---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/10/08: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:30 AM - Re: Lightning Videos (Jim Langley) 2. 06:44 AM - Re: Lightning Videos (Kayberg@aol.com) 3. 07:23 AM - Re: Lightning Videos (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 4. 07:45 AM - Re: Lightning Videos (info@jabiru.cl) 5. 08:03 AM - Re: Lightning Videos (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 6. 08:11 AM - Re: Lightning Videos (Jim and Mary Young) 7. 08:12 AM - Re: Lightning Videos (Jim Langley) 8. 08:31 AM - Re: Lightning Videos (Jim Langley) 9. 08:50 AM - Re: Lightning Videos (N1BZRich@aol.com) 10. 11:59 AM - Re: Lightning Videos (Kayberg@aol.com) 11. 01:22 PM - Re: Lightning Videos (Charles Dewey) 12. 02:07 PM - Re: Lightning Videos (N1BZRich@aol.com) 13. 10:52 PM - Re: Lightning Videos (steve) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:45 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos It defiantly is something that is needed, but in retrospect, not something that Arion should be focusing on right now as they are more inclined to spend their valuable time on the refining of the current design. I think like earlier Sonex Aircraft, it will, and should be up to us to help out in this area. The belly cam is a great idea for some of the action shots as is a wingtip cam. When I did video with my giant scale RC, it was always with an external mounted video camera, never on the belly though, great idea. _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:56 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos I was going to shoot an action shot video of the Lightning while I lived in TN. I had the ability to get 4 Lightnings in the air at the same time and another airplane filming. I even had it choreographed with the music so that I could get the kinds and lengths of shots that I needed. Unfortunately I never got a chance to do it due to weather and mainenance delays. Then I moved. I did have access to a gyro stabilization rig for the camera and Nick and I talked about getting a lipstick cam and muonting it to the vertical fin. If somebody was inclined to the Lightning would make a good camera platform and with a little use of RC servos and a clear dome being fashioned to the belly of the plane and a camera that is gyro stabilized, you could really have some cool shots. I would love to go back and shoot some video if the situation allowed. Brian W. > From: pequeajim@gmail.com > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re: Lightning Videos > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 22:35:13 -0500 > > > Hi Charles: > > I will be doing some new videos before spring. I was very busy in the fall > and over this past Christmas holiday season, (at work). It even slowed me > down on my Lightning. > > I hope to get some high quality in-flight video in a month or two. Ryan is > a really good pilot and is just the guy to take video of while flying his > Lightning. I also would love to get some in-flight video of 2-3 Lightnings > in formation. > > The good stuff would be of a Lightning doing a roll, but Arion does not > support that kind of activity in a Lightning, (understandably) > > Look for things with me to pick back up in a few weeks, web site and build > log. I'm going down to Green Landings this weekend for 2-3 days. I'm > getting VERY close. > > Jim! > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles > Dewey > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:10 PM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Lightning Videos > > > Jim Langley: Any chance you could get some new > Lightning videos up? I would take some and post them > if I knew how to do it. It would be great to get some > more action type videos up to get people excited. The > one you took of Ryan flying over the buildings is > awesome. It might be a good idea for the Shelbyville > crew to hire a pro to take some quality videos and > make a short out of them and post it on the main > website. It will help to bring the Lightning to life > for all those out there thinking about buying a > Lightning but have never seen it fly. Hate to lose > them to another manufacturer b/c they have a slick > video on their site. Charles Dewey > --- Jim Langley wrote: > > > Very nice, both of them! > > > > On 1/9/08, Pete wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Van Heeswyk's Lightning flew this past > > weekend at Greg Hobbs' strip > > > in Marana AZ. This is the 21st Lightning to fly. > > > > > > > > > > > > See photo attached > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > *From:* owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto: > > > owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] *On > > Behalf Of *Pete > > > *Sent:* Monday, January 07, 2008 5:16 PM > > > *To:* lightning-list@matronics.com > > > *Subject:* Lightning-List: Radio & Transponder > > Sale > > > > > > > > > > > > Jabiru USA has several new Becker 4201 radios in > > stock for immediate sale > > > at $950.00. Compare to Gulf Coast Avionics at > > $1270.00. Becker ATC > > > 4401-175 Transponders for sale at $1500.00. > > Compare at $1899.00. Several > > > available. First with the cash gets them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Call 931-680-2800 or email frontdesk@usjabiru.