Lightning-List Digest Archive

Tue 01/15/08


Total Messages Posted: 6



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:26 AM - Re: Sample Weight and Balance (jhausch)
     2. 11:12 AM - Re: Retractable gear (Charles Dewey)
     3. 12:29 PM - Re: Re: Retractable gear (Brian Whittingham)
     4. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Retractable gear (N1BZRich@aol.com)
     5. 03:35 PM - POH and brake pads (N1BZRich@aol.com)
     6. 04:49 PM - brakes (Tex Mantell)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:26:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sample Weight and Balance
    From: "jhausch" <jhausch@charter.net>
    Someone sent me a sample worksheet. Using that worksheet and data from the website, I put together a few sample W&B. What I noticed so far: Seems like it is nearly impossible to exceed the fwd limits. However, it also seems like there is room for more than 50# of bags without exceeding the aft limits. (there was a 50# baggage limit on the sample sheet I got from the other list member) I am interested in others' W&B data if anyone would care to share. Also, can anyone tell me the approximate dims of the baggage floor and distance from baggage floor to the top of the backs of the seats? Regards, Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158247#158247


    Message 2


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    Time: 11:12:57 AM PST US
    From: Charles Dewey <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>
    Subject: RE: Retractable gear
    Any plans for a retractable gear Lightning? --- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Charles, > Not a problem. It might be worth at least > arranging fuel as we guarantee that it'll be there > and can even tell you a rate before hand. Also if > we have your schedule and you need or want to add > services other than fuel then we'd be on the same > page. Flight planning, other than permits and > customs is pretty easy, but weather can be kind of > tricky out there. We've got a lot of experienced > people and are a 24/7 365 day company. One thing > that we did the other day was arrange for a group of > 150 passengers to be transported from Raleigh to > Charleston after Spirit Airlines had to divert due > to weather. We arranged for ground transport within > an hour for that many people at 2am in the morning. > We found a bus company that had an after hours > number and got a couple of buses and the guy called > all his friends to bring personal SUV's. That's > just an example of how having a team of people that > know how to think outside the box. It really does > benefit when traveling international and outside the > familiar comfort zone. Brian W.> Date: Sun, 13 Jan > 2008 21:21:29 -0800> From: cdewey6969@yahoo.com> > Subject: RE: Lightning-List: RE: Lightning gas > tanks/// extending range/// Caribbean Fuel $$$> To: > lightning-list@matronics.com> > --> Lightning-List > message posted by: Charles Dewey > <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Brian, Thanks for hte tip; > I'll file tghis email away> until I need it. > Charles> --- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com> > wrote:> > > > > Charles,> > I've had a lot of > friends flying around the> > Caribbean and > Netherland Antilles and never heard of> > anybody > being greated with machine guns. I'm not> > saying > that it has never happened, just not> > regularly. > Costa Rica is a very poor place though. > > I work > at a company that does International Trip> > > Support, mostly for private and charter aircraft. > > > If you're really worried about it contact one of> > > these guys and do a fuel and or ground handling > only> > request. I work for Baseops International, > which is> > owned by World Fuel and owns Avcard. I > talk to St.> > Thomas on a nearly daily basis. When > I was in> > college we'd fly way out in the Bahama > islands and> > never had problems to where we had to > bribe or> > anything. What we did run into is > maintenance> > issues. Blow out a tire on a Cessna > on landing,> > gotta fly another one in to replace > it. I know that> > it would not be legal in the US > to bring in your own> > auto fuel unless the airport > specifically authorized> > it in their official > airport rules (has a different> > name but forget it > now) Being international it> > might be just fine to > bring auto fuel though. Use> > your best judgement > but I'd about fill some jugs,> > fuel when nobody is > looking and go for it! As far> > as $5 for avgas on > islands, where do you live at? > > It's right at > that here in TX! When flying around> > Central > America and the Caribbean islands you also> > have > to watch out for permits. Maybe that's why> > some > of the horror stories are from. You have> > landing > permits, overflight permits, customs, etc. > > > Overflight of Cuba doesn't mean over the land or> > > even off the coast like what it is in the US. > > > Panama has a wide spread ADIZ which extends many> > > times the size of the entire country. My company> > > can arrange all of this, plus contract fuel if> > > you're interested. See:> >> > http://www.wfscorp.com/wfscorp/services/aviation_fp.html> > > and see here: http://www.baseops.com/ You can do> > > all your flight planning and set up your own > stuff,> > but run the risk of violating