Lightning-List Digest Archive

Sat 03/01/08


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 10:49 AM - Pilots Background (Johnny Thompson)
     2. 01:46 PM - Today I fitted both wings for the first time. (Colin J. Kennedy)
     3. 01:58 PM - Re: Pilots Background (Jim Langley)
     4. 02:23 PM - Re: Pilots Background (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com)
     5. 02:48 PM - rudder travel (jeynon)
     6. 02:57 PM - Re: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff (Jerry Van Heeswyk)
     7. 03:52 PM - Re: Pilots Background (Jerry Van Heeswyk)
     8. 04:06 PM - Re: Pilots Background (Jim Langley)
     9. 04:13 PM - Re: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff (N1BZRich@aol.com)
    10. 05:40 PM - Re: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff (Jerry Van Heeswyk)
    11. 06:18 PM - Re: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff (JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS)
    12. 07:04 PM - Re: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff (Jerry Van Heeswyk)
    13. 11:03 PM - Official Lightning-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
    14. 11:05 PM - Official Lightning-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 10:49:46 AM PST US
    From: "Johnny Thompson" <14az@mysprocketmail.com>
    Subject: Pilots Background
    The reply that Buz gave about his flying experience makes me think it would be nice to have everyone send in a message about their aviation background. I have been wondering how many of us are ex military pilots or crewmen. I don't know if we should use space on matronics.com and just send it to the newsletter and let Buz put together an owners section. Me, I like to be identified with the AH1G Cobra as my #1 favorite aircraft. What is yours? Johnny Thompson N8WN ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Lightning-List: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff Jim and Jerry, I appreciate the kind words of support. I am just trying to "give back" to aviation because it has meant so much to me for the last forty some years that I have had my tickets. So if I think I have something in my "clue bag" or my "bag of tricks" that might be useful to others, I will gladly share it. Although flying fighters in the Air Force for 28 years provided my "pay check", it was also a love; but I never did tell them that I would have gladly done it for free. And the entire time I was flying in the USAF, on the weekends I would be at the local small airport flying general and/or sport aviation airplanes. Heck, I built the Pitts while I was instructing in the F-4 at Luke and flew it for the next 29 years. Since 1974 I have been continuously active in EAA. When I happened onto the SYI group some years ago, I had an immediate feeling that they were onto something great. They were all EAA members and were striving to help others achieve their aviation dreams. What could be better than that. It really is a great story. I think that in the next issue of the Lightning Newsletter I might share some of the early Esqual / Lightning history - kind of "how it all started" and "how they got to where they are today". Heck, if you really want to look at things from a historic stand point, all of you current Lightning owners and builders are part of the "history of the Lightning". And to that end, I would ask all of you to send something directly to me to share in the newsletter. Such things as how you decided on the Lightning, how the build went, and your thoughts after flying your "self created aerial art piece". Help me out here, I need some ammo for upcoming issues of the newsletter. Blue Skies, Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:46:02 PM PST US
    From: "Colin J. Kennedy" <cjk129@cox.net>
    Subject: Today I fitted both wings for the first time.
    Today I fitted both wings for the first time. I have not put the spar bolts in yet, but both wings are fully home against the wing roots and can be rotated to line up with the wing roots. I had to take each wing out again just once, to do some filing on the rectangular hole in the wing root for the spars, to get them fully home. The next step is to get the spar bolts in and then see if I can still line the wings up with the wing roots and set the angle of incidence bolts. I am using every inch of the diagonal distance across my garage :-) Colin K. OK Lightning # 52 under construction. http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken


    Message 3


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    Time: 01:58:06 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    Subject: Pilots Background
    You can call me Jim, or you can call me pequeajim.. Uhhh, ok, well, I come from a Military family, everyone except my Mom and I were involved in the service, and we span three wars, and some conflicts. $ - WWII Vet *- Korean War Vet ! -Vietnam War Vet Mother - Riveter for Boeing during WWII, (B-29) Father - $US Coast Guard (officer on 83 foot sub hunter in North Atlantic) Four Sisters (from oldest to youngest), *Navy, *Air Force, National Guard, & !Navy Two Brothers, *!Air Force (F-86/F4), !Navy (Shark Class Sub) (Of them, who flys. Myself, brother, and one sister). Brother is disabled and sister has passed away, so I'm the only one now. My flying started about 25 years ago, and then got put on hold in the beginning of my pilot training when they closed down the airport that I was flying out of. Then we started having kids, and well, you can guess the rest. I finally picked it back up at 49 and passed my check ride that same year. I have about 160+ hours at this point. Every time I see jet fighter fly over, I am a little envious. Jim! From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Johnny Thompson Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 1:09 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Pilots Background The reply that Buz gave about his flying experience makes me think it would be nice to have everyone send in a message about their aviation background. I have been wondering how many of us are ex military pilots or crewmen. I don't know if we should use space on matronics.com and just send it to the newsletter and let Buz put together an owners section. Me, I like to be identified with the AH1G Cobra as my #1 favorite aircraft. What is yours? Johnny Thompson N8WN ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Lightning-List: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff Jim and Jerry, I appreciate the kind words of support. I am just trying to "give back" to aviation because it has meant so much to me for the last forty some years that I have had my tickets. So if I think I have something in my "clue bag" or my "bag of tricks" that might be useful to others, I will gladly share it. Although flying fighters in the Air Force for 28 years provided my "pay check", it was also a love; but I never did tell them that I would have gladly done it for free. And the entire time I was flying in the USAF, on the weekends I would be at the local small airport flying general and/or sport aviation airplanes. Heck, I built the Pitts while I was instructing in the F-4 at Luke and flew it for the next 29 years. Since 1974 I have been continuously active in EAA. When I happened onto the SYI group some years ago, I had an immediate feeling that they were onto something great. They were all EAA members and were striving to help others achieve their aviation dreams. What could be better than that. It really is a great story. I think that in the next issue of the Lightning Newsletter I might share some of the early Esqual / Lightning history - kind of "how it all started" and "how they got to where they are today". Heck, if you really want to look at things from a historic stand point, all of you current Lightning owners and builders are part of the "history of the Lightning". And to that end, I would ask all of you to send something directly to me to share in the newsletter. Such things as how you decided on the Lightning, how the build went, and your thoughts after flying your "self created aerial art piece". Help me out here, I need some ammo for upcoming issues of the newsletter. Blue Skies, Buz _____ Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch <http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598> the video on AOL Living. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 4


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    Time: 02:23:54 PM PST US
    From: IFLYSMODEL@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Pilots Background
    Hey Johnny: I let my e-mail address state which my favorite airplane is. I have owned 6 V tail Bonanzas over the last 40 years, and my favorite is the S-model. I have around 3500 helicopter hours. and got to fly a lot of different airplanes in the navy (26 years+) especially at the Naval Air Test Center. I have about 2500 hours in Lear and Falcon Jets, over 3500 hours of Bonanza time, and still feel that the S-model Bonanza is hard to beat. I chose the Lightning because it has light control forces, flies like an airplane should, and I can build one with the help of the guys at SYI with a new Jabiru engine. I will have a new airplane for the first time in my life, one that I really can not afford, but we only live once. Lynn Nelsen **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


    Message 5


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    Time: 02:48:04 PM PST US
    Subject: rudder travel
    From: "jeynon" <jeynon2@verizon.net>
    Could anyone tell me how much rudder travel we should have? I just installed the new rear elevator bell crank and put the rudder back on. When the rudder reaches the end of its travel, it hits the bell crank, which I assume it is supposed to do, but how much the rudder travels depends on how far fore or aft the bell crank was installed on the elevators. The manual gives travel limits for every control surface except the elevator. I would hate to limit my cross wind landing ability or not be able to recover from a spin. Thanks in advance. John Eynon Lightning kit #53 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167145#167145


