Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:20 AM - small vent templte (Tex Mantell)
2. 10:12 AM - N8WN (Johnny Thompson)
3. 10:32 AM - Re: N8WN (Mile High Aviation)
4. 10:34 AM - Re: N8WN ()
5. 10:38 AM - Re: N8WN (Jim Langley)
6. 11:01 AM - Re: N8WN (Rick Bowen)
7. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: Flying Pencil (Charles Dewey)
8. 02:58 PM - Re: N8WN (sttwig@nwinfo.net)
9. 05:06 PM - Re: N8WN (rickss)
10. 05:49 PM - Re: small vent template (Mark Stauffer)
11. 06:36 PM - Auto Pilot servo mounting (Johnny Thompson)
12. 07:01 PM - Canopy Latches 8WN (Johnny Thompson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | small vent templte |
Nick or Mark, do you have a template for the small air vent for the
fresh air scope? Or what reduction would work if we used the large
template for the oil cooler and make a copy? Tex
Message 2
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Rolled out 8WN to clean the hanger. Just had to take pictures and send
them even with it not being finished. Hope to be in the air mid
November. Johnny Thompson Arizona
Message 3
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Beautiful Aircraft..
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Johnny
Thompson
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 1:12 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: N8WN
Rolled out 8WN to clean the hanger. Just had to take pictures and send them
even with it not being finished. Hope to be in the air mid November.
Johnny Thompson Arizona
Message 4
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Looks terrific Johnny!
Thanks for sharing.
Still would love to see a detail photo of your canopy latching arrangement.
Colin K.
OK
---- Johnny Thompson <14az@mysprocketmail.com> wrote:
> Rolled out 8WN to clean the hanger. Just had to take pictures and send them even
with it not being finished. Hope to be in the air mid November. Johnny
Thompson Arizona
Message 5
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Man, that's HOT!
(hee hee...)
nice job Johnny...
On 10/25/07, Johnny Thompson <14az@mysprocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> Rolled out 8WN to clean the hanger. Just had to take pictures and send
> them even with it not being finished. Hope to be in the air mid
> November. Johnny Thompson Arizona
>
>
Message 6
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Johnny,
Sure looks sharp.....Really like that interior!
Rick
N727RB
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: Flying Pencil |
Brian, Thanks for the responses. That is a lot of
great material you gave. With the hand out the window
example, it seems like if you had a Jabiru 3300 on a
plane that had half the height (vertical dimension) of
the Lightning, was only a one-seater (thus narrower),
and one would virtually be laying down while flying;
it would greatly increase your aerodynamics. It would
truly be a flying pencil. It seems like these
aerodynamic improvements would more than make up for
the lack of engine brawn, and be able to push the
plane to 250. It actually sounds really comfortable
practically lying down while flying- you would have to
fight not to sleep. I know we had this discussion
months back- and the conclusion rached back then was
that you simply have to have more horse power to
propel it once you reach a certain speed, no matter
how aerodynamic the plane is--- is that the case with
this prototype I have in mind? Charles
--- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Charles,
> I do have an appreciation for all things that go
> fast. I do know of maybe aircraft that are single
> or dual seat aircraft capable of that speed and easy
> on the fuel, unfortunately they are one of a kind
> aircraft. One of these is Cory Bird's "Symmetry"
> which probably several people have seen at Oskosh.
> Little yellow airplane. If you haven't read the
> history of the plane it is incredible! He spent a
> couple of years alone making the wings as smooth as
> posible. They weren't just smooth though, there was
> virtually no distortion in the wing, even the
> slightest ripple or ridge.
>
> There's a couple of unfortunate problems with what
> you asked about. First, even though I'm certain the
> guy saw some real benefits in airspeed from that
> kind of attention to detail, most of us aren't that
> dedicated and consider the time put into it versus
> the reward and decide against it. I was writing a
> paper a couple of years back that compared and
> contrasted light sport aircraft for training
> purposes and compared them to 5 popular non-light
> sport aircraft. I compared several performance
> variables between all aircraft. Anyhow, long story
> short one of those was comparing the engines,
> specifically the fuel flow in gph per horsepower.
> All the light sport were pretty much identical,
> which I kind of expected. The thing I didn't expect
> was the higher horsepower engines and the aircraft
> not limited to light sport speeds also had almost
> the exact same ratio. What this tells me is that
> you can only get so much power out of a gallon of
> gas, no matter how fuel efficient the engine is.
> So, that means we have to compete on the level of
> superior aerodynamics.
>
> What I learned with the Arion project was just how
> important that frontal area of an aircraft is. If
> you notice the Lightning doesn't have an elevated
> seat like in a Cessna 182, you basically sit on the
> floor. It does have a reclined seat back which
> gives even 6 foot 4 guys the ability to have
> headroom, but doesn't vertically stretch out the
> cockpit. How much speed do you think an additional
> 6 inches across the top of the canopy would make?
