Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:16 AM - Re: Pre-test flight procedures (Jerry Van Heeswyk)
2. 10:47 AM - New trim system and pitch stability... (nick otterback)
3. 11:10 AM - New trim system (flylightning)
4. 11:47 AM - Re: Pre-test flight procedures (flylightning)
5. 11:57 AM - Re: Pre-test flight procedures (N1BZRich@aol.com)
6. 12:24 PM - test mail (flylightning)
7. 02:02 PM - Re: New trim system (N1BZRich@aol.com)
8. 02:52 PM - Re: New trim system and pitch stability... (Jim Langley)
9. 03:12 PM - Re: Pre-test flight procedures (Jerry Van Heeswyk)
10. 03:12 PM - Re: test mail (Daniel DW)
11. 03:28 PM - Re: Pre-test flight procedures (Jerry Van Heeswyk)
12. 03:59 PM - Looking for new canopy photos (Rv7flyer)
13. 04:55 PM - Re: New trim system and pitch stability... (flylightning)
14. 05:11 PM - Re: Pre-test flight procedures (Jim Langley)
15. 07:08 PM - thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff (N1BZRich@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pre-test flight procedures |
Buzz, I am just a couple of hours into phase 1 flight testing, so would
really like to see a reprint of your test procedures.
You seem to have considerable experience with the Jabiru 3300, and rumor
has it, had an experience similar to mine. I noticed on the first
extended flight of N62JV (kit #7) that my oil pressure was low during
cruise (40-45psi), and my EGTs were all in the 1400s. I have some work
to do the better isolate the EGT issues - plot all 6 cylinders at
various RPMs, pull carb heat to see if the richer mixture lowers the
temps, etc. Any thoughts on what I might do, other than rejet the carb?
I am not sure if the oil pressure is anything to worry about, but have
been told you placed washers behind the oil pressure relief spring to
increase your pressure. Any truth to this?
BTW, I have been so busy working and building I did not have a chance to
complement you on the newsletter. Great job!
Regards,
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: N1BZRich@aol.com
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Pre-test flight procedures
In a message dated 2/27/2008 7:38:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pequeajim@gmail.com writes:
Does anyone have an established set of procedures that apply to the
Lightning (before) you fly the aircraft?
Hi Jim,
I would make a couple of recommendations to answer your question
and add some suggestions for when you start phase 1 test flying. First,
take a look at the following FAA publications: FAR 21, FAR 91, and
especially FAA Advisory Circular 90-89A. Second, get in touch with an
EAA Flight Advisor and have him work with you (might even get you an
insurance discount). He will have a flight advisor handbook that will
spell out things to look at before the first flight and for the first
flight (to include specific check lists). If you can't find one near
you, I can work with you via e-mails and phone calls. I have done that
with quite a few folks for their first flights. Will you be making the
initial fight yourself?
One other thing, at the Lightning open house last September I
presented a program (power point) on test flying your homebuilt
aircraft. I left a file of that with the guys at SYI, plus they have
the specific test program I used for 31BZ that breaks down the 40 hours
into five different phases with step by step objectives for the entire
40 hours. I can send both if you are interested. Heck, I might even
publish the test program I developed for 31BZ in a future issue of the
Lightning newsletter.
Blue Skies,
Buz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
Message 2
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| Subject: | New trim system and pitch stability... |
To the Group,
Arion Aircraft has finished flight testing of the servo driven trim tab in the
elevator, more of a conventional trim system. Results were with out a doubt
outstanding and worth the effort.
We have had some comments that the aircraft was responsive in pitch and or lacked
the ability to be properly trimmed. The bungee trim system was designed to
be simple to build and to trim off control pressures in flight, it also did
good job of trimming airspeed although not always accurate due to the set up of
the bungees. We have designed a servo operated trim tab internally mounted in
the elevator. Using a ray allen servo and small push rod to drive a tab. I will
run thru the results for one or two of the airspeeds selected. We did a full
range of testing from 70mph up to 150mph IAS. The test were done in 10mph increments
and the same tests were run at each airspeed.
For a trimmed airspeed of 110 mph IAS hands off flight. If a pull was initiated
to 15 degrees above the horizon and power remained the same, than the stick
released , the aircraft would start to decelerate to 100 pitch over and continue
to 110 mph, after 15 seconds or so and a few pitch oscillations the aircraft
would continue at 110 mph IAS hands off as when started.
If at 110 mph IAS and a push of 15 degrees nose down was initiated with the power
constant and the stick released, the aircraft would accelerate some to 120
or so and begin a pitch up, again after a few oscillation the aircraft would
regain the trimmed speed and continue hands off on its way.
When trimmed for 110 mph IAS and a reduction in power made, the aircraft will
pitch down accelerate to 120 or so than begin to pitch back to 110, after a 15
sec or so the aircraft will find 110 mph IAS but in a glide as expected.
When trimmed for 110 mph IAS and power is applied, the aircraft will begin a
pitch up slowing to around 100 mph IAS before the nose drops to around 110 and
the aircraft continues in a climb at 110 mph IAS.
At higher airspeeds than 110 the aircraft did show all the same results except
that the correcting tendency was a bit slower but did happen as described above
and always came back to its trimmed configuration.
