Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:12 PM - Gear legs (jeynon)
2. 04:26 PM - Re: Lightning marketing (Charles Dewey)
3. 07:58 PM - The Lightning Builder's Manual (Sales Email Account)
4. 08:29 PM - Re: The Lightning Builder's Manual (Brian Whittingham)
5. 08:51 PM - Longer Wing (Charles Dewey)
6. 10:03 PM - Re: Longer Wing (Brian Whittingham)
7. 10:52 PM - Re: Gear legs (Steven Sundquist)
Message 1
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Is there some trick to inserting the gear legs into the spar box. I've sanded
the paint out of the tube, and loosened the nuts holding the spar box to the fuselage.
I've also done some sanding on the gear leg. I can get it about halfway
in with some difficulty, and back out with more difficulty. I assume the
answer is keep sanding the gear leg until it goes in, but I thought I'd check
here first.
Thanks.
John Eynon
Lightning #53
Carbondale, Illinois
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162096#162096
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning marketing |
HOW CAN WE BETTER GET THE WORD OUT ON THE LIGHTNING?
THE AUTOMATIVE INDUSTRY IS GEARING TOWARD SMALLER,
MORE FUEL-EFFICIENT VEHICLES. THE GENERAL AV INDUSTRY
NEEDS MORE LIGHTNINGS AND LESS CESSNA AND CIRRUS GAS
HOGS!
--- nick otterback <vettin74@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The pharse, in this case most likley is describing
> the install of the firewall to the flange on the
> fuselage and in this case is correct to state of the
> correct length. A fiberglass surface although made
> up of the same layers of glass may not be the same
> thickness every time, therefore to give a certain
> bolt length would be hinderent against safty if a -4
> were to be used but a -5 was needed you most likley
> would not have any threads showing on your bolt and
> this would be not so good. Determining bolt length
> in metal however is easy. The other possibility is
> that it may be in an early section of the manual
> that our "staff" has not gotten to revising yet and
> will as time permits. We do appericate the input of
> lacking hardware and do our best to update the kit
> when notified. If the kit is lacking let us know of
> your need and we can get these out most of the time
> in the same day. We have revised parts in the kit to
> make fit and finish better, the cahnges have
> apparently not
> filtered to the manual or the hardware kit and can
> be easily rectified. The decoder ring for the hidden
> phrases is available from you local dealer..it is an
> option.
>
> Nick Otterback
> Arion Aircraft
>
> Sales Email Account <sales@billandruth.net> wrote:
> Hi all you hard working Lightning builders (and
> flyers!),
>
> I have determined that there is at least one special
> code phrase that is quite prevalent in the builders
> "manual." That phrase goes like this:
>
> "...and insert an AN3 (or 4 or 5) of appropriate
> length."
>
> It has taken me a while to figure what this special
> code phrase really means but, now I have translated
> that innocent phrase into its true meaning, which
> is:
>
> "...and insert an AN3 (or 4 or 5) that is not in the
> hardware that came with your kit."
>
>
> Perhaps you have found other special code phrases of
> your own in the Lightning manual and have figured
> out their true meaning as well. If so, please pass
> them on so others can benefit and maybe get a
> chuckle or two also.
>
>
> Bill in Tucson, kit #49 currently installing
> elevator push-pull tube and hoping to start on the
> canopy tomorrow.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with
> Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 3
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| Subject: | The Lightning Builder's Manual |
Hi one and all,
First, I want to say that at least one at Arion got the humor in the
"secret code phrase" post regarding the builder's manual. That's a good
thing. However, this kit still lacks a concerted effort to get the
manual up to par with the rest of the kit building providers out there.
The company's emphasis on builder's assistance in the kit build process
takes much of the fuss out of the build and that is just fine. However,
not everyone can afford that route. Those of us who want to build or
who must build on our own, don't have the benefit of the accumulated
experience the builder assist program provides. The manual and tech
support phone calls are our only recourse. I called Arion about an
elevator control horn install question on Friday and there was not a
single person available because they all were in an engine clinic. So,
a wasted building weekend was the result.