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete Krotje > > > > > > Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC > > > > > > > > > > > > * * > > > > > > * * > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > > > > > * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > > > > _____ Watch "Cause Effect," a show about real people making a real difference. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:10 AM PST US From: Kayberg@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos In a message dated 1/10/2008 7:32:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, pequeajim@gmail.com writes: It defiantly is something that is needed, but in retrospect, not something that Arion should be focusing on right now as they are more inclined to spend their valuable time on the refining of the current design. I think like earlier Sonex Aircraft, it will, and should be up to us to help out in this area. The belly cam is a great idea for some of the action shots as is a wingtip cam. The problem is doing legal manuvers. To do ground or air shots of rolls, loops, spins, etc, you would have to be too close. You could do a camera mount, but that would just document illegal activity. The Feds are particularly aroused by aerobatics without parachutes, too close to the ground, too close to other aircraft and with unqualified pilots. To post illegal activies on ones website as a manufacturer of parts invites a major lawsuit if some moron trys a manuver and dies. I'm sure most stuff has been done with the exception of "snap" manuvers, but done by people with signifcant pilot skills, like Buz and Nick. For some reason, people try to expand the envelope of a design to make it do everything instead of just what it was designed to do. If you want to do aerobatics, get a Pitts. If you want to go long-range fast, get a Lancair. If you want an efficient medium range, reasonably fast, good handling, economical plane that can be built quick, get a Lightning!! Doug **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:48 AM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos In a message dated 1/10/2008 7:32:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pequeajim@gmail.com writes: I think like earlier Sonex Aircraft, it will, and should be up to us to help out in this area. The belly cam is a great idea for some of the action shots as is a wingtip cam. Charles, Jim, Brian, and all, I think you guys are on to something that would be a great "information" tool for the Lightning aircraft, but only if done the right way. You want to show the great looking Lightning in flight, but avoid maneuvers that could possible be thought of as aerobatic, for obvious reasons. The Sonex video you are talking about is probably the one by Tony Spicer of NC who is an ex F-4 back seat navigator (I did not know him while I was flying the F-4, but have since met him). His video goes over his experiences building the Sonex then has some good in-flight video of him playing fighter pilot and rolling in on various imaginary targets. Great Fun. A video showing the beautiful lines of the Lightning in flight, some close formation shots, and some low passes down the runway at speed would be a good starting point. For the video with the camera mounted on the aircraft, I am reminded of the MGM/Paramount movie "Cloud Dancer" starting David Carradine and Jennifer O'Neil that featured numerous Pitts aircraft (including mine). Yes, I am in the movie also, but you have to really look quick to see me. They cut out most of the stuff that had me talking to Carradine at a bar and telling him how to do various maneuvers. The only flying he really did was in a two seat Pitts with Tom Poberezney doing the flying. Anyway, they had the Pitts factory build a single seat Pitts and a two Place Pitts with camera mounts on the tail, the wing tip, and on the top wing centerline. The mount on the tail, looking forward, gave great flying shots with the perspective that the pilot would see. It made you "bank" in your seat as you watched the movie. The wing tip camera was aimed at the cockpit for a side view perspective. The wing centerline camera was actually aimed aft to film the pilot's face as he pulled "Gs", but also gave some great shots while the Pitts was going vertical seeing the ground rapidly growing smaller. I highly recommend this movie if you can find a copy (I have two, one signed by Carradine). The flying sequences are fantastic, but the story line is about the