airspaces > and such. > > We can track you when you're in the > air and arrange> > services to accomodate > accordingly. With our huge> > databases and personal > contacts it is quicker and> > easier than if you > were to do it. One of the guys> > that I work with > has some friends that are run a> > ground handling > supervisory company in that part of> > the world and > makes it easier to set up and arrange> > than an > individual. We also keep monthly Cuba> > overflight > permissions on file for those that can't> > wait. > Just a thought, do your homework, lock your> > > plane, and fly safe. Brian W. > Date: Sun, 13 Jan> > > 2008 20:27:40 -0800> From: cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > > Subject: Lightning-List: RE: Lightning gas tanks///> > > extending range/// Caribbean Fuel $$$> To:> > > lightning-list@matronics.com> > --> Lightning-List> > > message posted by: Charles Dewey> > > <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Anyone out there ever> > > flown from Fl. deep into the> Caribbean? Trying to> > > do some research and get> prepared. Some threads > say> > that be prepared to pay> lots of bribes and > $5 avgas> > , even if you're just> stopping for > fuel, plus big $> > like 45$ fee for> bringing the > fuel truck to your> > plane. Dominican> Republic is > said to be bad; they> > will greet you with a> > machine gun and an extended> > hand. Does anyone > remember> the name of the> > collapsible fuel tank > they had @ Sun n> Fun 1 or 2> > years ago. It > greatly extended range;> thought that> > it would be > a good idea to avoid landing> too much> > enroute to > St. Thomas. If I remember> correctly, it> > could be > stored in the cabin and had a> line that> > somehow > went to your gas tank. Also, anyone> know of> > a > way to get more fuel creatively? I guess I'm> too> > > late to get the Xtra capacity tanks from arion now>> > > that my plane is done. The good thing about the>> > > Lightning is b/c it taked 93 super auto gas, it> > > should> be easy to get on any island. I've read> > > horror stories> of people landing on an island only> > > to find out the> avgas won't arrive for a week. > Are> > airports that> sell avgas allowing of people > to haul> > in a 20 gallon> jug of auto gas- or is > that> > something not frowned upon> at airports? > Charles> >> > > > > --- Brian Whittingham > <dashvii@hotmail.com>> > wrote:> > > > > I agree! I > would've loved to have> > been able to do> > that > kind of a thing with my dad> > when I was young. > > > I remember several times> > working on tractors,> > > combines, and cotton pickers> > back in the day > with> > him when I was young and> > loved that. I > still would> > really love to build a> > plane. > > > > > On the previous topic about the> > Odyssey and > the> > Dynon. I know the Dynon that we> > had in > the> > prototype would get lost if turing one> > way > and then> > whipping it the other way. It was> > > like an> > electronic version of a gyro tumbling.> > > I've also> > heard of that particular version> > > getting lost in> > turbulence. Not knocking Dynon > as> > I've only had> > experience with that one > model. I> > believe the> > reasoning was that it > only had a dual> > axis solid> > state gyro where > the GR had a 3 axis.> > I have no> > idea about the > Odyssey and what it's> > capable of. I> > know that > the GR stuff had all of> > the same listed> > > usability and programibility as> > far as I can > recall.> > One added benefit of using> > that > equipment is also> > that the Arion folks know> > > that system and can help> > troubleshoot or can get> > > it replaced easily. Just a> > few little thoughts > on> > panel layout. Brian W.> > > > > > From:> > > N1BZRich@aol.comDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2008> > 22:44:52> > > -0500Subject: Re: Lightning-List:> > StartedTo:> > > lightning-list@matronics.com> > > > > > In a > message> > dated 1/13/2008 10:05:27 A.M. Eastern> > > Standard> > Time, cjk129@cox.net writes:> > However, > with a> > wife, three kids, a dog and a full> > time > job, my> > ambition is to fly in spring 2009. > > > > > Great,> > Colin. I hope it becomes a family > project so> > that> > they feel they are part of the > process. Don't> >> > know how old your kids are, but > even at a young age>> > > they can do some things > like hand you tools. And>> > > this spring of 2009 > is certainly a realistic> > goal.> > Buz> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Start the year off right.> > Easy ways to stay in > shape> > in the new year. > > >> > > > > > >>> >> > _________________________________________________________________>> > > > Get the power of Windows + Web with the new> > > Windows> > Live.> >>> >> > http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008>> > > > > > Looking for last minu==========> > > > >> > _________________________________________________________________> > > Make distant family not so distant with Windows> > > Vista + Windows Live.> >> > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008> > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_y========================> > _========================> _===============> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows > Live. > http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008 Looking for last minute shopping deals?


