---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/24/07: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:29 AM - Breakers and switches (Jim Langley) 2. 12:07 PM - Re: know of a fast plane? (Charles Dewey) 3. 03:51 PM - Re: Lightning Jet! Trip to Green Landings- Ryan's awesome Lightning for sale and Greg's SkyRanger (ryan gross) 4. 06:14 PM - Re: Lightning builders (Mark Stauffer) 5. 06:53 PM - Re: Lightning builders (Colin J. Kennedy) 6. 10:38 PM - Re: Re: know of a fast plane? (Brian Whittingham) 7. 11:03 PM - Re: Re: know of a fast plane? (Brian Whittingham) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:16 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Lightning-List: Breakers and switches I know I have talked about this on the list before, so excuse me for bringing this up again. I want to get some feedback from you all as to what size breaker-switches you have used on your panel. I have my instruments mounted, (except the Odyssey), and need to install the switches. My approach is that anything that is not switched and needs protection is on a breaker. Anything that is switched like the main, avionics, etc. will be on a switch/breaker. What I am looking for is feedback for sizing of the switch/breakers on your panel. Like, Main (30 amps), Avionics (10 amps), etc... Jim! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:54 PM PST US From: Charles Dewey Subject: Lightning-List: RE: know of a fast plane? Brian- i know you have you're pulse on the aviation industry. Know of any plane that can go over 250mph that is a 1-seater without crazy fuel burn and decent safety record? charles --- Brian Whittingham wrote: > Whittingham > > > Translation of first paragraph talking about a > member of the flying club saying that the guy had a > lot of time in this plane and other ultralights. He > says the plane has one of the best engines on the > market and is able to fly both fast and extremely > slow. > > > > Second paragraph says the aircraft crashed onto a > road below, two occupants died, weather was sunny > and the winds were calm. The owner/pilot, a > Policeman in a nearby city, had recently built his > own airplane. Cause of the crash was unknown and is > being investigated. > > > > The last paragraph states that two people died in a > crash when they landed on a golf course. > > > > I think I basically got that all right. These two > seem to be old accidents though, from 2003. Not > sure if any investigation was completed, but it > would appear, at least in the first accident that > the aircraft lost control, apparently unrelated to > weather. In all liklihood this would appear to be > pilot error. (due to the fact the weather was great > and the aircraft lost control. Also human error > being much more likely than any type of component > failure) Not really sure what this has to do with > the present day or the Lightning for that matter. > Nor how this helps us with safety unless there is a > part 2. Brian W. > > > > Subject: Lightning-List: Re: To Doug K. // Esqual > safety > > From: dececk@hotmail.com > > Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:19:30 -0700 > > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > > > > > > hi > > here you can find some accident about esqual in > spanish > > at this list, add the latest one: yesterday a > friend of mine had a deadly accident with esqual... > > > > sorry for my english > > > > > > > > > > 27-09-03 > > Dos pilotos mueren calcinados al estrellarse > > > > ultraligero en el casco urbano de Muga. (Esqual) > > > > > > > > La zona donde se produjo el accidente con la > avioneta es un rea de vuelo perfecta; en > realidad tan buena como cualquiera de las que se > utilizan para la prctica de este deporte, ya que, > teniendo en cuenta que no es la altura de los > aviones comerciales de pasajeros, del Ejrcito o de > otros usos oficiales, no hay altas montaas, ni > turbulencias, ni corrientes de aire o incidencias > que influyan decisivamente en la navegacin. Se > trata de zonas muy similares en toda Espaa, donde > los nicos espacios restringidos para esta > prctica son los parques naturales, zonas > militares, aproximaciones a aeropuertos y tambin > est prohibido sobrevolar ciudades. > > > > As, los viajeros volaban en una zona plana y en > un da meteorolgicamente adecuado para este > deporte, tal como explica el director de > competiciones del Club Aeromodelismo Zamora, Antonio > Coco, quien adems pertenece al de aeroestacin > (vuelo en globo) y practica el vuelo en ultraligero. > > > > Antonio Coco rechaza pronunciarse sobre las > posibles causas del accidente por mera prudencia, > pero s conoca a una de las vctimas del > accidente J.G.G. y sabe que tena experiencia de > vuelo: slo el ultraligero que se supone que > pilotaba tena cuarenta horas de vuelo, luego al > menos con el 'Squal' ya haba practicado un tiempo > considerable en este tipo de aparatos, sin contar > las que hubiera hecho con otros. Desde luego, > dispona del ttulo de vuelo deportivo que expide > Aviacin Civil, tras las correspondientes pruebas > tericas y prcticas. > > > > Del mismo modo, tal como seal otro aficionado, > Carlos Martn, el aparato era un modelo nuevo, > con uno de los mejores motores del mercado. El > 'Squal', es una avioneta rpida, que entra en > prdida (desciende) a menos de cien kilmetros por > hora. Este tipo de ultraligeros tienen una > autonoma de vuelo de hasta dos horas, en funcin > de la atmsfera, de la direccin del aire, del > peso o del nmero de pasajeros. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 03-10-03 > > > > > > > > Un polica local y un rumano mueren al > estrellarse con su U.L.M. (Escual) en Tortosa. > > > > > > > > El aparato se precipit sobre un camino y sus dos > ocupantes fallecieron en el acto. > > > > Dos personas mueren al estrellarse, hacia las 13 > horas, el ultraligero con el que sobrevolaban el > trmino municipal de Tortosa (Tarragona). > > Los fallecidos han sido identificados como Josep > Maria Snchez, de 41 aos y nacionalidad > espaola, y C.V, de 40 aos y nacionalidad rumana. > El ultraligero, pilotada por Snchez, que era > polica local en Tortosa, ha cado sobre el camino > del Igallo de Xies, cerca de la carretera C-12, por > causas que todava se desconocen. > > La investigacin est a cargo de agentes de la > Guardia Civil, que ya se han puesto en contacto con > la Direccin General de Aviacin Civil para > obtener ms datos sobre el aparato para poder > instruir diligencias. > > Al parecer, las dos vctimas, cuya relacin > entre ambos se desconoce, viajaban en una antigua > avioneta transformada en ultraligero, segn fuentes > de la Guardia Civil. Josep Maria Snchez, vecino de > Roquetes, casado y con tres hijas, segn han > comentado algunos de sus conocidos, se haba > construido en los ltimos tiempos su propia > avioneta. > > Las condiciones meteorolgicas hoy en las Tierras > del Ebro son buenas, luce el sol y no sopla el > viento. Hasta el lugar de los hechos se han > trasladado efectivos de la Guardia Civil, Mossos > d'Esquadra, Polica Local y Bomberos, as como el > juez de guardia de Tortosa que ha procedido, hacia > las tres de la tarde, al levantamiento de los > cadveres para su traslado hasta el tanatorio de > Tortosa. > > > > > > > > 20-10-03 > > > > Accidente de un Escual en Moi, Barcelona. > > > > El piloto, Francisco Velasco y su acompaante, un > hombre de nacionalidad finlandesa, fallecieron al > estrellarse el ultraligero en el que viajaban sobre > un campo de golf. > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141359#141359 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > === message truncated == __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:00 PM PST US From: "ryan gross" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Jet! Trip to Green Landings- Ryan's awesome Lightning for sale and Greg's SkyRanger Just to follow up on Charles Dewey's email about my Lightning that I have forsale. Yes, this is a very nice lightning. It is a basic VFR aircraft that is ready for a Sport Pilot. It is powered by the Jabiru 3300 with mechanical lifters, there is 103hrs on the aircraft. It will have a fresh annual when the aircraft is picked up. It also has a Ground adjustable Sensenich prop. You can see pictures at www.greenlandings.com Well now the serious question. I have been asking $75,000 for the aircraft but now because I have to find extra money to buy a house. I am offering this Lightning for $68,500.00. Please call me ASAP if you are interested in getting a flight in this aircraft. It is based at Green Landings, in Hedgesville, WV. You can fly into BWI or dulles airport. We are only One hour from both airports. Ryan Gross Green Landings Flight Center, Inc SkyRanger Aircraft Arion Lightning 304-754-6010 -----Original Message----- From: Charles Dewey Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning Jet! Trip to Green Landings- Ryan's awesome Lightning for sale and Greg's SkyRanger Hi All, I was up at Green Landings in WV yesterday (right on MD/WV border) to work on my Lightning. I got to ride in Greg's new SkyRanger, which was the best SkyRanger build I have ever seen. The flat dash lets you put papers , etc. in an area where they don't fall down. The finish was extraordinary. The BRS looked like a really quality installation.... Ryan's Lightning is FOR SALE, so anyone looking for a sweet Lightning ready to fly at a great price, his is ready to go and a real HEAD-TURNER. The fit and finish on his Lightning is really tight and it is a really sweet airplane. Believe it or not, it handles even better than it looks. Ryan has over 