Today's Message Index:
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1. 04:47 AM - Re: Taildraggers forever....... (Bob Haas)
2. 04:48 AM - Re: Taildraggers forever....... (Kayberg@AOL.COM)
3. 05:21 AM - Re: Taildraggers forever....... (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
4. 09:39 AM - Re: Lightning Tailwheel Pic (Rick Bowen)
Message 1
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Subject: | Taildraggers forever....... |
You are absolutely right Brian. I fly my Pt 19, WW11 open cockpit
trainer park it and bust off in my Alpi, the funny thing is the flight
numbers are all most the same, except the PT is in MPH and the Alpi is
Knots. But in both cases you must pay attention and feel the aircraft.
Thanks for all your comments. Bob Haas.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Whittingham
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Taildraggers forever.......
<dashvii@hotmail.com>
Laurie,
Here in the United States, you don't have a liscense for a tailwheel
airplane, but rather an instructor sign off that says that you had ground
and flight instruction. Liscenses in the United States are Private Pilot,
Commercial Pilot, and Airline Transport Pilot. Ratings, in which you
recieve an addition to your ticket are Instrument, Multi-Engine. All your
instructor ratings are on a seperate ticket and are also considered ratings.
Sign-offs include high performance (greater than 200 hp engine), high
altitude for anything with a cieling that is rated higher than 25,000 feet,
Tailwheel, spins (not that you can't do them, but spin awareness is required
before the checkride for flight instructors), and complex aircraft with
constant speed props and retractable gear.
As far as if taildraggers are safer than nosedraggers....
I think that we can only compare apples and oranges here. Basically, it's
not a hot topic anymore since most new aircraft have nosewheels. It's not a
major killing point of pilots like weather is. I think that the only thing
that we can really say for sure is that a tailwheel version of the same
aircraft with the same pilot will cost more in insurance. It is because of
accident rates, but the way that insurance works is simply saying, ok,
there's more accidents. This doesn't take currency into account, total time
(not saying that won't make it cheaper on you), or anything like that, but
simply more landing and takeoff bumps & bruises.
My wife's grandfather was in the Army Air Corp in WWII. They would
typically solo tailwheel airplanes as little as 1-3 hours, that's total
time, not just tailwheel! Sure, there was a fair share of accidents, but I
think you'd find after they had about 10-15 hours of tailwheel time those
accident rates nearly disappeared. The key here is currency, military
currency, which most of us don't know how nice that is. It also depends on
the plane. Planes that have a long distance from the CG to the tail, planes
that have a high horsepower and low weight, or a lot of side area to the
tail. For instance, a DC-3 in a 15 knot crosswind is just too much, in a
citabria I can handle it all day long.
In summary, Pilots should either, Be Good, Be Current, or Be Lucky, and that
goes for both tailwheel and trigear pilots. Brian W.
From: Laurie Hoffman <lozhoffman@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Taildraggers forever.......
Hi All,
There have been excellent overviews of tail dragger vs
'nose dragger' posted by buz, nick and others which
really summarise everything important about the
comparison. Horses for courses really as has been so
well outlined. Thats the great thing about
flying...you can select from such a huge range of
types, performance, configuration and operating and
construction costs.
In one post there was reference to the increased risk
posed by taildraggers at the end of a long day due
fatigue. Reading the comments about how tail draggers
require the pilot to think more, work a little harder
and remain at a higher level of conditions awareness
near the ground, brought back memories of some
thousands of tows in Super Cub, Pawnee and Calair
glider tugs. As most often the only rostered pilot for
the day it was not uncommon for that to entail 20-30
flights and on rarer occasions 30-40.
This tended to hone one's focus on each and every
approach. Even though increasingly tired as the day
progressed it was surprising at how little the quality
of the landings deteriorated. I put this down to the
currency and recency aspects but more so to the
heightened awareness of wind conditions and
preparedness for any cross wind influence. in other
words, the taildragger extracted a high level of
performance from a very average pilot.
I dont know about licencing in the US but in Oz,
sperate licences are required for the two
configurations. Having experienced that challenge,
nose draggers tend to land more automatically and just
dont provide as much satisfaction. Actually achieving
a comfort level in tail draggers by getting enough
consolidated experience under your belt is the greater
challenge. Once there though, its great fun.