    Message 3


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    Time: 12:29:17 PM PST US
    From: Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com>
    Subject: RE: Retractable gear
    Charles, Nope, look at the current industry trends, Cirrus, Lancair, new Cessnas are all going to fixed gear, reason being, insurance. The Arion team is i nterested in a quick, affordable plane, and that would drive insurance up a lot. Also look at what you gain. Diamond aircraft figured that they woul d gain somewhere around 2 knots I believe it was from the one with wheelpan ts. So you don't gain much speed, a little on looks, but I think you hit t he point of diminishing returns there. Brian W.> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11 :11:29 -0800> From: cdewey6969@yahoo.com> Subject: Lightning-List: RE: Retr actable gear> To: lightning-list@matronics.com> > --> Lightning-List messag e posted by: Charles Dewey <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Any plans for a retrac table gear Lightning? > > > > > > --- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.co m> wrote:> > > > > Charles, > > Not a problem. It might be worth at least> > arranging fuel as we guarantee that it'll be there> > and can even tell y ou a rate before hand. Also if> > we have your schedule and you need or wan t to add> > services other than fuel then we'd be on the same> > page. Flig ht planning, other than permits and> > customs is pretty easy, but weather can be kind of> > tricky out there. We've got a lot of experienced> > peopl e and are a 24/7 365 day company. One thing> > that we did the other day wa s arrange for a group of> > 150 passengers to be transported from Raleigh t o> > Charleston after Spirit Airlines had to divert due> > to weather. We a rranged for ground transport within> > an hour for that many people at 2am in the morning. > > We found a bus company that had an after hours> > numbe r and got a couple of buses and the guy called> > all his friends to bring personal SUV's. That's> > just an example of how having a team of people th at> > know how to think outside the box. It really does> > benefit when tra veling international and outside the> > familiar comfort zone. Brian W.> Da te: Sun, 13 Jan> > 2008 21:21:29 -0800> From: cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Subj ect: RE: Lightning-List: RE: Lightning gas> > tanks/// extending range/// C aribbean Fuel $$$> To:> > lightning-list@matronics.com> > --> Lightning-Lis t> > message posted by: Charles Dewey> > <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Brian, T hanks for hte tip;> > I'll file tghis email away> until I need it.> > Charl es> --- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com>> > wrote:> > > > > Charles, > > I've had a lot of> > friends flying around the> > Caribbean and> > Neth erland Antilles and never heard of> > anybody> > being greated with machine guns. I'm not> > saying> > that it has never happened, just not> > regular ly.> > Costa Rica is a very poor place though. > > I work> > at a company t hat does International Trip> >> > Support, mostly for private and charter a ircraft. >> > > If you're really worried about it contact one of>> > > thes e guys and do a fuel and or ground handling> > only> > request. I work for Baseops International,> > which is> > owned by World Fuel and owns Avcard. I> > talk to St.> > Thomas on a nearly daily basis. When> > I was in> > col lege we'd fly way out in the Bahama> > islands and> > never had problems to where we had to> > bribe or> > anything. What we did run into is> > mainte nance> > issues. Blow out a tire on a Cessna> > on landing,> > gotta fly an other one in to replace> > it. I know that> > it would not be legal in the US> > to bring in your own> > auto fuel unless the airport> > specifically authorized> > it in their official> > airport rules (has a different> > nam e but forget it> > now) Being international it> > might be just fine to> > bring auto fuel though. Use> > your best judgement> > but I'd about fill so me jugs,> > fuel when nobody is> > looking and go for it! As far> > as $5 f or avgas on> > islands, where do you live at? > > It's right at> > that her e in TX! When flying around> > Central> > America and the Caribbean islands you also> > have> > to watch out for permits. Maybe that's why> > some> > of the horror stories are from. You have> > landing> > permits, overflight permits, customs, etc. > >> > Overflight of Cuba doesn't mean over the land or> >> > even off the coast like what it is in the US. > >> > Panama has a wide spread ADIZ which extends many> >> > times the size of the entire cou ntry. My company> >> > can arrange all of this, plus contract fuel if> >> > you're interested. See:> >>> >> http://www.wfscorp.com/wfscorp/services/av iation_fp.html>> > > and see here: http://www.baseops.com/ You can do>> > > all your flight planning and set up your own> > stuff,> > but run the risk of violating airspaces> > and such. > > We can track you when you're in th e> > air and arrange> > services to accomodate> > accordingly. With our hug e> > databases and personal> > contacts it is quicker and> > easier than if you> > were to do it. One of the guys> > that I work with> > has some frie nds that are run a> > ground handling> > supervisory company in that part o f> > the world and> > makes it easier to set up and arrange> > than an> > i ndividual. We also keep monthly Cuba> > overflight> > permissions on file f or those that can't> > wait.