Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:26 AM - Re: Sample Weight and Balance (jhausch)
2. 11:12 AM - Re: Retractable gear (Charles Dewey)
3. 12:29 PM - Re: Re: Retractable gear (Brian Whittingham)
4. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Retractable gear (N1BZRich@aol.com)
5. 03:35 PM - POH and brake pads (N1BZRich@aol.com)
6. 04:49 PM - brakes (Tex Mantell)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Sample Weight and Balance |
Someone sent me a sample worksheet. Using that worksheet and data from the website,
I put together a few sample W&B.
What I noticed so far:
Seems like it is nearly impossible to exceed the fwd limits.
However, it also seems like there is room for more than 50# of bags without exceeding
the aft limits. (there was a 50# baggage limit on the sample sheet I got
from the other list member)
I am interested in others' W&B data if anyone would care to share.
Also, can anyone tell me the approximate dims of the baggage floor and distance
from baggage floor to the top of the backs of the seats?
Regards,
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158247#158247
Message 2
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Subject: | RE: Retractable gear |
Any plans for a retractable gear Lightning?
--- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Charles,
> Not a problem. It might be worth at least
> arranging fuel as we guarantee that it'll be there
> and can even tell you a rate before hand. Also if
> we have your schedule and you need or want to add
> services other than fuel then we'd be on the same
> page. Flight planning, other than permits and
> customs is pretty easy, but weather can be kind of
> tricky out there. We've got a lot of experienced
> people and are a 24/7 365 day company. One thing
> that we did the other day was arrange for a group of
> 150 passengers to be transported from Raleigh to
> Charleston after Spirit Airlines had to divert due
> to weather. We arranged for ground transport within
> an hour for that many people at 2am in the morning.
> We found a bus company that had an after hours
> number and got a couple of buses and the guy called
> all his friends to bring personal SUV's. That's
> just an example of how having a team of people that
> know how to think outside the box. It really does
> benefit when traveling international and outside the
> familiar comfort zone. Brian W.> Date: Sun, 13 Jan
> 2008 21:21:29 -0800> From: cdewey6969@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: Lightning-List: RE: Lightning gas
> tanks/// extending range/// Caribbean Fuel $$$> To:
> lightning-list@matronics.com> > --> Lightning-List
> message posted by: Charles Dewey
> <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Brian, Thanks for hte tip;
> I'll file tghis email away> until I need it.
> Charles> --- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com>
> wrote:> > > > > Charles,> > I've had a lot of
> friends flying around the> > Caribbean and
> Netherland Antilles and never heard of> > anybody
> being greated with machine guns. I'm not> > saying
> that it has never happened, just not> > regularly.
> Costa Rica is a very poor place though. > > I work
> at a company that does International Trip> >
> Support, mostly for private and charter aircraft. >
> > If you're really worried about it contact one of>
> > these guys and do a fuel and or ground handling
> only> > request. I work for Baseops International,
> which is> > owned by World Fuel and owns Avcard. I
> talk to St.> > Thomas on a nearly daily basis. When
> I was in> > college we'd fly way out in the Bahama
> islands and> > never had problems to where we had to
> bribe or> > anything. What we did run into is
> maintenance> > issues. Blow out a tire on a Cessna
> on landing,> > gotta fly another one in to replace
> it. I know that> > it would not be legal in the US
> to bring in your own> > auto fuel unless the airport
> specifically authorized> > it in their official
> airport rules (has a different> > name but forget it
> now) Being international it> > might be just fine to
> bring auto fuel though. Use> > your best judgement
> but I'd about fill some jugs,> > fuel when nobody is
> looking and go for it! As far> > as $5 for avgas on
> islands, where do you live at? > > It's right at
> that here in TX! When flying around> > Central
> America and the Caribbean islands you also> > have
> to watch out for permits. Maybe that's why> > some
> of the horror stories are from. You have> > landing
> permits, overflight permits, customs, etc. > >
> Overflight of Cuba doesn't mean over the land or> >
> even off the coast like what it is in the US. > >
> Panama has a wide spread ADIZ which extends many> >
> times the size of the entire country. My company> >
> can arrange all of this, plus contract fuel if> >
> you're interested. See:> >>
>
http://www.wfscorp.com/wfscorp/services/aviation_fp.html>
> > and see here: http://www.baseops.com/ You can do>
> > all your flight planning and set up your own
> stuff,> > but run the risk of violating airspaces
> and such. > > We can track you when you're in the
> air and arrange> > services to accomodate
> accordingly. With our huge> > databases and personal
> contacts it is quicker and> > easier than if you
> were to do it. One of the guys> > that I work with
> has some friends that are run a> > ground handling
> supervisory company in that part of> > the world and
> makes it easier to set up and arrange> > than an
> individual. We also keep monthly Cuba> > overflight
> permissions on file for those that can't> > wait.