At speeds slower than 110 the recovery of the aircraft was quicker in all cases.
.
If trimmed for 110 mph IAS, any airspeed higher than 110 mph IAS required and
push of the stick to hold that airspeed, for 10 above it was about 3 lbs stick
force and 20 above about 5-7 lbs.
Any airspeed slower than 110mph IAS required a pull to maintain, speed of 10
or less were 3-5lbs stick force and speeds as slow as 30 less than trimmed requires
7-10lbs stick force.
Again this was performed at all airspeeds with the same results.
All airspeeds in the range were tested in the same manner as well as different
flight configurations with the same results as above.
As some know from reading this list and those few who have flown the prototype
aircraft, know the pitch forces to be light in that aircraft, the removal of
the bungee system has increased the pitch force required in this aircraft by
3lbs per g or so.this means that this stick feel Is heavier and the aircraft
less sensitive in pitch than before. I would expect the same results with the
kits as well.
The bungees as well as providing control pressure trim did give some stick assist
if you will that caused the aircraft to feel more sensitive than it is and
less stable than it actually is. The new trim gives good positive feed back
and controls pressures.
The end result of the new trim systems is that the aircraft is much easier to
trim, It will hold a trimmed airspeed much better and will be easier to fly on
long cross countries.
The pitch stability of the aircraft is positive both stick free and stick fixed
at all airspeeds. It shows good recovery tendency back to a trimmed speed after
a disruption in angle of attack, power, stick placement, ect
These tendencies were always inherent, the prototype does not have the longer
motor mount, the pitch geometry is not changed ( although if it was would only
heavy up the stick pressures not change these results) and is certainly at an
aft CG situation for flight testing. A CG movement forward will only increase
its ability to self correct or hold a trimmed airspeed. In other words the aircraft
was flown in the worst condition it could be and showed positive results.
The good flying qualities of the lightning with the bungee trim have only been
improved upon by the use of this more conventional trim system making it even
more a joy to fly..and believe me I had some fun while I was up there!
We are currently fitting the system to our 2008 demo and this will be at Sun
N Fun 08 for demos. The system is retrofit table to any lightning current or in
progress.
We also will be working on a price for the kit. Those who are building the aircraft
and have not flown, we will be working out an exchange for the old trim
motor as credit for the new trim kit if wanted, as it is also the flap motor
and can be used in other installations, this is only if the motor is new and
in unused condition and has not been flown
I am sure that many question will arise and some more about the flight testing
done, please post comments or email me or the group directly as to any questions
you have.
Nick Otterback
Research and Development
Arion Aircraft, LLC
---------------------------------
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To the Group,
Arion Aircraft has finished flight testing of the servo driven trim tab in
the elevator, more of a conventional trim system. Results were with out a
doubt outstanding and worth the effort.
We have had some comments that the aircraft was responsive in pitch and or
lacked the ability to be properly trimmed. The bungee trim system was
designed to be simple to build and to trim off control pressures in flight,
it also did good job of trimming airspeed although not always accurate due
to the set up of the bungees. We have designed a servo operated trim tab
internally mounted in the elevator. Using a ray allen servo and small push
rod to drive a tab. I will run thru the results for one or two of the
airspeeds selected. We did a full range of testing from 70mph up to 150mph
IAS. The test were done in 10mph increments and the same tests were run at
each airspeed.
For a trimmed airspeed of 110 mph IAS hands off flight. If a pull was
initiated to 15 degrees above the horizon and power remained the same, than
the stick released , the aircraft would start to decelerate to 100 pitch
over and continue to 110 mph, after 15 seconds or so and a few pitch
oscillations the aircraft would continue at 110 mph IAS hands off as when
started.
If at 110 mph IAS and a push of 15 degrees nose down was initiated with the
power constant and the stick released, the aircraft would accelerate some to
120 or so and begin a pitch up, again after a few oscillation the aircraft
would regain the trimmed speed and continue hands off on its way.
When trimmed for 110 mph IAS and a reduction in power made, the aircraft
will pitch down accelerate to 120 or so than begin to pitch back to 110,
after a 15 sec or so the aircraft will find 110 mph IAS but in a glide as
expected.
When trimmed for 110 mph IAS and power is applied, the aircraft will begin a
pitch up slowing to around 100 mph IAS before the nose drops to around 110
and the aircraft continues in a climb at 110 mph IAS.
At higher airspeeds than 110 the aircraft did show all the same results
except that the correcting tendency was a bit slower but did happen as
described above and always came back to its trimmed configuration.
At speeds slower than 110 the recovery of the aircraft was quicker in all
cases.
.
If trimmed for 110 mph IAS, any airspeed higher than 110 mph IAS required
and push of the stick to hold that airspeed, for 10 above it was about 3 lbs
stick force and 20 above about 5-7 lbs.
Any airspeed slower than 110mph IAS required a pull to maintain, speed of 10
or less were 3-5lbs stick force and speeds as slow as 30 less than trimmed
requires 7-10lbs stick force.
Again this was performed at all airspeeds with the same results.
All airspeeds in the range were tested in the same manner as well as
different flight configurations with the same results as above.