worst soap opera you can think of. It has become a cult film in the aerobatic world, so that is why it is hard to find a copy. For what you guys are thinking about doing I think a camera mounted on the aircraft centerline (probably inside the cockpit) would be the best way to go for the shots to give the pilot's perspective. Cameras mounted off center (like on the wing tip looking forward) could give a strange perspective of yaw depending on how far forward you have them aimed. Formation shots could be made with a camera man holding the camera and in one of the airplanes for some shots and on the ground for others. As to belly mounted cameras, the only experience I have with that would be in the F-4 where we some times carried the KB-18 camera which actually looked aft and filmed weapons release and effects. Such things as bombs and napalm hitting the targets. Great stuff, but probably not what we need, although one slightly off center on the belly looking forward might be interesting for takeoffs and landings. We also had a gun camera mounted that would film the pilot's eye perspective and it was great for air to air combat shots. That is kind of video shot would best show what the pilot sees when flying a Lightning, so a camera mounted near centerline in the cockpit would probably give good video and be easiest to mount and operate. Keep the idea alive. And if someone has the expertise and the new small video camera with enough resolution to give excellent results, then I think if would be well worth the effort. I think Tony Spicer, mentioned above, sold lots of copys of his video to perspective Sonex customers. Blue Skies, Buz **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:30 AM PST US From: info@jabiru.cl Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos Hi to all, there some good in flight videos from a Berkut pilot, that can give you some idea for the Lightning video that you are thinking. http://www.berkut13.com/berkut56.htm Christian Tannen Chile Quoting N1BZRich@aol.com: > > In a message dated 1/10/2008 7:32:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > pequeajim@gmail.com writes: > > I think like earlier Sonex Aircraft, it will, and should be up to us to help > out in this area. The belly cam is a great idea for some of the action > shots as is a wingtip cam. > > > Charles, Jim, Brian, and all, > > I think you guys are on to something that would be a great "information" > tool for the Lightning aircraft, but only if done the right way. You want > to show the great looking Lightning in flight, but avoid maneuvers > that could > possible be thought of as aerobatic, for obvious reasons. > The Sonex video you are talking about is probably the one by Tony Spicer > of NC who is an ex F-4 back seat navigator (I did not know him while I was > flying the F-4, but have since met him). His video goes over his > experiences > building the Sonex then has some good in-flight video of him playing fighter > pilot and rolling in on various imaginary targets. Great Fun. A video > showing the beautiful lines of the Lightning in flight, some close formation > shots, and some low passes down the runway at speed would be a good > starting point. > For the video with the camera mounted on the aircraft, I am reminded of > the MGM/Paramount movie "Cloud Dancer" starting David Carradine and Jennifer > O'Neil that featured numerous Pitts aircraft (including mine). Yes, I am in > the movie also, but you have to really look quick to see me. They cut out > most of the stuff that had me talking to Carradine at a bar and > telling him how > to do various maneuvers. The only flying he really did was in a two seat > Pitts with Tom Poberezney doing the flying. Anyway, they had the Pitts > factory build a single seat Pitts and a two Place Pitts with camera > mounts on the > tail, the wing tip, and on the top wing centerline. The mount on the tail, > looking forward, gave great flying shots with the perspective that the pilot > would see. It made you "bank" in your seat as you watched the > movie. The wing > tip camera was aimed at the cockpit for a side view perspective. The wing > centerline camera was actually aimed aft to film the pilot's face > as he pulled > "Gs", but also gave some great shots while the Pitts was going vertical > seeing the ground rapidly growing smaller. I highly recommend this > movie if you > can find a copy (I have two, one signed by Carradine). The flying sequences > are fantastic, but the story line is about the worst soap opera you > can think > of. It has become a cult film in the aerobatic world, so that is why it is > hard to find a copy. > For what you guys are thinking about doing I think a camera mounted on > the aircraft centerline (probably inside the cockpit) would be the > best way to > go for the shots to give the pilot's perspective. Cameras mounted off > center (like on the wing tip looking forward) could