> Just a thought, do your homework, lock your> >
> plane, and fly safe. Brian W. > Date: Sun, 13 Jan> >
> 2008 20:27:40 -0800> From: cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> >
> Subject: Lightning-List: RE: Lightning gas tanks///>
> > extending range/// Caribbean Fuel $$$> To:> >
> lightning-list@matronics.com> > --> Lightning-List>
> > message posted by: Charles Dewey> >
> <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Anyone out there ever> >
> flown from Fl. deep into the> Caribbean? Trying to>
> > do some research and get> prepared. Some threads
> say> > that be prepared to pay> lots of bribes and
> $5 avgas> > , even if you're just> stopping for
> fuel, plus big $> > like 45$ fee for> bringing the
> fuel truck to your> > plane. Dominican> Republic is
> said to be bad; they> > will greet you with a>
> machine gun and an extended> > hand. Does anyone
> remember> the name of the> > collapsible fuel tank
> they had @ Sun n> Fun 1 or 2> > years ago. It
> greatly extended range;> thought that> > it would be
> a good idea to avoid landing> too much> > enroute to
> St. Thomas. If I remember> correctly, it> > could be
> stored in the cabin and had a> line that> > somehow
> went to your gas tank. Also, anyone> know of> > a
> way to get more fuel creatively? I guess I'm> too> >
> late to get the Xtra capacity tanks from arion now>>
> > that my plane is done. The good thing about the>>
> > Lightning is b/c it taked 93 super auto gas, it> >
> should> be easy to get on any island. I've read> >
> horror stories> of people landing on an island only>
> > to find out the> avgas won't arrive for a week.
> Are> > airports that> sell avgas allowing of people
> to haul> > in a 20 gallon> jug of auto gas- or is
> that> > something not frowned upon> at airports?
