Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:51 AM - Re: Lightning Weight and Balance (Wayne Patterson)
2. 01:04 AM - Re: Lightning Weight and Balance (Brian Whittingham)
3. 02:05 AM - Lightning Pics (Brian Whittingham)
4. 03:45 AM - Re: Lightning Weight and Balance (Wayne Patterson)
5. 04:38 AM - Re: Lightning Weight and Balance (Brian Whittingham)
6. 05:12 PM - Lightning Vs Long-EZ? (Benjamin Smith)
7. 06:34 PM - Re: Lightning Vs Long-EZ? (Charles Dewey)
8. 10:53 PM - Re: Lightning Vs Long-EZ? (Laurie Hoffman)
9. 11:07 PM - Have you got the Clap? (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
10. 11:15 PM - Re: Lightning Vs Long-EZ? (Brian Whittingham)
11. 11:34 PM - Re: Have you got the Clap? (Brian Whittingham)
12. 11:40 PM - Re: Lightning Weight and Balance (Brian Whittingham)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Lightning Weight and Balance |
Hi Tom & Al
Would it be possible for you to email me a higher quality photo of your
aircraft in flight (Arion Intro Page) and taxying. I have just ordered
my kit and I'd like to print larger copies to pin up on my office wall
to keep me going!
Regards & thanks
Wayne Patterson
Perth Australia
wayne@lpwa.net
________________________________
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Whittingham
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:08 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning Weight and Balance
In the past there have been requests for weight and balance data
for the Lightning. Keep in mind that this is an
experimental and therefore your aircraft will depend on what you
put into it. I typed up a weight and balance from the
demonstrator. I know that this will get out of order when I put
it in an email, but if you want the info it shouldn't be too hard to
figure out how to get it spaced back out right. It should give
you an idea of how much you can carry and where you can carry it
Brian W.
Aircraft Type: Arion Lightning
N Number: N323AL
Serial Number: #0029
Reference Datum: Firewall
Level Point: Across cockpit top
rail longitudinally, and across cockpit
Forward Limit: 26.5"
Aft Limit: 36.5"
Initial Weight and Balance
Weight (lbs.) Arm
(in.) Moment (in.lbs.)
Front 199
-14.75 -2935.25
Left 295
42.25 12463.75
Right 301 42.25
12717.75
Total 795
22245.75
C.G.
27.9820755
Baggage Capacity 50lbs. max
Empty Aircraft: Unuseable Fuel and Operating fluids
Weight
Moment (in.lbs.)
Empty Weight 795
22245.75
Center of Gravity 27.9820755
Forward C.G. (with 205lb. pilot and 6 gallons of useable fuel)
Weight (lbs.) Arm (in.) Moment (in.lbs.)
Empty Weight 795
27.9820755 22245.75
Pilot & Passenger 205 44.1
9040.5
Fuel 36
37.4 1346.4
Baggage 0 69.76
0
Total 1036
32632.65
C.G.
31.4986969
Aft C.G. at Gross Weight
Weight (lbs.) Arm (in.) Moment (in.lbs.)
Empty Weight 795
27.9820755 22245.75
Pilot & Passenger 448 44.1
19756.80
Fuel 132
37.4 4936.8
Baggage 50 69.76
3488
Total 1425
50427.35
C.G.
35.387614
________________________________
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| Subject: | Lightning Weight and Balance |
Wayne,
I've got a couple, let me find them and I'll send you an email to your p
ersonal addy. I might be the only one up in the U.S. on the board at this
hour. 3a.m. here. What is your conversion to zulu there? Brian W.
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Weight and BalanceDate: Thu, 7 Feb 2
008 17:55:54 +0900From: Wayne@lpwa.netTo: lightning-list@matronics.com
Hi Tom & Al
Would it be possible for you to email me a higher quality photo of your air
craft in flight (Arion Intro Page) and taxying. I have just ordered my kit
and I=92d like to print larger copies to pin up on my office wall to keep
me going!
Regards & thanks
Wayne Patterson
Perth Australia
wayne@lpwa.net
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian WhittinghamSent: Wednesday, Febr
uary 06, 2008 5:08 PMTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Lightning-Lis
t: Lightning Weight and Balance
In the past there have been requests for weight and balance data for the L
ightning. Keep in mind that this is anexperimental and therefore your airc
raft will depend on what you put into it. I typed up a weight and balance
from thedemonstrator. I know that this will get out of order when I put it
in an email, but if you want the info it shouldn't be too hard tofigure ou
t how to get it spaced back out right. It should give you an idea of how m
uch you can carry and where you can carry itBrian W.Aircraft Type:
Arion LightningN Number: N
323ALSerial Number: #0029Reference Datum: Firewall
Level Point: Across cockpit top rail longitud
inally, and across cockpit Forward Limit: 26
.5=94Aft Limit: 36.5=94 Initial Weight an
d Balance Weight (lbs.) Arm (in.