give a strange > perspective of > yaw depending on how far forward you have them aimed. Formation shots could > be made with a camera man holding the camera and in one of the airplanes for > some shots and on the ground for others. As to belly mounted cameras, the > only experience I have with that would be in the F-4 where we some times > carried the KB-18 camera which actually looked aft and filmed > weapons release and > effects. Such things as bombs and napalm hitting the targets. Great stuff, > but probably not what we need, although one slightly off center on the belly > looking forward might be interesting for takeoffs and landings. We > also had a > gun camera mounted that would film the pilot's eye perspective and it was > great for air to air combat shots. That is kind of video shot > would best show > what the pilot sees when flying a Lightning, so a camera mounted near > centerline in the cockpit would probably give good video and be > easiest to mount > and operate. > Keep the idea alive. And if someone has the expertise and the new small > video camera with enough resolution to give excellent results, then I think > if would be well worth the effort. I think Tony Spicer, mentioned above, > sold lots of copys of his video to perspective Sonex customers. > Blue Skies, > Buz > > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:55 AM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos In a message dated 1/10/2008 10:46:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, info@jabiru.cl writes: http://www.berkut13.com/berkut56.htm Thanks, Christian. Great videos. Blue Skies, Buz Rich **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:12 AM PST US From: "Jim and Mary Young" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos Must have been a horrible movie. It's not even in Netflix! Would have been interesting to see at least one of the faces behind the words in this forum. Jim _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:23 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos In a message dated 1/10/2008 7:32:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pequeajim@gmail.com writes: I think like earlier Sonex Aircraft, it will, and should be up to us to help out in this area. The belly cam is a great idea for some of the action shots as is a wingtip cam. Charles, Jim, Brian, and all, I think you guys are on to something that would be a great "information" tool for the Lightning aircraft, but only if done the right way. You want to show the great looking Lightning in flight, but avoid maneuvers that could possible be thought of as aerobatic, for obvious reasons. The Sonex video you are talking about is probably the one by Tony Spicer of NC who is an ex F-4 back seat navigator (I did not know him while I was flying the F-4, but have since met him). His video goes over his experiences building the Sonex then has some good in-flight video of him playing fighter pilot and rolling in on various imaginary targets. Great Fun. A video showing the beautiful lines of the Lightning in flight, some close formation shots, and some low passes down the runway at speed would be a good starting point. For the video with the camera mounted on the aircraft, I am reminded of the MGM/Paramount movie "Cloud Dancer" starting David Carradine and Jennifer O'Neil that featured numerous Pitts aircraft (including mine). Yes, I am in the movie also, but you have to really look quick to see me. They cut out most of the stuff that had me talking to Carradine at a bar and telling him how to do various maneuvers. The only flying he really did was in a two seat Pitts with Tom Poberezney doing the flying. Anyway, they had the Pitts factory build a single seat Pitts and a two Place Pitts with camera mounts on the tail, the wing tip, and on the top wing centerline. The mount on the tail, looking forward, gave great flying shots with the perspective that the pilot would see. It made you "bank" in your seat as you watched the movie. The wing tip camera was aimed at the cockpit for a side view perspective. The wing centerline camera was actually aimed aft to film the pilot's face as he pulled "Gs", but also gave some great shots while the Pitts was going vertical seeing the ground rapidly growing smaller. I highly recommend this movie if you can find a copy (I have two, one signed by Carradine). The flying sequences are fantastic, but the story line is about the worst soap opera you can think of. It has become a cult film in the aerobatic world, so that is why it is hard to find a copy. For what you guys are thinking about doing I think a camera mounted on the aircraft centerline (probably inside the cockpit) would be the best way to go for the shots to give the pilot's perspective. Cameras mounted off center (like on the wing tip looking forward) could give a strange perspective of yaw depending on how far forward you have them