Lightning-List Digest Archive

Sat 11/03/07


Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:53 PM - Esqual v Lightning Question (rickss)
     2. 01:21 PM - Re: Esqual v Lightning Question (Kayberg@aol.com)
     3. 01:26 PM - Re: Esqual v Lightning Question (Jim Langley)
     4. 02:02 PM - Re: Esqual v Lightning Question (N1BZRich@aol.com)
     5. 02:40 PM - Colin-tools (Tex Mantell)
     6. 06:32 PM - Re: Esqual v Lightning Question (Clive J)
     7. 06:32 PM - Re: Esqual v Lightning Question (Clive J)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:53:37 PM PST US
    Subject: Esqual v Lightning Question
    From: "rickss" <rickss@verizon.net>
    I read the 2003 EAA article, that someone posted the link too, about he Esqual. If I remember correctly, it says that you can get it in either fiber glass or carbon fiber and that the carbon fiber model was about 60 lbs. lighter. Does anyone know why Arion decided not to go with the carbon fiber with their design? Thanks, Rick -------- Cherokee driver, but feeling the need for speed! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143610#143610


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:21:03 PM PST US
    From: Kayberg@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Esqual v Lightning Question
    In a message dated 11/3/2007 3:54:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rickss@verizon.net writes: I read the 2003 EAA article, that someone posted the link too, about he Esqual. If I remember correctly, it says that you can get it in either fiber glass or carbon fiber and that the carbon fiber model was about 60 lbs. lighter. Does anyone know why Arion decided not to go with the carbon fiber with their design? Thanks, Rick While I dont recall the numbers, the carbon Fiber Esqual was substantually more money for a weight savings of 60 lbs. They only sold a few of them. We all agreed it was not worth the money. The Lightning uses a small amount of carbon glass around the spar. The Lightning molders are using some state of the art techniques that result in a lighter composit using cheaper materials that are easier to work with. The carbon mat is rather unreasonably priced. I would guess that to do all carbon would nearly double the cost of the kit and save only 30-50 lbs. Just my opinion. Doug Koenigsberg


    Message 3


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    Time: 01:26:48 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Esqual v Lightning Question
    I can't speak for Arion, but my guess is that the weight savings vs. the cost were prohibitive of going with CF over just glass. They do use CF in stratagic parts of their design tho... On 11/3/07, rickss <rickss@verizon.net> wrote: > > > I read the 2003 EAA article, that someone posted the link too, about he > Esqual. If I remember correctly, it says that you can get it in either fiber > glass or carbon fiber and that the carbon fiber model was about 60 lbs. > lighter. Does anyone know why Arion decided not to go with the carbon fiber > with their design? > > Thanks, > Rick > > -------- > Cherokee driver, but feeling the need for speed! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143610#143610 > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 02:02:07 PM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Esqual v Lightning Question
    Doug is right on about the cost vs. weight savings. For a 60 pound weight savings the carbon fiber Esqual was 5 to 6 thousand dollars more depending on the EURO exchange rate at the time. Now it would probably be even more since the Euro is stronger and carbon fiber cost continue to go up as well. Plus carbon fiber material is kind of hard to get. It just is not worth that kind of cost for the type of sport aviation mission we have. Blue skies, Buz


    Message 5


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    Time: 02:40:16 PM PST US
    From: "Tex Mantell" <wb2ssj@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Colin-tools
    Colin, one tool I forgot to mention. A real good vaccum cleaner. When you start working with the fiberglass you will understand. TEX


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:32:15 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Esqual v Lightning Question
    From: "Clive J" <clive.james@bp.com>
    I just weighed my glass Esqual a few weeks ago. 325 kgs, 716 lbs. The only carbon version I know of weighed in at more than that. Had a few toys in but I have a set of old analogue instruments so I figure it was actually a heavier airframe. The cost difference was 4k 4 years ago. I was talking with the Dyn Aero Ban Bi distributor in the UK and he said that Boeing and the airlines are buying up all the carbon that is being produced which is driving the price up. The original weight of the Esqual in my build manual is stated at 275 kgs, this was when they met the 450 kgs MAUW required to be ULM aircraft. I do wonder where the extra 50 kgs comes from. The basic airframe doesn't have a big parts count so where did all the extra get added in? Maybe Pete figured it out when he developed the Lightning in a similar concept? I have to say when lifting them the wings feel a lot heavier than I would have thought they were going to be....... . Regards, Clive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143646#143646 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wieghing_18th_nov_07__585.jpg


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:32:23 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Esqual v Lightning Question
    From: "Clive J" <clive.james@bp.com>
    Just noticed I renamed the picture wrongly should be October 18 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143648#143648




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