Lightning-List Digest Archive

Fri 10/26/07


Total Messages Posted: 9



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:51 PM - Re: Canopy Latches 8WN (Colin J. Kennedy)
     2. 03:57 PM - Tools (Colin J. Kennedy)
     3. 05:09 PM - Re: Tools (Tex Mantell)
     4. 05:16 PM - tools for Colin (Tex Mantell)
     5. 10:07 PM - Lightning flys in Australia (Lightning Aircraft Australia)
     6. 10:20 PM - Re: Lightning flys in Australia (Brian Whittingham)
     7. 10:23 PM - Re: Lightning flys in Australia (Jim Langley)
     8. 10:29 PM - Re: Lightning flys in Australia (Brian Whittingham)
     9. 10:36 PM - Re: Re: Flying Pencil (Brian Whittingham)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:51:09 PM PST US
    From: "Colin J. Kennedy" <cjk129@cox.net>
    Subject: Canopy Latches 8WN
    Thank you for this Johnny. Looking forward to hearing about your first flight! Colin K. OK -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Johnny Thompson Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:58 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Canopy Latches 8WN Sorry for the poor quality and a lot of detail is missing behind the aluminum bar that holds my side panels. I think someone can come up with a much better system as I used parts I had on hand. Looking at cost, around $400.+ I would think hard about this. I think the factory system will work fine for the majority of owners. I have as much in avionics as I paid for the plane so I can lock the canopy solid, as long as they don't break the glass. I also like the way the canopy frame will not move when closed. I have invested at least two weeks in this job alone and I still not happy, some bugs are still around.. Everything had to be done before the glass went on. I took the interior out after the pictures today so will have to wait till it is back in. Johnny


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:57:57 PM PST US
    From: "Colin J. Kennedy" <cjk129@cox.net>
    Subject: Tools
    Would those of you who have built please give some advice about tools, especially for the fiberglass work? I am about to start buying my cutting/sanding tools, in anticipation of the kit arrival by the end of November, and would appreciate any recommendation you would share. The build manual provides a basic list of tools, but are there any models better than others, or with the actual cutting, drilling, sawing bits, is there any material or courseness that works better on fiberglass? Colin K. OK


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:09:21 PM PST US
    From: "Tex Mantell" <wb2ssj@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Tools
    MessageTools 1. "permagit" tools for fiberglass (both sets, fine and coarse) 2. An air grinder with cut off blades 3. A "dremel tool" with the sanding drums 4. A set of 12" sanding blocks that use "Norton" sand paper that comes in rolls and has stickem on the back. 120 & 220 grirt. These are the most important as I use them constantly. Tex ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin J. Kennedy To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 6:57 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Tools Would those of you who have built please give some advice about tools, especially for the fiberglass work? I am about to start buying my cutting/sanding tools, in anticipation of the kit arrival by the end of November, and would appreciate any recommendation you would share. The build manual provides a basic list of tools, but are there any models better than others, or with the actual cutting, drilling, sawing bits, is there any material or courseness that works better on fiberglass? Colin K. OK


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:16:55 PM PST US
    From: "Tex Mantell" <wb2ssj@earthlink.net>
    Subject: tools for Colin
    Also go to a hobby shop and get mixing cups for epoxy. These are small cups which let you mix small amounts of epoxy. They are marked in drams, onces,mil,cc, and table spoons. also go the a boat store which carry WEST Systems, and get there pumps for your epoxy cans. Tex


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:07:11 PM PST US
    From: "Lightning Aircraft Australia" <lightningaustralia@bigpond.com>
    Subject: Lightning flys in Australia
    Hi to all you people on the Lightning List, The first Lighting Aircraft to fly in Australia flew this morning at 8am (27/10/07) It flew beautifully, so push on with the building the end result is well worth it. Regards, Dennis Borchardt. Lightning Aircraft Australia.


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:20:02 PM PST US
    From: Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Lightning flys in Australia
    Dennis, Thanks for the pics and update! This is a real milestone and kind of sy mbolic considering the plane wouldn't/couldn't be what it is without the en gine, which, comes from Australia! That is one beautiful paint job too. C an you provide us with a pilot report of the first Australian born Lightnin g? Good job! Brian W. From: lightningaustralia@bigpond.comTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject : Lightning-List: Lightning flys in AustraliaDate: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:35:5 5 +0930 Hi to all you people on the Lightning List, The first Lighting Aircraft to fly in Australia flew this morning at 8am (2 7/10/07) It flew beautifully, so push on with the building the end result is well worth it. Regards, Dennis Borchardt. Lightning Aircraft Australia. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ' together at last. - Get it now. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL10062 6971033


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:23:35 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    Subject: Lightning flys in Australia
    Nice liking aircraft! SWEET! _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lightning Aircraft Australia Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 1:06 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning flys in Australia Hi to all you people on the Lightning List, The first Lighting Aircraft to fly in Australia flew this morning at 8am (27/10/07) It flew beautifully, so push on with the building the end result is well worth it. Regards, Dennis Borchardt. Lightning Aircraft Australia.


