---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/13/07: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:46 AM - Re: Re: More Nemesis Chatter (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 2. 05:36 AM - Re: More Nemesis Chatter (pequeajim) 3. 06:05 AM - Re: parts (pequeajim) 4. 07:06 AM - Re: parts (nick otterback) 5. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: More Nemesis Chatter (nick otterback) 6. 07:16 AM - It's going to the paint shop! (Jim Langley) 7. 05:04 PM - Re: It's going to the paint shop! (rickss) 8. 05:55 PM - Re Jims Paint Job (Tex Mantell) 9. 06:16 PM - Re: It's going to the paint shop! (Jerry Van Heeswyk) 10. 07:41 PM - Re: It's going to the paint shop! (Colin J. Kennedy) 11. 07:48 PM - Re: It's going to the paint shop! (Colin J. Kennedy) 12. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: More Nemesis Chatter (Brian Whittingham) 13. 09:03 PM - Re: Re: More Nemesis Chatter (Brian Whittingham) 14. 10:39 PM - Re: Re: More Nemesis Chatter (Charles Dewey) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:33 AM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: More Nemesis Chatter It is very likely that the Arion folks will in fact ship you what you need. But I would gently suggest a slight attitude adjustment. I am sure there are some manufacturers that have spent the considerable money to make both the directions to build and parts supplied very exact. But frankly, that is not the real standard in the industry. I could articulate all the reasons for it, but it doesnt matter. We cant control it. We can complain, but it doesnt make us feel better, only worse. As some one noted, " When you express your negative emotions, you dont get rid of them, you only intensify the feelings and clarify the reaction." I would not suggest what to change your expectations TO; only to suggest that if you lower your expectations of both the build manual and the hardware supplied, you will be happier. The building of aircraft carries enough frustrations. When you are flying your Lightning at mach 1, 10 feet above the sagebrush, you probably wont be thinking of a couple extra bolts and washers you had to buy. Doug Koenigsberg n a message dated 9/12/2007 3:40:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sales@billandruth.net writes: I have received my hardware bundle (nuts, washers and bolts) from Aircraft Spruce. I was told that there are not enough of them to build the airplane and I will have to order more. That does not seem right to me as I expected a complete kit when I purchased this one. My previous experience was with the Kitfox which had a very detailed builders manual and every piece of hardware necessary to build the kit. Any shortages I noted during the inventory process were forwarded to the manufacturer and they filled them quickly. Have any of you experienced this issue before and how did you handle it, i.e. just order some more from Aircraft Spruce or request more from Arion? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:49 AM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: More Nemesis Chatter From: "pequeajim" sales(at)billandruth.net wrote: > Hi from sunny Tucson, > > s trained to do it and do it well I did or I wouldn't be here to tell you so. > > My Lightning kit is scheduled to be here on the 21st of this month! A week from this Friday!!! > > I have received my hardware bundle (nuts, washers and bolts) from Aircraft Spruce. I was told that there are not enough of them to build the airplane and I will have to order more. That does not seem right to me as I expected a complete kit when I purchased this one. My previous experience was with the Kitfox which had a very detailed builders manual and every piece of hardware necessary to build the kit. Any shortages I noted during the inventory process were forwarded to the manufacturer and they filled them quickly. Have any of you experienced this issue before and how did you handle it, i.e. just order some more from Aircraft Spruce or request more from Arion? > > Looking forward to your replys.......Bill > [b] Hi Bill: I'll bet you're as excited about your Lightning as I was when mine was ready to ship! It's a great aircraft and terrific company to work with. I'm having a good time working with the Green Landings guys and learning something new each trip down there. I hope you enjoy the build as much as I do. As far as the hardware kit and missing parts, yes, I would order some extra nuts and bolts to have on hand, (more for convenience). I have found the guys at Arion to be VERY good when it comes to customer support and would expect them to ship you items that are missing; after all, they do advertise a complete kit, so take them at their word on this. You may however find that some items are just best to have around so you do not have to wait for them to ship you something before you can move on to the next step in the build process. If it's something that you feel you shouldn't have had to purchase on your own, call them. I'm sure they will make it right and replenish your stock. Best of luck with your build and subsequent flying of the Lightning. Remember to send lots of pictures. We love pictures, especially seeing that Lightning grin after your first flight. Jim! http://www.jimslightning.