> Charles> >> > > > > --- Brian Whittingham
> <dashvii@hotmail.com>> > wrote:> > > > > I agree! I
> would've loved to have> > been able to do> > that
> kind of a thing with my dad> > when I was young. > >
> I remember several times> > working on tractors,> >
> combines, and cotton pickers> > back in the day
> with> > him when I was young and> > loved that. I
> still would> > really love to build a> > plane. > >
> > > On the previous topic about the> > Odyssey and
> the> > Dynon. I know the Dynon that we> > had in
> the> > prototype would get lost if turing one> > way
> and then> > whipping it the other way. It was> >
> like an> > electronic version of a gyro tumbling.> >
> I've also> > heard of that particular version> >
> getting lost in> > turbulence. Not knocking Dynon
> as> > I've only had> > experience with that one
> model. I> > believe the> > reasoning was that it
> only had a dual> > axis solid> > state gyro where
> the GR had a 3 axis.> > I have no> > idea about the
> Odyssey and what it's> > capable of. I> > know that
> the GR stuff had all of> > the same listed> >
> usability and programibility as> > far as I can
> recall.> > One added benefit of using> > that
> equipment is also> > that the Arion folks know> >
> that system and can help> > troubleshoot or can get>
> > it replaced easily. Just a> > few little thoughts
> on> > panel layout. Brian W.> > > > > > From:> >
> N1BZRich@aol.comDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2008> > 22:44:52>
> > -0500Subject: Re: Lightning-List:> > StartedTo:> >
> lightning-list@matronics.com> > > > > > In a
> message> > dated 1/13/2008 10:05:27 A.M. Eastern> >
> Standard> > Time, cjk129@cox.net writes:> > However,
> with a> > wife, three kids, a dog and a full> > time
> job, my> > ambition is to fly in spring 2009. > > >
> > Great,> > Colin. I hope it becomes a family
> project so> > that> > they feel they are part of the
> process. Don't> >> > know how old your kids are, but
> even at a young age>> > > they can do some things
> like hand you tools. And>> > > this spring of 2009
> is certainly a realistic> > goal.> > Buz> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > Start the year off right.> > Easy ways to stay in
> shape> > in the new year. > > >> > > > > > >>> >>
>
_________________________________________________________________>>
> > > Get the power of Windows + Web with the new> >
> Windows> > Live.> >>> >>
>
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008>>
> > > > > Looking for last minu==========> > > > >>
>
_________________________________________________________________>
> > Make distant family not so distant with Windows> >
> Vista + Windows Live.> >>
>
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008>
> > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and >
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_y========================>
> _========================> _===============> > >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows
> Live.
>
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 3
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Subject: | RE: Retractable gear |
Charles,
Nope, look at the current industry trends, Cirrus, Lancair, new Cessnas
are all going to fixed gear, reason being, insurance. The Arion team is i
nterested in a quick, affordable plane, and that would drive insurance up a
lot. Also look at what you gain. Diamond aircraft figured that they woul
d gain somewhere around 2 knots I believe it was from the one with wheelpan
ts. So you don't gain much speed, a little on looks, but I think you hit t
he point of diminishing returns there. Brian W.> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11
:11:29 -0800> From: cdewey6969@yahoo.com> Subject: Lightning-List: RE: Retr
actable gear> To: lightning-list@matronics.com> > --> Lightning-List messag
e posted by: Charles Dewey <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Any plans for a retrac
table gear Lightning? > > > > > > --- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.co
m> wrote:> > > > > Charles, > > Not a problem. It might be worth at least>
> arranging fuel as we guarantee that it'll be there> > and can even tell y
ou a rate before hand. Also if> > we have your schedule and you need or wan
t to add> > services other than fuel then we'd be on the same> > page. Flig
ht planning, other than permits and> > customs is pretty easy, but weather
can be kind of> > tricky out there. We've got a lot of experienced> > peopl
e and are a 24/7 365 day company. One thing> > that we did the other day wa
s arrange for a group of> > 150 passengers to be transported from Raleigh t
o> > Charleston after Spirit Airlines had to divert due> > to weather. We a
rranged for ground transport within> > an hour for that many people at 2am
in the morning. > > We found a bus company that had an after hours> > numbe
r and got a couple of buses and the guy called> > all his friends to bring
personal SUV's. That's> > just an example of how having a team of people th
at> > know how to think outside the box. It really does> > benefit when tra
veling international and outside the> > familiar comfort zone. Brian W.> Da
te: Sun, 13 Jan> > 2008 21:21:29 -0800> From: cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Subj
ect: RE: Lightning-List: RE: Lightning gas> > tanks/// extending range/// C
aribbean Fuel $$$> To:> > lightning-list@matronics.com> > --> Lightning-Lis
t> > message posted by: Charles Dewey> > <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Brian, T
hanks for hte tip;> > I'll file tghis email away> until I need it.> > Charl
es> --- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com>> > wrote:> > > > > Charles,
> > I've had a lot of> > friends flying around the> > Caribbean and> > Neth
erland Antilles and never heard of> > anybody> > being greated with machine
guns. I'm not> > saying> > that it has never happened, just not> > regular
ly.> > Costa Rica is a very poor place though. > > I work> > at a company t
hat does International Trip> >> > Support, mostly for private and charter a
ircraft. >> > > If you're really worried about it contact one of>> > > thes
e guys and do a fuel and or ground handling> > only> > request. I work for
Baseops International,> > which is> > owned by World Fuel and owns Avcard.