4000 flight hours mostly in small planes and ultralights, so you know he is going to be super-aware of making sure the Lightning is true and correct. Ryan's # at Green Landings is 304 754-6010. If his was for sale before I started to build, I would have just bought his Lightning. Ryan is itching to build a jet, so anyone out there thinking of building a Lancair jet or similar (Lightning Jet?) should talk to him. Green Landings employees are a virtual who's who in terms of aviation professionals who spent their careers working on projects like the Stealth bomber and other top-secret government aviation projects. He's lucky to have such intelligent engineers and aviation specialists on his staff. Since most of the top gov't defense contractors are in the DC area, he gets some incredible people because they live in the area. I highly recommend potential builders, buyers, or anyone for that matter, check out the facilities and meet the staff at Green Landings, including the occasional friendly dog that wanders through. Charles --- "Colin J. Kennedy" wrote: > Doug from Green Landings mentioned something like > "wear tape" or "chaffing > tape" at the homecoming. Looked something like the > teflon tape you put on > plumbing threads. > > Colin K. > OK > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Tex Mantell > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 7:46 PM > To: lightning List > Subject: Lightning-List: cowl to fuse > > > Just getting to fitting the cowl and was wondering > if anyone has put any > gasket or other material arround the fuse where the > cowl mounts. There will > be some movement between the cowl and fuse and some > chaffing will take > place. Tex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:02 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning builders Colin and all, Unfortunately Bill's kit was an anomaly (or I guess fortunately depending on how you look at it). Of the 12 or 13 I've helped build in Shelbyville all of them had these holes cut out. We've talked to Custom Fiberglass about this problem and they're working hard to make sure it doesn't happen again. We appreciate the feedback and are striving to make the kit and manual better and better. Mark From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Colin J. Kennedy Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:18 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning builders Mark S. or Nic, Are there any plans to deliver future kits with the cut-outs for rudder and harness cables already made in the aft-fuselage bulkhead ? Colin K. Ok (Kit on order. deposit paid! :-) _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:38 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning builders Hi All, I'd like to get the names and Email addresses of all Lightning builders that are not using builder assist programs. The builder's manual does not give enough detail about how some parts are installed and or assembled. Dimensional values and reference points are, at times, hard to comprehend as well. I believe this special group of builders could benefit from sharing their unique experiences with others in like situations. This would save some phone calls to Arion. So far in my build I have had the following issues to contend with: 1. Aft fuselage bulkhead (not vertical stab) installed with elevator push-pull tube rectangle cutout but, no holes cut for rudder and harness cables. Its going to be a bear getting into this area to cut these holes with a hole saw and to locate them accurately as well. 2. The mid-elevator bell crank, which is installed in a slot in the seat back, does not give a picture of how this is assembled prior to installation so it is up to you to determine how many washers and where they are located in this assembly. The builder manual says that the long pivot horn should not stick up above the break in the seat back but, the picture they provide clearly shows that it does. Bill in Tucson, Kit #49 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:48 PM PST US From: "Colin J. Kennedy" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning builders Great (or not depending). Thanks Mark. This sort of prompt response builds goodwill and confidence in Arion! Colin K. OK -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Stauffer Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:13 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning builders Colin and all, Unfortunately Bill's kit was an anomaly (or I guess fortunately depending on how you look at it). Of the 12 or 13 I've helped build in Shelbyville all of them had these holes cut out. We've talked to Custom Fiberglass about this problem and they're working hard to make sure it doesn't happen again. We appreciate the feedback and are striving to