As some know from reading this list and those few who have flown the
prototype aircraft, know the pitch forces to be light in that aircraft, the
removal of the bungee system has increased the pitch force required in this
aircraft by 3lbs per g or so..this means that this stick feel Is heavier and
the aircraft less sensitive in pitch than before. I would expect the same
results with the kits as well.
The bungees as well as providing control pressure trim did give some stick
assist if you will that caused the aircraft to feel more sensitive than it
is and less stable than it actually is. The new trim gives good positive
feed back and controls pressures.
The end result of the new trim systems is that the aircraft is much easier
to trim, It will hold a trimmed airspeed much better and will be easier to
fly on long cross countries.
The pitch stability of the aircraft is positive both stick free and stick
fixed at all airspeeds. It shows good recovery tendency back to a trimmed
speed after a disruption in angle of attack, power, stick placement, ect
These tendencies were always inherent, the prototype does not have the
longer motor mount, the pitch geometry is not changed ( although if it was
would only heavy up the stick pressures not change these results) and is
certainly at an aft CG situation for flight testing. A CG movement forward
will only increase its ability to self correct or hold a trimmed airspeed.
In other words the aircraft was flown in the worst condition it could be and
showed positive results.
The good flying qualities of the lightning with the bungee trim have only
been improved upon by the use of this more conventional trim system making
it even more a joy to fly...and believe me I had some fun while I was up
there!
We are currently fitting the system to our 2008 demo and this will be at Sun
N Fun 08 for demos. The system is retrofit table to any lightning current or
in progress.
We also will be working on a price for the kit. Those who are building the
aircraft and have not flown, we will be working out an exchange for the old
trim motor as credit for the new trim kit if wanted, as it is also the flap
motor and can be used in other installations, this is only if the motor is
new and in unused condition and has not been flown..
I am sure that many question will arise and some more about the flight
testing done, please post comments or email me or the group directly as to
any questions you have...
Nick Otterback
Research and Development
Arion Aircraft, LLC
Message 4
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| Subject: | Pre-test flight procedures |
Jerry,
Egts might be 50 high but not bad and the oil pressure is perfect..So how
does she fly?
Nick
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Van
Heeswyk
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Pre-test flight procedures
Buzz, I am just a couple of hours into phase 1 flight testing, so would
really like to see a reprint of your test procedures.
You seem to have considerable experience with the Jabiru 3300, and rumor has
it, had an experience similar to mine. I noticed on the first extended
flight of N62JV (kit #7) that my oil pressure was low during cruise
(40-45psi), and my EGTs were all in the 1400s. I have some work to do the
better isolate the EGT issues - plot all 6 cylinders at various RPMs, pull
carb heat to see if the richer mixture lowers the temps, etc. Any thoughts
on what I might do, other than rejet the carb?
I am not sure if the oil pressure is anything to worry about, but have been
told you placed washers behind the oil pressure relief spring to increase
your pressure. Any truth to this?
BTW, I have been so busy working and building I did not have a chance to
complement you on the newsletter. Great job!
Regards,
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Pre-test flight procedures
In a message dated 2/27/2008 7:38:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pequeajim@gmail.com writes:
Does anyone have an established set of procedures that apply to the
Lightning (before) you fly the aircraft?
Hi Jim,
I would make a couple of recommendations to answer your question and add
some suggestions for when you start phase 1 test flying. First, take a look
at the following FAA publications: FAR 21, FAR 91, and especially FAA
Advisory Circular 90-89A. Second, get in touch with an EAA Flight Advisor
and have him work with you (might even get you an insurance discount). He
will have a flight advisor handbook that will spell out things to look at
before the first flight and for the first flight (to include specific check
lists). If you can't find one near you, I can work with you via e-mails and
phone calls. I have done that with quite a few folks for their first
flights. Will you be making the initial fight yourself?
One other thing, at the Lightning open house last September I presented
a program (power point) on test flying your homebuilt aircraft. I left a
file of that with the guys at SYI, plus they have the specific test program
I used for 31BZ that breaks down the 40 hours into five different phases
with step by step objectives for the entire 40 hours. I can send both if
you are interested. Heck, I might even publish the test program I developed
for 31BZ in a future issue of the Lightning newsletter.
Blue Skies,
Buz
_____
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch
<http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du
ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598> the video on AOL Living.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pre-test flight procedures |
Hi Jerry,
Congratulations on your first flight. I know you will enjoy the overall
test flying experience even though some of the repetitive test runs for the
performance numbers can get boring at times. I will attach the file that
shows the 40 hour test program I came up with for 31BZ. Actually I divided the
FAA's 40 hour Phase 1 flight test requirement into 5 individual phases that
each have specific objectives. You are welcome to modify and use it in any
way you want.
As to your oil pressure at 40 to 45 at cruise, I wouldn't worry too much
about it. Those numbers are within the engine manual specifics. However,
you can add washers (up to a total of 3) to the oil pressure relief valve to
raise the oil pressure. Take a look at the engine manual to see how this
works and how the parts go together. The extra washers (standard for an AN-4
bolt) go in first (there should be one in there already) and then the pressure
relief assembly goes in to be held in place by a "C" clip. Be sure the
"special concave modified" washer goes on the assembly just under the "C"
clip with the concave part toward the engine to fit over the assembly. The
pressure relief valve is found under the adapter for the oil cooler. It is all
spelled out in your engine manual.
