last will there ever be a tail wheel lightning....YES!
nick
Rick Bowen <rollnloop@hotmail.com> wrote:
>From: Laurie Hoffman
>To: lightning-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning fiberglass factory visit
>Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:34:41 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>And what's wrong with being a die hard taildragger
>fan????
Yup,
I gotta' tell ya Laurie....it took me a few tries at landing my Lightning
before I could get out of the "get the tail down and 3-point" mentality....
Nose rollers---ugh, I had to "re-learn" how to land a nose-roller!
Thanks for the help Nick!!(did I scare 'ya?)
Rick
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Aviating in Virginia |
Hey Rick:
Sorry we missed you today? The weather was great. Ryan was flying one of
two Lightnings off and on all day.
I finished up what I needed to work on today, so I came home tonight instead
of staying another day.
Sorry I missed you.
Jim!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rickss
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:40 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Aviating in Virginia
Thanks guys, I just might do that. Lets see what the weather does.
--------
Cherokee driver, but feeling the need for speed!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128429#128429
Message 10
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| Subject: | Another two days on N730AL |
Spent another two days at Green Landings. Man, the weather was great and I
made some more progress on the airplane. Today, I caught some nice videos
to go along with the Esqual vids that I took last time I was down there.
I will post them to a web site so that you guys can get to them if you wish.
Jim!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Another two days on N730AL |
To lightning group
This is nick i am waiting for the rest of my family to arrive here in pasco WA,
what a hole. the terminal that is, any ways it is 11:45 your time and i am
bored, any question about lightning stuff i will be checking the mail on occasion
with the lightning list. won't be back to the shop for a week, until then
happy hunting..
nick
Jim Langley <pequeajim@gmail.com> wrote:
Spent another two days at Green Landings. Man, the weather was great and
I made some more progress on the airplane. Today, I caught some nice videos
to go along with the Esqual vids that I took last time I was down there.
I will post them to a web site so that you guys can get to them if you wish.
Jim!
---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Another two days on N730AL |
To Nick,
I am in Yakima, about 90 miles up the road. If you arrived in Pasco via
Lightning I sure would like to meet up with you to possibly get a demo
flight, but at least talk with you and get a few questions answered. . But
I suspect you flew commercial if you are in the terminal. It would be great
to meet you in person after all of those emails.
Steve Sundquist
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nick
otterback
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Another two days on N730AL
To lightning group
This is nick i am waiting for the rest of my family to arrive here in pasco
WA, what a hole. the terminal that is, any ways it is 11:45 your time and i
am bored, any question about lightning stuff i will be checking the mail on
occasion with the lightning list. won't be back to the shop for a week,
until then happy hunting..
nick
Jim Langley <pequeajim@gmail.com> wrote:
Spent another two days at Green Landings. Man, the weather was great and I
made some more progress on the airplane. Today, I caught some nice videos
to go along with the Esqual vids that I took that gives answers, not web
links.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Lightning Videos |
I am in the process of putting up some videos, (web quality), of the
Lightning and a local Esqual.
Go to http://www.jimslightning.com and select the video that you want to
watch. I setup the site just for this, (one page).
These files are BIG! Better to right click on the link and save to your
hard disk.
Listen to the engine and prop sound of the Esqual, (Juan's). Sound like a
mini P-51!
Jim!
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