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:29:22 PM PST US
    From: Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Lightning flys in Australia
    also, any pics of the panel for that plane? Any differences in requirement s for say a VFR Day aircraft over the U.S. Regs? Listed here: http://www.4 vfr.com/?goto=view_article&section=articles&article_key=405 From: lightningaustralia@bigpond.comTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject : Lightning-List: Lightning flys in AustraliaDate: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:35:5 5 +0930 Hi to all you people on the Lightning List, The first Lighting Aircraft to fly in Australia flew this morning at 8am (2 7/10/07) It flew beautifully, so push on with the building the end result is well worth it. Regards, Dennis Borchardt. Lightning Aircraft Australia. _________________________________________________________________ ! ilnews


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:36:43 PM PST US
    From: Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com>
    Subject: RE: Flying Pencil
    Charles, Were you the one that asked about a turboprop Lightning? Here's a visi on of what one might look like with a turboprop and tailwheel and tip tanks . http://www.capco-aviation.be/Impulse%20Gallery/IprobJet.jpg It is a rea l aircraft, called the Capco Impulse Xtreme. It is that! 220knot cruise s peed or 270 knot full throttle. 8,000 fpm climb rates and a fuel burn of 1 5gph at 220 knots. The stall speed is 54 knots and takeoff and landing dis tances are about like the Lightning. Look through these aircraft here: htt p://www.capco-aviation.be/Impulse%20Aircraft.htm Scroll down and look at t he Impulse Xcite. It has what I imagine the new flared tips for the future Lightnings might look like. It features an IO-320 and cruises at 190mph o n what I would think would be around 10 gph. Personally I like that small turboprop. Looks like an SF-260 turboprop, su ch as here: http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1003679&size=L Which is in of itself a development of the Falco. I would also say that for an aircraft capable of 300mph the Xtreme is probably the lowest fuel that you' ll find. That Relentless NXT of Kevin's is for sale now on ebay, opening b id $250k. No takers yet. He is burning around 30 gph at full tilt, and ab out 380mph! The Xcite also gives you an idea of what it'd take to get a pl ane of roughly the same size and shape up to those speeds. It has about 30 0hp from a derated Allison turboprop. 100hp = 175 mph, 300 = 250mph. Also notice that 3 times the power doesn't equal three times the speed. Th e first 200mph come at a pretty low power, but the next 50-70mph takes 3 ti mes the power! 3 times the power, and also notice, three times the fuel bur n from 5gph - 15gph. Still, this is not bad, considering it's about like a new Bonanza or Mooney. The airplane that I was considering for modification to a 250mph machine is this one: http://www.millennium-aircraft.com/photogallery.php?id=1&img =images/multimedia/photo/1/DSC_9698T.jpg I was looking for 250-260mph at full throttle though. It's a beautiful little tandom seat aerobatic airpl ane. It is not as wide as the Lightning and about the same height cabin, s o should be reduction of frontal area. The wing is a high speed design. T he plane also features a built in fire suppression system and BRS equipped. It's capable of 190mph on a 100hp Rotax. I think if you doubled the powe r, perhaps a little more than double it'd do 250mph wide open. The modifie d Jabiru engine, reportedly capable of 200hp is from the "Snark" UAV and ca n be read about here: http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ext.php?ref=http ://www.gizmag.com.au/go/4785/1/ Brian W> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:00:58 -0700> From: cdewey6969@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Lightning-List: RE: Flying Pencil> To: lightning-list@matroni ahoo.com>> > Brian, Thanks for the responses. That is a lot of> great mater ial you gave. With the hand out the window> example, it seems like if you h ad a Jabiru 3300 on a> plane that had half the height (vertical dimension) of> the Lightning, was only a one-seater (thus narrower),> and one would vi rtually be laying down while flying;> it would greatly increase your aerody namics. It would> truly be a flying pencil. It seems like these> aerodynami c improvements would more than make up for> the lack of engine brawn, and b e able to push the> plane to 250. It actually sounds really comfortable> pr actically lying down while flying- you would have to> fight not to sleep. I know we had this discussion> months back- and the conclusion rached back t hen was> that you simply have to have more horse power to> propel it once y ou reach a certain speed, no matter> how aerodynamic the plane is--- is tha t the case with> this prototype I have in mind? Charles> --- Brian Whitting ham <dashvii@hotmail.com> wrote:> > > > > Charles,> > I do have an apprecia tion for all things that go> > fast. I do know of maybe aircraft that are s ingle> > or dual seat