By the way, I have also noticed that to some degree both oil pressure
and oil temp can change slightly based on how full you keep the oil sump. If
you keep it filled to near the top of the mark on the dip stick, the oil
pressure seems to be slightly less and temp slightly more. If you keep the oil
level near the middle of the dip stick range, the pressure is slightly higher
and the temp slightly lower. The 3300 has a relatively small total oil
quantity so I am assuming that this is why I see the above on my set up. Your
mileage may vary, but that is what I see, so I generally keep the oil quantity
adjusted to mid level on the dip stick.
As to EGTs, what you are seeing may be OK as well, because a lot of the
number you see will depend on exactly how far away from the engine you placed
the sensors. My exhaust system is a one of a kind, uses no muffler, and I
had to place them closer than called for due to the set up, so my numbers are
higher than most people see. One important thing to look for is that you see
them decrease as you go to full throttle. Another thing to remember is that
the Jabiru 3300 comes set up (jetted) for a much higher drag airframe and as
a result you will probably have to change jets based on the much faster
Lightning - also, any drag reduction efforts on your specific airplane and the
prop you run may also require jetting changes. It is trail and error, but the
guys at SYI or their dealers can point you in the right direction as to which
jets to change and the size to use.
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New trim system |
Nick,
Excellent write up and it sounds like the trim system changes you
designed have given just the flight results you were looking for. I look forward
to putting some more hours on the prototype to see (feel) the new trim system
in action. What was good will now be even better.
Some of you may wonder why Nick went to the trouble to re-design the
trim system on the Lightning when the original trim system worked as advertised
- meaning it allowed the pilot to trim the airplane for all phases of flight.
There really are several reasons that Nick went to the trouble to re-design
the pitch trim system on the Lightning. Here are my thoughts:
- First, although the original system worked well, it was a little too
"quick" or sensitive in that the pilot often "overshot" the trim setting that
was
needed to trim for hands off. What I mean by this is that when you were
activating the current electric trim system and when your hand on the stick felt
neutral pressure on the stick, by the time you let off the trim button, the
quick system would by pass what you really wanted. It often took several
adjustments, up and down, to get the feel you really wanted. It worked, but was
not perfect.
- Second, because the original trim system used a bungee connected to the
electric trim motor, the bungee over time would change it's strength or
elasticity, which in turn would give a different efficiency to the trim system.
Certainly something you could / would get used to, but again, not perfect.
- Third, again because of the design of the trim system which uses both a
bungee to help to pull on the elevator push/pull tube and a bungee attached to
the trim motor, what you really get is the two bungees working against each
other. This type of system, although very simple to build, is not always that
simple to operate or maintain (see 1 & 2 above), and as the bungees age they
change effectiveness. Thus you have to keep changing the size of the
bungees or replace them on a regular basis. Easy to do, but not perfect in that
it
adds to routine maintenance.
- And last, a bungee trim system like the Lightning's first design, tends to
make an airplane fly like it is neutrally stable (or even slightly negative)
in pitch stability. This in itself is not necessarily bad, but it does tend
to make the airplane more pitch sensitive which some pilots may or may not
like. It all depends on what you are used to. One other characteristic of a
system that either has or flies like is has a neutral pitch feel is that as
you change airspeed the trim does not change - at least not very much. That
probably feels strange to some, but an aerobatic pilot or fighter pilot that
is constantly changing airspeed while "doing their flying thing" will really
appreciate the fact that they are not constantly having to change trim.
However, to the cross country pilot, especially one without an auto pilot, it
can
really increase your work load because of the pitch sensitivity, and the
"always looking" for just the perfect trim setting. Again, what the Lightning
had was good, but not perfect.
The new trim system that Nick had designed addresses all of the above
and improves the flyability of the airplane because the trim system will now
give better feedback to the pilot and allow a more accurate setting at all
speeds. Besides operating better, it also weights less, so in my book that is
a
win / win situation. The fact that it can be added to currently flying
aircraft (if the pilot wants) is also a plus.
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
Message 8
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| Subject: | New trim system and pitch stability... |
Great news Nick!
Just a few questions that some other people may have also.
1. If this is an internally mounted servo, then how big a hole will I
need to cut in the elevator half to mount the servo, and for pushrod
clearance? My elevators and stab are already painted, but this can still be
done.
2. If a hole is cut, is it from the bottom side?
3. The actual trim tab; is it added to, or cut from the elevator
training edge?
Thanks again for presenting us with some nice options.
Jim!
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nick
otterback
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:58 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: New trim system and pitch stability...
To the Group,
Arion Aircraft has finished flight testing of the servo driven trim tab in
the elevator, more of a conventional trim system. Results were with out a
doubt outstanding and worth the effort.
