Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:04 AM - Re: Frustrations and progress (Jim Langley)
2. 07:09 AM - Re: Builders - Outboard Aileron Hinge (nick otterback)
3. 10:19 AM - Upper Rudder Hinge (jeynon)
4. 02:09 PM - Re: Upper Rudder Hinge (jeynon)
5. 05:05 PM - Re: Frustrations and progress (rickss)
6. 05:05 PM - Re: Re: Upper Rudder Hinge (Sales Email Account)
7. 05:32 PM - Re: Gear leg shimmy experiments (jng62433@aol.com)
8. 05:39 PM - Re: Builders - Outboard Aileron Hinge (Colin J. Kennedy)
9. 05:59 PM - Re: Re: Frustrations and progress (Jim Langley)
10. 06:04 PM - Re: Gear leg shimmy experiments (Jim Langley)
11. 06:30 PM - Re: Gear leg shimmy experiments (N1BZRich@aol.com)
12. 06:37 PM - Wheek shimmy (EAFerguson@aol.com)
13. 07:02 PM - Re: Gear leg shimmy experiments (N1BZRich@aol.com)
14. 07:04 PM - Re: Wheek shimmy (N1BZRich@aol.com)
15. 10:12 PM - Bent spanner picture, for rudder elevator and aileron bolting (James, Clive R)
16. 10:12 PM - Bent spanner picture, for rudder elevator and aileron bolting (James, Clive R)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Frustrations and progress |
Thanks Colin. Stay the course!
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Colin J.
Kennedy
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 8:56 PM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Frustrations and progress
Keep at it Jim, you are part of my inspiration!
Colin K.
OK
http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:33 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Frustrations and progress
In between work and family, I am finding time to work on my Lightning. I am
at the stage where I am 90% done with 90% to go. During the build process,
I have experienced many periods of happiness and fun separated by a few
times of frustration. This is just like any other project of this type.
Persistence pays off with a great reward when your bird take to the sky for
the first time.
I want to express my thanks to Ryan and the rest at Green Landings for their
help and patience with my project thus far.
I'm having a great time and am really close now.
Just the remaining wiring, interior and final assembly to go.
Jim!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Builders - Outboard Aileron Hinge |
colin,
There are some oilite bushings in the kit, 3/8od 1/4ID and about 3/16 long. these
get pressed into the flap braket so that the flange is between the flap brackets.
Fit the flaps to the wing and determine the which side of the hinges
works best for each one and press in to accomadate.
nick
"Colin J. Kennedy" <cjk129@cox.net> wrote:
I installed the bearings in the outboard aileron hinges today.
I am ready to fit up the ailerons in order to fix the outboard hinges to the
wing.
The manual advises to
"4. Temporarily bolt the flaps in place"
however, I cannot find any instructions on how to do this except in Section 16,
Wing Final Assembly and Installation, where it says:
2. Install the Flap, use AN4 drilled bolt of correct length a castle nut and
cotter pin to secure.
The holes in the half hinges on the wing are differently sized that the holes
in the half hinges on the flap, which makes me think that there must be more
pieces to put them together than a simple AN4 driled bolt.
Am I missing something?
Colin K.
OK
http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Upper Rudder Hinge |
Hi all,
I've been lurking on this list for a while now, and although Colin outed me earlier,
I thought I'd finally introduce myself with a question. I'm located in
Southern Illinois (Carbondale) and building Lightning #53 at home in my garage.
My question is how does one bolt the upper rudder hinge to the vertical tail.
I have cut the hole beneath the hinge, but it seems I would have to be E.T. with
magnetic fingers to get the nut and washer on the upper bolts. Then there
is the question of how to get a wrench on the nuts to tighten. I've considered
drilling an access hole in the top of the tail, but wanted to see how others
have solved this problem.
Thanks for any input, and I look forward to participating in the discussions in
the future.
John Eynon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160864#160864
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| Subject: | Re: Upper Rudder Hinge |
Clive just emailed me a description and a very helpful picture to solve my problem.
So I'm giving up training the small squirrel to hold a wrench, and I am off
to the hardware store for tools. Back to the build.
Thanks Clive.
John E.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160909#160909
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| Subject: | Re: Frustrations and progress |
Jim, I have been watching your progress from a far. I think you have made tremendous
progress and am looking forward to reading about your first flight. Perhaps
to put into perspective...thing about all those guys that spend years building
their aircraft. If my memory severs me, you been at it for less than a year.