) Moment (in.lbs.)Front 199
-14.75 -2935.25Left 295
42.25 12463.75Right
301 42.25 12717.7
5Total 795
22245.75C.G.
27.9820755 Baggage Capacity 50lbs. max Empty Aircraft: Unuseable F
uel and Operating fluids Weight
Moment (in.lbs.)Empty Weight 795
22245.75Center of Gravity 27.9820755 Forward C.G.
(with 205lb. pilot and 6 gallons of useable fuel)Weight (lbs.)
Arm (in.) Moment (in.lbs.)Empty Weight
795 27.9820755 22245.7
5Pilot & Passenger 205 44.1
9040.5Fuel 3
6 37.4 1346
.4Baggage 0 69.76
0Total 1
036 326
32.65C.G.
31.4986969 Aft C.G. at Gross WeightWeight (lbs.)
Arm (in.) Moment (in.lbs.)Empty Weight 795
27.9820755 22245.75Pilot &
Passenger 448 44.1
19756.80Fuel 132
37.4 4936.8Baggage
50 69.76
3488Total 1425
50427.35C.
G. 3
5.387614
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Wayne,
Ok, sent you 3 high res photos. Hope they went through. It came out to
about 8Mb. of pics that I sent. Let me know if you got them ok. Thanks,
Brian W.
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Weight and BalanceDate: Thu, 7 Feb 2
008 17:55:54 +0900From: Wayne@lpwa.netTo: lightning-list@matronics.com
Hi Tom & Al
Would it be possible for you to email me a higher quality photo of your air
craft in flight (Arion Intro Page) and taxying. I have just ordered my kit
and I=92d like to print larger copies to pin up on my office wall to keep
me going!
Regards & thanks
Wayne Patterson
Perth Australia
wayne@lpwa.net
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian WhittinghamSent: Wednesday, Febr
uary 06, 2008 5:08 PMTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Lightning-Lis
t: Lightning Weight and Balance
In the past there have been requests for weight and balance data for the L
ightning. Keep in mind that this is anexperimental and therefore your airc
raft will depend on what you put into it. I typed up a weight and balance
from thedemonstrator. I know that this will get out of order when I put it
in an email, but if you want the info it shouldn't be too hard tofigure ou
t how to get it spaced back out right. It should give you an idea of how m
uch you can carry and where you can carry itBrian W.Aircraft Type:
Arion LightningN Number: N
323ALSerial Number: #0029Reference Datum: Firewall
Level Point: Across cockpit top rail longitud
inally, and across cockpit Forward Limit: 26
.5=94Aft Limit: 36.5=94 Initial Weight an
d Balance Weight (lbs.) Arm (in.
) Moment (in.lbs.)Front 199
-14.75 -2935.25Left 295
42.25 12463.75Right
301 42.25 12717.7
5Total 795
22245.75C.G.
27.9820755 Baggage Capacity 50lbs. max Empty Aircraft: Unuseable F
uel and Operating fluids Weight
Moment (in.lbs.)Empty Weight 795
22245.75Center of Gravity 27.9820755 Forward C.G.
(with 205lb. pilot and 6 gallons of useable fuel)Weight (lbs.)
Arm (in.) Moment (in.lbs.)Empty Weight
795 27.9820755 22245.7
5Pilot & Passenger 205 44.1
9040.5Fuel 3
6 37.4 1346
.4Baggage 0 69.76
0Total 1
036 326
32.65C.G.
31.4986969 Aft C.G. at Gross WeightWeight (lbs.)
Arm (in.) Moment (in.lbs.)Empty Weight 795
27.9820755 22245.75Pilot &
Passenger 448 44.1
19756.80Fuel 132
37.4 4936.8Baggage
50 69.76
3488Total 1425
50427.35C.
G. 3
5.387614
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_________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Lightning Weight and Balance |
Perth is 8 hours ahead of GMT. Getting our heads around USA time is
harder - the shortest distance and timeframe crosses the date line. It
is 8.40pm Thursday here at the moment.
I look forward to receiving the photos!
Regards & thanks
Wayne
________________________________
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Whittingham
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 5:59 PM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Weight and Balance
Wayne,
I've got a couple, let me find them and I'll send you an email to
your personal addy. I might be the only one up in the U.S. on the board
at this hour. 3a.m. here. What is your conversion to zulu there?
Brian W.
________________________________
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Weight and Balance
From: Wayne@lpwa.net
Hi Tom & Al
Would it be possible for you to email me a higher quality photo of your
aircraft in flight (Arion Intro Page) and taxying. I have just ordered
my kit and I'd like to print larger copies to pin up on my office wall
to keep me going!