We have had some comments that the aircraft was responsive in pitch and or
lacked the ability to be properly trimmed. The bungee trim system was
designed to be simple to build and to trim off control pressures in flight,
it also did good job of trimming airspeed although not always accurate due
to the set up of the bungees. We have designed a servo operated trim tab
internally mounted in the elevator. Using a ray allen servo and small push
rod to drive a tab. I will run thru the results for one or two of the
airspeeds selected. We did a full range of testing from 70mph up to 150mph
IAS. The test were done in 10mph increments and the same tests were run at
each airspeed.
For a trimmed airspeed of 110 mph IAS hands off flight. If a pull was
initiated to 15 degrees above the horizon and power remained the same, than
the stick released , the aircraft would start to decelerate to 100 pitch
over and continue to 110 mph, after 15 seconds or so and a few pitch
oscillations the aircraft would continue at 110 mph IAS hands off as when
started.
If at 110 mph IAS and a push of 15 degrees nose down was initiated with the
power constant and the stick released, the aircraft would accelerate some to
120 or so and begin a pitch up, again after a few oscillation the aircraft
would regain the trimmed speed and continue hands off on its way.
When trimmed for 110 mph IAS and a reduction in power made, the aircraft
will pitch down accelerate to 120 or so than begin to pitch back to 110,
after a 15 sec or so the aircraft will find 110 mph IAS but in a glide as
expected.
When trimmed for 110 mph IAS and power is applied, the aircraft will begin a
pitch up slowing to around 100 mph IAS before the nose drops to around 110
and the aircraft continues in a climb at 110 mph IAS.
At higher airspeeds than 110 the aircraft did show all the same results
except that the correcting tendency was a bit slower but did happen as
described above and always came back to its trimmed configuration.
At speeds slower than 110 the recovery of the aircraft was quicker in all
cases.
.
If trimmed for 110 mph IAS, any airspeed higher than 110 mph IAS required
and push of the stick to hold that airspeed, for 10 above it was about 3 lbs
stick force and 20 above about 5-7 lbs.
Any airspeed slower than 110mph IAS required a pull to maintain, speed of 10
or less were 3-5lbs stick force and speeds as slow as 30 less than trimmed
requires 7-10lbs stick force.
Again this was performed at all airspeeds with the same results.
All airspeeds in the range were tested in the same manner as well as
different flight configurations with the same results as above.
As some know from reading this list and those few who have flown the
prototype aircraft, know the pitch forces to be light in that aircraft, the
removal of the bungee system has increased the pitch force required in this
aircraft by 3lbs per g or so..this means that this stick feel Is heavier and
the aircraft less sensitive in pitch than before. I would expect the same
results with the kits as well.
The bungees as well as providing control pressure trim did give some stick
assist if you will that caused the aircraft to feel more sensitive than it
is and less stable than it actually is. The new trim gives good positive
feed back and controls pressures.
The end result of the new trim systems is that the aircraft is much easier
to trim, It will hold a trimmed airspeed much better and will be easier to
fly on long cross countries.
The pitch stability of the aircraft is positive both stick free and stick
fixed at all airspeeds. It shows good recovery tendency back to a trimmed
speed after a disruption in angle of attack, power, stick placement, ect
These tendencies were always inherent, the prototype does not have the
longer motor mount, the pitch geometry is not changed ( although if it was
would only heavy up the stick pressures not change these results) and is
certainly at an aft CG situation for flight testing. A CG movement forward
will only increase its ability to self correct or hold a trimmed airspeed.
In other words the aircraft was flown in the worst condition it could be and
showed positive results.
The good flying qualities of the lightning with the bungee trim have only
been improved upon by the use of this more conventional trim system making
it even more a joy to fly...and believe me I had some fun while I was up
there!
We are currently fitting the system to our 2008 demo and this will be at Sun
N Fun 08 for demos. The system is retrofit table to any lightning current or
in progress.
We also will be working on a price for the kit. Those who are building the
aircraft and have not flown, we will be working out an exchange for the old
trim motor as credit for the new trim kit if wanted, as it is also the flap
motor and can be used in other installations, this is only if the motor is
new and in unused condition and has not been flown..
I am sure that many question will arise and some more about the flight
testing done, please post comments or email me or the group directly as to
any questions you have...
Nick Otterback
Research and Development
Arion Aircraft, LLC
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Pre-test flight procedures |
Buzz, thanks very much for the quick replay, and the reassurances that I
have probably not harmed my engine. Nick replied, too, and he thinks the
oil pressure is fine. I will probably leave it alone until the first oil
change, and add a washer at that time. My EGTs do drop about 75 degrees
at full throttle. I was just concerned it was not going over-lean.
Sounds like I am OK, so will continue my flight testing. Thanks, also,
for resending your testing procedures. I will put them to good use.
I have been inspired by your frequent and positive contributions. Thanks
for all of the efforts.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: N1BZRich@aol.com
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Pre-test flight procedures
Hi Jerry,
Congratulations on your first flight. I know you will enjoy the
overall test flying experience even though some of the repetitive test
runs for the performance numbers can get boring at times. I will attach
the file that shows the 40 hour test program I came up with for 31BZ.
Actually I divided the FAA's 40 hour Phase 1 flight test requirement
into 5 individual phases that each have specific objectives. You are
welcome to modify and use it in any way you want.