    Message 6


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    Time: 02:57:48 PM PST US
    From: "Jerry Van Heeswyk" <vanheeswyk@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff
    Buz, and other fellow builders. I have a problem I have not run across in my two years of semi-lurking on this site. This is either really strange, or I was doing the installation too late at night. My fuel gauges (Grand Rapids EIS driven by Princeton sending units) do not work properly. I was not too concerned on the initial flights because they were short, and I always visually check fuel during pre-flight. However, as my flight testing proceeds, I am planning longer flights. It is really comforting to know you have enough fuel to get you home. Here's the problem - My fuel levels are expected to display on the EIS AUX1 and AUX2 screens. The EIS is configured to show 11 gallons when the tanks are full, and show empty when they reach 2 gallons. Instead, they show 19.5 in the left tank, and 201 in the right tank (I have only checked them with full tanks). I guess the good news is that they are so far off, I know they are wrong. If they were just off by a little, it might get me into trouble. I have reconfigured the sending units twice, and the EIS several times. No change. I did not have instructions when I installed and wired the sending units, but it seemed pretty intuitive. There are three wires; black, red, and yellow. I wired red to +12vdc, black to ground, and assumed yellow must be the signal wire to the EIS. Any ideas out there in Lightning-Land? Was I brain-dead when I did the install, or just really unlucky? Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Lightning-List: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff Jim and Jerry, I appreciate the kind words of support. I am just trying to "give back" to aviation because it has meant so much to me for the last forty some years that I have had my tickets. So if I think I have something in my "clue bag" or my "bag of tricks" that might be useful to others, I will gladly share it. Although flying fighters in the Air Force for 28 years provided my "pay check", it was also a love; but I never did tell them that I would have gladly done it for free. And the entire time I was flying in the USAF, on the weekends I would be at the local small airport flying general and/or sport aviation airplanes. Heck, I built the Pitts while I was instructing in the F-4 at Luke and flew it for the next 29 years. Since 1974 I have been continuously active in EAA. When I happened onto the SYI group some years ago, I had an immediate feeling that they were onto something great. They were all EAA members and were striving to help others achieve their aviation dreams. What could be better than that. It really is a great story. I think that in the next issue of the Lightning Newsletter I might share some of the early Esqual / Lightning history - kind of "how it all started" and "how they got to where they are today". Heck, if you really want to look at things from a historic stand point, all of you current Lightning owners and builders are part of the "history of the Lightning". And to that end, I would ask all of you to send something directly to me to share in the newsletter. Such things as how you decided on the Lightning, how the build went, and your thoughts after flying your "self created aerial art piece". Help me out here, I need some ammo for upcoming issues of the newsletter. Blue Skies, Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.