make the kit and manual better and better. Mark From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Colin J. Kennedy Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:18 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning builders Mark S. or Nic, Are there any plans to deliver future kits with the cut-outs for rudder and harness cables already made in the aft-fuselage bulkhead ? Colin K. Ok (Kit on order. deposit paid! :-) _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:38 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning builders Hi All, I'd like to get the names and Email addresses of all Lightning builders that are not using builder assist programs. The builder's manual does not give enough detail about how some parts are installed and or assembled. Dimensional values and reference points are, at times, hard to comprehend as well. I believe this special group of builders could benefit from sharing their unique experiences with others in like situations. This would save some phone calls to Arion. So far in my build I have had the following issues to contend with: 1. Aft fuselage bulkhead (not vertical stab) installed with elevator push-pull tube rectangle cutout but, no holes cut for rudder and harness cables. Its going to be a bear getting into this area to cut these holes with a hole saw and to locate them accurately as well. 2. The mid-elevator bell crank, which is installed in a slot in the seat back, does not give a picture of how this is assembled prior to installation so it is up to you to determine how many washers and where they are located in this assembly. The builder manual says that the long pivot horn should not stick up above the break in the seat back but, the picture they provide clearly shows that it does. Bill in Tucson, Kit #49 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.mat - NEW content now also available via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=== ==== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:37 PM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: RE: know of a fast plane? Charles, I do have an appreciation for all things that go fast. I do know of may be aircraft that are single or dual seat aircraft capable of that speed and easy on the fuel, unfortunately they are one of a kind aircraft. One of t hese is Cory Bird's "Symmetry" which probably several people have seen at O skosh. Little yellow airplane. If you haven't read the history of the pla ne it is incredible! He spent a couple of years alone making the wings as smooth as posible. They weren't just smooth though, there was virtually no distortion in the wing, even the slightest ripple or ridge. There's a couple of unfortunate problems with what you asked about. First, even though I'm certain the guy saw some real benefits in airspeed from th at kind of attention to detail, most of us aren't that dedicated and consid er the time put into it versus the reward and decide against it. I was wri ting a paper a couple of years back that compared and contrasted light spor t aircraft for training purposes and compared them to 5 popular non-light s port aircraft. I compared several performance variables between all aircra ft. Anyhow, long story short one of those was comparing the engines, speci fically the fuel flow in gph per horsepower. All the light sport were pret ty much identical, which I kind of expected. The thing I didn't expect was the higher horsepower engines and the aircraft not limited to light sport speeds also had almost the exact same ratio. What this tells me is that yo u can only get so much power out of a gallon of gas, no matter how fuel eff icient the engine is. So, that means we have to compete on the level of su perior aerodynamics. What I learned with the Arion project was just how important that frontal a rea of an aircraft is. If you notice the Lightning doesn't have an elevate d seat like in a Cessna 182, you basically sit on the floor. It does have a reclined seat back which gives even 6 foot 4 guys the ability to have hea droom, but doesn't vertically stretch out the cockpit. How much speed do y ou think an additional 6 inches across the top of the canopy would make? W ell it's not just the 6 inches vertical, but the 40 some odd inches horizon tal. That's a lot of square inch area that would add to the airframe. Now if you've ever stuck your hand out the window and held it out like a wing and felt it glide on the breeze, then turn it vertical against the win and felt the force of resistence, then you're starting to understand how just a little surface can create a huge amount of drag. Another point is that of having a high natural laminar flow wing. Now I'm not talking about minimi zing Induced Drag here, that becomes less important as you go faster, I'm t alking