If the Lightning is to be a real success with the kit building
community, a quality builder's manual has to be produced and soon.
Otherwise, problems in the build process could very well start to become
a theme that will negatively impact sales. I know that the company
wants to place a higher priority on getting this done. I've been told
that several times. But, lip service does not produce results.
Commitment to the builder/buyer does and it helps everyone! The stand
alone builder will eventually dominate the build process, in my view,
and more Lightning sales will result because of that fact.
Consequently, he/she deserves much more consideration and respect than
is being provided right now.
I know that many of you on the "list" will find this to be a very harsh
criticism of Arion. I am sorry that I may have offended you and them,
if that is the case. However, I believe that this kit has got the
potential to take a big chunk out of Van's market share. There is a
builder two hangars down building an RV-7A and all he says when I
discuss a building issue with him is you don't have plans and therefore
you need a really good builder's manual. I don't have an adequate
response to that comment.
If the Lightning is going to really catch on with those who have
considered Van's kits, the manual will need to be a much better product.
I highly encourage every stand alone builder to contact Arion and
communicate every single manual deficiency you have encountered in the
build process and what you had to do to resolve the problem/s
encountered so far.
I look forward to the day when sixty Lighnings will arrive in mass at
Air Venture and give Van's "Air Force" a real run for their money. That
day will come much sooner when everyone has access to a top-notch
builder's manual.
Enough with the soap box, Bill with kit #49 in mid sixties weather in
Tucson still working on the elevator control horn install (Did you know
there are no rudder stops to limit rudder motion?) :-)
Message 4
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| Subject: | The Lightning Builder's Manual |
Quote "Did you know there are no rudder stops to limit rudder motion?" end
quote
There are rudder stops. That's what the bulge on the rudder with the flat
edge does. I can't remember if it touches on the horizontal or on the vert
ical tail assembly, but when it's all together I gaurantee there's a limit
to rudder travel.
As far as the rest goes, I'm sure that you're right, that one day that most
Lightning's will have to be built at home. At some point in the growth pr
ocess that will have to be the case as it's just not feasable to have enoug
h space and build assisstants for a huge scale operation. I know that the
current build manuals were a lot to do with building the prototype and ther
efore there are some differences, but I'm willing to bet that Nick and Mark
et al will constantly be revising this document. The plane itself is goin
g through many changes. Small things such as an updated and improved cano
py latch system to much bigger changes like a new and longer wing. At some
point it will be more smaller than larger changes being made and will make
keeping up with a build manual much easier.
One thing that I would suggest would be to make the build manual available
online and all updates to be saved online at the same time that they are sa
ved to the PC. This way the users at home can download Revision XXX dated
MM/DD/YYYY and know that they have the latest and greatest, even if the kit
takes them a year or more to build. Having the Operating Manual online wo
uld probably be nice too since a lot of people want a peek at operating pro
cedures and testing data. I know that it's all easier said than done, but
I think would make for a user-friendly company. There's still things that
folks will find or confuse I'm sure, but perhaps a good thing to try. Bria
n W.