    Message 7


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    Time: 03:52:32 PM PST US
    From: "Jerry Van Heeswyk" <vanheeswyk@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Pilots Background
    My background is not all that unique, but I was never in the military. It must be great to get paid for doing something you love. The genesis of my passion was building ten-cent Comet stick and tissue models when I was about 10 years old. I progressed though rubber band engines, to glo engines to gas engines, free-flight to R/C, and 5oz airplanes to 50lb airplanes. Many of the early birds didn't fly (logged one take off, and no landings), but the passion never died. I designed a few large models of homebuilt aircraft, wrote some articles for the model magazines, and sold plans. About 25 years ago, I designed and built a 1/3 size model of my next door neighbors Jodel F12 homebuilt. We became good friends, he made me an offer I could not refuse, and the rest is history. I got my ticket in that Jodel on July 28th, 1984, and at 5:00am the next morning was on my way to Oshkosh. I don't think my adrenalin level has returned to normal, since. I scratch built a Bakeng Duce, which I flew for almost a decade until I had some medical issues. I thought my flying days were over. I flew commercial for one last Oshkosh visit, where I learned about Light Sport, and checked out the current crop of Light Sport legal airplanes. Nothing excited me very much, until I saw the Esqual, and talked with Buz about his airplane. I was hooked, again. I ordered an Esqual. When the company went into bankruptcy, Pete switched me over to the Lightning, and I have not looked back. The dream lives on! Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Johnny Thompson To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:09 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Pilots Background The reply that Buz gave about his flying experience makes me think it would be nice to have everyone send in a message about their aviation background. I have been wondering how many of us are ex military pilots or crewmen. I don't know if we should use space on matronics.com and just send it to the newsletter and let Buz put together an owners section. Me, I like to be identified with the AH1G Cobra as my #1 favorite aircraft. What is yours? Johnny Thompson N8WN ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Lightning-List: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff Jim and Jerry, I appreciate the kind words of support. I am just trying to "give back" to aviation because it has meant so much to me for the last forty some years that I have had my tickets. So if I think I have something in my "clue bag" or my "bag of tricks" that might be useful to others, I will gladly share it. Although flying fighters in the Air Force for 28 years provided my "pay check", it was also a love; but I never did tell them that I would have gladly done it for free. And the entire time I was flying in the USAF, on the weekends I would be at the local small airport flying general and/or sport aviation airplanes. Heck, I built the Pitts while I was instructing in the F-4 at Luke and flew it for the next 29 years. Since 1974 I have been continuously active in EAA. When I happened onto the SYI group some years ago, I had an immediate feeling that they were onto something great. They were all EAA members and were striving to help others achieve their aviation dreams. What could be better than that. It really is a great story. I think that in the next issue of the Lightning Newsletter I might share some of the early Esqual / Lightning history - kind of "how it all started" and "how they got to where they are today". Heck, if you really want to look at things from a historic stand point, all of you current Lightning owners and builders are part of the "history of the Lightning". And to that end, I would ask all of you to send something directly to me to share in the newsletter. Such things as how you decided on the Lightning, how the build went, and your thoughts after flying your "self created aerial art piece". Help me out here, I need some ammo for upcoming issues of the newsletter. Blue Skies, Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 8


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    Time: 04:06:26 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    Subject: Pilots Background
    Awesome story Jerry. From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Van Heeswyk Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 6:19 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Pilots Background My background is not all that unique, but I was never in the military. It must be great to get paid for doing something you love. The genesis of my passion was building ten-cent Comet stick and tissue models when I was about 10 years old. I progressed though rubber band engines, to glo engines to gas engines, free-flight to R/C, and 5oz airplanes to 50lb airplanes. Many of the early birds didn't fly (logged one take off, and no landings), but the passion never died. I designed a few large models of homebuilt aircraft, wrote some articles for the model magazines, and sold plans. About 25 years ago, I designed and built a 1/3 size model of my next door neighbors Jodel F12 homebuilt. We became good friends, he made me an offer I could not refuse, and the rest is history. I got my ticket in that Jodel on July 28th, 1984, and at 5:00am the next morning was on my way to Oshkosh. I don't think my adrenalin level has returned to normal, since. I scratch built a Bakeng Duce, which I flew for almost a decade until I had some medical issues. I thought my flying days were over. I flew commercial for one last Oshkosh visit, where I learned about Light Sport, and checked out the current crop of Light Sport legal airplanes. Nothing excited me very much, until I saw the Esqual, and talked with Buz about his airplane. I was hooked, again. I ordered an Esqual. When the company went into bankruptcy, Pete switched me over to the Lightning, and I have not looked back. The dream lives on! Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Johnny <mailto:14az@mysprocketmail.com> Thompson Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:09 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Pilots Background The reply that Buz gave about his flying experience makes me think it would be nice to have everyone send in a message about their aviation background. I have been wondering how many of us are ex military pilots or crewmen. I don't know if we should use space on matronics.com and just send it to the newsletter and let Buz put together an owners section. Me, I like to be identified with the AH1G Cobra as my #1 favorite aircraft. What is yours? Johnny Thompson N8WN ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Lightning-List: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff Jim and Jerry, I appreciate the kind words of support. I am just trying to "give back" to aviation because it has meant so much to me for the last forty some years that I have had my tickets. So if I think I have something in my "clue bag" or my "bag of tricks" that might be useful to others, I will gladly share it. Although flying fighters in the Air Force for 28 years provided my "pay check", it was also a love; but I never did tell them that I would have gladly done it for free. And the entire time I was flying in the USAF, on the weekends I would be at the local small airport flying general and/or sport aviation airplanes. Heck, I built the Pitts while I was instructing in the F-4 at Luke and flew it for the next 29 years. Since 1974 I have been continuously active in EAA. When I happened onto the SYI group some years ago, I had an immediate feeling that they were onto something great. They were all EAA members and were striving to help others achieve their aviation dreams. What could be better than that. It really is a great story. I think that in the next issue of the Lightning Newsletter I might share some of the early Esqual / Lightning history - kind of "how it all started" and "how they got to where they are today". Heck, if you really want to look at things from a historic stand point, all of you current Lightning owners and builders are part of the "history of the Lightning". And to that end, I would ask all of you to send something directly to me to share in the newsletter. Such things as how you decided on the Lightning, how the build went, and your thoughts after flying your "self created aerial art piece". Help me out here, I need some ammo for upcoming issues of the newsletter. Blue Skies, Buz _____ Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch <http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598> the video on AOL Living. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 9


