Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:10 AM - Re: new guy - a few questions (Jim Langley)
2. 05:52 AM - Re: new guy - a few questions (Allan Maxwell)
3. 06:39 AM - Re: re-sale value (Charles Dewey)
4. 03:11 PM - Re: new guy - a few questions (EAFerguson@aol.com)
5. 04:28 PM - Re: new guy - a few questions (N1BZRich@aol.com)
6. 04:33 PM - Just for Grins (N1BZRich@aol.com)
7. 05:11 PM - Re: new guy - a few questions (Allan Maxwell)
8. 06:14 PM - Re: new guy - a few questions (N1BZRich@aol.com)
9. 07:11 PM - Cylinder cooling (Fry)
Message 1
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| Subject: | new guy - a few questions |
Nice response Buz, (as always.)
Kyle, if it will help, go to the following address and read my comments
about why I chose the lightning.
Click on the picture of each airplane to go to the details.
http://www.jimslightning.com/html/why_lightning_.html
Jim!
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: new guy - a few questions
Hi Kyle,
Welcome to the group. I think you will fine a great group of folks
eager to help. I agree with your assessment that the Lightning will
certainly be much quicker to build and cheaper to operate than one of the RV
models. Even an RV quick build kit will take you much longer than a
Lightning. If you use the builder assist program you will be flying in
about six weeks total time.
You asked for some opinions on the Lightning being stored outside and
its possible resale value verses an RV. Well, let me start out by saying
that everyone has their own opinion and they may or may not be worth exactly
what you pay for them. In this case not even $.02. Having said that here
are my thoughts:
I am the kind of guy that really likes my airplanes and, other that when
at Oshkosh and Sun-N-Fun, would never let them sit outside. So go to every
airport in your area and get on their hangar waiting list. As an example,
one of my hangars is over an hours drive from my home. Of course my other
hangar is about 5 minutes away and I often drive the 5 then fly for 15 to
get to my other airplane. But often I do drive over an hour to fly the one
that is further away. So start the hangar quest now and get on everyone's
waiting list. And ask if they will allow you to put up your own portable
hangar such as the Port-a-port company.
Now if your Lightning absolutely has to sit outside, I would be more
worried about the avionics than the airframe. The Lightning is fiberglass
and how long have fiberglass boats and Corvettes sat outside? So if it must
sit outside, build it with some good tie down fittings under the wings and
then spend the money for a good cockpit cover - maybe a complete airplane
cover. You kit will come with the new canopy latch which should make it
easy to add a lock when it is tied down.
As to question about re-sale value for a Lightning down the road, your
guess is as good as any ones. However here are some things to consider.
The Lightning has been advertised for maybe a year and a half and in that
time frame some 55 have already sold with 22 flying. To me that is a great
response from the flying public and I see no reason the Lightning would not
remain a "top seller". The fact that it can be completed so quickly, looks
fantastic, and performs really well on an economical fuel burn will insure
it's continued success. There really is no direct competition when you
consider the "really quick" quick build. And the completion rate in such a
short time is probably some new record for experimental aircraft. Add to
that the economical operation and as fuel prices continue up, it should
become even more desirable. One other thought, and that is in the light
sport aircraft arena. Just this past Saturday a dealer for one of the well
known light sport aircraft presented a program on his product to one of the
EAA chapters I am in. The price was well above that of a really nice
Lightning (with dual EFISs) completed at the factory, and of course, the
performance was no where near that of the Lightning. And it had one of
those converted show mobile engines with a gear reduction unit and coolant
radiator to worry about. Of course the Lightning has a real airplane engine
that sounds like a real airplane. I kept asking myself why would anyone
buy one of these if they knew about the Lightning. And that is probably
just what is happening. Many buyers just don't do their homework and
research what is out there. They need to be at Sebring, Sun-N-Fun and
Oshkosh just to see what is really available in the market.
Well, enough from me. I hope others on the list will jump in here and
possibly relate their personal decision process and opinions on your
questions.
Blue Skies,
Buz
_____
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch
<http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du
ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598> the video on AOL Living.
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| Subject: | Re: new guy - a few questions |
hi Buz this is Allan Maxwell I have bin looking at the stuff on the lightning list.If
you could call me at 504-813-8134 the esqual owner in La. Or any one else
with an Esqual call if you can tell me about egt you are experenceing
N1BZRich@aol.com wrote: Hi Kyle,
Welcome to the group. I think you will fine a great group of folks eager
to help. I agree with your assessment that the Lightning will certainly be much
quicker to build and cheaper to operate than one of the RV models. Even an
RV quick build kit will take you much longer than a Lightning. If you use the
builder assist program you will be flying in about six weeks total time.