I> > talk to St.> > Thomas on a nearly daily basis. When> > I was in> > col
lege we'd fly way out in the Bahama> > islands and> > never had problems to
where we had to> > bribe or> > anything. What we did run into is> > mainte
nance> > issues. Blow out a tire on a Cessna> > on landing,> > gotta fly an
other one in to replace> > it. I know that> > it would not be legal in the
US> > to bring in your own> > auto fuel unless the airport> > specifically
authorized> > it in their official> > airport rules (has a different> > nam
e but forget it> > now) Being international it> > might be just fine to> >
bring auto fuel though. Use> > your best judgement> > but I'd about fill so
me jugs,> > fuel when nobody is> > looking and go for it! As far> > as $5 f
or avgas on> > islands, where do you live at? > > It's right at> > that her
e in TX! When flying around> > Central> > America and the Caribbean islands
you also> > have> > to watch out for permits. Maybe that's why> > some> >
of the horror stories are from. You have> > landing> > permits, overflight
permits, customs, etc. > >> > Overflight of Cuba doesn't mean over the land
or> >> > even off the coast like what it is in the US. > >> > Panama has a
wide spread ADIZ which extends many> >> > times the size of the entire cou
ntry. My company> >> > can arrange all of this, plus contract fuel if> >> >
you're interested. See:> >>> >> http://www.wfscorp.com/wfscorp/services/av
iation_fp.html>> > > and see here: http://www.baseops.com/ You can do>> > >
all your flight planning and set up your own> > stuff,> > but run the risk
of violating airspaces> > and such. > > We can track you when you're in th
e> > air and arrange> > services to accomodate> > accordingly. With our hug
e> > databases and personal> > contacts it is quicker and> > easier than if
you> > were to do it. One of the guys> > that I work with> > has some frie
nds that are run a> > ground handling> > supervisory company in that part o
f> > the world and> > makes it easier to set up and arrange> > than an> > i
ndividual. We also keep monthly Cuba> > overflight> > permissions on file f
or those that can't> > wait.> > Just a thought, do your homework, lock your
> >> > plane, and fly safe. Brian W. > Date: Sun, 13 Jan> >> > 2008 20:27:4
0 -0800> From: cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> >> > Subject: Lightning-List: RE: Lig
htning gas tanks///>> > > extending range/// Caribbean Fuel $$$> To:> >> >
lightning-list@matronics.com> > --> Lightning-List>> > > message posted by:
Charles Dewey> >> > <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Anyone out there ever> >> >
flown from Fl. deep into the> Caribbean? Trying to>> > > do some research a
nd get> prepared. Some threads> > say> > that be prepared to pay> lots of b
ribes and> > $5 avgas> > , even if you're just> stopping for> > fuel, plus
big $> > like 45$ fee for> bringing the> > fuel truck to your> > plane. Dom
inican> Republic is> > said to be bad; they> > will greet you with a>> > ma
chine gun and an extended> > hand. Does anyone> > remember> the name of the
> > collapsible fuel tank> > they had @ Sun n> Fun 1 or 2> > years ago. It>
> greatly extended range;> thought that> > it would be> > a good idea to a
void landing> too much> > enroute to> > St. Thomas. If I remember> correctl
y, it> > could be> > stored in the cabin and had a> line that> > somehow> >
went to your gas tank. Also, anyone> know of> > a> > way to get more fuel
creatively? I guess I'm> too> >> > late to get the Xtra capacity tanks from
arion now>>> > > that my plane is done. The good thing about the>>> > > Li
ghtning is b/c it taked 93 super auto gas, it> >> > should> be easy to get
on any island. I've read> >> > horror stories> of people landing on an isla
nd only>> > > to find out the> avgas won't arrive for a week.> > Are> > air
ports that> sell avgas allowing of people> > to haul> > in a 20 gallon> jug
of auto gas- or is> > that> > something not frowned upon> at airports?> >
Charles> >> > > > > --- Brian Whittingham> > <dashvii@hotmail.com>> > wrote
:> > > > > I agree! I> > would've loved to have> > been able to do> > that>
> kind of a thing with my dad> > when I was young. > >> > I remember sever
al times> > working on tractors,> >> > combines, and cotton pickers> > back