As to your oil pressure at 40 to 45 at cruise, I wouldn't worry
too much about it. Those numbers are within the engine manual
specifics. However, you can add washers (up to a total of 3) to the oil
pressure relief valve to raise the oil pressure. Take a look at the
engine manual to see how this works and how the parts go together. The
extra washers (standard for an AN-4 bolt) go in first (there should be
one in there already) and then the pressure relief assembly goes in to
be held in place by a "C" clip. Be sure the
"special concave modified" washer goes on the assembly just under the
"C" clip with the concave part toward the engine to fit over the
assembly. The pressure relief valve is found under the adapter for the
oil cooler. It is all spelled out in your engine manual.
By the way, I have also noticed that to some degree both oil
pressure and oil temp can change slightly based on how full you keep the
oil sump. If you keep it filled to near the top of the mark on the dip
stick, the oil pressure seems to be slightly less and temp slightly
more. If you keep the oil level near the middle of the dip stick range,
the pressure is slightly higher and the temp slightly lower. The 3300
has a relatively small total oil quantity so I am assuming that this is
why I see the above on my set up. Your mileage may vary, but that is
what I see, so I generally keep the oil quantity adjusted to mid level
on the dip stick.
As to EGTs, what you are seeing may be OK as well, because a lot
of the number you see will depend on exactly how far away from the
engine you placed the sensors. My exhaust system is a one of a kind,
uses no muffler, and I had to place them closer than called for due to
the set up, so my numbers are higher than most people see. One
important thing to look for is that you see them decrease as you go to
full throttle. Another thing to remember is that the Jabiru 3300 comes
set up (jetted) for a much higher drag airframe and as a result you will
probably have to change jets based on the much faster Lightning - also,
any drag reduction efforts on your specific airplane and the prop you
run may also require jetting changes. It is trail and error, but the
guys at SYI or their dealers can point you in the right direction as to
which jets to change and the size to use.
Blue Skies,
Buz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
Message 10
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Test mail arrived...
From: info@flylightning.netTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Lightni
ng-List: test mailDate: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:39:06 -0600
_________________________________________________________________
Deel gratis al je leukste eindejaarsmomenten...
http://get.live.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Pre-test flight procedures |
Nick, my EGTs were not too alarming, I just wanted to get the opinions
of Jabiru pilots with more hours than I. With a Lyc, I just would have
richened the mixture a little, so, I am getting used to flying without a
mixture control. I think the Lightning flies great, but your note on the
new trim system was timely. My airplane is a little more sensitive in
pitch than I prefer, but I'm sure I can get used to it. I need to fine
tune the bungees, anyway. I can not currently get enough up trim to
fully offset the down pitch moment with the flaps down 40 degrees.
I really appreciate the time you spent looking N62JV over, and logging
the initial flight. It sure helped me sleep better the night before my
first flight. It is over at Ryan Field, now, and I am having a ball
flying it, tweaking those myriad little things that all need to be
adjusted, and showing it off to all of my flying buddies. The most
frequent comment is "This can't be light sport - It looks to sleek."
Thanks for the great design, and the help getting her airborne. See you
in Oshkosh!
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: flylightning
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 9:09 AM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Pre-test flight procedures
Jerry,
Egts might be 50 high but not bad and the oil pressure is perfect..So
how does she fly?
Nick
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Van Heeswyk
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:09 AM
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Pre-test flight procedures
Buzz, I am just a couple of hours into phase 1 flight testing, so
would really like to see a reprint of your test procedures.
You seem to have considerable experience with the Jabiru 3300, and
rumor has it, had an experience similar to mine. I noticed on the first
extended flight of N62JV (kit #7) that my oil pressure was low during
cruise (40-45psi), and my EGTs were all in the 1400s. I have some work
to do the better isolate the EGT issues - plot all 6 cylinders at
various RPMs, pull carb heat to see if the richer mixture lowers the
temps, etc. Any thoughts on what I might do, other than rejet the carb?
I am not sure if the oil pressure is anything to worry about, but have
been told you placed washers behind the oil pressure relief spring to
increase your pressure. Any truth to this?
BTW, I have been so busy working and building I did not have a chance
to complement you on the newsletter. Great job!
Regards,
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: N1BZRich@aol.com
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Pre-test flight procedures
In a message dated 2/27/2008 7:38:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pequeajim@gmail.com writes:
Does anyone have an established set of procedures that apply to
the Lightning (before) you fly the aircraft?
Hi Jim,
I would make a couple of recommendations to answer your question
and add some suggestions for when you start phase 1 test flying. First,
take a look at the following FAA publications: FAR 21, FAR 91, and
especially FAA Advisory Circular 90-89A. Second, get in touch with an
EAA Flight Advisor and have him work with you (might even get you an
insurance discount). He will have a flight advisor handbook that will
spell out things to look at before the first flight and for the first
flight (to include specific check lists). If you can't find one near
you, I can work with you via e-mails and phone calls. I have done that
with quite a few folks for their first flights. Will you be making the
initial fight yourself?
One other thing, at the Lightning open house last September I
presented a program (power point) on test flying your homebuilt
aircraft. I left a file of that with the guys at SYI, plus they have
the specific test program I used for 31BZ that breaks down the 40 hours
into five different phases with step by step objectives for the entire
40 hours. I can send both if you are interested. Heck, I might even
publish the test program I developed for 31BZ in a future issue of the
Lightning newsletter.