Regards & thanks
Wayne Patterson
Perth Australia
wayne@lpwa.net
________________________________
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Whittingham
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:08 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning Weight and Balance
In the past there have been requests for weight and balance data
for the Lightning. Keep in mind that this is an
experimental and therefore your aircraft will depend on what you
put into it. I typed up a weight and balance from the
demonstrator. I know that this will get out of order when I put
it in an email, but if you want the info it shouldn't be too hard to
figure out how to get it spaced back out right. It should give
you an idea of how much you can carry and where you can carry it
Brian W.
Aircraft Type: Arion Lightning
N Number: N323AL
Serial Number: #0029
Reference Datum: Firewall
Level Point: Across cockpit top
rail longitudinally, and across cockpit
Forward Limit: 26.5"
Aft Limit: 36.5"
Initial Weight and Balance
Weight (lbs.) Arm
(in.) Moment (in.lbs.)
Front 199
-14.75 -2935.25
Left 295
42.25 12463.75
Right 301 42.25
12717.75
Total 795
22245.75
C.G.
27.9820755
Baggage Capacity 50lbs. max
Empty Aircraft: Unuseable Fuel and Operating fluids
Weight
Moment (in.lbs.)
Empty Weight 795
22245.75
Center of Gravity 27.9820755
Forward C.G. (with 205lb. pilot and 6 gallons of useable fuel)
Weight (lbs.) Arm (in.) Moment (in.lbs.)
Empty Weight 795
27.9820755 22245.75
Pilot & Passenger 205 44.1
9040.5
Fuel 36
37.4 1346.4
Baggage 0 69.76
0
Total 1036
32632.65
C.G.
31.4986969
Aft C.G. at Gross Weight
Weight (lbs.) Arm (in.) Moment (in.lbs.)
Empty Weight 795
27.9820755 22245.75
Pilot & Passenger 448 44.1
19756.80
Fuel 132
37.4 4936.8
Baggage 50 69.76
3488
Total 1425
50427.35
C.G.
35.387614
________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM,
mail_join' target='_new'>Learn more.
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| Subject: | Lightning Weight and Balance |
Wayne, Tried sending the photos, but got kicked back. Let me try sending
one at a time. Maybe the first email was just too big. Each photo is abo
ut 3mb.
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Weight and BalanceDate: Thu, 7 Feb 2
008 20:48:34 +0900From: Wayne@lpwa.netTo: lightning-list@matronics.com
Perth is 8 hours ahead of GMT. Getting our heads around USA time is harder
' the shortest distance and timeframe crosses the date line. It is 8.40
pm Thursday here at the moment.
I look forward to receiving the photos!
Regards & thanks
Wayne
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian WhittinghamSent: Thursday, Febru
ary 07, 2008 5:59 PMTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Lightning-
List: Lightning Weight and Balance
Wayne, I've got a couple, let me find them and I'll send you an email to
your personal addy. I might be the only one up in the U.S. on the board at
this hour. 3a.m. here. What is your conversion to zulu there? Brian W.
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Weight and BalanceDate: Thu, 7 Feb 2
008 17:55:54 +0900From: Wayne@lpwa.netTo: lightning-list@matronics.com
Hi Tom & Al
Would it be possible for you to email me a higher quality photo of your air
craft in flight (Arion Intro Page) and taxying. I have just ordered my kit
and I=92d like to print larger copies to pin up on my office wall to keep
me going!
Regards & thanks
Wayne Patterson
Perth Australia
wayne@lpwa.net
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian WhittinghamSent: Wednesday, Febr
uary 06, 2008 5:08 PMTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Lightning-Lis
t: Lightning Weight and Balance
In the past there have been requests for weight and balance data for the L
ightning. Keep in mind that this is anexperimental and therefore your airc
raft will depend on what you put into it. I typed up a weight and balance
from thedemonstrator. I know that this will get out of order when I put it
in an email, but if you want the info it shouldn't be too hard tofigure ou
t how to get it spaced back out right. It should give you an idea of how m
uch you can carry and where you can carry itBrian W.Aircraft Type:
Arion LightningN Number: N
323ALSerial Number: #0029Reference Datum: Firewall
Level Point: Across cockpit top rail longitud
inally, and across cockpit Forward Limit: 26
.5=94Aft Limit: 36.5=94 Initial Weight an
d Balance Weight (lbs.) Arm (in.
) Moment (in.lbs.)Front 199
-14.75 -2935.25Left 295
42.25 12463.75Right
301 42.25 12717.7
5Total 795
22245.75C.G.
27.9820755 Baggage Capacity 50lbs. max Empty Aircraft: Unuseable F
uel and Operating fluids Weight
Moment (in.lbs.)Empty Weight 795
22245.75Center of Gravity 27.9820755 Forward C.G.
(with 205lb. pilot and 6 gallons of useable fuel)Weight (lbs.)
Arm (in.) Moment (in.lbs.)Empty Weight
795 27.9820755 22245.7
5Pilot & Passenger 205 44.1
9040.5Fuel 3
6 37.4 1346
.4Baggage 0 69.76
0Total 1
036 326
32.65C.G.