in the day> > with> > him when I was young and> > loved that. I> > still w
ould> > really love to build a> > plane. > >> > > > On the previous topic a
bout the> > Odyssey and> > the> > Dynon. I know the Dynon that we> > had in
> > the> > prototype would get lost if turing one> > way> > and then> > whi
pping it the other way. It was> >> > like an> > electronic version of a gyr
o tumbling.> >> > I've also> > heard of that particular version> >> > getti
ng lost in> > turbulence. Not knocking Dynon> > as> > I've only had> > expe
rience with that one> > model. I> > believe the> > reasoning was that it> >
only had a dual> > axis solid> > state gyro where> > the GR had a 3 axis.>
> I have no> > idea about the> > Odyssey and what it's> > capable of. I> >
know that> > the GR stuff had all of> > the same listed> >> > usability an
d programibility as> > far as I can> > recall.> > One added benefit of usin
g> > that> > equipment is also> > that the Arion folks know> >> > that syst
em and can help> > troubleshoot or can get>> > > it replaced easily. Just a
> > few little thoughts> > on> > panel layout. Brian W.> > > > > > From:> >
> > N1BZRich@aol.comDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2008> > 22:44:52>> > > -0500Subject:
Re: Lightning-List:> > StartedTo:> >> > lightning-list@matronics.com> > > >
> > In a> > message> > dated 1/13/2008 10:05:27 A.M. Eastern> >> > Standar
d> > Time, cjk129@cox.net writes:> > However,> > with a> > wife, three kids
, a dog and a full> > time> > job, my> > ambition is to fly in spring 2009.
> > >> > > Great,> > Colin. I hope it becomes a family> > project so> > th
at> > they feel they are part of the> > process. Don't> >> > know how old y
our kids are, but> > even at a young age>> > > they can do some things> > l
ike hand you tools. And>> > > this spring of 2009> > is certainly a realist
ic> > goal.> > Buz> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > Start the year off right.> > Easy ways to stay in> > shape>
> in the new year. > > >> > > > > > >>> >>> >> ___________________________
______________________________________>>> > > > Get the power of Windows +
Web with the new> >> > Windows> > Live.> >>> >>> >> http://www.windowslive.
com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008>>> > > > > > Looking for l
ast minu==========> > > > >>> >> ______________________
___________________________________________>> > > Make distant family not s
o distant with Windows> >> > Vista=AE + Windows Live=99.> >>> >> http://www
.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_Vi
deoChat_distantfamily_012008>> > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and >
> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.> > http://mobile.yahoo.com/
;_y========================
>> > _=======================
=> _===============> > > > >> _____________
____________________________________________________> > Get the power of Wi
ndows + Web with the new Windows> > Live.> >> http://www.windowslive.com?oc
id=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008> > > > Looking for last minute s
-========================
========> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008
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Subject: | Re: RE: Retractable gear |
Let me add my $.02 to what Brian has said. Basically a retract gear
Lightning would suffer in almost every aspect of ownership. Initial acquisition
would be more (higher kit cost and increased time to build), operating cost
would be more (Brian mentioned insurance, but being a more expensive airplane
would also result in other increased cost such as higher taxes, etc), and
maintenance cost and maintenance time would be much more. If an airplane has
correctly designed fixed gear leg fairing and wheel pants (as the Lightning does),
the increased cost, weight penalty and complexities of a retract system
just do not justify the small speed increase that might be possible. I guess,
what I am saying is I think the Arion guys hit a home run with the Lightning
the way it is. It is aimed at a segment of the market where it really has no
direct competition and it certainly does it mission profile efficiently while
looking like a "million bucks". I really don't think there is a comparable
airplane that does what the Lightning does and can be built in such a short
time.