Blue Skies,
Buz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on
AOL Living.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 12
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| Subject: | Looking for new canopy photos |
I want to see the design of the new style canopy latch. Does anyone have a set
of photos?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166979#166979
Message 13
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| Subject: | New trim system and pitch stability... |
Jim,
I guess it is the type of builder you are. It will be a tab added o the rear
of the elevator ,but when finished does not look bad at all, if one wanted
you could make it flush using the same dimensions that the tab we are
providing is..The hole is in the bottom of the elevator and about 3.5 by 3.5
and than make a flush cover for it...
Nick
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: New trim system and pitch stability...
Great news Nick!
Just a few questions that some other people may have also.
1. If this is an internally mounted servo, then how big a hole will I
need to cut in the elevator half to mount the servo, and for pushrod
clearance? My elevators and stab are already painted, but this can still be
done.
2. If a hole is cut, is it from the bottom side?
3. The actual trim tab; is it added to, or cut from the elevator
training edge?
Thanks again for presenting us with some nice options.
Jim!
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nick
otterback
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:58 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: New trim system and pitch stability...
To the Group,
Arion Aircraft has finished flight testing of the servo driven trim tab in
the elevator, more of a conventional trim system. Results were with out a
doubt outstanding and worth the effort.
We have had some comments that the aircraft was responsive in pitch and or
lacked the ability to be properly trimmed. The bungee trim system was
designed to be simple to build and to trim off control pressures in flight,
it also did good job of trimming airspeed although not always accurate due
to the set up of the bungees. We have designed a servo operated trim tab
internally mounted in the elevator. Using a ray allen servo and small push
rod to drive a tab. I will run thru the results for one or two of the
airspeeds selected. We did a full range of testing from 70mph up to 150mph
IAS. The test were done in 10mph increments and the same tests were run at
each airspeed.
For a trimmed airspeed of 110 mph IAS hands off flight. If a pull was
initiated to 15 degrees above the horizon and power remained the same, than
the stick released , the aircraft would start to decelerate to 100 pitch
over and continue to 110 mph, after 15 seconds or so and a few pitch
oscillations the aircraft would continue at 110 mph IAS hands off as when
started.
If at 110 mph IAS and a push of 15 degrees nose down was initiated with the
power constant and the stick released, the aircraft would accelerate some to
120 or so and begin a pitch up, again after a few oscillation the aircraft
would regain the trimmed speed and continue hands off on its way.
When trimmed for 110 mph IAS and a reduction in power made, the aircraft
will pitch down accelerate to 120 or so than begin to pitch back to 110,
after a 15 sec or so the aircraft will find 110 mph IAS but in a glide as
expected.
When trimmed for 110 mph IAS and power is applied, the aircraft will begin a
pitch up slowing to around 100 mph IAS before the nose drops to around 110
and the aircraft continues in a climb at 110 mph IAS.
At higher airspeeds than 110 the aircraft did show all the same results
except that the correcting tendency was a bit slower but did happen as
described above and always came back to its trimmed configuration.
At speeds slower than 110 the recovery of the aircraft was quicker in all
cases.
.
If trimmed for 110 mph IAS, any airspeed higher than 110 mph IAS required
and push of the stick to hold that airspeed, for 10 above it was about 3 lbs
stick force and 20 above about 5-7 lbs.
Any airspeed slower than 110mph IAS required a pull to maintain, speed of 10
or less were 3-5lbs stick force and speeds as slow as 30 less than trimmed
requires 7-10lbs stick force.
Again this was performed at all airspeeds with the same results.
All airspeeds in the range were tested in the same manner as well as
different flight configurations with the same results as above.
As some know from reading this list and those few who have flown the
prototype aircraft, know the pitch forces to be light in that aircraft, the
removal of the bungee system has increased the pitch force required in this
aircraft by 3lbs per g or so..this means that this stick feel Is heavier and
the aircraft less sensitive in pitch than before. I would expect the same
results with the kits as well.
The bungees as well as providing control pressure trim did give some stick
assist if you will that caused the aircraft to feel more sensitive than it
is and less stable than it actually is. The new trim gives good positive
feed back and controls pressures.
The end result of the new trim systems is that the aircraft is much easier
to trim, It will hold a trimmed airspeed much better and will be easier to
fly on long cross countries.
The pitch stability of the aircraft is positive both stick free and stick
fixed at all airspeeds. It shows good recovery tendency back to a trimmed
speed after a disruption in angle of attack, power, stick placement, ect
These tendencies were always inherent, the prototype does not have the
longer motor mount, the pitch geometry is not changed ( although if it was
would only heavy up the stick pressures not change these results) and is
certainly at an aft CG situation for flight testing. A CG movement forward
will only increase its ability to self correct or hold a trimmed airspeed.
In other words the aircraft was flown in the worst condition it could be and
showed positive results.
The good flying qualities of the lightning with the bungee trim have only
been improved upon by the use of this more conventional trim system making
it even more a joy to fly...and believe me I had some fun while I was up
there!