aimed. Formation shots could be made with a camera man holding the camera and in one of the airplanes for some shots and on the ground for others. As to belly mounted cameras, the only experience I have with that would be in the F-4 where we some times carried the KB-18 camera which actually looked aft and filmed weapons release and effects. Such things as bombs and napalm hitting the targets. Great stuff, but probably not what we need, although one slightly off center on the belly looking forward might be interesting for takeoffs and landings. We also had a gun camera mounted that would film the pilot's eye perspective and it was great for air to air combat shots. That is kind of video shot would best show what the pilot sees when flying a Lightning, so a camera mounted near centerline in the cockpit would probably give good video and be easiest to mount and operate. Keep the idea alive. And if someone has the expertise and the new small video camera with enough resolution to give excellent results, then I think if would be well worth the effort. I think Tony Spicer, mentioned above, sold lots of copys of his video to perspective Sonex customers. Blue Skies, Buz _____ Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:53 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos thanks Buz, great thoughts, (as usual) On 1/10/08, N1BZRich@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 1/10/2008 7:32:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > pequeajim@gmail.com writes: > > I think like earlier Sonex Aircraft, it will, and should be up to us to > help out in this area. The belly cam is a great idea for some of the action > shots as is a wingtip cam. > > Charles, Jim, Brian, and all, > > I think you guys are on to something that would be a great > "information" tool for the Lightning aircraft, but only if done the right > way. You want to show the great looking Lightning in flight, but avoid > maneuvers that could possible be thought of as aerobatic, for obvious > reasons. > The Sonex video you are talking about is probably the one by Tony > Spicer of NC who is an ex F-4 back seat navigator (I did not know him while > I was flying the F-4, but have since met him). His video goes over his > experiences building the Sonex then has some good in-flight video of him > playing fighter pilot and rolling in on various imaginary targets. Great > Fun. A video showing the beautiful lines of the Lightning in flight, some > close formation shots, and some low passes down the runway at speed would be > a good starting point. > For the video with the camera mounted on the aircraft, I am reminded > of the MGM/Paramount movie "Cloud Dancer" starting David Carradine and > Jennifer O'Neil that featured numerous Pitts aircraft (including mine). > Yes, I am in the movie also, but you have to really look quick to see me. > They cut out most of the stuff that had me talking to Carradine at a bar and > telling him how to do various maneuvers. The only flying he really did was > in a two seat Pitts with Tom Poberezney doing the flying. Anyway, they had > the Pitts factory build a single seat Pitts and a two Place Pitts with > camera mounts on the tail, the wing tip, and on the top wing centerline. > The mount on the tail, looking forward, gave great flying shots with the > perspective that the pilot would see. It made you "bank" in your seat as > you watched the movie. The wing tip camera was aimed at the cockpit for a > side view perspective. The wing centerline camera was actually aimed aft to > film the pilot's face as he pulled "Gs", but also gave some great shots > while the Pitts was going vertical seeing the ground rapidly growing > smaller. I highly recommend this movie if you can find a copy (I have two, > one signed by Carradine). The flying sequences are fantastic, but the story > line is about the worst soap opera you can think of. It has become a cult > film in the aerobatic world, so that is why it is hard to find a copy. > For what you guys are thinking about doing I think a camera mounted on > the aircraft centerline (probably inside the cockpit) would be the best way > to go for the shots to give the pilot's perspective. Cameras mounted off > center (like on the wing tip looking forward) could give a strange > perspective of yaw depending on how far forward you have them aimed. > Formation shots could be made with a camera man holding the camera and in > one of the airplanes for some shots and on the ground for others. As to > belly mounted cameras, the only experience I have with that would be in the > F-4 where we some times carried the KB-18 camera which actually looked aft > and filmed weapons release and effects. Such things as bombs and napalm > hitting the targets. Great stuff, but probably not what we need, although > one slightly off center on the belly looking forward might be interesting > for takeoffs and landings. We also