> > Just a thought, do your homework, lock your > >> > plane, and fly safe. Brian W. > Date: Sun, 13 Jan> >> > 2008 20:27:4 0 -0800> From: cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> >> > Subject: Lightning-List: RE: Lig htning gas tanks///>> > > extending range/// Caribbean Fuel $$$> To:> >> > lightning-list@matronics.com> > --> Lightning-List>> > > message posted by: Charles Dewey> >> > <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > Anyone out there ever> >> > flown from Fl. deep into the> Caribbean? Trying to>> > > do some research a nd get> prepared. Some threads> > say> > that be prepared to pay> lots of b ribes and> > $5 avgas> > , even if you're just> stopping for> > fuel, plus big $> > like 45$ fee for> bringing the> > fuel truck to your> > plane. Dom inican> Republic is> > said to be bad; they> > will greet you with a>> > ma chine gun and an extended> > hand. Does anyone> > remember> the name of the > > collapsible fuel tank> > they had @ Sun n> Fun 1 or 2> > years ago. It> > greatly extended range;> thought that> > it would be> > a good idea to a void landing> too much> > enroute to> > St. Thomas. If I remember> correctl y, it> > could be> > stored in the cabin and had a> line that> > somehow> > went to your gas tank. Also, anyone> know of> > a> > way to get more fuel creatively? I guess I'm> too> >> > late to get the Xtra capacity tanks from arion now>>> > > that my plane is done. The good thing about the>>> > > Li ghtning is b/c it taked 93 super auto gas, it> >> > should> be easy to get on any island. I've read> >> > horror stories> of people landing on an isla nd only>> > > to find out the> avgas won't arrive for a week.> > Are> > air ports that> sell avgas allowing of people> > to haul> > in a 20 gallon> jug of auto gas- or is> > that> > something not frowned upon> at airports?> > Charles> >> > > > > --- Brian Whittingham> > <dashvii@hotmail.com>> > wrote :> > > > > I agree! I> > would've loved to have> > been able to do> > that> > kind of a thing with my dad> > when I was young. > >> > I remember sever al times> > working on tractors,> >> > combines, and cotton pickers> > back in the day> > with> > him when I was young and> > loved that. I> > still w ould> > really love to build a> > plane. > >> > > > On the previous topic a bout the> > Odyssey and> > the> > Dynon. I know the Dynon that we> > had in > > the> > prototype would get lost if turing one> > way> > and then> > whi pping it the other way. It was> >> > like an> > electronic version of a gyr o tumbling.> >> > I've also> > heard of that particular version> >> > getti ng lost in> > turbulence. Not knocking Dynon> > as> > I've only had> > expe rience with that one> > model. I> > believe the> > reasoning was that it> > only had a dual> > axis solid> > state gyro where> > the GR had a 3 axis.> > I have no> > idea about the> > Odyssey and what it's> > capable of. I> > know that> > the GR stuff had all of> > the same listed> >> > usability an d programibility as> > far as I can> > recall.> > One added benefit of usin g> > that> > equipment is also> > that the Arion folks know> >> > that syst em and can help> > troubleshoot or can get>> > > it replaced easily. Just a > > few little thoughts> > on> > panel layout. Brian W.> > > > > > From:> > > > N1BZRich@aol.comDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2008> > 22:44:52>> > > -0500Subject: Re: Lightning-List:> > StartedTo:> >> > lightning-list@matronics.com> > > > > > In a> > message> > dated 1/13/2008 10:05:27 A.M. Eastern> >> > Standar d> > Time, cjk129@cox.net writes:> > However,> > with a> > wife, three kids , a dog and a full> > time> > job, my> > ambition is to fly in spring 2009. > > >> > > Great,> > Colin. I hope it becomes a family> > project so> > th at> > they feel they are part of the> > process. Don't> >> > know how old y our kids are, but> > even at a young age>> > > they can do some things> > l ike hand you tools. And>> > > this spring of 2009> > is certainly a realist ic> > goal.> > Buz> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Start the year off right.> > Easy ways to stay in> > shape> > in the new year. > > >> > > > > > >>> >>> >> ___________________________ ______________________________________>>> > > > Get the power of Windows + Web with the new> >> > Windows> > Live.> >>> >>> >> http://www.windowslive. com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008>>> > > > > > Looking for l ast minu==========> > > > >>> >> ______________________ ___________________________________________>> > > Make distant family not s o distant with Windows> >> > Vista=AE + Windows Live=99.> >>> >> http://www .microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_Vi deoChat_distantfamily_012008>> > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.> > http://mobile.yahoo.com/ ;_y======================== >> > _======================= => _===============> > > > >> _____________ ____________________________________________________> > Get the power of Wi ndows + Web with the new Windows> > Live.> >> http://www.windowslive.com?oc id=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008> > > > Looking for last minute s -======================== ========> > > _________________________________________________________________ Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008