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134173#134173 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:41 AM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: parts From: "pequeajim" I moved this over from the other thread. Ted is right on with his comment... sales(at)billandruth.net wrote: > Hi from sunny Tucson, > > My Lightning kit is scheduled to be here on the 21st of this month! A week from this Friday!!! > > I have received my hardware bundle (nuts, washers and bolts) from Aircraft Spruce. I was told that there are not enough of them to build the airplane and I will have to order more. That does not seem right to me as I expected a complete kit when I purchased this one. My previous experience was with the Kitfox which had a very detailed builders manual and every piece of hardware necessary to build the kit. Any shortages I noted during the inventory process were forwarded to the manufacturer and they filled them quickly. Have any of you experienced this issue before and how did you handle it, i.e. just order some more from Aircraft Spruce or request more from Arion? > > Looking forward to your replys.......Bill > [b] Hi Bill: I'll bet you're as excited about your Lightning as I was when mine was ready to ship! It's a great aircraft and terrific company to work with. I'm having a good time working with the Green Landings guys and learning something new each trip down there. I hope you enjoy the build as much as I do. As far as the hardware kit and missing parts, yes, I would order some extra nuts and bolts to have on hand, (more for convenience). I have found the guys at Arion to be VERY good when it comes to customer support and would expect them to ship you items that are missing; after all, they do advertise a complete kit, so take them at their word on this. You may however find that some items are just best to have around so you do not have to wait for them to ship you something before you can move on to the next step in the build process. If it's something that you feel you shouldn't have had to purchase on your own, call them. I'm sure they will make it right and replenish your stock. Best of luck with your build and subsequent flying of the Lightning. Remember to send lots of pictures. We love pictures, especially seeing that Lightning grin after your first flight. Jim! http://www.jimslightning.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134178#134178 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:23 AM PST US From: nick otterback Subject: Re: Lightning-List: parts To the Group.. Thank you Tex for your reply. I am not sure who hinted that you might have to buy extra hardware to finish the kit, but that is not Arion Aircrafts intent at all. We hope to provide you with as a complete kit as possible. With fibergalss aircraft it is not easy to supply one specific bolt for a poart that bolts to the glass, therefore we choose a bolt that should work and supply you with correct amount, than we also supply you with the same amount of hardware for the sizes above and below the boklt size. There should more than enough nuts, washers, rivets and other hardware to complete the aircraft. If you do not have enough we will supply you with the correct bolts in a timely manner, we have a large stock of hardware here and most likley can go out the same day we are notified. I have not had to date any sigificant complaints of lacking hardware and when we do the kit is revised to include these items. I would ask who is Lacking hardware and have them email or call us so we can improve the kit if needed... Nick Otterback Arion Aircraft LLC Tex Mantell wrote: To: Bill in Tucson Hi, don't get upset over missing parts. Arion like all companies have suppliers that don't deliver parts on time as contracted. I have had very good response from Mark and Nick when I was short a part. They always get them to me one way or another. You will have plenty to do when the kit arrives and as you read ahead in the manual you can plan around any missing part. You will love the finished product and that's what counts. Tex --------------------------------- Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:08 AM PST US From: nick otterback Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: More Nemesis Chatter It goes fast and turn left....enough said... Nick Brian Whittingham wrote: Charles, I think that it probably is a good flying cross-country plane, but my point was that it was really designed as a racer, not a cross-country flyer. John just got out of the hospital. His wife donated a kidney to him. Seems that both are doing well and he is flying in this years air races, and boy what a time! Actually the P-51 mustang would do about 435mph at 25,000 feet. Of course it's slower at lower altitudes. It also had a 1690hp 1650 cu in engine. The British Hawker Fury and Sea Fury were a round engined fighter and would do about 460mph at 18,000 feet, and the German Tank Ta-152 would do about 472 at 41,000 feet with boost and methanol water injection. All of these planes were WWII planes. I know that the stock P-51's are running around the 340-350mph mark at 5,000 feet altitude, and the stock sea fury about 360-380mph at Reno. Of course the fury has around 3,500hp with an R-3350 engine, or about 4,000hp with the R-4360. There's also a Bearcat, Navy WWII called Rare Bear that has a 3350 putting out 4,000 ponies. If you've never been to an air race it's something to see. It's also something to hear! I'm wearing a shirt right now of Precious Metal which was a P-51 mustang, but converted to use a Rolls Royce Griffon of about 2200hp. It's about 500 cubic inches larger in displacement than a Merlin. It has a set of contra-rotating props, that's 6 of them on one shaft, 3 spinning in one direction and 3 the other to help cancel out torque. There's