had a gun camera mounted that would film > the pilot's eye perspective and it was great for air to air combat shots. > That is kind of video shot would best show what the pilot sees when flying > a Lightning, so a camera mounted near centerline in the cockpit would > probably give good video and be easiest to mount and operate. > Keep the idea alive. And if someone has the expertise and the new > small video camera with enough resolution to give excellent results, then I > think if would be well worth the effort. I think Tony Spicer, mentioned > above, sold lots of copys of his video to perspective Sonex customers. > Blue Skies, > Buz > > > ------------------------------ > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shapein the new year. > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:57 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos Doug, I think you have to keep things in perspective. I don't think anyone is saying that we need to produce a video of a Lightning doing aerobatics, (at least I'm not). I think the point that Charles is making is that Arion could use a great video that shows the Lightning in flight like other manufacturers, and as Buz mentioned, from different perspectives. I'm not interested in aerobatics in my Lightning, and certainly not interested in a Pitts or a Lancair. If I was, I would have bought one. I think everyone is interested in promoting a great aircraft for what it is. There are some very nice things that can be done in a video production without compromising what Arion has intended for this aircraft. Nobody is trying to "expand the envelope of the design" beyond what it is intended for. Let's not squash creative juices before they get flowing=85 I for one think it is a great idea and would be very beneficial to Arion AN D their retail centers like Green Landings. Happy flying Jim! On 1/10/08, *Kayberg@aol.com* wrote: In a message dated 1/10/2008 7:32:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, pequeajim@gmail.com writes: It defiantly is something that is needed, but in retrospect, not something that Arion should be focusing on right now as they are more inclined to spend their valuable time on the refining of the current design. I think like earlier Sonex Aircraft, it will, and should be up to us to help out in this area. The belly cam is a great idea for some of the action shots as i s a wingtip cam. The problem is doing legal manuvers. To do ground or air shots of rolls, loops, spins, etc, you would have to be too close. You could do a camera mount, but that would just document illegal activity. The Feds are particularly aroused by aerobatics without parachutes, too close to the ground, too close to other aircraft and with unqualified pilots. To post illegal activies on ones website as a manufacturer of parts invites a major lawsuit if some moron trys a manuver and dies. I'm sure most stuff has been done with the exception of "snap" manuvers, but done by people wit h signifcant pilot skills, like Buz and Nick. For some reason, people try to expand the envelope of a design to make it d o *everything* instead of just what it was designed to do. If you want to do aerobatics, get a Pitts. If you want to go long-range fast, get a Lancair. If you want an efficient medium range, reasonably fast, good handling, economical plane that can be built quick, get a Lightning!! Doug ------------------------------ Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shapein the new year. * * * * ===========* ===========* ===========* ===========* * * ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:46 AM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos In a message dated 1/10/2008 11:13:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jimandmary@fastmail.us writes: Must have been a horrible movie. It's not even in Netflix! Hi Jim, Yes, the story line was pretty bad (comical actually with all the soap opera twist and turns), but as I mentioned the flying sequences were fantastic. One reason it is hard to find is that it came out way back in 1979 or 1980, and if I remember correctly it opened in Oshkosh based on the EAA connection. I was in Germany flying the F-4 for three years when it was released, but the major part of the filming was done at airports around the Phoenix area and many of my aerobatic buddies and their wives were seen in the movie. The weather there was great and at the time we had the worlds largest IAC chapter so lots of aerobatic aircraft for background shots. Tom Poberezny, Gene Soucy, and Charlie Hillard (the original Red Devils Aerobatic team in Pitts - later in Eagles and called the Eagles) did the major part of the flying. When MGM/Paramount completed filming in Phoenix they had a big party for cast and crew and invited all of the local aerobatic pilots to attend. Filming at this party is how most of us got in the movie, but my Pitts can be seen in