We are currently fitting the system to our 2008 demo and this will be at Sun
N Fun 08 for demos. The system is retrofit table to any lightning current or
in progress.
We also will be working on a price for the kit. Those who are building the
aircraft and have not flown, we will be working out an exchange for the old
trim motor as credit for the new trim kit if wanted, as it is also the flap
motor and can be used in other installations, this is only if the motor is
new and in unused condition and has not been flown..
I am sure that many question will arise and some more about the flight
testing done, please post comments or email me or the group directly as to
any questions you have...
Nick Otterback
Research and Development
Arion Aircraft, LLC
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 14
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| Subject: | Pre-test flight procedures |
Nicely said Jerry.
I think we all feel this way about Buz, let's not tell him too much tho, you
know those ex. Jet jocks get all mushy when you say nice things about them.
(grin)
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Van
Heeswyk
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Pre-test flight procedures
Buzz, thanks very much for the quick replay, and the reassurances that I
have probably not harmed my engine. Nick replied, too, and he thinks the oil
pressure is fine. I will probably leave it alone until the first oil change,
and add a washer at that time. My EGTs do drop about 75 degrees at full
throttle. I was just concerned it was not going over-lean. Sounds like I am
OK, so will continue my flight testing. Thanks, also, for resending your
testing procedures. I will put them to good use.
I have been inspired by your frequent and positive contributions. Thanks for
all of the efforts.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Pre-test flight procedures
Hi Jerry,
Congratulations on your first flight. I know you will enjoy the overall
test flying experience even though some of the repetitive test runs for the
performance numbers can get boring at times. I will attach the file that
shows the 40 hour test program I came up with for 31BZ. Actually I divided
the FAA's 40 hour Phase 1 flight test requirement into 5 individual phases
that each have specific objectives. You are welcome to modify and use it in
any way you want.
As to your oil pressure at 40 to 45 at cruise, I wouldn't worry too much
about it. Those numbers are within the engine manual specifics. However,
you can add washers (up to a total of 3) to the oil pressure relief valve to
raise the oil pressure. Take a look at the engine manual to see how this
works and how the parts go together. The extra washers (standard for an
AN-4 bolt) go in first (there should be one in there already) and then the
pressure relief assembly goes in to be held in place by a "C" clip. Be sure
the
"special concave modified" washer goes on the assembly just under the "C"
clip with the concave part toward the engine to fit over the assembly. The
pressure relief valve is found under the adapter for the oil cooler. It is
all spelled out in your engine manual.
By the way, I have also noticed that to some degree both oil pressure
and oil temp can change slightly based on how full you keep the oil sump.
If you keep it filled to near the top of the mark on the dip stick, the oil
pressure seems to be slightly less and temp slightly more. If you keep the
oil level near the middle of the dip stick range, the pressure is slightly
higher and the temp slightly lower. The 3300 has a relatively small total
oil quantity so I am assuming that this is why I see the above on my set up.
Your mileage may vary, but that is what I see, so I generally keep the oil
quantity adjusted to mid level on the dip stick.
As to EGTs, what you are seeing may be OK as well, because a lot of the
number you see will depend on exactly how far away from the engine you
placed the sensors. My exhaust system is a one of a kind, uses no muffler,
and I had to place them closer than called for due to the set up, so my
numbers are higher than most people see. One important thing to look for is
that you see them decrease as you go to full throttle. Another thing to
remember is that the Jabiru 3300 comes set up (jetted) for a much higher
drag airframe and as a result you will probably have to change jets based on
the much faster Lightning - also, any drag reduction efforts on your
specific airplane and the prop you run may also require jetting changes. It
is trail and error, but the guys at SYI or their dealers can point you in
the right direction as to which jets to change and the size to use.
Blue Skies,
Buz
_____
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch
<http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du
ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598> the video on AOL Living.
Message 15
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| Subject: | thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff |
Jim and Jerry,
I appreciate the kind words of support. I am just trying to "give back"
to aviation because it has meant so much to me for the last forty some years
that I have had my tickets. So if I think I have something in my "clue bag"
or my "bag of tricks" that might be useful to others, I will gladly share it.
Although flying fighters in the Air Force for 28 years provided my "pay
check", it was also a love; but I never did tell them that I would have gladly
done it for free. And the entire time I was flying in the USAF, on the
weekends I would be at the local small airport flying general and/or sport aviation
airplanes. Heck, I built the Pitts while I was instructing in the F-4 at
Luke and flew it for the next 29 years. Since 1974 I have been continuously
active in EAA.
When I happened onto the SYI group some years ago, I had an immediate
feeling that they were onto something great. They were all EAA members and
were striving to help others achieve their aviation dreams. What could be
better than that. It really is a great story. I think that in the next issue
of
the Lightning Newsletter I might share some of the early Esqual / Lightning
history - kind of "how it all started" and "how they got to where they are
today". Heck, if you really want to look at things from a historic stand point,
all of you current Lightning owners and builders are part of the "history of
the Lightning". And to that end, I would ask all of you to send something
directly to me to share in the newsletter. Such things as how you decided on
the Lightning, how the build went, and your thoughts after flying your "self
created aerial art piece". Help me out here, I need some ammo for upcoming
issues of the newsletter.
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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