31.4986969 Aft C.G. at Gross WeightWeight (lbs.)
Arm (in.) Moment (in.lbs.)Empty Weight 795
27.9820755 22245.75Pilot &
Passenger 448 44.1
19756.80Fuel 132
37.4 4936.8Baggage
50 69.76
3488Total 1425
50427.35C.
G. 3
5.387614
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, mail_j
oin' target='_new'>Learn more. http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listp://foru
ms.matronics.comblank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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atronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Lightning Vs Long-EZ? |
I'm a prospective plane builder/enthusiast, trying to get my mind wrapped
around the idea of building an airplane, and I've been lurking on a few lists
for a while. I'm a software engineer, and fly about 50/50 business/pleasure.
Towards this end, I'm looking for, in order of importance:
A) Safe, (tame handling characteristics, benign stall characteristics,
reliability, strong airframe construction with a "crash cage" a plus)
B) Cheap & Easy to build, (quality instructions, low materials cost, simple
construction)
C) Capability: The faster, the better. Ability to add IFR capability a strong
plus. I fly to get places. I like efficient airframes with good glideslopes -
If I have to "dead stick" a landing, I want as much time before touchdown as
possible.
D) Cool looks. (who doesn't want something sexy looking?)
Here's my analysis of these two aircraft, they have lots in common:
A) Both claim safety as a primary goal in design. The Long-EZ is notable in
that it's nearly impossible to stall in the usual sense, if the CG is
anywhere near reasonable. The Lightning has a nice "crash cage" around the
cockpit, along with a very low stall speed.
B) Both are either Cheap and/or easy to build. (Lightning is easier to build,
Long-EZ is cheaper, both seem reasonable)
C) Both are mighty fast given modest powerplants, and claim amazing
fuel efficiency and glideslopes. Lightning 17:1, Long EZ 18:1. Both compare
nicely with a Cessna at 7:1!!!! Both seem like a good platform for adding IFR
capability.
D) Both look way cool. The Long-EZ looks more extreme because of it's
vagely "Star Wars X-wing fighter" motif, but the Lightning's more
classic "this is an airplane" look may be a bit more soothing to new
passengers.
So, I have no clear winner. I'm up for grabs on which one I might actually
consider getting behind. I'm interested in first-hand experience, as well
as "friend-of-a-friend" stories...
Thanks,
Ben Smith
Private Pilot
--
--
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your
eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long
to return."
-- Leonardo da Vinci
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning Vs Long-EZ? |
Ben-
You mention you want to take passengers with you. If
you take them on a flight of any distance, it is
really nice having them right next to you so you can
see them while you are talking. Tandem seating is not
ideal for taking passengers. Fly the Lightning- you
will be amazed at its fighter-like feel. There is no
other light plane like it. Charles
--- Benjamin Smith <pilot@benjamindsmith.com> wrote:
> <pilot@benjamindsmith.com>
>
> I'm a prospective plane builder/enthusiast, trying
> to get my mind wrapped
> around the idea of building an airplane, and I've
> been lurking on a few lists
> for a while. I'm a software engineer, and fly about
> 50/50 business/pleasure.
> Towards this end, I'm looking for, in order of
> importance:
>
> A) Safe, (tame handling characteristics, benign
> stall characteristics,
> reliability, strong airframe construction with a
> "crash cage" a plus)
>
> B) Cheap & Easy to build, (quality instructions, low
> materials cost, simple
> construction)
>
> C) Capability: The faster, the better. Ability to
> add IFR capability a strong
> plus. I fly to get places. I like efficient
> airframes with good glideslopes -
> If I have to "dead stick" a landing, I want as much
> time before touchdown as
> possible.
>
> D) Cool looks. (who doesn't want something sexy
> looking?)
>
> Here's my analysis of these two aircraft, they have
> lots in common:
>
> A) Both claim safety as a primary goal in design.
> The Long-EZ is notable in
> that it's nearly impossible to stall in the usual
> sense, if the CG is
> anywhere near reasonable. The Lightning has a nice
> "crash cage" around the
> cockpit, along with a very low stall speed.
>
> B) Both are either Cheap and/or easy to build.
> (Lightning is easier to build,
> Long-EZ is cheaper, both seem reasonable)
>
> C) Both are mighty fast given modest powerplants,
> and claim amazing
> fuel efficiency and glideslopes. Lightning 17:1,
> Long EZ 18:1. Both compare
> nicely with a Cessna at 7:1!!!! Both seem like a
> good platform for adding IFR
> capability.
>
> D) Both look way cool. The Long-EZ looks more
> extreme because of it's
> vagely "Star Wars X-wing fighter" motif, but the
> Lightning's more
> classic "this is an airplane" look may be a bit more
> soothing to new
> passengers.