several background shots. I just did a google search for Cloud Dancer and came up with one place that advertises the movie on DVD for $17.99, which is a good price if they actually have it in stock. Try: _http://www.sweetmoviememories.com/_Cloud_Dancer.html?gclid=CPqb2YmP7JACFQdvHgodBn-QPA_ (http://www.sweetmoviememories.com/_Cloud_Dancer.html?gclid=CPqb2YmP7JACFQdvHgodBn-QPA) Blue Skies, Buz **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:04 AM PST US From: Kayberg@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos Be nice to me, I HAVE a copy (VHS) of Cloud Dancer!!! Good luck on trying to recognize Buz in it. I havent found him on it yet!! I do agree with your point about having a good video. But that is not easily done with airplanes. It is not so hard to mount a camera, but to m ake it worth viewing is a challenge. That is possibly the reason for the cheezy story line in Cloud Dancer. If you watched any of the Red Bull air races, you can see how it SHOULD look, but they had some great equipment. Doug In a message dated 1/10/2008 11:33:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, pequeajim@gmail.com writes: Doug, I think you have to keep things in perspective. I don't think anyone is saying that we need to produce a video of a Lightning doing aerobatics, (at least I'm not). I think the point that Charles is making is that Arion could use a great video that shows the Lightning in flight like other manufacturers, and as Buz mentioned, from different perspectives. I'm not interested in aerobatics in my Lightning, and certainly not interested in a Pitts or a Lancair. If I was, I would have bought one. I think everyone is interested in promoting a great aircraft for what it is . There are some very nice things that can be done in a video production without compromising what Arion has intended for this aircraft. Nobody is trying to "expand the envelope of the design" beyond what it is intended for. Let's not squash creative juices before they get flowing I for one think it is a great idea and would be very beneficial to Arion AN D their retail centers like Green Landings. Happy flying Jim! **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:14 PM PST US From: Charles Dewey Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Lightning Videos I photograph cars for eBay for part-time work. Give me a car to photograph and give it to your average Ebay'er and you will swear they are two different cars. The same can be true for video/photographs of the Lighning, which is why i think the right professional could do a great job, and could either blow your socks off or make you wanna buy a Sonex. It's all in the way it's presented, more so than in what it is you actually have. The right photograph/video can be priceless. --- Jim Langley wrote: > thanks Buz, great thoughts, (as usual) > > On 1/10/08, N1BZRich@aol.com > wrote: > > > > In a message dated 1/10/2008 7:32:27 A.M. Eastern > Standard Time, > > pequeajim@gmail.com writes: > > > > I think like earlier Sonex Aircraft, it will, and > should be up to us to > > help out in this area. The belly cam is a great > idea for some of the action > > shots as is a wingtip cam. > > > > Charles, Jim, Brian, and all, > > > > I think you guys are on to something that > would be a great > > "information" tool for the Lightning aircraft, but > only if done the right > > way. You want to show the great looking Lightning > in flight, but avoid > > maneuvers that could possible be thought of as > aerobatic, for obvious > > reasons. > > The Sonex video you are talking about is > probably the one by Tony > > Spicer of NC who is an ex F-4 back seat navigator > (I did not know him while > > I was flying the F-4, but have since met him). > His video goes over his > > experiences building the Sonex then has some good > in-flight video of him > > playing fighter pilot and rolling in on various > imaginary targets. Great > > Fun. A video showing the beautiful lines of the > Lightning in flight, some > > close formation shots, and some low passes down > the runway at speed would be > > a good starting point. > > For the video with the camera mounted on the > aircraft, I am reminded > > of the MGM/Paramount movie "Cloud Dancer" starting > David Carradine and > > Jennifer O'Neil that featured numerous Pitts > aircraft (including mine). > > Yes, I am in the movie also, but you have to > really look quick to see me. > > They cut out most of the stuff that had me talking > to Carradine at a bar and > > telling him how to do various maneuvers. The only > flying he really did was > > in a two seat Pitts with Tom Poberezney doing the > flying. Anyway, they had > > the Pitts factory build a single seat Pitts and a > two Place Pitts with > > camera mounts on the tail, the wing tip, and on > the top wing centerline. > > The mount on the tail, looking forward, gave great > flying shots with the > > perspective