[quote="pequeajim"]In between work and family, I am finding time to work on my
Lightning. I am at the stage where I am 90% done with 90% to go. During the
build process, I have experienced many periods of happiness and fun separated
by a few times of frustration. This is just like any other project of this type.
Persistence pays off with a great reward when your bird take to the sky for
the first time.
I want to express my thanks to Ryan and the rest at Green Landings for their help
and patience with my project thus far.
Im having a great time and am really close now.
Just the remaining wiring, interior and final assembly to go
Jim!
> [b]
--------
Cherokee driver, but feeling the need for speed!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160944#160944
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| Subject: | Re: Upper Rudder Hinge |
Hi Jeynon,
I'm building #49 in my hangar. I was able to get the nut and washer on
by putting some masking tape tacky side out around my finger and putting
the parts on that taped finger. That worked super! I tied some string
to my wrench and pushed it into the access hole and pulled it up and was
able to get the wrench on as well. Hopes this helps. Bill in Tucson.
jeynon wrote:
>
>Clive just emailed me a description and a very helpful picture to solve my problem.
So I'm giving up training the small squirrel to hold a wrench, and I am
off to the hardware store for tools. Back to the build.
>
>Thanks Clive.
>
>John E.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160909#160909
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Gear leg shimmy experiments |
Hi Buz
I enjoyed reading your email regarding the wheel shimmy.? My lightning was finished
in Shelbyville in September and had shimmy on some of the taxi and landing.
After I flew back to Florida and have logged 40 hours on the airplane the right
gear seems to be the one that shimmy.?As of last week it had become almost
violent.? I hose clamped a hardwood dowel on the right gear leg and there was
no apparent improvement.? At this point I removed the wheel point as I felt
the weight of the wheel pant might be contributing to the oscillation/shimmy.?
However, this had no effect on the problem.
I spoke to Nick last Thursday and he said that some lightning owners had replaced
the Air null tires with a better tire.?Jacking up and taking the weight off
the tire I found the right tire had a obvious hump and was out of round. I checked
with the aircraft maintenance facility at my airport and he had some tires
distributed by Michelin which he said that he had real good results.? The Air
null tires are 4 ply and the new tires are 6 ply with a higher load rating.?I
bought two and replaced both main tires and I did a lot of high speed taxis
and lifted the nose and ran on the mains only.? I could aggravate it and cause
it to shimmy at that point I was running 32 lbs pressure, I reduced the tire
pressure to 28 lbs and went back out for multiple runs and the shimmy has stopped.?
However,?the? disc and the brake assembly are not a precision unit,? therefore
you can assume it is going to grab on the rotation differently as the
wheel turns and heavy braking pressure is applied.? I
t will and can cause the gear leg to shimmy occasionally.? After 40 hours on the
Air null tires most of the wear on the tread was on only 25 percent of the
outer side of the tire.? Most of the times these airplanes are flown at less than
gross weight and I think the fact that tire foot print on the ground is only
25 percent more tire area on the ground would be better..?I would think that
some of the camber could be taken out when the axle brackets are welded and
this would give us a bigger foot print more toward the middle of the tire. As
we all know many aircraft have similar problems.? I certainly enjoyed seeing you
at the open house last year.
?Jim Goad
N166JG
jng62433@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 12:51 am
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Gear leg shimmy experiments
Hi Johnny,
????Certainly mounting?aircraft quality tires on the rims in the correct way is
important for balance.? Some people don't?seem to?know what the paint spot on
the tire is for.? But you will have to wait for Nick to answer your question
about how many null have had shimmy.? I think he is still away from null and may
even be in Arizona to make the initial flight on several null out that way.?
The shimmy situation has to do with the round rod gear leg (null I think initially
identified the problem)? and it varies from airplane to airplane, and seems
to have something to do with toe, tire pressure, aircraft weight, speed,
landing/taxi surface, and how? you are holding your tongue.? It does not occur
on grass, and only happens at the slower speeds, say around 20 to 22 mph.? And
it does not happen on every landing (could be the tongue holding thing).? On
my airplane it happens on most every landing roll out (22 mph) and is worse when
the airplane is light weight with higher tire pre
ssure and on black top.? Not quite as bad on one concrete runway I often land
on.? You will know it when it happens and if you have someone watching you they
will see it as well.? Don't confuse this with the possible nose gear shimmy
that is caused by the null nose wheel being too loose in the bracket that holds
it on.?? Just tighten the 8 nuts/bolts a little so there is some "feel of tightness"
when you have the weight off the nose and turn the nose wheel from side
to side (the nose wheel is in the air for this test with someone pushing down
on the tail of the airplane).