On nother matters, Brian was kind enough to email me
the flight manual (June 06) for the Lightening that
Buz developed. Conratulations on such a highly
readable, informative and logically set out piece of
writing.
Also, now that there are quite a few Lightnings
airborne, would operators mind posting some achieved
data on cruise economy and performance?
Laurie
Sydney
--- N1BZRich@aol.com wrote:
> Doug wrote - "Somehow looks, lighter weight,
> slightly better performance can
> seem less important when you have lost control of
> your bird and are awaiting
> an impact with a non-runway environment."
>
> Ops, sounds like you might be one of those "half
> empty glass" guys (verses
> half full) that has already decided he is going to
> ground loop eventually.
> Kind of like those that say if you haven't landed
> gear up, you eventually will.
> I am more of a positive thinker and believe that
> "PPPPPP" - prior planning
> prevents piss poor performance. At any rate,
> differences of opinions is what
> makes horse races - and my horse is faster than
> yours. :-)
> Blue Skies,
> Buz
>
> PS: No, I don't really have a horse, but I do have
> 400 of them under the
> hood. Did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last
> night.
>
>
>
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
Laurie
02 46531233
0425 703226
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit
the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Taildraggers forever....... |
In a message dated 8/17/2007 8:16:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lozhoffman@yahoo.com writes:
This tended to hone one's focus on each and every
approach. Even though increasingly tired as the day
progressed it was surprising at how little the quality
of the landings deteriorated. I put this down to the
currency and recency aspects but more so to the
heightened awareness of wind conditions and
preparedness for any cross wind influence. in other
words, the taildragger extracted a high level of
performance from a very average pilot.
I dont know about licencing in the US but in Oz,
sperate licences are required for the two
configurations. Having experienced that challenge,
nose draggers tend to land more automatically and just
dont provide as much satisfaction. Actually achieving
a comfort level in tail draggers by getting enough
consolidated experience under your belt is the greater
challenge. Once there though, its great fun.
Just an opinion, but this writer brings up a point I have been thinking
about but not communicating well.
We hear from Buz and his 29 years of flying a Pitts (not to mention a career
in the US Air Force as a pilot!) and from this writer who flew many missions
in a taildragger. I agree that if you have good to exceptional pilot skills
AND fly frequently, the taildragger can be a no-brainer.
But what about a Private Pilot trained in Cessna 150's, who has a
taildragger checkout in a Cessna 140 but only 140 hours total time in nice weather?
Suppose he buys a Lightning, discovers how easy it is to make 500 mile trips,
loads to aft CG and launches into a trip at dusk into gusting crosswinds on a
grass strip? Would you rather see him in a taildragger or a trigear?
Due to excessive busyness, I havent flown much in the last couple months. I
took off in a SkyRanger the other morning for a bit of fun and games. I
noticed I gave no thought to the landings. I just pulled the power off at the
bottom of a mild wingover after a high speed pass down the runway, did a full
slip one way and then to the other to loose a bit of speed and since I
couldnt decide which wheel to land on, I just landed on both mains! I am so
familiar with the airplane, I just dont think about it much. When I parked it,
a
student pilot remarked how easy I made it look and that he was having trouble
with his landings. I had little to say to him. It just seems so simple to
me. But I only have 600 hours (Commercial, IFR) not the thousands that
Buz has or perhaps this writer.
Perhaps I am concerned about nothing. But a low time or low skill pilot in
a taildragger Lightning would worry me more than that same pilot in a trigear.
Doug Koenigsberg
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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Subject: | Re: Taildraggers forever....... |
Bob,
Tell us more about your Alpi. I assume it would be a 200 model based on
your comment about comparative speed (kts vs. mph) with your PT-19. It is a
good looking aircraft, but I don't recall seeing one (other than perhaps at
OSH or LAL). How does it fly? And speaking of the Ryan, did you see the red
Super Ryan with the 220 HP Continental at OSH this year? That would make a
fun airplane.
Blue Skies,
Buz
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 4
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Subject: | Lightning Tailwheel Pic |
Brian,
Your "TD Lightning" drawing sure looks sharp!
Nice to have an idea what a taildragger Lightning could look like....
Rick
N727RB
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