that the pilot would see. It made you > "bank" in your seat as > > you watched the movie. The wing tip camera was > aimed at the cockpit for a > > side view perspective. The wing centerline camera > was actually aimed aft to > > film the pilot's face as he pulled "Gs", but also > gave some great shots > > while the Pitts was going vertical seeing the > ground rapidly growing > > smaller. I highly recommend this movie if you can > find a copy (I have two, > > one signed by Carradine). The flying sequences > are fantastic, but the story > > line is about the worst soap opera you can think > of. It has become a cult > > film in the aerobatic world, so that is why it is > hard to find a copy. > > For what you guys are thinking about doing I > think a camera mounted on > > the aircraft centerline (probably inside the > cockpit) would be the best way > > to go for the shots to give the pilot's > perspective. Cameras mounted off > > center (like on the wing tip looking forward) > could give a strange > > perspective of yaw depending on how far forward > you have them aimed. > > Formation shots could be made with a camera man > holding the camera and in > > one of the airplanes for some shots and on the > ground for others. As to > > belly mounted cameras, the only experience I have > with that would be in the > > F-4 where we some times carried the KB-18 camera > which actually looked aft > > and filmed weapons release and effects. Such > things as bombs and napalm > > hitting the targets. Great stuff, but probably > not what we need, although > > one slightly off center on the belly looking > forward might be interesting > > for takeoffs and landings. We also had a gun > camera mounted that would film > > the pilot's eye perspective and it was great for > air to air combat shots. > > That is kind of video shot would best show what > the pilot sees when flying > > a Lightning, so a camera mounted near centerline > in the cockpit would > > probably give good video and be easiest to mount > and operate. > > Keep the idea alive. And if someone has the > expertise and the new > > small video camera with enough resolution to give > excellent results, then I > > think if would be well worth the effort. I think > Tony Spicer, mentioned > > above, sold lots of copys of his video to > perspective Sonex customers. > > Blue Skies, > > Buz > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in > shapein > the new year. > > > > * > > > > * > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:30 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos In a message dated 1/10/2008 3:00:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Kayberg@aol.com writes: Good luck on trying to recognize Buz in it. I havent found him on it yet!! Doug and all, You have to look really quick since they cut all the footage of me talking to Carradine at the bar. In reality, he was asking me how to do various maneuvers and I of course was "talking with my hands". The cameras were rolling all around us and of course I am thinking "boy I am going to be a movie star", but of course they cut all that because in the movie he was the aerobatic champion of the world and thus he would be showing me how to do the maneuvers instead of me telling him. I am in the scene that is the airshow party where the Mexican band is playing. Remember this was about 1979 so the hair is not grey, I am wearing a ball cap, and you just see the side then back of my head for a split second. Bummer. I should be getting royalties for all these years. As a side note, Joseph Bottoms, who played the up and coming guy that bought "Brad Randolph's" single seat Pitts in the movie, actually started taking flying lessons during the filming and soloed a Decathlon there in Phoenix. The sequence where he took Colleen Camp (playing Miss Fort Worth) flying was filmed on about a 100 degree day so you can imagine how hot the ramp was while she was rolling around on the ramp. Her back (in that bathing suit) looked like it was blistered from the hear. But she did look delightful in the swim suit. All of us locals were panting, but not from the heat. Buz PS: I will sign autographs at the next "Lightnings Return to SYI" meeting. ;-) **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:17 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Videos Guys, I would only be too happy to get involved in creating a video for the lightning I am a future-Lightning builder, but my real-job is producing videos and doing fx for tv and film. I have my own pro camera and editing/fx gear. Here's the problem. I'm located in Perth Australia, so it's a bit hard to get out to Shelbyville :-), although I do travel to the US on business a few times per year so maybe there is a way. There are two kits being built here in Perth so I could possibly shoot some footage here for you guys if needed. 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