>
> So, I have no clear winner. I'm up for grabs on
> which one I might actually
> consider getting behind. I'm interested in
> first-hand experience, as well
> as "friend-of-a-friend" stories...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ben Smith
> Private Pilot
> --
> --
> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever
> walk the earth with your
> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and
> there you will always long
> to return."
> -- Leonardo da Vinci
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning Vs Long-EZ? |
Hi All,
Maybe I've been flying for too long but I'm not so
sure about the significance of stall speed to safety
in a way that many people might think. Primarily with
regard to the types of sport aircraft that we are
interested in.
By that I mean that I dont believe that a difference
of say 10-15% in stall speeds will be of much
consequence in critical situations. Would you agree
that we are really pretty much talking about a turn
back on early climbout after loss of power as the
principal scenario?
I'd argue that if the pilot doesnt have the rehearsed
self discipline acquire an appropriate approach
attitiude and to land ahead in a controlled crash when
there is insufficient height/speed to safely turn back
to the airfield, then a few knots lower stall speed
wont help much. Their situational awareness will still
be such that they are most likely going to lose it in
attempting to stretch the glide.
The greater significance relates to the reduced
landing and takeoff distance requirements afforded via
the lower stall speed... the greater range of options
for emergency landing areas afforded by the reduced
runway requirements which in itself is an enhancement
to safety.
Just my thoughts.
Laurie
Sydney
PS When can I expect to see that aircraft flying over
my place Peter?
--- Charles Dewey <cdewey6969@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Ben-
> You mention you want to take passengers with you.
> If
> you take them on a flight of any distance, it is
> really nice having them right next to you so you can
> see them while you are talking. Tandem seating is
> not
> ideal for taking passengers. Fly the Lightning- you
> will be amazed at its fighter-like feel. There is no
> other light plane like it. Charles
>
>
> --- Benjamin Smith <pilot@benjamindsmith.com> wrote:
>
> Smith
> > <pilot@benjamindsmith.com>
> >
> > I'm a prospective plane builder/enthusiast, trying
> > to get my mind wrapped
> > around the idea of building an airplane, and I've
> > been lurking on a few lists
> > for a while. I'm a software engineer, and fly
> about
> > 50/50 business/pleasure.
> > Towards this end, I'm looking for, in order of
> > importance:
> >
> > A) Safe, (tame handling characteristics, benign
> > stall characteristics,
> > reliability, strong airframe construction with a
> > "crash cage" a plus)
> >
> > B) Cheap & Easy to build, (quality instructions,
> low
> > materials cost, simple
> > construction)
> >
> > C) Capability: The faster, the better. Ability to
> > add IFR capability a strong
> > plus. I fly to get places. I like efficient
> > airframes with good glideslopes -
> > If I have to "dead stick" a landing, I want as
> much
> > time before touchdown as
> > possible.
> >
> > D) Cool looks. (who doesn't want something sexy
> > looking?)
> >
> > Here's my analysis of these two aircraft, they
> have
> > lots in common:
> >
> > A) Both claim safety as a primary goal in design.
> > The Long-EZ is notable in
> > that it's nearly impossible to stall in the usual
> > sense, if the CG is
> > anywhere near reasonable. The Lightning has a nice
> > "crash cage" around the
> > cockpit, along with a very low stall speed.
> >
> > B) Both are either Cheap and/or easy to build.
> > (Lightning is easier to build,
> > Long-EZ is cheaper, both seem reasonable)
> >
> > C) Both are mighty fast given modest powerplants,
> > and claim amazing
> > fuel efficiency and glideslopes. Lightning 17:1,
> > Long EZ 18:1. Both compare
> > nicely with a Cessna at 7:1!!!! Both seem like a
> > good platform for adding IFR
> > capability.
> >
> > D) Both look way cool. The Long-EZ looks more
> > extreme because of it's
> > vagely "Star Wars X-wing fighter" motif, but the
> > Lightning's more
> > classic "this is an airplane" look may be a bit
> more
> > soothing to new
> > passengers.
> >
> > So, I have no clear winner. I'm up for grabs on
> > which one I might actually
> > consider getting behind. I'm interested in
> > first-hand experience, as well
> > as "friend-of-a-friend" stories...
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ben Smith
> > Private Pilot
> > --
> > --
> > "When once you have tasted flight, you will
> forever
> > walk the earth with your
> > eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and
> > there you will always long
> > to return."
> > -- Leonardo da Vinci
> >
> > --
> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> > believed to be clean.
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Un/Subscription,
> > FAQ,
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
> >
> > Forums!