You asked for some opinions on the Lightning being stored outside and its
possible resale value verses an RV. Well, let me start out by saying that everyone
has their own opinion and they may or may not be worth exactly what you
pay for them. In this case not even $.02. Having said that here are my thoughts:
I am the kind of guy that really likes my airplanes and, other that when
at Oshkosh and Sun-N-Fun, would never let them sit outside. So go to every airport
in your area and get on their hangar waiting list. As an example, one of
my hangars is over an hours drive from my home. Of course my other hangar is
about 5 minutes away and I often drive the 5 then fly for 15 to get to my other
airplane. But often I do drive over an hour to fly the one that is further
away. So start the hangar quest now and get on everyone's waiting list. And
ask if they will allow you to put up your own portable hangar such as the Port-a-port
company.
Now if your Lightning absolutely has to sit outside, I would be more worried
about the avionics than the airframe. The Lightning is fiberglass and how
long have fiberglass boats and Corvettes sat outside? So if it must sit outside,
build it with some good tie down fittings under the wings and then spend
the money for a good cockpit cover - maybe a complete airplane cover. You kit
will come with the new canopy latch which should make it easy to add a lock when
it is tied down.
As to question about re-sale value for a Lightning down the road, your guess
is as good as any ones. However here are some things to consider. The Lightning
has been advertised for maybe a year and a half and in that time frame
some 55 have already sold with 22 flying. To me that is a great response from
the flying public and I see no reason the Lightning would not remain a "top
seller". The fact that it can be completed so quickly, looks fantastic, and performs
really well on an economical fuel burn will insure it's continued success.
There really is no direct competition when you consider the "really quick"
quick build. And the completion rate in such a short time is probably some
new record for experimental aircraft. Add to that the economical operation and
as fuel prices continue up, it should become even more desirable. One other
thought, and that is in the light sport aircraft arena. Just this past Saturday
a dealer for one of the well known light sport
aircraft presented a program on his product to one of the EAA chapters I am in.
The price was well above that of a really nice Lightning (with dual EFISs)
completed at the factory, and of course, the performance was no where near that
of the Lightning. And it had one of those converted show mobile engines with
a gear reduction unit and coolant radiator to worry about. Of course the Lightning
has a real airplane engine that sounds like a real airplane. I kept
asking myself why would anyone buy one of these if they knew about the Lightning.
And that is probably just what is happening. Many buyers just don't do their
homework and research what is out there. They need to be at Sebring, Sun-N-Fun
and Oshkosh just to see what is really available in the market.
Well, enough from me. I hope others on the list will jump in here and possibly
relate their personal decision process and opinions on your questions.
Blue Skies,
Buz
---------------------------------
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: re-sale value |
Buzz- Very well said. As to the Lightning re-sale
value, I think we are all holding our breath waiting
to see how they do. There have been practically none
for sale, so there is really no precedent set yet.
After 10 or 20 sell, we'll get a good idea as to how
they keep their value. My guess is the first few sold
will be testing the waters and there will be some
great bargains to be had. Nick has said the early ones
will fly exactly like the current ones, the upgrades
that were made do not affect flying characteristics at
all. Also, kit and engine prices were low when the
plane came out, so an early Lightning could be a
really great bargain considering it is the exact same
as later model sans some minor modifications only.
PS.- I know Ryan @ greenlandings.com has his
Lightning for sale. I have heard his is a really great
plane and he's only asking 68 for it- you can't buy a
new kit, engine and basic avionics, paint and interior
for that now- so you are getting a proven Lightning at
cost without having to lift a finger.
Charles
--- Allan Maxwell <allanmaxe@yahoo.com> wrote:
> hi Buz this is Allan Maxwell I have bin looking at
> the stuff on the lightning list.If you could call me
> at 504-813-8134 the esqual owner in La. Or any one
> else with an Esqual call if you can tell me about
> egt you are experenceing
>
> N1BZRich@aol.com wrote: Hi Kyle,
> Welcome to the group. I think you will fine a
> great group of folks eager to help. I agree with
> your assessment that the Lightning will certainly be
> much quicker to build and cheaper to operate than
> one of the RV models. Even an RV quick build kit
> will take you much longer than a Lightning. If you
> use the builder assist program you will be flying in
> about six weeks total time.