????As to spin balancing an aircraft tire, I have never done that for any of the
6 airplanes I have owned?but it could not hurt.? My experience in other airplanes
that weigh about what a Lightning or Esqual does?(my single seat Pitts)
was that I never got any shimmy (no round rod gear leg), but tire pressure certainly
made a difference as to how hard it was to keep straight on landing roll
out- lower pressure was easier.?Of course the Pitts touched down much faster
than a Lightning or Esqual.? Bottom line,? all the things we mentioned above
will help or hinder the tendency to shimmy.? The key seems to be get the toe right
(not sure what right is at this point), make sure you have the tires mounted
properly on the rims, start with no more than about 25 psi in the mains, stiffen
the gear leg by some method as discussed before, and hold your tongue just
right.?
????Good luck on that first flight.? Let us know how it goes.
Blue Skies and check six,
Buz
?
My questions:
How many have or had?a problem with leg shimmy?
Has anyone spin balanced the tires and did you have a shimmy problem before or
after the balance?
What is the weight (heavy/light) of the aircraft when it is most prone to shimmy?
Thanks
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
________________________________________________________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | Builders - Outboard Aileron Hinge |
Thanks Nick! I have found the bushings and am fitting them.
I am thinking that I should position the flaps so that the inboard end
is as
close as possible to, but not further inboard than the inboard end of
the
wing. That puts all my bearing flanges and and flap brackets on the
outboard
side of the brackets secured to the wings.
Colin K.
OK
http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nick
otterback
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Builders - Outboard Aileron Hinge
colin,
There are some oilite bushings in the kit, 3/8od 1/4ID and about 3/16
long.
these get pressed into the flap braket so that the flange is between the
flap brackets. Fit the flaps to the wing and determine the which side of
the
hinges works best for each one and press in to accomadate.
nick
"Colin J. Kennedy" <cjk129@cox.net> wrote:
I installed the bearings in the outboard aileron hinges today.
I am ready to fit up the ailerons in order to fix the outboard hinges to
the
wing.
The manual advises to
"4. Temporarily bolt the flaps in place"
however, I cannot find any instructions on how to do this except in
Section
16, Wing Final Assembly and Installation, where it says:
2. Install the Flap, use AN4 drilled bolt of correct length a castle
nut and cotter pin to secure.
The holes in the half hinges on the wing are differently sized that the
holes in the half hinges on the flap, which makes me think that there
must
be more pieces to put them together than a simple AN4 driled bolt.
Am I missing
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Frustrations and progress |
Thanks... I guess six months is not too bad. Overall, I really have enjoyed the
experience and like most RC modelers turned full scale, will not be able to
stop at just one.
(grin)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rickss
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 8:02 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Frustrations and progress
Jim, I have been watching your progress from a far. I think you have made tremendous
progress and am looking forward to reading about your first flight. Perhaps
to put into perspective...thing about all those guys that spend years building
their aircraft. If my memory severs me, you been at it for less than a year.
[quote="pequeajim"]In between work and family, I am finding time to work on my
Lightning. I am at the stage where I am 90% done with 90% to go. During the
build process, I have experienced many periods of happiness and fun separated
by a few times of frustration. This is just like any other project of this type.
Persistence pays off with a great reward when your bird take to the sky for
the first time.
I want to express my thanks to Ryan and the rest at Green Landings for their help
and patience with my project thus far.
Im having a great time and am really close now.
Just the remaining wiring, interior and final assembly to go
Jim!
> [b]
--------
Cherokee driver, but feeling the need for speed!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160944#160944
Message 10
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| Subject: | Gear leg shimmy experiments |
Jim & Buz:
I wonder if the aircraft sitting in the shop in one place for an extended
period of time, (while in the build process), would cause one or both of the
tires to go out of round?
Jim!