> >
> > Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
>
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
Laurie
02 46531233
0425 703226
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 9
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| Subject: | Have you got the Clap? |
All,
Well, now that I have your attention with that subject line, let me
explain. What happens after you see a bolt of Lightning? You get a thunder
clap. Right? Well, everyone on the list has by now seen a Lightning so it is
about time to get a thunder clap in the form of a newsletter. Yes, with the
help of Nick and the others at Arion Aircraft, I am about to start a Lightning
Newsletter that hopefully will go out monthly. You will initially receive it
via this list, but it should also be published and archived on the Arion web
site. I don't think the Matronics list will allow files large enough to
include photos in our newsletter, but if we get that fancy and we actually have
photos, those would be included in the Lightning Newsletter section of the
Arion web site. Aren't you excited? No, I don't mean it that way Earl.
For all of you out there, your mission, should you decide to accept it,
is to give me some suggestions on what we should call the Lightning
Newsletter and what type of information you would like to see covered. As to
the
name, I really don't think "THE CLAP" would be all that appropriate unless CLAP
stands for Cool Lightning Air Plane. So send me your ideas for a name for our
newsletter.
Right now the obvious topics to be covered in each issue will be news
from the factory, news from dealers, news from builders and owners, upcoming
events, new first flights, and maybe a technical tips section. The dealers
will have a section so they can send in their news and this will also allow
prospective customers to know who to contact in their areas. So help me get the
ball rolling and together we can make this a good newsletter.
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Lightning Vs Long-EZ? |
Laurie,
It is my thoughts that the stall speed is not the issue when people talk
about LSA's. After all, we know that an aircraft will stall at only one s
peed, but it is the angle of attack that is fixed when it comes to a stall.
One example, I stalled an airplane whose stall speed is 58 knots at over
90 the other day. I believe that the whole idea of requiring a low stall s
peed on LSA aircraft is taking safety into consideration. Many LSA pilots
are either new to aviation or old. Both categories contain a lot of inexpe
rienced pilots or at least unexperienced recently. If you require a low st
all speed, then you are essentially saying that you are requiring a low spe
ed approach. Things happen a lot slower at a 40 knot approach then say a s
mall business jet with a 110 knot approach speed. Typically the approach s
peed is flown at 1.3 * Vso, or 1.5 * Vso. (1.5 is often used for prototype
aircraft where the stall speed is unknown. In place of Vso, the minimum un
stuck or takeoff speed is used) Also, in the event that an "off airfield e
xcursion" takes place, it is much less likely to end fatally the slower you
go. We did a stall series in N323AL where we recorded I think it was 30 d
egrees of flaps and an average of 29 knot stall speed, without vortex gener
ators. I would say that you'd have a hard time finding an aircraft capable
of the wide speed range of the Lightning, especially in a low wing aircraf
t. If you look at the profile of the wing on the Lightning, it is thick, b
ut it is a good planform that gives good L/D characteristics. Brian W.> Da
te: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 22:49:29 -0800> From: lozhoffman@yahoo.com> Subject: Re
: Lightning-List: Lightning Vs Long-EZ?> To: lightning-list@matronics.com>
m>> > Hi All,> Maybe I've been flying for too long but I'm not so> sure abo
ut the significance of stall speed to safety> in a way that many people mig
ht think. Primarily with> regard to the types of sport aircraft that we are
> interested in.> > By that I mean that I dont believe that a difference> o
f say 10-15% in stall speeds will be of much> consequence in critical situa
tions. Would you agree> that we are really pretty much talking about a turn
> back on early climbout after loss of power as the> principal scenario? >
> I'd argue that if the pilot doesnt have the rehearsed> self discipline ac
quire an appropriate approach> attitiude and to land ahead in a controlled
crash when> there is insufficient height/speed to safely turn back> to the
airfield, then a few knots lower stall speed> wont help much. Their situati
onal awareness will still> be such that they are most likely going to lose
it in> attempting to stretch the glide.> > The greater significance relates
to the reduced> landing and takeoff distance requirements afforded via> th
e lower stall speed... the greater range of options> for emergency landing
areas afforded by the reduced> runway requirements which in itself is an en
hancement> to safety.> > Just my thoughts.> Laurie> Sydney> PS When can I e
xpect to see that aircraft flying over> my place Peter?> > --- Charles Dewe
Charles Dewey> > <cdewey6969@yahoo.com>> > > > > > Ben- > > You mention you
want to take passengers with you.> > If> > you take them on a flight of an
y distance, it is> > really nice having them right next to you so you can>
> see them while you are talking. Tandem seating is> > not> > ideal for tak
ing passengers. Fly the Lightning- you> > will be amazed at its fighter-lik