> You asked for some opinions on the Lightning
> being stored outside and its possible resale value
> verses an RV. Well, let me start out by saying that
> everyone has their own opinion and they may or may
> not be worth exactly what you pay for them. In this
> case not even $.02. Having said that here are my
> thoughts:
> I am the kind of guy that really likes my
> airplanes and, other that when at Oshkosh and
> Sun-N-Fun, would never let them sit outside. So go
> to every airport in your area and get on their
> hangar waiting list. As an example, one of my
> hangars is over an hours drive from my home. Of
> course my other hangar is about 5 minutes away and I
> often drive the 5 then fly for 15 to get to my
> other airplane. But often I do drive over an hour
> to fly the one that is further away. So start the
> hangar quest now and get on everyone's waiting list.
> And ask if they will allow you to put up your own
> portable hangar such as the Port-a-port company.
> Now if your Lightning absolutely has to sit
> outside, I would be more worried about the avionics
> than the airframe. The Lightning is fiberglass and
> how long have fiberglass boats and Corvettes sat
> outside? So if it must sit outside, build it with
> some good tie down fittings under the wings and then
> spend the money for a good cockpit cover - maybe a
> complete airplane cover. You kit will come with the
> new canopy latch which should make it easy to add a
> lock when it is tied down.
> As to question about re-sale value for a
> Lightning down the road, your guess is as good as
> any ones. However here are some things to consider.
> The Lightning has been advertised for maybe a year
> and a half and in that time frame some 55 have
> already sold with 22 flying. To me that is a great
> response from the flying public and I see no reason
> the Lightning would not remain a "top seller". The
> fact that it can be completed so quickly, looks
> fantastic, and performs really well on an economical
> fuel burn will insure it's continued success. There
> really is no direct competition when you consider
> the "really quick" quick build. And the completion
> rate in such a short time is probably some new
> record for experimental aircraft. Add to that the
> economical operation and as fuel prices continue up,
> it should become even more desirable. One other
> thought, and that is in the light sport aircraft
> arena. Just this past Saturday a dealer for one of
> the well known light sport
> aircraft presented a program on his product to one
> of the EAA chapters I am in. The price was well
> above that of a really nice Lightning (with dual
> EFISs) completed at the factory, and of course, the
> performance was no where near that of the Lightning.
> And it had one of those converted show mobile
> engines with a gear reduction unit and coolant
> radiator to worry about. Of course the Lightning
> has a real airplane engine that sounds like a real
> airplane. I kept asking myself why would anyone
> buy one of these if they knew about the Lightning.
> And that is probably just what is happening. Many
> buyers just don't do their homework and research
> what is out there. They need to be at Sebring,
> Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh just to see what is really
> available in the market.
> Well, enough from me. I hope others on the
> list will jump in here and possibly relate their
> personal decision process and opinions on your
> questions.
> Blue Skies,
> Buz
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters.
> Watch the video on AOL Living.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with
> Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: new guy - a few questions |
Kyle,
Maybe my experience in obtaining a hanger will be useful. Back before I
built my Lightning, I had a Grumman Traveler parked outside on the ramp at my
home field. I was on the waiting list for one of the few T-hangers available. I
assumed there would be a very long wait, but I visited the Manager's office
just to check. To my surprise, he looked at me and said, without hesitation,
that there would be a vacancy at the end of the month which I could have. I was
surprised (understatement), and said so. His response was that I was a
regular customer, and many of the people on the list were unknowns. Why should
he
rent to them? I'll leave the name of my home field and FBO out to protect the
innocent.
I agree with Buz, get on the list for every field within reasonable range.
But get to know the decision makers.
Another possibility that you should ask about is the availability of space
in the larger hangers with the corporate's. You can fit a Lightning in under
the wing of a G4. Not as good as having your own space, but better than
outside.
Good Luck.
Earl Ferguson
Lightning #5
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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| Subject: | Re: new guy - a few questions |
Allen,
I doubt that my EGT numbers would be much help to you. My airplane and
engine are not the stock or standard set up. Because my exhaust is not
standard, I actually installed my probes a little closer than recommended so that
each of them could be about the same distance from the engine. The key is to
have them read fairly close for the cylinders on the left and the right by
adjusting the Bing Carb as has been previously discussed. You also want to see
them drop some as you go full throttle.