> Well it's not just the 6 inches vertical, but the 40
> some odd inches horizontal. That's a lot of square
> inch area that would add to the airframe. Now if
> you've ever stuck your hand out the window and held
> it out like a wing and felt it glide on the breeze,
> then turn it vertical against the win and felt the
> force of resistence, then you're starting to
> understand how just a little surface can create a
> huge amount of drag. Another point is that of
> having a high natural laminar flow wing. Now I'm
> not talking about minimizing Induced Drag here, that
> becomes less important as you go faster, I'm talking
> about the mixing of the air caused by having the
> vortices come off of a wing at a point further
> forward than a NLF wing. The NLF wing can basically
> be considered sleeker because it's not displacing
> air as far from the aircraft as a more inefficient
> wing. (Also the reason why having a balanced
> cross-sectional area on a subsonic aircraft can
> greatly reduce drag) Arion does a pretty good job
> at both, while staying within their mission
> objectives.
>
> Now having said all of that, I have been trying to
> get sponsorship for a racer that should settle in
> around 250-270mph. My plans were to use a modified
> version of a Jabiru engine. The aircraft is an
> Italian built tandem seat plane, that would need
> some modifications including fitting the Jabiru
> engine. If you're interested I could tell you more
> about this.
>
> The problem with that is that there's absolutely no
> idea on the safety of such an aircraft. In racing
> there's a certain amount of give in safety in order
> to achieve speed. One example is doing away with
> stability in order to achive higher speeds. I've
> talked to the Jabiru engine guys in Australia and
> tried to get an idea of how an indipendent company
> was able to get a whole lot more power out of the
> 3300 than standard. They told me they didn't know
> of that project, but gave me some suggestions. They
> did tell me they had a guy get 140hp out of a very
> slightly modified engine though! Basically the
> highly modified engine was twin turbo and EFI'd
> though. It was a defense contractor so they appear
> to not respond when I try to get specifics. Of
> course the more you get away from the standard
> product the more questionable the longevity of the
> engine is, and therefore is hard to say if it is
> "Safe".
>
> One thing that is true without having to fill in the
> numbers is that it takes more power to go faster.
> It also takes more fuel to make more power as
> previously established. Right now there's less of a
> track record for GA aircraft in the 250-300mph range
> because it's been relatively recently that that's
> been an option. Sorry for the long email, but
> basically the answer is a complex no. I think we
> could get you there, but you'd have to sacrifice a
> margin of safety or fuel consumption, or most likely
> would be the increase in $$. I had a guy tell me to
> buy a warbird, a Yak, instead of trying to compete
> in the 250-300mph sports class races as it would
> come cheaper and place better in the Unlimited
> class. (sports class, back of the pack is running
> around 250mph for the slowest heat races, 300-400mph
> for most of the real racers) I wanted to go in and
> prove that something with half the displacement
> could still be fast and fuel efficient though. A
> good showing at Reno and some media attention would
> mean that engine and aircraft manufacturers pay
> attention and try to use that kind of thinking in
> future designs. Alas nobody is beating down the
> doors to help fund me. Hope this helps, Brian W.>
> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:07:11 -0700> From:
> cdewey6969@yahoo.com> Subject: Lightning-List: RE:
> know of a fast plane?> To:
> lightning-list@matronics.com> > --> Lightning-List
> message posted by: Charles Dewey
> <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Brian- i know you have
> you're pulse on the aviation> industry. Know of any
> plane that can go over 250mph> that is a 1-seater
> without crazy fuel burn and decent> safety record?
> charles> --- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com>
> Brian> > Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com>> > > > >
> > Translation of first paragraph talking about a> >
> member of the flying club saying that the guy had a>
> > lot of time in this plane and other ultralights.
> He> > says the plane has one of the best engines on
> the> > market and is able to fly both fast and
> extremely> > slow.> > > > > > > > Second paragraph
> says the aircraft crashed onto a> > road below, two
> occupants died, weather was sunny> > and the winds
> were calm. The owner/pilot, a> > Policeman in a
> nearby city, had recently built his> > own airplane.