@yahoo.com; mark.stauffer1@gmail.comSubject: Lightning-List: The Lightning
Builder's Manual
Hi one and all,First, I want to say that at least one at Arion got the humo
r in the "secret code phrase" post regarding the builder's manual. That's
a good thing. However, this kit still lacks a concerted effort to get the
manual up to par with the rest of the kit building providers out there. Th
e company's emphasis on builder's assistance in the kit build process takes
much of the fuss out of the build and that is just fine. However, not eve
ryone can afford that route. Those of us who want to build or who must bui
ld on our own, don't have the benefit of the accumulated experience the bui
lder assist program provides. The manual and tech support phone calls are
our only recourse. I called Arion about an elevator control horn install q
uestion on Friday and there was not a single person available because they
all were in an engine clinic. So, a wasted building weekend was the result
.If the Lightning is to be a real success with the kit building community,
a quality builder's manual has to be produced and soon. Otherwise, problem
s in the build process could very well start to become a theme that will ne
gatively impact sales. I know that the company wants to place a higher pri
ority on getting this done. I've been told that several times. But, lip
service does not produce results. Commitment to the builder/buyer does and
it helps everyone! The stand alone builder will eventually dominate the b
uild process, in my view, and more Lightning sales will result because of t
hat fact. Consequently, he/she deserves much more consideration and respec
t than is being provided right now.I know that many of you on the "list" wi
ll find this to be a very harsh criticism of Arion. I am sorry that I may
have offended you and them, if that is the case. However, I believe that t
his kit has got the potential to take a big chunk out of Van's market share
. There is a builder two hangars down building an RV-7A and all he says wh
en I discuss a building issue with him is you don't have plans and therefor
e you need a really good builder's manual. I don't have an adequate respon
se to that comment.If the Lightning is going to really catch on with those
who have considered Van's kits, the manual will need to be a much better pr
oduct.I highly encourage every stand alone builder to contact Arion and com
municate every single manual deficiency you have encountered in the build p
rocess and what you had to do to resolve the problem/s encountered so far.I
look forward to the day when sixty Lighnings will arrive in mass at Air Ve
nture and give Van's "Air Force" a real run for their money. That day will
come much sooner when everyone has access to a top-notch builder's manual.
Enough with the soap box, Bill with kit #49 in mid sixties weather in Tucso
n still working on the elevator control horn install (Did you know there a
re no rudder stops to limit rudder motion?) :-)
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!-Play the word scramble challenge with sta
r power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_ja
n
Message 5
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Brian- Why would they be doing a longer wing?
CD
--- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Quote "Did you know there are no rudder stops to
> limit rudder motion?" end quote
>
> There are rudder stops. That's what the bulge on
> the rudder with the flat edge does. I can't
> remember if it touches on the horizontal or on the
> vertical tail assembly, but when it's all together I
> gaurantee there's a limit to rudder travel.
>
> As far as the rest goes, I'm sure that you're right,
> that one day that most Lightning's will have to be
> built at home. At some point in the growth process
> that will have to be the case as it's just not
> feasable to have enough space and build assisstants
> for a huge scale operation. I know that the current
> build manuals were a lot to do with building the
> prototype and therefore there are some differences,
> but I'm willing to bet that Nick and Mark et al will
> constantly be revising this document. The plane
> itself is going through many changes. Small things
> such as an updated and improved canopy latch system
> to much bigger changes like a new and longer wing.
> At some point it will be more smaller than larger
> changes being made and will make keeping up with a
> build manual much easier.
>
> One thing that I would suggest would be to make the
> build manual available online and all updates to be
> saved online at the same time that they are saved to
> the PC. This way the users at home can download
> Revision XXX dated MM/DD/YYYY and know that they
> have the latest and greatest, even if the kit takes
> them a year or more to build. Having the Operating
> Manual online would probably be nice too since a lot
> of people want a peek at operating procedures and
> testing data. I know that it's all easier said than
> done, but I think would make for a user-friendly
> company. There's still things that folks will find
> or confuse I'm sure, but perhaps a good thing to
> try. Brian W.
>
>
>
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 20:55:37 -0700From:
> sales@billandruth.netTo: vettin74@yahoo.com;
> mark.stauffer1@gmail.comSubject: Lightning-List: The
> Lightning Builder's Manual
> Hi one and all,First, I want to say that at least
> one at Arion got the humor in the "secret code
> phrase" post regarding the builder's manual. That's
> a good thing. However, this kit still lacks a
> concerted effort to get the manual up to par with
> the rest of the kit building providers out there.
> The company's emphasis on builder's assistance in
> the kit build process takes much of the fuss out of
> the build and that is just fine. However, not
> everyone can afford that route. Those of us who
> want to build or who must build on our own, don't
> have the benefit of the accumulated experience the
> builder assist program provides. The manual and
> tech support phone calls are our only recourse. I
> called Arion about an elevator control horn install
> question on Friday and there was not a single person
> available because they all were in an engine clinic.
> So, a wasted building weekend was the result.If the
> Lightning is to be a real success with the kit
> building community, a quality builder's manual has
> to be produced and soon. Otherwise, problems in the
> build process could very well start to become a
> theme that will negatively impact sales. I know
> that the company wants to place a higher priority on
> getting this done. I've been told that several
> times. But, lip service does not produce results.