If you have not attended the Jabiru engine seminar at Shelbyville, you
really should do so. Once you go through the class you will have a better
understanding as to what you are looking for and how to make that happen. You
will be glad you attended. It is time well spent.
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 6
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Hello List,
I guess I was a little bored this afternoon being that the winds and
rainy weather had kept me on the ground since last Friday, so obviously I needed
to get some flying time. Even though the winds were almost a direct cross
at 11 gusting to 19 when I departed, I knew that 31BZ could handle that. I
had been wondering for some time how my automotive GPS would work in the
airplane. It is a Garmin Street Pilot (don't remember the model number) and I
use
it in both vehicles even though the truck has On Star. I specifically
ordered the 'Vette without On Star as I don't particularly want Big Brother to
know
how fast and how often I am tempted to put the "pedal to the metal" so to
speak.
Anyway, the auto GPS basically has two modes - a map mode that gives
speed and basic "letters" headings plus a map that you can determine the scale
of; and the second mode is where you tell it a specific address that you want
directions to and it will give turn by turn directions, both spoken and
written across the top of the map for the next turn. It also gives the "letters"
driving direction and instead of speed, an arrival time. I knew this would
be basically useless in the air, but figured it would be fun to see some
really high mph numbers in the map mode - that is if it would actually show
aircraft type speeds (it does).
Well, as I said in the subject line, just for grins, today was the day
to try it. First thing I noticed taxiing out was that it has a great diagram
of the airport; as the ramp, taxiways, and runway show up in great detail at
JGG. It showed my position as right on the narrow taxiway as I taxied out
for takeoff. Once on the runway it showed me right on the centerline, so it's
accuracy must be pretty good. Of course my taxi speeds was shown on the unit
while taxiing out.
Maybe now is a good time to go over how 31BZ is equipped so we can make
some comparisons as to speed while in the air. 31BZ has a dual Grand Rapids
EFIS with a built in GR GPS in one of the units. I also have a back up
Garmin 296 that is mounted on the center consol under the fuel selector. My GR
EFIS is the model that has the Synthetic Approach (SAP) mode that gives highway
in the sky steering to what ever runway you tell it to use at the airport
you are going to. Really a neat set up and now having flown numerous SAPs to
various airports, I am convinced it is much easier and accurate than any GCA
or ILS that I ever flew for real in fighters or in one of my previous
Bonanzas. All you really have to do is put the flight path vector inside of the
steering boxes that come at you from the approach end of the runway as shown on
the GR screen and if you do that it will take you right down to the flare.
Amazing thing. And a great way to impress someone when you take them for a
flight as most pilots have only heard of "highway in the sky" steering.
Well, this is getting long, but the auto Garmin works just fine in the
air in the map mode. It is kind of neat to be flying around the area with
speeds showing as high as 170 mph on the auto unit. I wonder what the little
munchkins (the little guys inside a GPS that make it work) inside the auto
Garmin thought when they saw they were "driving" that fast. The ceiling was
relatively low and it was slightly bumpy so I didn't want to go much faster.
Next time I try it, I want to see if it will go over 200, again, just for
grins. I did try it in the "go to an address mode" telling it to take me home,
but the thing kept having to re-calculate as I was not on or near a specific
road long enough at the speeds I was using. I am sure the munchkins inside
were really confused.
Bottom line: The auto GPS speed was always within 1 mph of the ground speed
shown on my Grand Rapid EFIS which I had set in the mph mode. Now that we
know that, I do see one use for an auto GPS in an airplane (particularly if
you don't yet have an aviation unit) and that would be when doing that part of
your flight testing to see how accurate your airspeed system is. You could
fly the standard calibration wind triangles marking down what the auto GPS
unit gives you for ground speeds as you hold a set indicated airspeed for all
three legs of the wind triangles. Of course the easy way is to fly formation
with someone that has a really accurate airspeed system, but until you do
check your system, you really have no idea just how accurate your airspeed system
(or systems) is (are). Everyone has calibrated their airspeed during your
phase one testing - haven't you? :-)
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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| Subject: | Re: new guy - a few questions |
Buz thanks for the reply I got mixed up I ment cht sorry allan
N1BZRich@aol.com wrote: Allen,
I doubt that my EGT numbers would be much help to you. My airplane and engine
are not the stock or standard set up. Because my exhaust is not standard,
I actually installed my probes a little closer than recommended so that each
of them could be about the same distance from the engine. The key is to have
them read fairly close for the cylinders on the left and the right by adjusting
the Bing Carb as has been previously discussed. You also want to see them
drop some as you go full throttle.