about the mixing of the air caused by having the vortices come off o f a wing at a point further forward than a NLF wing. The NLF wing can basi cally be considered sleeker because it's not displacing air as far from the aircraft as a more inefficient wing. (Also the reason why having a balanc ed cross-sectional area on a subsonic aircraft can greatly reduce drag) Ar ion does a pretty good job at both, while staying within their mission obje ctives. Now having said all of that, I have been trying to get sponsorship for a ra cer that should settle in around 250-270mph. My plans were to use a modifi ed version of a Jabiru engine. The aircraft is an Italian built tandem sea t plane, that would need some modifications including fitting the Jabiru en gine. If you're interested I could tell you more about this. The problem with that is that there's absolutely no idea on the safety of s uch an aircraft. In racing there's a certain amount of give in safety in o rder to achieve speed. One example is doing away with stability in order t o achive higher speeds. I've talked to the Jabiru engine guys in Australia and tried to get an idea of how an indipendent company was able to get a w hole lot more power out of the 3300 than standard. They told me they didn' t know of that project, but gave me some suggestions. They did tell me the y had a guy get 140hp out of a very slightly modified engine though! Basic ally the highly modified engine was twin turbo and EFI'd though. It was a defense contractor so they appear to not respond when I try to get specific s. Of course the more you get away from the standard product the more ques tionable the longevity of the engine is, and therefore is hard to say if it is "Safe". One thing that is true without having to fill in the numbers is that it tak es more power to go faster. It also takes more fuel to make more power as previously established. Right now there's less of a track record for GA ai rcraft in the 250-300mph range because it's been relatively recently that t hat's been an option. Sorry for the long email, but basically the answer i s a complex no. I think we could get you there, but you'd have to sacrific e a margin of safety or fuel consumption, or most likely would be the incre ase in $$. I had a guy tell me to buy a warbird, a Yak, instead of trying to compete in the 250-300mph sports class races as it would come cheaper an d place better in the Unlimited class. (sports class, back of the pack is running around 250mph for the slowest heat races, 300-400mph for most of th e real racers) I wanted to go in and prove that something with half the di splacement could still be fast and fuel efficient though. A good showing a t Reno and some media attention would mean that engine and aircraft manufac turers pay attention and try to use that kind of thinking in future designs . Alas nobody is beating down the doors to help fund me. Hope this helps, Brian W.> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:07:11 -0700> From: cdewey6969@yahoo.co m> Subject: Lightning-List: RE: know of a fast plane?> To: lightning-list@m 6969@yahoo.com>> > Brian- i know you have you're pulse on the aviation> ind ustry. Know of any plane that can go over 250mph> that is a 1-seater withou t crazy fuel burn and decent> safety record? charles> --- Brian Whittingham ian> > Whittingham > > > > > > Translation of first pa ragraph talking about a> > member of the flying club saying that the guy ha d a> > lot of time in this plane and other ultralights. He> > says the plan e has one of the best engines on the> > market and is able to fly both fast and extremely> > slow.> > > > > > > > Second paragraph says the aircraft c rashed onto a> > road below, two occupants died, weather was sunny> > and t he winds were calm. The owner/pilot, a> > Policeman in a nearby city, had r ecently built his> > own airplane. Cause of the crash was unknown and is> > being investigated.> > > > > > > > The last paragraph states that two peop le died in a> > crash when they landed on a golf course.> > > > > > > > I t hink I basically got that all right. These two> > seem to be old accidents though, from 2003. Not> > sure if any investigation was completed, but it> > would appear, at least in the first accident that> > the aircraft lost co ntrol, apparently unrelated to> > weather. In all liklihood this would appe ar to be> > pilot error. (due to the fact the weather was great> > and the aircraft lost control. Also human error> > being much more likely than any type of component> > failure) Not really sure what this has to do with> > t he present day or the Lightning for that matter. > > Nor how this helps us with safety unless there is a> > part 2. Brian W.