> Cause of the crash was unknown and is> > being
> investigated.> > > > > > > > The last paragraph
> states that two people died in a> > crash when they
> landed on a golf course.> > > > > > > > I think I
> basically got that all right. These two> > seem to
> be old accidents though, from 2003. Not> > sure if
> any investigation was completed, but it> > would
> appear, at least in the first accident that> > the
> aircraft lost control, apparently unrelated to> >
> weather. In all liklihood this would appear to be> >
> pilot error. (due to the fact the weather was great>
> > and the aircraft lost control. Also human error> >
> being much more likely than any type of component> >
> failure) Not really sure what this has to do with> >
> the present day or the Lightning for that matter. >
> > Nor how this helps us with safety unless there is
> a> > part 2. Brian W.> > > > > > > Subject:
> Lightning-List: Re: To Doug K. // Esqual> > safety>
> > > From: dececk@hotmail.com> > > Date: Tue, 23 Oct
> 2007 14:19:30 -0700> > > To:
> lightning-list@matronics.com> > >> > > -->
> > hi> > > here you can find some accident about
> esqual in> > spanish> > > at this list, add the
> latest one: yesterday a> > friend of mine had a
> deadly accident with esqual...> > >> > > sorry for
> my english> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > 27-09-03> > >
> Dos pilotos mueren calcinados al estrellarse> > >> >
> > ultraligero en el casco urbano de Muga. (Esqual)>
> > >> > >> > >> > > La zona donde se produjo el
> accidente con la> > avioneta es un rea de vuelo
> perfecta; en> > realidad tan buena como
> cualquiera de las que se> > utilizan para la
> prctica de este deporte, ya que,> > teniendo en
> cuenta que no es la altura de los> > aviones
> comerciales de pasajeros, del Ejrcito o de> >
> otros usos oficiales, no hay altas montaas, ni> >
> turbulencias, ni corrientes de aire o incidencias> >
> que influyan decisivamente en la navegacin. Se> >
> trata de zonas muy similares en toda Espaa, donde>
> > los nicos espacios restringidos para esta> >
> prctica son los parques naturales, zonas> >
> militares, aproximaciones a aeropuertos y tambin>
> > est prohibido sobrevolar ciudades.> > >> > >
> As, los viajeros volaban en una zona plana y en> >
> un da meteorolgicamente adecuado para este> >
> deporte, tal como explica el director de> >
> competiciones del Club Aeromodelismo Zamora,
> Antonio> > Coco, quien adems pertenece al de
> aeroestacin> > (vuelo en globo) y practica el
> vuelo en ultraligero.> > >> > > Antonio Coco rechaza
> pronunciarse sobre las> > posibles causas del
> accidente por mera prudencia,> > pero s conoca a
> una de las vctimas del> > accidente J.G.G. y sabe
> que tena experiencia de> > vuelo: slo el
> ultraligero que se supone que> > pilotaba tena
> cuarenta
=== message truncated ==
__________________________________________________
Message 8
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WOW! Beautiful, lots of attention to detail. Great job.
Steve, Kit #48
> Rolled out 8WN to clean the hanger. Just had to take pictures and send
> them even with it not being finished. Hope to be in the air mid
> November. Johnny Thompson Arizona
Message 9
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Wow! Very nice...would like to see some more pics of the interior, if you get a
chance.
Rick
--------
Cherokee driver, but feeling the need for speed!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141845#141845
Message 10
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| Subject: | small vent template |
Tex,
Please give me a call in the morning. I can copy and fax you the template
that we use in the shop. Better yet I'll see if I can scan it and put it on
the web site for all to use.
My only caution - sometimes scanners and fax machines will automatically
resize original documents. I'll put some reference measurements on there for
you.
Mark
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tex Mantell
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 7:20 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: small vent templte
Nick or Mark, do you have a template for the small air vent for the fresh
air scope? Or what reduction would work if we used the large template for
the oil cooler and make a copy? Tex
Message 11
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| Subject: | Auto Pilot servo mounting |
These are pictures of where I wound up mounting the roll & pitch servos.
After 4 months of thinking I found this system was very easy and
completely out of the way. For both roll and pitch I made the same flat
plate and mounted them to the wing root indent and to the frame for the
rear baggage floor. I attached the servos to the flat plat studs with
washers and nylocks. Very easy to install or remove. Both bolt to the
respective tubes. On the roll if you install the AN3 bolt that holds the
solid aluminum receiver for the rod end horizontal instead of vertical
the servo rod end will fit there fine. I had already put mine vertical
so I had to shorten the servo push pull tube to make it fit. Johnny
Message 12
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| Subject: | Canopy Latches 8WN |
Sorry for the poor quality and a lot of detail is missing behind the
aluminum bar that holds my side panels. I think someone can come up
with a much better system as I used parts I had on hand. Looking at
cost, around $400.+ I would think hard about this. I think the factory
system will work fine for the majority of owners. I have as much in
avionics as I paid for the plane so I can lock the canopy solid, as long
as they don't break the glass. I also like the way the canopy frame
will not move when closed. I have invested at least two weeks in this
job alone and I still not happy, some bugs are still around.. Everything
had to be done before the glass went on.
I took the interior out after the pictures today so will have to wait
till it is back in.
Johnny
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