If you have not attended the Jabiru engine seminar at Shelbyville, you really
should do so. Once you go through the class you will have a better understanding
as to what you are looking for and how to make that happen. You will
be glad you attended. It is time well spent.
Blue Skies,
Buz
---------------------------------
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: new guy - a few questions |
In a message dated 2/20/2008 8:13:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
allanmaxe@yahoo.com writes:
I ment cht
OK, Allen, then here are some thoughts on CHTs:
Remember the key to good cylinder cooling on the jabiru powered
Lightning or Esqual is high pressure on top of the cylinders and low pressure
under
them. That makes sure the air flows from top to bottom through the cooling
fins and thus cools the cylinders. So make sure all air coming in through the
two nose bowl intakes can only go to the area above the cylinders. Close up
the area between the nose bowl and the Jabiru supplied fiberglass intake
ducts to insure all intake air only goes into the fiberglass ducts. On the
bottom cowl, to insure a lower pressure, the Lightning cowl has a lip or "air
dam"
that creates a lower pressure area inside the lower cowl. This also insures
the cooling air moves from top to bottom. I don't remember if the Esqual
bottom cowl has that or not since my airplane is total Lightning from firewall
forward. So if the Esqual does not have a lip on the bottom cowl, make one
using fiberglass or even aluminum. Once both of these things are done, then you
can fine tune the CHTs for individual cylinders by adding small "deflectors"
inside the fiberglass ducts over the cylinder than needs more cooling.
Start with these "eyebrow shaped" deflectors (so they match up to the concave
shape of the inside of the ducts) being about three inches long by 3/8 inch
deep. They trim them down if they end up blocking too much air to the cylinder
behind them. On my set up I have two deflectors on each side over the middle
and aft cylinders. This "experimenting" is what home built aircraft is all
about - kind of trial and error.
I think the hottest cylinder that I ever see on N31BZ is around 320
during a climb out on a really hot 100 degree day here in Virginia. By the time
I am climbing through about 3000 feet the temp then starts back down from the
high of 320 or so. Cruise temps are all well below 300. So we know the
above will work.
As I mentioned in the previous e-mail. You really should attend the
Jabiru engine seminar. Certainly time and money well spent. You will not only
talk about this type of thing, but will get to actually see how the small
deflectors are glued inside the intake ducts.
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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| Subject: | Cylinder cooling |
In a message dated 2/20/2008 8:13:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
allanmaxe@yahoo.com writes:
I ment cht
OK, Allen, then here are some thoughts on CHTs:
Remember the key to good cylinder cooling on the jabiru powered
Lightning or Esqual is high pressure on top of the cylinders and low
pressure under them. That makes sure the air flows from top to bottom
through the cooling fins and thus cools the cylinders. So make sure all
air coming in through the two nose bowl intakes can only go to the area
above the cylinders. Close up the area between the nose bowl and the
Jabiru supplied fiberglass intake ducts to insure all intake air only
goes into the fiberglass ducts. On the bottom cowl, to insure a lower
pressure, the Lightning cowl has a lip or "air dam" that creates a lower
pressure area inside the lower cowl. This also insures the cooling air
moves from top to bottom. I don't remember if the Esqual bottom cowl
has that or not since my airplane is total Lightning from firewall
forward. So if the Esqual does not have a lip on the bottom cowl, make
one using fiberglass or even aluminum. Once both of these things are
done, then you can fine tune the CHTs for individual cylinders by adding
small "deflectors" inside the fiberglass ducts over the cylinder than
needs more cooling. Start with these "eyebrow shaped" deflectors (so
they match up to the concave shape of the inside of the ducts) being
about three inches long by 3/8 inch deep. They trim them down if they
end up blocking too much air to the cylinder behind them. On my set up
I have two deflectors on each side over the middle and aft cylinders.
This "experimenting" is what home built aircraft is all about - kind of
trial and error.
I think the hottest cylinder that I ever see on N31BZ is around 320
during a climb out on a really hot 100 degree day here in Virginia. By
the time I am climbing through about 3000 feet the temp then starts back
down from the high of 320 or so. Cruise temps are all well below 300.
So we know the above will work.
As I mentioned in the previous e-mail. You really should attend the
Jabiru engine seminar. Certainly time and money well spent. You will
not only talk about this type of thing, but will get to actually see how
the small deflectors are glued inside the intake ducts.
Blue Skies,
Buz
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Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
<http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598>
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