some wild stuff out there. Tsunami, a custom built racer, looked like a smaller, sleaker mustang, unofficially turned 530mph at 5000' msl. (couldn't do a second run for the record b/c of problems, and then wrecked on landing) There was Miss Ashley II which was a scratch built P-51 fuselage, firewall forward cowling of a spitfire, with lear jet wings and horizontal stabilizer, instead of a belly scoop a NACA scoop, and that contra-rotating griffon. There was the Pond Racer which was a Rutan design, twin engined composite with Nissan automotive engines. There are some wild looking customs being built right now. There's one with an unducted fan, think cuisinart and looks like a T-38 jet. There's one that is a custom built fuselage with T-2 buckeye wings and tail, F-86 airbrakes and a big ole radial in front. Oh and it's a tricycle gear. There's also one for sale that is partially complete that has a custom fuselage, a 4360 engine of 4000hp, a modified sea fury wing section and F-86 tail, all boosted controls. There's some really impressive stuff, some are really great looking planes. Lots of good stories, and unfortunately some planes and pilots that aren't here anymore. I love this time of year, a week of with the fastest motorsport in the world!! Brian W. From: Charles Dewey Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: More Nemesis Chatter Brian- I had no idea a P-51 Mustang was that fast. I thought they were slow WWII planes. By the way, I had a conversation with Jon Sharp about a year ago and he said that the NXT actually is a great cross-country machine. Charles _________________________________________________________________ Can you find the hidden words? Take a break and play Seekadoo! http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_hotmailtextlink1 --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:50 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Lightning-List: It's going to the paint shop! Well, we finally settled on the final paint scheme. Even though I kind of liked the red scheme the best, I was out voted by the Baltimore Oriole fans in my family and we ended up with white and orange with black trim. I'm hoping to see the aircraft painted and ready for the panel installation when I get back from my trip to Maine. I guess it's not so bad since I like the colors too. The final orange will be a bit brighter than the pictures I have attached. It's kind of consistent with how I have painted all my R/C helicopters in the past anyway... I have a MGL Avionics Odyssey on order and will be installing that in the cockpit along with some backup gages and a Garmin SL-40 and GTX-327. I'll have a complete update with the panel layout on my website later this month. Since up until last month, all of my flight experience has been in Cessna aircraft, I have started flying an Evektor SportStar to get used to the low wing/stick and rudder setup. I'm not a fan of the higher rpm Rotax, but the rest should be somewhat similar, just slower. Unfortunately, it is the only thing available that resembles a Lightning, (although quite a stretch). I'm sorry i will miss most of you at the fly-in this year. I need to save my vacation days for the Jabiru engine seminar in October. Next year I will fly my Lightning there! Cheers Jim! http://www.jimslightning.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:25 PM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: It's going to the paint shop! From: "rickss" Hey Jim, That is going to be one fancy paint job. I was up at Green Landings last week to talk with Ryan and take a quick demo flight. I saw your project while I was up there. It looks like it is coming along rather well. Keep up the good work! -Rick -------- Cherokee driver, but feeling the need for speed! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134286#134286 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:22 PM PST US From: "Tex Mantell" Subject: Lightning-List: Re Jims Paint Job Jim, like the paint scheme and wonder how it was done. Did you have the company(aircraft paint schemes) do the lay out. If so what is the cost and what do they provide for their fee? Tex ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Langley To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:16 AM Subject: Lightning-List: It's going to the paint shop! Well, we finally settled on the final paint scheme. Even though I kind of liked the red scheme the best, I was out voted by the Baltimore Oriole fans in my family and we ended up with white and orange with black trim. I'm hoping to see the aircraft painted and ready for the panel installation when I get back from my trip to Maine. I guess it's not so bad since I like the colors too. The final orange will be a bit brighter than the pictures I have attached. It's kind of consistent with how I have painted all my R/C helicopters in the past anyway... I have a MGL Avionics Odyssey on order and will be installing that in the cockpit along with some backup gages and a Garmin SL-40 and GTX-327. I'll have a complete update with the panel layout on my website later this month. Since up until last month, all of my flight experience has been in Cessna aircraft, I have started flying an Evektor SportStar to get used to the low wing/stick and rudder setup. I'm not a fan of the higher rpm Rotax, but the rest should be somewhat similar, just slower. Unfortunately, it is the only thing available that resembles a Lightning, (although quite a stretch). I'm sorry i will miss most of you at the fly-in this year. I need to save my vacation days for the Jabiru engine seminar in October. Next year I will fly my Lightning there! Cheers Jim! http://www.jimslightning.