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jng62433@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Gear leg shimmy experiments
Hi Buz
I enjoyed reading your email regarding the wheel shimmy. My lightning was
finished in Shelbyville in September and had shimmy on some of the taxi and
landing. After I flew back to Florida and have logged 40 hours on the
airplane the right gear seems to be the one that shimmy. As of last week it
had become almost violent. I hose clamped a hardwood dowel on the right
gear leg and there was no apparent improvement. At this point I removed the
wheel point as I felt the weight of the wheel pant might be contributing to
the oscillation/shimmy. However, this had no effect on the problem.
I spoke to Nick last Thursday and he said that some lightning owners had
replaced the Air null tires with a better tire. Jacking up and taking the
weight off the tire I found the right tire had a obvious hump and was out of
round. I checked with the aircraft maintenance facility at my airport and he
had some tires distributed by Michelin which he said that he had real good
results. The Air null tires are 4 ply and the new tires are 6 ply with a
higher load rating. I bought two and replaced both main tires and I did a
lot of high speed taxis and lifted the nose and ran on the mains only. I
could aggravate it and cause it to shimmy at that point I was running 32 lbs
pressure, I reduced the tire pressure to 28 lbs and went back out for
multiple runs and the shimmy has stopped. However,&nb sp;the disc and the
brake assembly are not a precision unit, therefore you can assume it is
going to grab on the rotation differently as the wheel turns and heavy
braking pressure is applied. It will and can cause the gear leg to shimmy
occasionally. After 40 hours on the Air null tires most of the wear on the
tread was on only 25 percent of the outer side of the tire. Most of the
times these airplanes are flown at less than gross weight and I think the
fact that tire foot print on the ground is only 25 percent more tire area on
the ground would be better.. I would think that some of the camber could be
taken out when the axle brackets are welded and this would give us a bigger
foot print more toward the middle of the tire. As we all know many aircraft
have similar problems. I certainly enjoyed seeing you at the open house
last year.
Jim Goad
N166JG
jng62433@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 12:51 am
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Gear leg shimmy experiments
Hi Johnny,
Certainly mounting aircraft quality tires on the rims in the correct way
is important for balance. Some people don't seem to know what the paint
spot on the tire is for. But you will have to wait for Nick to answer your
question about how many null have had shimmy. I think he is still away from
null and may even be in Arizona to make the initial flight on several null
out that way. The shimmy situation has to do with the round rod gear leg
(null I think initially identified the problem) and it varies from airplane
to airplane, and seems to have something to do with toe, tire pressure,
aircraft weight, speed, landing/taxi surface, and h ow you are holding your
tongue. It does not occur on grass, and only happens at the slower speeds,
say around 20 to 22 mph. And it does not happen on every landing (could be
the tongue holding thing). On my airplane it happens on most every landing
roll out (22 mph) and is worse when the airplane is light weight with higher
tire pressure and on black top. Not quite as bad on one concrete runway I
often land on. You will know it when it happens and if you have someone
watching you they will see it as well. Don't confuse this with the possible
nose gear shimmy that is caused by the null nose wheel being too loose in
the bracket that holds it on. Just tighten the 8 nuts/bolts a little so
there is some "feel of tightness" when you have the weight off the nose and
turn the nose wheel from side to side (the nose wheel is in the air for this
test with so m eone pushing down on the tail of the airplane).
As to spin balancing an aircraft tire, I have never done that for any of
the 6 airplanes I have owned but it could not hurt. My experience in other
airplanes that weigh about what a Lightning or Esqual does (my single seat
Pitts) was that I never got any shimmy (no round rod gear leg), but tire
pressure certainly made a difference as to how hard it was to keep straight
on landing roll out- lower pressure was easier. Of course the Pitts touched
down much faster than a Lightning or Esqual. Bottom line, all the things
we mentioned above will help or hinder the tendency to shimmy. The key
seems to be get the toe right (not sure what right is at this point), make
sure you have the tires mounted properly on the rims, start with no more
than about 25 psi in the mains, stiffen the gear leg by some method as
discussed before, and hold your tongue just right.
Good luck on that first flight. Let us know how it goes.
Blue Skies and check six,
Buz
My questions:
How many have or had a problem with leg shimmy?
Has anyone spin balanced the tires and did you have a shimmy problem before
or after the balance?
What is the weight (heavy/light) of the aircraft when it is most prone to
shimmy?
Thanks
_____
Start the year off right. Easy
<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>
ways to stay in shape in the new year.
_____
size=2 width="100%" align=center>
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=ao
lcmp00050000000003> !