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    Time: 04:13:35 PM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@aol.com
    Subject: Re: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff
    Jerry, I will give a short answer now and some more thoughts later when I have more time. But first I will make an assumption that the fuel quantity sending units you are using are the capacitance type as supplied with the kit. If that is the case, did you calibrate them the first time you put fuel in the tanks? Unfortunately, my airplane has the old type "float" sending units which are no where as accurate as the capacitance type once you calibrate them. The calibrating steps should be spelled out with the papers that come with the units, but as I recall from watching that procedure several times, it is critical that you do the steps in the proper order to get the capacitance sending units to work properly. If you did not calibrate them you will probably have to have the tanks empty to do that correctly - and that can be fun when you intentionally run a tank dry in the air. I will explain later, but the engine sound is, well, very quite. Got to run for now, Buz **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


    Message 10


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    Time: 05:40:11 PM PST US
    From: "Jerry Van Heeswyk" <vanheeswyk@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff
    Yes, Buz, my sending units are of the capacitance type. I built my airplane in Greg Hobbs building, and he helped me program the sending units as I was filling the tanks for the first time. Greg had a set of instructions at that time, but can not locate them now. I drained the tanks and attempted to recalibrate from memory (which, I acknowledge, is very unreliable). I also attempted to find a set of calibration instructions on the web, and was unsuccessful. I believe the units are sold by Princeton Electronics, but my web search only turned up retailers, who wanted to sell me computer parts. If anyone knows of a valid web page for the documentation, or might have a set of documentation they can email or FAX me, I would be very appreciative. I am pretty certain this was a self-induced problem, and hope it can be easily resolved. Thanks, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 4:28 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff Jerry, I will give a short answer now and some more thoughts later when I have more time. But first I will make an assumption that the fuel quantity sending units you are using are the capacitance type as supplied with the kit. If that is the case, did you calibrate them the first time you put fuel in the tanks? Unfortunately, my airplane has the old type "float" sending units which are no where as accurate as the capacitance type once you calibrate them. The calibrating steps should be spelled out with the papers that come with the units, but as I recall from watching that procedure several times, it is critical that you do the steps in the proper order to get the capacitance sending units to work properly. If you did not calibrate them you will probably have to have the tanks empty to do that correctly - and that can be fun when you intentionally run a tank dry in the air. I will explain later, but the engine sound is, well, very quite. Got to run for now, Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:18:36 PM PST US
    From: "JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS" <lbmathias@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff
    Jerry, I don't have a fax machine but I will send you the instructions in an email; please confirm that you have the 2-point model because the calibration is different for the 2-point and the 5-point. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Van Heeswyk To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:37 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff Yes, Buz, my sending units are of the capacitance type. I built my airplane in Greg Hobbs building, and he helped me program the sending units as I was filling the tanks for the first time. Greg had a set of instructions at that time, but can not locate them now. I drained the tanks and attempted to recalibrate from memory (which, I acknowledge, is very unreliable). I also attempted to find a set of calibration instructions on the web, and was unsuccessful. I believe the units are sold by Princeton Electronics, but my web search only turned up retailers, who wanted to sell me computer parts. If anyone knows of a valid web page for the documentation, or might have a set of documentation they can email or FAX me, I would be very appreciative. I am pretty certain this was a self-induced problem, and hope it can be easily resolved. Thanks, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 4:28 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff Jerry, I will give a short answer now and some more thoughts later when I have more time. But first I will make an assumption that the fuel quantity sending units you are using are the capacitance type as supplied with the kit. If that is the case, did you calibrate them the first time you put fuel in the tanks? Unfortunately, my airplane has the old type "float" sending units which are no where as accurate as the capacitance type once you calibrate them. The calibrating steps should be spelled out with the papers that come with the units, but as I recall from watching that procedure several times, it is critical that you do the steps in the proper order to get the capacitance sending units to work properly. If you did not calibrate them you will probably have to have the tanks empty to do that correctly - and that can be fun when you intentionally run a tank dry in the air. I will explain later, but the engine sound is, well, very quite. Got to run for now, Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:04:56 PM PST US