> > > > > > > Subject: Lig htning-List: Re: To Doug K. // Esqual> > safety> > > From: dececk@hotmail.c om> > > Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:19:30 -0700> > > To: lightning-list@matro > hi> > > here you can find some accident about esqual in> > spanish> > > a t this list, add the latest one: yesterday a> > friend of mine had a deadly accident with esqual...> > >> > > sorry for my english> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > 27-09-03> > > Dos pilotos mueren calcinados al estrellarse> > >> > > ultraligero en el casco urbano de Muga. (Esqual)> > >> > >> > >> > > La zon a donde se produjo el accidente con la> > avioneta es un =C3=A1rea de vuelo =C2=ABperfecta=C2=BB; en> > realidad tan buena como cualquiera de las que se> > utilizan para la pr=C3=A1ctica de este deporte, ya que,> > teniendo e n cuenta que no es la altura de los> > aviones comerciales de pasajeros, de l Ej=C3=A9rcito o de> > otros usos oficiales, no hay altas monta=C3=B1as, n i> > turbulencias, ni corrientes de aire o incidencias> > que influyan deci sivamente en la navegaci=C3=B3n. Se> > trata de zonas muy similares en toda Espa=C3=B1a, donde> > los =C3=BAnicos espacios restringidos para esta> > p r=C3=A1ctica son los parques naturales, zonas> > militares, aproximaciones a aeropuertos y tambi=C3=A9n> > est=C3=A1 prohibido sobrevolar ciudades.> > >> > > As=C3=AD, los viajeros volaban en una zona plana y en> > un d=C3=AD a meteorol=C3=B3gicamente adecuado para este> > deporte, tal como explica e l director de> > competiciones del Club Aeromodelismo Zamora, Antonio> > Co co, quien adem=C3=A1s pertenece al de aeroestaci=C3=B3n> > (vuelo en globo) y practica el vuelo en ultraligero.> > >> > > Antonio Coco rechaza pronunc iarse sobre las> > posibles causas del accidente por mera prudencia,> > per o s=C3=AD conoc=C3=ADa a una de las v=C3=ADctimas del> > accidente J.G.G. y sabe que ten=C3=ADa experiencia de> > vuelo: s=C3=B3lo el ultraligero que se supone que> > pilotaba ten=C3=ADa cuarenta horas de vuelo, luego al> > m enos con el 'Squal' ya hab=C3=ADa practicado un tiempo> > considerable en e ste tipo de aparatos, sin contar> > las que hubiera hecho con otros. Desde luego,> > dispon=C3=ADa del t=C3=ADtulo de vuelo deportivo que expide> > Av iaci=C3=B3n Civil, tras las correspondientes pruebas> > te=C3=B3ricas y pr =C3=A1cticas.> > >> > > Del mismo modo, tal como se=C3=B1al=C3=B3 otro afic ionado,> > Carlos Mart=C3=ADn, el aparato era un modelo nuevo,> > =C2=ABcon uno de los mejores motores del mercado=C2=BB. El> > 'Squal', es una avione ta r=C3=A1pida, que entra en> > p=C3=A9rdida (desciende) a menos de cien ki l=C3=B3metros por> > hora. Este tipo de ultraligeros tienen una> > autonom =C3=ADa de vuelo de hasta dos horas, en funci=C3=B3n> > de la atm=C3=B3sfer a, de la direcci=C3=B3n del aire, del> > peso o del n=C3=BAmero de pasajero s.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > 03-10-03> > >> > >> > >> > > Un polic=C3=ADa local y un rumano mueren al> > estrellarse con su U.L.M. (Escu al) en Tortosa.> > >> > >> > >> > > El aparato se precipit=C3=B3 sobre un c amino y sus dos> > ocupantes fallecieron en el acto.> > >> > > Dos personas mueren al estrellarse, hacia las 13> > horas, el ultraligero con el que so brevolaban el> > t=C3=A9rmino municipal de Tortosa (Tarragona).> > > Los fa llecidos han sido identificados como Josep> > Maria S=C3=A1nchez, de 41 a =C3=B1os y nacionalidad> > espa=C3=B1ola, y C.V, de 40 a=C3=B1os y nacional idad rumana.> > El ultraligero, pilotada por S=C3=A1nchez, que era> > polic =C3=ADa local en Tortosa, ha ca=C3=ADdo sobre el camino> > del Igallo de Xi es, cerca de la carretera C-12, por> > causas que todav=C3=ADa se desconoce n.> > > La investigaci=C3=B3n est=C3=A1 a cargo de agentes de la> > Guardia Civil, que ya se han puesto en contacto con> > la Direcci=C3=B3n General d e Aviaci=C3=B3n Civil para> > obtener m=C3=A1s datos sobre el aparato para poder> > instruir diligencias.> > > Al parecer, las dos v=C3=ADctimas, cuya relaci=C3=B3n> > entre ambos se desconoce, viajaban en una antigua> > avio neta transformada en ultraligero, seg=C3=BAn fuentes> > de la Guardia Civil . Josep Maria S=C3=A1nchez, vecino de> > Roquetes, casado y con tres hijas, seg=C3=BAn han> > comentado algunos de sus conocidos, se hab=C3=ADa> > con struido en los =C3=BAltimos tiempos su propia> > avioneta.> > > Las condici ones meteorol=C3=B3gicas hoy en las Tierras> > del Ebro son buenas, luce el sol y no sopla el> > viento. Hasta el lugar de los hechos se han> > trasla dado efectivos de la Guardia Civil, Mossos> > d'Esquadra, Polic=C3=ADa Loca l y Bomberos, as=C3=AD como el> > juez de guardia de Tortosa que ha procedi do, hacia> > las tres de la tarde, al levantamiento de los> > cad=C3=A1vere s para su traslado hasta el tanatorio de> > Tortosa.> > >> > >> > >> > > 20 -10-03> > >> > > Accidente de un Escual en Moi=C3=A1, Barcelona.