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:39 PM PST US From: "Jerry Van Heeswyk" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: It's going to the paint shop! Jim, I REALLY like your paint scheme. I guess it is the R/C modeler in us. I always painted my models in vivid colors so that it was easier to tell orientation at a distance. I guess I have become conditioned to like fancy paint jobs. Yours will be a dandy. You need to send a picture when it is all done. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Langley To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 7:16 AM Subject: Lightning-List: It's going to the paint shop! Well, we finally settled on the final paint scheme. Even though I kind of liked the red scheme the best, I was out voted by the Baltimore Oriole fans in my family and we ended up with white and orange with black trim. I'm hoping to see the aircraft painted and ready for the panel installation when I get back from my trip to Maine. I guess it's not so bad since I like the colors too. The final orange will be a bit brighter than the pictures I have attached. It's kind of consistent with how I have painted all my R/C helicopters in the past anyway... I have a MGL Avionics Odyssey on order and will be installing that in the cockpit along with some backup gages and a Garmin SL-40 and GTX-327. I'll have a complete update with the panel layout on my website later this month. Since up until last month, all of my flight experience has been in Cessna aircraft, I have started flying an Evektor SportStar to get used to the low wing/stick and rudder setup. I'm not a fan of the higher rpm Rotax, but the rest should be somewhat similar, just slower. Unfortunately, it is the only thing available that resembles a Lightning, (although quite a stretch). I'm sorry i will miss most of you at the fly-in this year. I need to save my vacation days for the Jabiru engine seminar in October. Next year I will fly my Lightning there! Cheers Jim! http://www.jimslightning.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:26 PM PST US From: "Colin J. Kennedy" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: It's going to the paint shop! Do you think a fancy paint job might help a novice pilot avoid spatial disorientation in MVFR then? :-) Colin K. OK -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Van Heeswyk Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 8:16 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: It's going to the paint shop! Jim, I REALLY like your paint scheme. I guess it is the R/C modeler in us. I always painted my models in vivid colors so that it was easier to tell orientation at a distance. I guess I have become conditioned to like fancy paint jobs. Yours will be a dandy. You need to send a picture when it is all done. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Langley Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 7:16 AM Subject: Lightning-List: It's going to the paint shop! Well, we finally settled on the final paint scheme. Even though I kind of liked the red scheme the best, I was out voted by the Baltimore Oriole fans in my family and we ended up with white and orange with black trim. I'm hoping to see the aircraft painted and ready for the panel installation when I get back from my trip to Maine. I guess it's not so bad since I like the colors too. The final orange will be a bit brighter than the pictures I have attached. It's kind of consistent with how I have painted all my R/C helicopters in the past anyway... I have a MGL Avionics Odyssey on order and will be installing that in the cockpit along with some backup gages and a Garmin SL-40 and GTX-327. I'll have a complete update with the panel layout on my website later this month. Since up until last month, all of my flight experience has been in Cessna aircraft, I have started flying an Evektor SportStar to get used to the low wing/stick and rudder setup. I'm not a fan of the higher rpm Rotax, but the rest should be somewhat similar, just slower. Unfortunately, it is the only thing available that resembles a Lightning, (although quite a stretch). I'm sorry i will miss most of you at the fly-in this year. I need to save my vacation days for the Jabiru engine seminar in October. Next year I will fly my Lightning there! Cheers Jim! http://www.jimslightning.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:20 PM PST US From: "Colin J. Kennedy" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: It's going to the paint shop! Jim, Looks great! I am sorry I am not going to get the chance to meet you at Shelbyville having followed your Lightning choice from its early origins and being on the same journey myself, but about 6 months behind you. I will be really interested in your first Lightning flying experiences, because, like you, most of my experience is in Cessnas. Although recently I flew a Tecnam Sierra and Rans S19 demo plane. I did enjoy them both, but neither are as quick (LSA) and I doubt either are as responsive as the Lightning, so I am anxious to assess whether the Lightning would stretch my skills too much. Best regards Colin K. OK -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:16 AM Subject: Lightning-List: It's going to the paint shop! Well, we finally settled on the final paint scheme. Even though I kind of liked the red scheme the best, I was out voted by the Baltimore Oriole fans in my family