Your mileage may vary.
Blue Skies and Happy motoring.
Buz
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 5
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Subject: | POH and brake pads |
All,
There are two things I have been meaning to mention, but I have been too
busy lately to get "words on paper" - or should that be words on a computer
screen.
First, I recently was talking to an EAA member who has been flying his
"relatively well known experimental type" airplane for a few years. He
happened to see the Pilot's Operating Handbook (POH or flight manual) that I
developed for N31BZ and after looking through it he said, "Wow, that is a great
POH. I need to do one for my airplane." My question was, "You don't have one
yet?" When he replied no, I was stunned that here was someone that really does
not understand the complete purpose of FAA Phase One testing for
experimental aircraft, and that by regulation, you can not start Phase Two (normal
operations outside the initial 40 hour test area) until you have developed a POH
for your airplane. As nicely as I could I informed him of the requirement and
I hope he takes my suggestion to heart.
Now, Lightning builders are pretty lucky in this regard. Arion has a
great POH that has been developed specifically for the Lightning. To make your
airplane legal for phase two you only have to do two things: First (the
easy part) is make a copy of the POH that Lightning will give you with a few
changes. And second (the changes), develop section five (the aircraft
performance section of the POH) for your aircraft. That is a large part of the
40
hour phase one testing - to determine your airplanes actual performance
numbers. Put your airplanes performance data in section five of the Lightning
POH
and you are ready for phase two flying. The data in section five that comes
to you is for the Lightning prototype and your airplane will have different
performance numbers.
The second thing I have been meaning to pass on has to do with the Matco
wheels and brakes as used on the Lightning and 31BZ. Matco makes a great
light weight product, but after flying 31BZ for two years and some 400+ hours,
one thing stands out that is different from other wheel and brake
combinations I have used on other airplanes. That one thing is that the brake
pad
linings just don't last as long as I have experienced in the past. I have only
been getting about one years use before having to replace the pads. Now, I do
fly 32BZ a lot - have averaged over 200+ hours a year and that probably
equates to 300 to 400 landings - but that is about what I have done on other
airplanes as well. In my mind, two things are different. First, this is the
first airplane I have owned where you steer with the brakes while taxiing and
that obviously has an effect on brake pad life. Second, the Matco pads are a
little thinner than others I have used. I still have some new Cleveland pads
for the Pitts and I measured them against the Matco and there was a noticeable
difference with the Matco pads being thinner. Aircraft Spruce had
replacement pads that will fit the Matco and they are a little thicker as well.
I
used those when I did the annual last month, so next year I will see if that
makes any difference.
Why am I mentioning this? I guess I was surprised at how thin they were
worn at this annual and these had only been on 31BZ since April 2007. Heck,
Nick helped me change both sides while we were at Sun-N-Fun. What happens
is that when the pads get thin, the brake piston can extend far enough out of
the brake body to let the O-ring be partially exposed and that leads to brake
fluid leaking out and thus no brakes on that side. Yep, happened to me
taxiing on the rough grass parking area at SNF. So my recommendation is do not
fail to check your pad thickness when you have the wheel pants off and don't
expect them to last much over a year. They are easy to change if you buy the
brake pad rivet tool kit that is readily available from Aircraft Spruce.
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
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Buz, thanks for the heads up on the brakes. Tex
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