> > >> > > El piloto, Francisco Velasco y su acompa=C3=B1ante, un> > hombre de naciona lidad finlandesa, fallecieron al> > estrellarse el ultraligero en el que vi ajaban sobre> > un campo de golf.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Read this topic online here:> > >> > >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14 1359#141359> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> _____ ____________________________________________________________> > > >> > brow se> > Subscriptions page,> > > === message truncated ===> > > _ =======> > > _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf=E9. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Oc tWLtagline ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:53 PM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: RE: know of a fast plane? Charles, Another thought. Great fuel burn is subjective. Some people say 15gph at 250mph would be good. Probably looking at 15-20gph for most, I think 30 -40 gph was what I heard for the modified NXT's around 400mph and same with the modified Lanciar Legacy. If that fuel burn is okay with you, then the re's several good candidates. The Questair Venture (egg with wings and fun ky retract landing gear) the Lancair Legacy, The F-1 Rocket with EVO option s will get that at full throttle, Glassair III. All of those you're burnin g 15gph or more though. Here's a link to an article on the Symmetry: http://www.sportsmanpilot.com/ AL/articles/spr2003/Spring2003.htm Similarly the Smith AJ-2 had an IO-360 and would do 200mph at 55% throttle or 250mph at 75% throttle. (think about thatand I think you've got a prett y good rule of thumb, it takes 50% more power to run an airframe at 250mph than it did at 200mph!) Both of those ran around 10gph I think. Both were one off airframes. Both had extensive wing contouring. Both used a sligh tly modified IO-360 for weight and fuel burn. and both used the NACA 64-21 2 airfoil. Problem was landing speeds were high. The symmetry was 120 on base, 100 on final, with 85 knots over the numbers. Sure you can do it and do it safely, but that makes all those numbers like takeoff and landing di stances go up a lot too. Still, very impressive airplanes! Brian W.> Date : Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:07:11 -0700> From: cdewey6969@yahoo.com> Subject: Lig htning-List: RE: know of a fast plane?> To: lightning-list@matronics.com> > > > Brian- i know you have you're pulse on the aviation> industry. Know of any plane that can go over 250mph> that is a 1-seater without crazy fuel bu rn and decent> safety record? charles> --- Brian Whittingham > > > > > > Translation of first paragraph talking about a> > member of the flying club saying that the guy had a> > lot of t ime in this plane and other ultralights. He> > says the plane has one of th e best engines on the> > market and is able to fly both fast and extremely> > slow.> > > > > > > > Second paragraph says the aircraft crashed onto a> > road below, two occupants died, weather was sunny> > and the winds were c alm. The owner/pilot, a> > Policeman in a nearby city, had recently built h is> > own airplane. Cause of the crash was unknown and is> > being investig ated.> > > > > > > > The last paragraph states that two people died in a> > crash when they landed on a golf course.> > > > > > > > I think I basicall y got that all right. These two> > seem to be old accidents though, from 20 03. Not> > sure if any investigation was completed, but it> > would appear, at least in the first accident that> > the aircraft lost control, apparent ly unrelated to> > weather. In all liklihood this would appear to be> > pil ot error. (due to the fact the weather was great> > and the aircraft lost c ontrol. Also human error> > being much more likely than any type of compone nt> > failure) Not really sure what this has to do with> > the present day or the Lightning for that matter. > > Nor how this helps us with safety unl ess there is a> > part 2. Brian W.> > > > > > > Subject: Lightning-List: Re : To Doug K. // Esqual> > safety> > > From: dececk@hotmail.com> > > Date: T ue, 23 Oct 2007 14:19:30 -0700> > > To: lightning-list@matronics.com> > >> you can find some accident about esqual in> > spanish> > > at this list, ad d the latest one: yesterday a> > friend of mine had a deadly accident with esqual...