> Commitment to the builder/buyer does and it helps
> everyone! The stand alone builder will eventually
> dominate the build process, in my view, and more
> Lightning sales will result because of that fact.
> Consequently, he/she deserves much more
> consideration and respect than is being provided
> right now.I know that many of you on the "list" will
> find this to be a very harsh criticism of Arion. I
> am sorry that I may have offended you and them, if
> that is the case. However, I believe that this kit
> has got the potential to take a big chunk out of
> Van's market share. There is a builder two hangars
> down building an RV-7A and all he says when I
> discuss a building issue with him is you don't have
> plans and therefore you need a really good builder's
> manual. I don't have an adequate response to that
> comment.If the Lightning is going to really catch on
> with those who have considered Van's kits, the
> manual will need to be a much better product.I
> highly encourage every stand alone builder to
> contact Arion and communicate every single manual
> deficiency you have encountered in the build process
> and what you had to do to resolve the problem/s
> encountered so far.I look forward to the day when
> sixty Lighnings will arrive in mass at Air Venture
> and give Van's "Air Force" a real run for their
> money. That day will come much sooner when everyone
> has access to a top-notch builder's manual.Enough
> with the soap box, Bill with kit #49 in mid sixties
> weather in Tucson still working on the elevator
> control horn install (Did you know there are no
> rudder stops to limit rudder motion?) :-)
>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Climb to the top of the charts!Play the word
> scramble challenge with star power.
>
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 6
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Charles,
They made an announcement, around Christmas time I believe that they will
be doing a longer winged version of the Lightning. The results will be a
smoother cross country ride, an ability for the sport model to come in at a
n even slower stalling speed, and a longer wing means larger ailerons, whic
h means an even better roll rate. (which it'll need more aileron to get th
e same rate with the longer wing) From what I understand, the wing end cap
s, for those who didn't glass them on will be able to get just the new tips
and new ailerons and do an "upgrade" to their plane after the fact. Prett
y cool. Brian W.> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 20:48:57 -0800> From: cdewey6969@y
ahoo.com> Subject: Lightning-List: Longer Wing> To: lightning-list@matronic
hoo.com>> > Brian- Why would they be doing a longer wing?> CD> > > > > ---
Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com> wrote:> > > > > > > Quote "Did you
know there are no rudder stops to> > limit rudder motion?" end quote > > >
> There are rudder stops. That's what the bulge on> > the rudder with the f
lat edge does. I can't> > remember if it touches on the horizontal or on th
e> > vertical tail assembly, but when it's all together I> > gaurantee ther
e's a limit to rudder travel. > > > > As far as the rest goes, I'm sure tha
t you're right,> > that one day that most Lightning's will have to be> > bu
ilt at home. At some point in the growth process> > that will have to be th
e case as it's just not> > feasable to have enough space and build assissta
nts> > for a huge scale operation. I know that the current> > build manuals
were a lot to do with building the> > prototype and therefore there are so
me differences,> > but I'm willing to bet that Nick and Mark et al will> >
constantly be revising this document. The plane> > itself is going through
many changes. Small things> > such as an updated and improved canopy latch
system> > to much bigger changes like a new and longer wing. > > At some po
int it will be more smaller than larger> > changes being made and will make
keeping up with a> > build manual much easier.> > > > One thing that I wou
ld suggest would be to make the> > build manual available online and all up
dates to be> > saved online at the same time that they are saved to> > the
PC. This way the users at home can download> > Revision XXX dated MM/DD/YYY
Y and know that they> > have the latest and greatest, even if the kit takes
> > them a year or more to build. Having the Operating> > Manual online wou
ld probably be nice too since a lot> > of people want a peek at operating p
rocedures and> > testing data. I know that it's all easier said than> > don
e, but I think would make for a user-friendly> > company. There's still thi
ngs that folks will find> > or confuse I'm sure, but perhaps a good thing t
o> > try. Brian W.> > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 20:55:37 -0700From:
> > sales@billandruth.netTo: vettin74@yahoo.com;> > mark.stauffer1@gmail.co
mSubject: Lightning-List: The> > Lightning Builder's Manual > > Hi one and
