---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/18/08: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:06 AM - Re: Answers that resulted from the Newsletter (Pete) 2. 04:14 PM - paint scheme (Jim Langley) (Tex Mantell) 3. 04:44 PM - Re: paint scheme (Jim Langley) (Jim Langley) 4. 04:54 PM - new guy - a few questions (K Muller) 5. 06:50 PM - Re: Re: Frapper Map (Jim Langley) 6. 07:29 PM - Re: new guy - a few questions (ryan gross) 7. 08:58 PM - Re: Gear Leg Shimmy (Bruce & Colleen Keen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:34 AM PST US From: "Pete" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Answers that resulted from the Newsletter Hello All, I'd like to clear up a few things about the FAA's decision last week to temporarily discontinue kit evaluations for inclusion to the list of 51% eligible kits. First, it is temporary and the working group within the FAA will continue to formulate some changes to order 8130.2F which is the document that FAA personnel and DAR's use when evaluating an aircraft for an experimental amateur built airworthiness certificate. This group hopes to have some proposed guidelines in late fall of 2008. Until then there is no effect on the Lightning or any other kit plane. Second, the evaluation process and checklist used (form 8000-38) is representative of metal and tube and fabric kit construction. Much of the list categories are not applicable to composite construction and many items that should be considered in evaluating a composite kit are not found on the checklist. This has opened the door pretty wide for individual DAR interpretation of what constitutes a 51% compliant kit. The FAA wants to make the process more uniform and more pertinent to composite kits. There may be some changes to order 8130.2F that will require the Lightning kit to be different. We don't expect much effect on us but we don't know at this time. I would expect that the FAA would grant a transition period as they have in the past so that kits already under construction would be "grandfathered" into the system as long as airworthiness certificates have been issued in the past for those kits. Third, the FAA will evaluate and clear up their approach to commercial assistance to kit builders. Initially we hear that build centers where there is a crew of 8 or 10 men working on an experimental aircraft that is supposed to be amateur built "for the purpose of the builders education and recreation) will be looked at very closely. There have already been examples of AW certificates being denied on some of these kits where the builder obviously had little involvement. We welcome a clarification and an effort to build some uniformity into the process. Our build assist program may or may not be affected. Since builders do a great deal of work on their aircraft in the Lightning program we don't think the new approach will affect us much. One thing is for sure - there is no effect until the FAA working group makes its recommendations late in 2008 so if you are looking at a Lightning - get it done this year and you will see no effect. Rest assured that we will watch the progress of the FAA's working group closely and will do everything we can to adapt to any changes that may come about. Pete Krotje Arion Aircraft, LLC _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@AOL.COM Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Answers that resulted from the Newsletter In a message dated 2/16/2008 10:27:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, cjk129@cox.net writes: I am particularly interested in the new pitch system geometry, the new electric trim system with an actual trim tab on the elevator, the 1" longer engine mount, and center throttle. Hi Colin and all, You may want to talk to the guys in SYI, but based on my last talk with Nick, you will be able make all of the pitch system changes to your kit if you wanted to. Actually the center throttle is not a change - you can put it where you want based on what you like. Several have been built with a center throttle, several with a left hand throttle, and some with dual throttles. For me, based on most of my past experience, the stick goes in the right hand and the throttle goes in the left hand. I have a dual set up in my airplane with a throttle on the left and a throttle in the center so if feels right for me no matter which side I happen to be flying from. Actually when flying the old demo (323AL has a center throttle) solo, I normally fly from the right seat. I do the same thing when I fly Linda's Lightning. That just feels right to me. The 1" longer engine mount just moves the CG forward a small amount and you may or may not want to do that. The engine cowling as it comes must be trimmed on the aft end, so no new cowling pieces will be required with a longer mount. Whether you want do any or all of the pitch geometry changes basically will depend on whether you liked the way the demo felt in pitch when you flew 323AL. Basically Nick has made these changes so that they really are options based on how sensitive you want your airplane to fly - you can "tune it", so to speak, to get what you want. So the pitch geometry changes are not dependent on each other. You can include