> > >> > > sorry for my english> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > 27-09-03> > > Dos pilotos mueren calcinados al estrellarse> > >> > > ultraligero en el casco urbano de Muga. (Esqual)> > >> > >> > >> > > La zona donde se prod ujo el accidente con la> > avioneta es un =C3=A1rea de vuelo =C2=ABperfecta =C2=BB; en> > realidad tan buena como cualquiera de las que se> > utilizan para la pr=C3=A1ctica de este deporte, ya que,> > teniendo en cuenta que no es la altura de los> > aviones comerciales de pasajeros, del Ej=C3=A9rcito o de> > otros usos oficiales, no hay altas monta=C3=B1as, ni> > turbulenci as, ni corrientes de aire o incidencias> > que influyan decisivamente en la navegaci=C3=B3n. Se> > trata de zonas muy similares en toda Espa=C3=B1a, d onde> > los =C3=BAnicos espacios restringidos para esta> > pr=C3=A1ctica so n los parques naturales, zonas> > militares, aproximaciones a aeropuertos y tambi=C3=A9n> > est=C3=A1 prohibido sobrevolar ciudades.> > >> > > As=C3 =AD, los viajeros volaban en una zona plana y en> > un d=C3=ADa meteorol=C3 =B3gicamente adecuado para este> > deporte, tal como explica el director de > > competiciones del Club Aeromodelismo Zamora, Antonio> > Coco, quien ade m=C3=A1s pertenece al de aeroestaci=C3=B3n> > (vuelo en globo) y practica e l vuelo en ultraligero.> > >> > > Antonio Coco rechaza pronunciarse sobre l as> > posibles causas del accidente por mera prudencia,> > pero s=C3=AD con oc=C3=ADa a una de las v=C3=ADctimas del> > accidente J.G.G. y sabe que ten =C3=ADa experiencia de> > vuelo: s=C3=B3lo el ultraligero que se supone que > > pilotaba ten=C3=ADa cuarenta horas de vuelo, luego al> > menos con el ' Squal' ya hab=C3=ADa practicado un tiempo> > considerable en este tipo de a paratos, sin contar> > las que hubiera hecho con otros. Desde luego,> > dis pon=C3=ADa del t=C3=ADtulo de vuelo deportivo que expide> > Aviaci=C3=B3n C ivil, tras las correspondientes pruebas> > te=C3=B3ricas y pr=C3=A1cticas.> > >> > > Del mismo modo, tal como se=C3=B1al=C3=B3 otro aficionado,> > Car los Mart=C3=ADn, el aparato era un modelo nuevo,> > =C2=ABcon uno de los me jores motores del mercado=C2=BB. El> > 'Squal', es una avioneta r=C3=A1pida , que entra en> > p=C3=A9rdida (desciende) a menos de cien kil=C3=B3metros por> > hora. Este tipo de ultraligeros tienen una> > autonom=C3=ADa de vuel o de hasta dos horas, en funci=C3=B3n> > de la atm=C3=B3sfera, de la direcc i=C3=B3n del aire, del> > peso o del n=C3=BAmero de pasajeros.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > 03-10-03> > >> > >> > >> > > Un polic=C3=ADa lo cal y un rumano mueren al> > estrellarse con su U.L.M. (Escual) en Tortosa. > > >> > >> > >> > > El aparato se precipit=C3=B3 sobre un camino y sus dos > > ocupantes fallecieron en el acto.> > >> > > Dos personas mueren al estr ellarse, hacia las 13> > horas, el ultraligero con el que sobrevolaban el> > t=C3=A9rmino municipal de Tortosa (Tarragona).> > > Los fallecidos han si do identificados como Josep> > Maria S=C3=A1nchez, de 41 a=C3=B1os y nacion alidad> > espa=C3=B1ola, y C.V, de 40 a=C3=B1os y nacionalidad rumana.> > E l ultraligero, pilotada por S=C3=A1nchez, que era> > polic=C3=ADa local en Tortosa, ha ca=C3=ADdo sobre el camino> > del Igallo de Xies, cerca de la c arretera C-12, por> > causas que todav=C3=ADa se desconocen.> > > La invest igaci=C3=B3n est=C3=A1 a cargo de agentes de la> > Guardia Civil, que ya se han puesto en contacto con> > la Direcci=C3=B3n General de Aviaci=C3=B3n C ivil para> > obtener m=C3=A1s datos sobre el aparato para poder> > instruir diligencias.> > > Al parecer, las dos v=C3=ADctimas, cuya relaci=C3=B3n> > entre ambos se desconoce, viajaban en una antigua> > avioneta transformada en ultraligero, seg=C3=BAn fuentes> > de la Guardia Civil. Josep Maria S =C3=A1nchez, vecino de> > Roquetes, casado y con tres hijas, seg=C3=BAn han > > comentado algunos de sus conocidos, se hab=C3=ADa> > construido en los =C3=BAltimos tiempos su propia> > avioneta.> > > Las condiciones meteorol =C3=B3gicas hoy en las Tierras> > del Ebro son buenas, luce el sol y no sop la el> > viento. Hasta el lugar de los hechos se han> > trasladado efectivo s de la Guardia Civil, Mossos> > d'Esquadra, Polic=C3=ADa Local y Bomberos, as=C3=AD como el> > juez de guardia de Tortosa que ha procedido, hacia> > las tres de la tarde, al levantamiento de los> > cad=C3=A1veres para su tra slado hasta el tanatorio de> > Tortosa.> > >> > >> > >> > > 20-10-03> > >> > > Accidente de un Escual en Moi=C3=A1, Barcelona.> > >> > > El piloto, Fr ancisco Velasco y su acompa=C3=B1ante, un> > hombre de nacionalidad finland esa, fallecieron al> > estrellarse el ultraligero en el que viajaban sobre> > un campo de golf.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Read this topic online here:> > >> > >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141359#141359> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> __________________ _______________________________________________> > > >> > browse> > Subscri ptions page,> > > === message truncated ===> > > ______________ ========================> _ ==> > > _________________________________________________________________ ! ilnews ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.