    Message 4


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    Time: 02:41:51 PM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@aol.com
    Subject: Re: RE: Retractable gear
    Let me add my $.02 to what Brian has said. Basically a retract gear Lightning would suffer in almost every aspect of ownership. Initial acquisition would be more (higher kit cost and increased time to build), operating cost would be more (Brian mentioned insurance, but being a more expensive airplane would also result in other increased cost such as higher taxes, etc), and maintenance cost and maintenance time would be much more. If an airplane has correctly designed fixed gear leg fairing and wheel pants (as the Lightning does), the increased cost, weight penalty and complexities of a retract system just do not justify the small speed increase that might be possible. I guess, what I am saying is I think the Arion guys hit a home run with the Lightning the way it is. It is aimed at a segment of the market where it really has no direct competition and it certainly does it mission profile efficiently while looking like a "million bucks". I really don't think there is a comparable airplane that does what the Lightning does and can be built in such a short time. Your mileage may vary. Blue Skies and Happy motoring. Buz **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


    Message 5


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    Time: 03:35:41 PM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@aol.com
    Subject: POH and brake pads
    All, There are two things I have been meaning to mention, but I have been too busy lately to get "words on paper" - or should that be words on a computer screen. First, I recently was talking to an EAA member who has been flying his "relatively well known experimental type" airplane for a few years. He happened to see the Pilot's Operating Handbook (POH or flight manual) that I developed for N31BZ and after looking through it he said, "Wow, that is a great POH. I need to do one for my airplane." My question was, "You don't have one yet?" When he replied no, I was stunned that here was someone that really does not understand the complete purpose of FAA Phase One testing for experimental aircraft, and that by regulation, you can not start Phase Two (normal operations outside the initial 40 hour test area) until you have developed a POH for your airplane. As nicely as I could I informed him of the requirement and I hope he takes my suggestion to heart. Now, Lightning builders are pretty lucky in this regard. Arion has a great POH that has been developed specifically for the Lightning. To make your airplane legal for phase two you only have to do two things: First (the easy part) is make a copy of the POH that Lightning will give you with a few changes. And second (the changes), develop section five (the aircraft performance section of the POH) for your aircraft. That is a large part of the 40 hour phase one testing - to determine your airplanes actual performance numbers. Put your airplanes performance data in section five of the Lightning POH and you are ready for phase two flying. The data in section five that comes to you is for the Lightning prototype and your airplane will have different performance numbers. The second thing I have been meaning to pass on has to do with the Matco wheels and brakes as used on the Lightning and 31BZ. Matco makes a great light weight product, but after flying 31BZ for two years and some 400+ hours, one thing stands out that is different from other wheel and brake combinations I have used on other airplanes. That one thing is that the brake pad linings just don't last as long as I have experienced in the past. I have only been getting about one years use before having to replace the pads. Now, I do fly 32BZ a lot - have averaged over 200+ hours a year and that probably equates to 300 to 400 landings - but that is about what I have done on other airplanes as well. In my mind, two things are different. First, this is the first airplane I have owned where you steer with the brakes while taxiing and that obviously has an effect on brake pad life. Second, the Matco pads are a little thinner than others I have used. I still have some new Cleveland pads for the Pitts and I measured them against the Matco and there was a noticeable difference with the Matco pads being thinner. Aircraft Spruce had replacement pads that will fit the Matco and they are a little thicker as well. I used those when I did the annual last month, so next year I will see if that makes any difference. Why am I mentioning this? I guess I was surprised at how thin they were worn at this annual and these had only been on 31BZ since April 2007. Heck, Nick helped me change both sides while we were at Sun-N-Fun. What happens is that when the pads get thin, the brake piston can extend far enough out of the brake body to let the O-ring be partially exposed and that leads to brake fluid leaking out and thus no brakes on that side. Yep, happened to me taxiing on the rough grass parking area at SNF. So my recommendation is do not fail to check your pad thickness when you have the wheel pants off and don't expect them to last much over a year. They are easy to change if you buy the brake pad rivet tool kit that is readily available from Aircraft Spruce. Blue Skies, Buz **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:49:30 PM PST US
    From: "Tex Mantell" <wb2ssj@earthlink.net>
    Subject: brakes
    Buz, thanks for the heads up on the brakes. Tex




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