aircraft capable of that speed and easy> > on the fue l, unfortunately they are one of a kind> > aircraft. One of these is Cory B ird's "Symmetry"> > which probably several people have seen at Oskosh. > > Little yellow airplane. If you haven't read the> > history of the plane it is incredible! He spent a> > couple of years alone making the wings as smoo th as> > posible. They weren't just smooth though, there was> > virtually n o distortion in the wing, even the> > slightest ripple or ridge. > > > > Th ere's a couple of unfortunate problems with what> > you asked about. First, even though I'm certain the> > guy saw some real benefits in airspeed from that> > kind of attention to detail, most of us aren't that> > dedicated a nd consider the time put into it versus> > the reward and decide against it . I was writing a> > paper a couple of years back that compared and> > cont rasted light sport aircraft for training> > purposes and compared them to 5 popular non-light> > sport aircraft. I compared several performance> > var iables between all aircraft. Anyhow, long story> > short one of those was c omparing the engines,> > specifically the fuel flow in gph per horsepower. > > All the light sport were pretty much identical,> > which I kind of expe cted. The thing I didn't expect> > was the higher horsepower engines and th e aircraft> > not limited to light sport speeds also had almost> > the exac t same ratio. What this tells me is that> > you can only get so much power out of a gallon of> > gas, no matter how fuel efficient the engine is. > > So, that means we have to compete on the level of> > superior aerodynamics. > > > > What I learned with the Arion project was just how> > important th at frontal area of an aircraft is. If> > you notice the Lightning doesn't h ave an elevated> > seat like in a Cessna 182, you basically sit on the> > f loor. It does have a reclined seat back which> > gives even 6 foot 4 guys t he ability to have> > headroom, but doesn't vertically stretch out the> > c ockpit. How much speed do you think an additional> > 6 inches across the to p of the canopy would make? > > Well it's not just the 6 inches vertical, b ut the 40> > some odd inches horizontal. That's a lot of square> > inch are a that would add to the airframe. Now if> > you've ever stuck your hand out the window and held> > it out like a wing and felt it glide on the breeze, > > then turn it vertical against the win and felt the> > force of resisten ce, then you're starting to> > understand how just a little surface can cre ate a> > huge amount of drag. Another point is that of> > having a high nat ural laminar flow wing. Now I'm> > not talking about minimizing Induced Dra g here, that> > becomes less important as you go faster, I'm talking> > abo ut the mixing of the air caused by having the> > vortices come off of a win g at a point further> > forward than a NLF wing. The NLF wing can basically > > be considered sleeker because it's not displacing> > air as far from th e aircraft as a more inefficient> > wing. (Also the reason why having a bal anced> > cross-sectional area on a subsonic aircraft can> > greatly reduce drag) Arion does a pretty good job> > at both, while staying within their m ission> > objectives.> > > > Now having said all of that, I have been tryin g to> > get sponsorship for a racer that should settle in> > around 250-270 mph. My plans were to use a modified> > version of a Jabiru engine. The air craft is an> > Italian built tandem seat plane, that would need> > some mod ifications including fitting the Jabiru> > engine. If you're interested I c ould tell you more> > about this.> > > > The problem with that is that ther e's absolutely no> > idea on the safety of such an aircraft. In racing> > t here's a certain amount of give in safety in order> > to achieve speed. One example is doing away with> > stability in order to achive higher speeds. I've> > talked to the Jabiru engine guys in Australia and> > tried to get a n idea of how an indipendent company> > was able to get a whole lot more po wer out of the> > 3300 than standard. They told me they didn't know> > of t hat project, but gave me some suggestions. They> > did tell me they had a g uy get 140hp out of a very> > slightly modified engine though! Basically th e> > highly modified engine was twin turbo and EFI'd> > though. It was a de fense contractor so they appear> > to not respond when I try to get specifi cs. Of> > course the more you get away from the standard> > product the mor e questionable the longevity of the> > engine is, and therefore is hard to say if it is> > "Safe". > > > > One thing that is true without having to fi ll in the> > numbers is that it takes more power to go faster. > > It also takes more fuel to make more power as> > previously established. Right now there's less of a> > track record for GA aircraft in the 250-300mph range> > because it's been relatively recently that that's> > been an option. Sorr y for the long email, but> > basically the answer is a complex no. I think we> > could get you there, but you'd have to sacrifice a> > margin of safet y or fuel consumption, or most likely> > would be the increase in $$. I had a guy tell me to> > buy a warbird, a Yak, instead of trying to compete> > in the 250-300mph sports class races as it would> > come cheaper and place better in the Unlimited> > class. (sports class, back of the pack is runnin g> > around 250mph for the slowest heat races, 300-400mph> > for most of th e real racers) I wanted to go in and> > prove that something with half the displacement> > could still be fast and fuel efficient though. A> > good sh owing at Reno and some media attention would> > mean that engine and aircra ft manufacturers pay> > attention and try to use that kind of thinking in> > future designs. Alas nobody is beating down the> > doors to help fund me. Hope this helps, Brian W.>> > Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:07:11 -0700> From: > > cdewey6969@yahoo.com> Subject: Lightning-List: RE:> > know of a fast pl ane?> To:> > lightning-list@matronics.com> > --> Lightning-List> > message posted by: Charles Dewey> > <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Brian- i know you hav e> > you're pulse on the aviation> industry. Know of any> > plane that can go over 250mph> that is a 1-seater> > without crazy fuel burn and decent> s afety record?> > charles> --- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com>> > wr shvii@hotmail.com>> > > > >> > > Translation of first paragraph talking abo ut a> >> > member of the flying club saying that the guy had a>> > > lot of time in this plane and other ultralights.> > He> > says the plane has one of the best engines on> > the> > market and is able to fly both fast and> > extremely> > slow.> > > > > > > > Second paragraph> > says the aircraft cr ashed onto a> > road below, two> > occupants died, weather was sunny> > and the winds> > were calm. The owner/pilot, a> > Policeman in a> > nearby cit y, had recently built his> > own airplane.> > Cause of the crash was unknow n and is> > being> > investigated.> > > > > > > > The last paragraph> > sta tes that two people died in a> > crash when they> > landed on a golf course .> > > > > > > > I think I> > basically got that all right. These two> > se em to> > be old accidents though, from 2003. Not> > sure if> > any investig ation was completed, but it> > would> > appear, at least in the first accid ent that> > the> > aircraft lost control, apparently unrelated to> >> > wea ther. In all liklihood this would appear to be> >> > pilot error. (due to t he fact the weather was great>> > > and the aircraft lost control. Also hum an error> >> > being much more likely than any type of component> >> > fail ure) Not really sure what this has to do with> >> > the present day or the Lightning for that matter. >> > > Nor how this helps us with safety unless there is> > a> > part 2. Brian W.> > > > > > > Subject:> > Lightning-List: Re: To Doug K. // Esqual> > safety>> > > > From: dececk@hotmail.com> > > Da te: Tue, 23 Oct> > 2007 14:19:30 -0700> > > To:> > lightning-list@matronics > > hi> > > here you can find some accident about> > esqual in> > spanish> > > at this list, add the> > latest one: yesterday a> > friend of mine had a> > deadly accident with esqual...> > >> > > sorry for> > my english> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > 27-09-03> > >> > Dos pilotos mueren calcinados al estre llarse> > >> >> > > ultraligero en el casco urbano de Muga. (Esqual)>> > > >> > >> > >> > > La zona donde se produjo el> > accidente con la> > avionet a es un =C3=A1rea de vuelo> > =C2=ABperfecta=C2=BB; en> > realidad tan buen a como> > cualquiera de las que se> > utilizan para la> > pr=C3=A1ctica de este deporte, ya que,> > teniendo en> > cuenta que no es la altura de los> > aviones> > comerciales de pasajeros, del Ej=C3=A9rcito o de> >> > otros u sos oficiales, no hay altas monta=C3=B1as, ni> >> > turbulencias, ni corrie ntes de aire o incidencias> >> > que influyan decisivamente en la navegaci =C3=B3n. Se> >> > trata de zonas muy similares en toda Espa=C3=B1a, donde>> > > los =C3=BAnicos espacios restringidos para esta> >> > pr=C3=A1ctica so n los parques naturales, zonas> >> > militares, aproximaciones a aeropuerto s y tambi=C3=A9n>> > > est=C3=A1 prohibido sobrevolar ciudades.> > >> > >> > As=C3=AD, los viajeros volaban en una zona plana y en> >> > un d=C3=ADa m eteorol=C3=B3gicamente adecuado para este> >> > deporte, tal como explica e l director de> >> > competiciones del Club Aeromodelismo Zamora,> > Antonio > > Coco, quien adem=C3=A1s pertenece al de> > aeroestaci=C3=B3n> > (vuelo en globo) y practica el> > vuelo en ultraligero.> > >> > > Antonio Coco rec haza> > pronunciarse sobre las> > posibles causas del> > accidente por mera prudencia,> > pero s=C3=AD conoc=C3=ADa a> > una de las v=C3=ADctimas del> > accidente J.G.G. y sabe> > que ten=C3=ADa experiencia de> > vuelo: s=C3 =B3lo el> > ultraligero que se supone que> > pilotaba ten=C3=ADa> > cuarent a > === message truncated ===> > > ____________________________ ======================> > > _________________________________________________________________ ! ilnews




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