e feel. There is no> > other light plane like it. Charles> > > > > > --- Be
njamin Smith <pilot@benjamindsmith.com> wrote:> > > > > --> Lightning-List
message posted by: Benjamin> > Smith> > > <pilot@benjamindsmith.com>> > > >
> > I'm a prospective plane builder/enthusiast, trying> > > to get my mind
wrapped > > > around the idea of building an airplane, and I've> > > been
lurking on a few lists > > > for a while. I'm a software engineer, and fly>
> about> > > 50/50 business/pleasure. > > > Towards this end, I'm looking
for, in order of> > > importance: > > > > > > A) Safe, (tame handling chara
cteristics, benign> > > stall characteristics, > > > reliability, strong ai
rframe construction with a> > > "crash cage" a plus) > > > > > > B) Cheap &
Easy to build, (quality instructions,> > low> > > materials cost, simple >
> > construction) > > > > > > C) Capability: The faster, the better. Abili
ty to> > > add IFR capability a strong > > > plus. I fly to get places. I l
ike efficient> > > airframes with good glideslopes - > > > If I have to "de
ad stick" a landing, I want as> > much> > > time before touchdown as > > >
possible.> > > > > > D) Cool looks. (who doesn't want something sexy> > > l
ooking?) > > > > > > Here's my analysis of these two aircraft, they> > have
> > > lots in common: > > > > > > A) Both claim safety as a primary goal in
design.> > > The Long-EZ is notable in > > > that it's nearly impossible t
o stall in the usual> > > sense, if the CG is > > > anywhere near reasonabl
e. The Lightning has a nice> > > "crash cage" around the > > > cockpit, alo
ng with a very low stall speed. > > > > > > B) Both are either Cheap and/or
easy to build.> > > (Lightning is easier to build, > > > Long-EZ is cheape
r, both seem reasonable) > > > > > > C) Both are mighty fast given modest p
owerplants,> > > and claim amazing > > > fuel efficiency and glideslopes. L
ightning 17:1,> > > Long EZ 18:1. Both compare > > > nicely with a Cessna a
t 7:1!!!! Both seem like a> > > good platform for adding IFR > > > capabili
ty. > > > > > > D) Both look way cool. The Long-EZ looks more> > > extreme
because of it's > > > vagely "Star Wars X-wing fighter" motif, but the> > >
Lightning's more > > > classic "this is an airplane" look may be a bit> >
more> > > soothing to new > > > passengers. > > > > > > So, I have no clear
winner. I'm up for grabs on> > > which one I might actually > > > consider
getting behind. I'm interested in> > > first-hand experience, as well > >
> as "friend-of-a-friend" stories... > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Ben Sm
ith > > > Private Pilot> > > -- > > > --> > > "When once you have tasted fl
ight, you will> > forever> > > walk the earth with your > > > eyes turned s
kyward, for there you have been, and> > > there you will always long > > >
to return." > > > -- Leonardo da Vinci> > > > > > -- > > > This message has
been scanned for viruses and> > > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> > > believed to be clean.> > > > > > > > >> > > browse> > > Un/Subscripti
on,> > > FAQ,> > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List> > >>
> > Forums!> > >> > > Admin.> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be
a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
now. > >> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> >
> > > > > >> > browse> > Un/Subscription,> > FAQ,> > http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Lightning-List> >> > Forums!> >> > Admin.> >> > > > > > > > >
> > Laurie> 02 46531233> 0425 703226> > > > Be a better friend, newshound,
and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;
================> > >
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Have you got the Clap? |
Buz,
What are you still doing up? Are you in Australia now too? I'm working
night shift and so I have an excuse! *L*
Lightning news letter sounds cool. Wish I was still around SYI and I could
provide you some pics. I probably have 1000 or so pics, but only printed
about the best 25 or so.
Along your lines of thinking with a name of a news letter. I was thinking
less of what follows Lightning and more of what preceeds it. For me, when
I saw the Lightning for the first time, my thoughts were, that is going to
be one sexy and fun airplane. And that was when it was a fuselage in the f
loor with no engine or wings or interior or panel, but only a concept reall
y. I already knew that sitting one of those down at the EAA breakfast alon
g with a bunch of RV-X's and RV-Y's that this thing would stand out and tur
n heads. So again, preconcieved notions. I'm proud to say that I wasn't d
isappointed and it does turn heads and does fly well. I was always a littl
e confused when people would say something like "holding short behind the L
ancair." Don't know whether to be offended or proud of that, since the Lan
cair is a great aircraft with obviously good looks.
Anyhow, my thoughts were something with the word "Flash" in it. For one b/
c the Lightning is Flashy. It also stays true to the Lightning name. It's
also a play on words for "News Flash". My thought was "Flashpoint". This
also comes from my former life trying to memorize the US Naval Academy "Re
af Points" which was a eclectic collection of tips, tricks, stories, etc. t
hat was required for cadets to learn. I think that it would be appropriate
, but would like to hear what others think of that and if they have any ide
as of their own. (we could use Thunder Rolls, Rolls as in documents, of co
urse there's that weird reference to Garth Brooks :-P Just kidding of cours
e) Brian W.