all,First, I want to say that at least> > one at Arion got the humor in the
"secret code> > phrase" post regarding the builder's manual. That's> > a g
ood thing. However, this kit still lacks a> > concerted effort to get the m
anual up to par with> > the rest of the kit building providers out there. >
> The company's emphasis on builder's assistance in> > the kit build proce
ss takes much of the fuss out of> > the build and that is just fine. Howeve
r, not> > everyone can afford that route. Those of us who> > want to build
or who must build on our own, don't> > have the benefit of the accumulated
experience the> > builder assist program provides. The manual and> > tech s
upport phone calls are our only recourse. I> > called Arion about an elevat
or control horn install> > question on Friday and there was not a single pe
rson> > available because they all were in an engine clinic.> > So, a waste
d building weekend was the result.If the> > Lightning is to be a real succe
ss with the kit> > building community, a quality builder's manual has> > to
be produced and soon. Otherwise, problems in the> > build process could ve
ry well start to become a> > theme that will negatively impact sales. I kno
w> > that the company wants to place a higher priority on> > getting this d
one. I've been told that several> > times. But, lip service does not produc
e results. > > Commitment to the builder/buyer does and it helps> > everyon
e! The stand alone builder will eventually> > dominate the build process, i
n my view, and more> > Lightning sales will result because of that fact. >
> Consequently, he/she deserves much more> > consideration and respect than
is being provided> > right now.I know that many of you on the "list" will>
> find this to be a very harsh criticism of Arion. I> > am sorry that I ma
y have offended you and them, if> > that is the case. However, I believe th
at this kit> > has got the potential to take a big chunk out of> > Van's ma
rket share. There is a builder two hangars> > down building an RV-7A and al
l he says when I> > discuss a building issue with him is you don't have> >
plans and therefore you need a really good builder's> > manual. I don't hav
e an adequate response to that> > comment.If the Lightning is going to real
ly catch on> > with those who have considered Van's kits, the> > manual wil
l need to be a much better product.I> > highly encourage every stand alone
builder to> > contact Arion and communicate every single manual> > deficien
cy you have encountered in the build process> > and what you had to do to r
esolve the problem/s> > encountered so far.I look forward to the day when>
> sixty Lighnings will arrive in mass at Air Venture> > and give Van's "Air
Force" a real run for their> > money. That day will come much sooner when
everyone> > has access to a top-notch builder's manual.Enough> > with the s
oap box, Bill with kit #49 in mid sixties> > weather in Tucson still workin
g on the elevator> > control horn install (Did you know there are no> > rud
der stops to limit rudder motion?) :-) > > > > > > > >> ___________________
______________________________________________> > Climb to the top of the c
harts! Play the word> > scramble challenge with star power.> >> http://club
.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan> > > > Be
a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it n
==> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0120
08
Message 7
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John,
I feel your pain. I spent a lot of time doing just as you have done. I
found that the slightest bump that you can hardly feel in the spar box
socket will bind up the legs. If you use some fine sand paper on the legs
to smooth them up and then insert them, the bumps will leave a mark on the
gear leg when you try to insert them again and then pull them out. Then you
can locate the bump and go after it. Also you need to keep sanding the gear
legs down. When you get close you can put some lubricant on the leg and it
will slide in fairly easily. Mark at Arion told me they use a moly lube on
them. You have to be able to turn the legs in the spar box socket when you
do your wheel alignment. I'm no expert. What I outlined here is what
worked for me.
Steve
Kit #48
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeynon
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 4:09 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Gear legs
Is there some trick to inserting the gear legs into the spar box. I've
sanded the paint out of the tube, and loosened the nuts holding the spar box
to the fuselage. I've also done some sanding on the gear leg. I can get it
about halfway in with some difficulty, and back out with more difficulty. I
assume the answer is keep sanding the gear leg until it goes in, but I
thought I'd check here first.
Thanks.
John Eynon
Lightning #53
Carbondale, Illinois
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162096#162096
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