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Gear leg shimmy experiments |
Hi Jim,
Good to hear from you. I think one of the high points of the first
Lightning open house what seeing your airplane make the initial flight. You did
a fantastic job on your beautiful airplane and I really like your paint
scheme. I wonder why?
I think your analysis of the gear leg shimmy on your airplane is right
on target. Of all the things that effect shimmy, I think I mentioned all of
them in previous messages with the exception of camber. I totally forgot to
mention that aspect of the "equation", but as you said, camber certainly has
an effect on how much tire tread is in contact with the runway/ramp. I am
glad to hear that changing to a "better" quality tire which probably has a
better "grip" helped your situation. Nick and I had previously discussed that,
and the success he had with the demo Lightning by going to better tires. I
will likely go to Michelins or Goodyears when I change tires next time. My
current Air Tracks have 417.1 hours on them and I just reversed the wheels to
balance out the tire wear, so I should get another 100 to 200 more hours on
them.
The shimmy experiments we did on Linda's Lightning using the aluminum
"V" angle clamped to the trailing edge of the gear legs certainly seemed to
help (she is still testing them out), but in reality what we probably did was
to
change the stiffness of the gear leg and therefore only change the speed at
which it might occur. Hopefully the change will work for the speeds that the
Lightning sees on normal landings. However, with the clamps holding on the
aluminum "stiffner" it will be very hard to get the gear leg fairings on, so
this is probably not the ideal answer. The wooden dowels like you tried seem
to work only if they are "robust" enough to stiffen the gear legs the proper
amount, and of course the same fairing problem arises if you clamp them on.
So bottom line, if your success with changing to "better" tires works
well on your airplane it will likely work for other Lightnings as well.
Therefore, you have come up with a great course of action in my book. I am sure
all others on this group appreciate you sharing this. It is good to know that
someone else other than the demo has had success with using better quality
tires. You might want to let the group know the specific Michelin you used.
I
know they are 500x5, 6 ply, but is there a specific model number or name?
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 12
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Well, after denying that I had the dreaded wheel shimmy, I have to admit
that I do. I've never noticed it during T/Os and landings, but Linda's comment
that it occurred during taxi did it. Starts at 22K up through about 24, maybe
25. Knots, not mph. N17EF is light sport, no gear clean up or spats. Main
tires are relatively new Goodyear Flight Custom III. Tire pressures 31psi+/-.
Taxiways have all been concrete.
I've flown over 150 hrs in the last 12 months, and didn't notice it until
the weather turned cold. Could that be a factor, or am I just a klutz.
Earl
Atlanta
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Gear leg shimmy experiments |
In a message dated 1/28/2008 9:06:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pequeajim@gmail.com writes:
I wonder if the aircraft sitting in the shop in one place for an extended
period of time, (while in the build process), would cause one or both of the
tires to go out of round?
Hi Jim,
I am sure you are right on, but it does not take that much time for an
aviation tire to go out of round. Just a day or two will do it, especially
when it is colder. Since the aircraft tires that we use are generally not
"radial", they develop a flat spot pretty quickly, but, by the time you taxi to
the runway, the heat generated will have them back to round. I think I am
still right that the aircraft tires we use are bias tires (not radial) because
the cost do develop radial tires for smaller general aviation would not be
cost effective for the big tire makers. Probably commercial aircraft,
airliners etc, have radials, but they also have different wheels. As far as I
know
you are not supposed to put radial tires on aircraft wheels designed for bias
tires, and vise versa.
While we are talking tires and mounting them, I hope everyone knows that
if your tube has a yellow stripe on it, you should line up the yellow strip
on the tube with the red dot on the tire when you mount it. If the tube does
not have a yellow stripe, then line of the red dot on the tire with the
inflation valve on the tube. If you don't do the above, your assembly will not
be balanced.
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Wheek shimmy |
HI Earl,
Great to hear from you again. One suggestion - Lower your tire pressure
to 25psi to 28psi max. That alone will help the shimmy situation.
Buz
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
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| Subject: | Bent spanner picture, for rudder elevator and aileron |
bolting
<<P1050884.JPG>>
And a load of other things since as well, Regards, Clive
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| Subject: | Bent spanner picture, for rudder elevator and aileron |
bolting
<<P1050884.JPG>>
And a load of other things since as well, Regards, Clive
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