    From: "Jerry Van Heeswyk" <vanheeswyk@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff
    Linda, thanks very much for helping me out. Yes, I do have the two point model of the sending units. I hope this is not too much trouble. I'll be watching my reader. Thanks again, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 7:15 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff Jerry, I don't have a fax machine but I will send you the instructions in an email; please confirm that you have the 2-point model because the calibration is different for the 2-point and the 5-point. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Van Heeswyk To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:37 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff Yes, Buz, my sending units are of the capacitance type. I built my airplane in Greg Hobbs building, and he helped me program the sending units as I was filling the tanks for the first time. Greg had a set of instructions at that time, but can not locate them now. I drained the tanks and attempted to recalibrate from memory (which, I acknowledge, is very unreliable). I also attempted to find a set of calibration instructions on the web, and was unsuccessful. I believe the units are sold by Princeton Electronics, but my web search only turned up retailers, who wanted to sell me computer parts. If anyone knows of a valid web page for the documentation, or might have a set of documentation they can email or FAX me, I would be very appreciative. I am pretty certain this was a self-induced problem, and hope it can be easily resolved. Thanks, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 4:28 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: thanks for kind words, plus plea for newsletter stuff Jerry, I will give a short answer now and some more thoughts later when I have more time. But first I will make an assumption that the fuel quantity sending units you are using are the capacitance type as supplied with the kit. If that is the case, did you calibrate them the first time you put fuel in the tanks? Unfortunately, my airplane has the old type "float" sending units which are no where as accurate as the capacitance type once you calibrate them. The calibrating steps should be spelled out with the papers that come with the units, but as I recall from watching that procedure several times, it is critical that you do the steps in the proper order to get the capacitance sending units to work properly. If you did not calibrate them you will probably have to have the tanks empty to do that correctly - and that can be fun when you intentionally run a tank dry in the air. I will explain later, but the engine sound is, well, very quite. Got to run for now, Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 13


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    Time: 11:03:27 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Lightning-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Lightning-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Lightning-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Lightning-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Lightning-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Lightning-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Lightning-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed. You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request. The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: lightning-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "lightning-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Lightning-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Lightning-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/lightning-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Lightning-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Lightning-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Lightning-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Lightning-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Lightning-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Lightning-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Lightning-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Lightning-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Lightning-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Lightning-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Lightning-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Lightning ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Lightning-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Lightning-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Lightning-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Lightning-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Lightning-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 14


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    Time: 11:05:55 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Lightning-List Usage Guidelines
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Lightning-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Lightning-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Lightning-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Lightning-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Lightning-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Lightning-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Lightning-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Lightning-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive




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