and we ended up with white and orange with black trim. I'm hoping to see the aircraft painted and ready for the panel installation when I get back from my trip to Maine. I guess it's not so bad since I like the colors too. The final orange will be a bit brighter than the pictures I have attached. It's kind of consistent with how I have painted all my R/C helicopters in the past anyway... I have a MGL Avionics Odyssey on order and will be installing that in the cockpit along with some backup gages and a Garmin SL-40 and GTX-327. I'll have a complete update with the panel layout on my website later this month. Since up until last month, all of my flight experience has been in Cessna aircraft, I have started flying an Evektor SportStar to get used to the low wing/stick and rudder setup. I'm not a fan of the higher rpm Rotax, but the rest should be somewhat similar, just slower. Unfortunately, it is the only thing available that resembles a Lightning, (although quite a stretch). I'm sorry i will miss most of you at the fly-in this year. I need to save my vacation days for the Jabiru engine seminar in October. Next year I will fly my Lightning there! Cheers Jim! http://www.jimslightning.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:07 PM PST US From: "Brian Whittingham" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: More Nemesis Chatter Here in Houston we dodged a close one last night with Hurrican Humberto. We didn't have enough warning for that one. If we get 2 inches of rain in an hour then I'll have water in my apartment here. We've been close several times before. Anyhow, today at the air races the two NXT's both turned in 365 times, but John Sharp's Nemesis cut a guide pylon. Can't remember how they score that, but time is based on speeds and a perceived line of flight distance around the pylons. If you cut inside of a pylon they add so many seconds (I think 7) for each lap left in the race and rescore your speed that way. So, depending on which lap it was he could be looking at 380-390 actual speeds. Last night a biplane nosed over on landing. Several different planes of different types have maydayed out of races including a lady that I know in a Pitts. All of them are fine. Today they did have an L-39 jet crash in front of the grandstands though. Hit wake turbulence and got flipped over, went in left wing first inverted from what I hear. Pilot died instantly. Luckily nobody at home pylon or spectators were hurt. (why they have deadlines for the aircraft) My favorite Lancair Legacy that usually runs 370's is without engine at the moment. Hope they get it running. Fly Low, Fly Fast, Turn Left! Brian W. _________________________________________________________________ Discover sweet stuff waiting for you at the Messenger Cafe. Claim your treat today! http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_SeptHMtagline2 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:42 PM PST US From: "Brian Whittingham" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: More Nemesis Chatter Couple of pics taken by various individuals and posted on a message board of a couple of the sport class (kitplane) racers: Thunder Mustang http://www.warbirdaeropress.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=253.0;attach=1344;image Crazy supersized engined Lancair Legacy: http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=8140 Relentless NXT, Love that paint job! http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=8154 Brian W. _________________________________________________________________ Gear up for Halo 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:39 PM PST US From: Charles Dewey Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: More Nemesis Chatter Brian, You need passwords to see the photos. We can't see them. The whole deal with the Nemesis as a X-country machine is that if you are primarily travelling alone or with one other non-large person, over a long distance, the Nemesis might make a lot more sense than a VLJ. At a fraction of the cost of something comprably as fast as a Cirrus jet or Lancair evolution or even a lancair IV-P. It seems that for the speed, fuel burn (cruise @ 300 kts, 22gph) and comfort (it looks like a cozy cabin from the sloair.com website), the Nemesis is actually a bargain for the jet-set type who needs to get somewhere really fast. Just like the Lightning is a great deal for someone looking for speed and safety and low fuel burn. I know you and Nick seem to only be able to visualize the Nemesis as a race plane. But with a new engine in a Nemesis, if you have an engine out at 20K feet, you're in just as much trouble in a Cirrus or Piper jet as you will be in the Nemesis. Charles --- Brian Whittingham wrote: > Whittingham" > > Couple of pics taken by various individuals and > posted on a message board of > a couple of the sport class (kitplane) racers: > > Thunder Mustang > http://www.warbirdaeropress.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=253.0;attach=1344;image > > Crazy supersized engined Lancair Legacy: > http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=8140 > > Relentless NXT, Love that paint job! > http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=8154 > > Brian W. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Gear up for Halo 3 with free downloads and an > exclusive offer. > http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1 > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List > > Web Forums! > > > > > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.