From: N1BZRich@AOL.COMDate: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 02:04:04 -0500Subject: Lightnin
g-List: Have you got the Clap?To: lightning-list@matronics.com
All,
Well, now that I have your attention with that subject line, let me exp
lain. What happens after you see a bolt of Lightning? You get a thunder c
lap. Right? Well, everyone on the list has by now seen a Lightning so it
is about time to get a thunder clap in the form of a newsletter. Yes, with
the help of Nick and the others at Arion Aircraft, I am about to start a L
ightning Newsletter that hopefully will go out monthly. You will initially
receive it via this list, but it should also be published and archived on
the Arion web site. I don't think the Matronics list will allow files larg
e enough to include photos in our newsletter, but if we get that fancy and
we actually have photos, those would be included in the Lightning Newslette
r section of the Arion web site. Aren't you excited? No, I don't mean it
that way Earl.
For all of you out there, your mission, should you decide to accept it,
is to give me some suggestions on what we should call the Lightning Newsle
tter and what type of information you would like to see covered. As to the
name, I really don't think "THE CLAP" would be all that appropriate unless
CLAP stands for Cool Lightning Air Plane. So send me your ideas for a nam
e for our newsletter.
Right now the obvious topics to be covered in each issue will be news f
rom the factory, news from dealers, news from builders and owners, upcoming
events, new first flights, and maybe a technical tips section. The dealer
s will have a section so they can send in their news and this will also all
ow prospective customers to know who to contact in their areas. So help me
get the ball rolling and together we can make this a good newsletter.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
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08
Message 12
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| Subject: | Lightning Weight and Balance |
Wayne,
Should be around 1530 lcl there if I did that right. Just wanted to che
ck and see if you got your 3 photos that I sent via email. Nothing
bounced back so I assume it worked, or I overloaded your email account and
you can't log back in. Brian W.
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Weight and BalanceDate: Thu, 7 Feb 2
008 20:48:34 +0900From: Wayne@lpwa.netTo: lightning-list@matronics.com
Perth is 8 hours ahead of GMT. Getting our heads around USA time is harder
' the shortest distance and timeframe crosses the date line. It is 8.40
pm Thursday here at the moment.
I look forward to receiving the photos!
Regards & thanks
Wayne
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian WhittinghamSent: Thursday, Febru
ary 07, 2008 5:59 PMTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Lightning-
List: Lightning Weight and Balance
Wayne, I've got a couple, let me find them and I'll send you an email to
your personal addy. I might be the only one up in the U.S. on the board at
this hour. 3a.m. here. What is your conversion to zulu there? Brian W.
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Weight and BalanceDate: Thu, 7 Feb 2
008 17:55:54 +0900From: Wayne@lpwa.netTo: lightning-list@matronics.com
Hi Tom & Al
Would it be possible for you to email me a higher quality photo of your air
craft in flight (Arion Intro Page) and taxying. I have just ordered my kit
and I=92d like to print larger copies to pin up on my office wall to keep
me going!
Regards & thanks
Wayne Patterson
Perth Australia
wayne@lpwa.net
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian WhittinghamSent: Wednesday, Febr
uary 06, 2008 5:08 PMTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Lightning-Lis
t: Lightning Weight and Balance
In the past there have been requests for weight and balance data for the L
ightning. Keep in mind that this is anexperimental and therefore your airc
raft will depend on what you put into it. I typed up a weight and balance
from thedemonstrator. I know that this will get out of order when I put it
in an email, but if you want the info it shouldn't be too hard tofigure ou
t how to get it spaced back out right. It should give you an idea of how m
uch you can carry and where you can carry itBrian W.Aircraft Type:
Arion LightningN Number: N
323ALSerial Number: #0029Reference Datum: Firewall
Level Point: Across cockpit top rail longitud
inally, and across cockpit Forward Limit: 26
.5=94Aft Limit: 36.5=94 Initial Weight an
d Balance Weight (lbs.) Arm (in.
) Moment (in.lbs.)Front 199
-14.75 -2935.25Left 295
42.25 12463.75Right
301 42.25 12717.7
5Total 795
22245.75C.G.
27.9820755 Baggage Capacity 50lbs. max Empty Aircraft: Unuseable F
uel and Operating fluids Weight
Moment (in.lbs.)Empty Weight 795
22245.75Center of Gravity 27.9820755 Forward C.G.
(with 205lb. pilot and 6 gallons of useable fuel)Weight (lbs.)
Arm (in.) Moment (in.lbs.)Empty Weight
795 27.9820755 22245.7
5Pilot & Passenger 205 44.1
9040.5Fuel 3
6 37.4 1346
.4Baggage 0 69.76
0Total 1
036 326
32.65C.G.
31.4986969 Aft C.G. at Gross WeightWeight (lbs.)
Arm (in.) Moment (in.lbs.)Empty Weight 795
27.9820755 22245.75Pilot &
Passenger 448 44.1
19756.80Fuel 132
37.4 4936.8Baggage
50 69.76
3488Total 1425
50427.35C.
G. 3
5.387614
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