all. some, or none. I really liked the responsiveness of the set up that was on the prototype and demo Lightning. However some thought it was a little too sensitive, hence the changes to the pitch geometry. The neat way that Nick has accomplished this will allow builders to "have it your way". Meaning you can set it up based on what you like while you are building it. The new electric trim system will just require some new parts and a little more work. I am pretty sure Nick is using a Ray Allen electric servo to move the trim tab. Also the trim tab itself is cut out of the trailing edge of the elevator and then hinged to the cut out with a length of piano hinge. The servo mounts inside the elevator and you would need to cut an access hole for it and mount it inside the elevator, and a slot for a small push pull rod that would go to a control horn on the new hinged trim tab. Of course wires to the electric servo are also required. I will probably go back to SYI in March and fly the prototype some more to get a feel for these changes. I am also looking forward to flying the new 2008 Demo on the same trip and of course will write a flight report on it (324AL) which will be included in the March or April Lightning Newsletter. Blue Skies, Buz _____ Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:31 PM PST US From: "Tex Mantell" Subject: Lightning-List: paint scheme (Jim Langley) Jim, I would like to use some of the Ideas in your paint scheme with your permission. I have spent many hours looking at different layouts and I keep comming back to your scheme and really like it. The colors will be beige ,brown, and tan, with a fad in the tail area as well as in the front near the tail. I havent finallized the total scheme yet, but your general idea is far the best I have seen. Tex ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:17 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: paint scheme (Jim Langley) No problem at all. If you make it the same, we will look very cool flying in formation together! (grin) _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tex Mantell Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 7:12 PM Subject: Lightning-List: paint scheme (Jim Langley) Jim, I would like to use some of the Ideas in your paint scheme with your permission. I have spent many hours looking at different layouts and I keep comming back to your scheme and really like it. The colors will be beige ,brown, and tan, with a fad in the tail area as well as in the front near the tail. I havent finallized the total scheme yet, but your general idea is far the best I have seen. Tex ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:21 PM PST US From: "K Muller" Subject: Lightning-List: new guy - a few questions Hello.. just jointed the list and am seriously considering the Lightning. Just for a little background - I'm a 300 hour, former Beech Sundowner owner and was looking to get into something faster like a Tiger. But with the cost of avgas lately, I've been trying to come up with something more economical to operate, but maintain as much of the utility as possible (aside from the back seat... don't need it). I was thinking of building an O320 powered RV6A, then came across the Lightning, which looks a whole lot easier to build, goes as fast or faster and is cheaper to operate. But the big stumbling block for me is the lack of available hangers where I am in Connecticut, and the fact that the Lightning, being glass, might not be a good candidate to leave outside. This might be a temporary situation, but what's the opinion of the group on this? Another issue, and I hate to bring this up, but what about the resale value of a Lightning down the road. I'm guessing that with something like an RV6A, you could recoup most of your monotary investment.. maybe not your time. But a Lightning...I'm guessing that at this point the early builders are taking a bit of a risk? Anyway, if I can get by these two issues i think it's a go for me. I've already made plans to be at Sun-N-Fun and hope to get a ride while I'm there. Thanks for any info Kyle Muller ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:20 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re: Frapper Map Just another reminder. The Frapper map is a place where all of the Lightning owners, (you might have just ordered, are building, or completed), can let each other know where they are. We have Lightning and Esqual owners all over the world. How good it is to find out that there is another Lightning owner close to you? Here are a few tips for entering your information. There are three color pins, (I can add more if needed) - Use yellow if you are a Lightning owner - Use blue if you are a Esqual owner - Use red if you are a dealer/distributor Use the "shoutout" field to describe yourself, or add your web address and pictures. For instance Green Landings Flight Center www.greenlandings.com (Telephone number) The map is not perfect and has some bugs, but it IS a great way to us to see at a glance where everyone is, and for new customers to gather information about distributors and customers. Keep it coming! http://www.frappr.com/?a=constellation_map &mapid=137439272225 It is an easy way to see where everyone is. Jim! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:20 PM PST US From: "ryan gross" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: new guy - a few questions Kyle, I just want to introduce myself. I am the mid Atlantic dealer for Lightning and want to put an invite out to you to visit Green Landings in West Virginia to take that demo Flight and see a few different Lightnings that I have based on the field. Its funny that you mention the lack of hangar space in the Conn. area. I have a customer that built a SkyRanger with me that was also looking for hangar space in that area and was unable to find any at a reasonable cost. He now keeps his SkyRanger at Green Landings and travels to our airport every couple weeks to fly. He is also interested in a Lightning, and may consider trading up one day. Anyway just wanted to say Hi and leave that open invitation to come to Green Landings. You will love it here!! Ryan Gross Green Landings Flight Center, Inc SkyRanger Aircraft Arion Lightning 304-754-6010 -----Original Message----- From: "K Muller" Subject: Lightning-List: new guy - a few questions Hello.. just jointed the list and am seriously considering the Lightning. Just for a little background - I'm a 300 hour, former Beech Sundowner owner and was looking to get into something faster like a Tiger. But with the cost of avgas lately, I've been trying to come up with something more economical to operate, but maintain as much of the utility as possible (aside from the back seat... don't need it). I was thinking of building an O320 powered RV6A, then came across the Lightning, which looks a whole lot easier to build, goes as fast or faster and is cheaper to operate. But the big stumbling block for me is the lack of available hangers where I am in Connecticut, and the fact that the Lightning, being glass, might not be a good candidate to leave outside. This might be a temporary situation, but what's the opinion of the group on this? Another issue, and I hate to bring this up, but what about the resale value of a Lightning down the road. I'm guessing that with something like an RV6A, you could recoup most of your monotary investment.. maybe not your time. But a Lightning...I'm guessing that at this point the early builders are taking a bit of a risk? Anyway, if I can get by these two issues i think it's a go for me. I've already made plans to be at Sun-N-Fun and hope to get a ride while I'm there. Thanks for any info Kyle Muller http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:15 PM PST US From: "Bruce & Colleen Keen" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Gear Leg Shimmy Hi Anthony Had the same problem on both wings.(Kit #31) The flap brackets were out (not lined up). Requested replacement brackets (sent undrilled at pivot). Had to cut a hole (round) either side of bracket (in flap for access). Unbolted hinges ,and replaced..Clamped flap in place on wing brackets to suit (even gap about1/8th in). Then marked pivot holes, drilled, bolted up, perfect. (repaired holes). Cheers BK Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Catalpa aviation To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 12:21 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Gear Leg Shimmy Hullo from Australia, I have kit 32 and my axles were very loose. I had 2 half inch washers made up for the outboard side with a taper and holes for the nuts. On the inboard side leave the axle full length and cut a thread on the axle and a tapered (very small taper) washer and nut to hold the axle centre and tight, all you then have to do is drill the =BC hole and AN 4 bolt and nut according to the plans. As it was I had cut the axle to length so I had a tap put in the axle and bolted it in with a tapered washer and bolt with locking nut and safety wire to stop axle rotating. I do have a question relating to the flaps, when I fitted the port flap I could almost get my fingers between the flap and wing in the retracted position. As you cannot unbolt the flap brackets and you cannot bend, cut or weld them I had larger bronze bushes made and I drilled them out of centre with the flaps in place. I still have a fair gap as I was running out of meat on the flap brackets, what do I do now to make the gap neat and just big enough to clear? The starboard wing and flaps are just fine. Anthony Morrison Lighting 19-5301 -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2008 3:32 PM To: lightning-list@matronics.com Subject: Lightning-List: Gear Leg Shimmy Well folks, we changed the tires on the main wheels today to Goodyear Flight Custom IIIs; one of the original tires definitely was out of round and quite obvious while spinning it on the axle during removal. The new tires improved the shimmy a bit but it hasn't gone away. However, we have a new theory: during the tire changing, we noticed that the axle is quite loose on both main gear. The next idea is to put some shim stock around the axle to tighten its fit in the socket. Has anyone else noticed that the axle doesn't fit tightly? I'll post the results when we get the axle tightened. Linda Mathias ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- - The Lightning-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.