Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:12 AM - Re: To Buz Re: cleaning up my plane (Brian Whittingham)
2. 03:50 AM - Re: MPG (Rick Bowen)
3. 04:38 AM - Re: To Buz Re: cleaning up my plane (Jim Langley)
4. 05:00 AM - Re:Engine changes (EAFerguson@aol.com)
5. 05:40 AM - Re: New Trim System (Bob Haas)
6. 05:44 AM - Re: ADIZ (Mark Stauffer)
7. 06:18 AM - Re: Re:Engine changes (flylightning)
8. 07:12 AM - New Trim System - now welcome to the group (N1BZRich@aol.com)
9. 07:50 AM - Re: MPG ()
10. 08:08 AM - Prop selection ()
11. 09:16 AM - Re: Prop selection (flylightning)
12. 09:44 AM - Re: Prop selection ()
13. 09:52 AM - Re: Re:Engine changes (Sales Email Account)
14. 10:27 AM - Re: Prop selection (Kayberg@aol.com)
15. 12:11 PM - Re: Prop selection (N1BZRich@aol.com)
16. 12:31 PM - Re: Re:Engine changes (Mark Stauffer)
17. 09:42 PM - Re: Re:Engine changes (Sales Email Account)
18. 09:53 PM - Pitch trim modified (Johnny Thompson)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | To Buz re: cleaning up my plane |
"If you really want to go faster, then don't use the ground adjustable
Sensenich. It is fine up to 150 to 160, but for some reason seems to loose
efficiency above those numbers. Nick and I both have set a ground adjustab
le to
the exact pitch of a fixed pitch wood prop, and the wooden prop will always
be
faster. Not sure why, but it may have something to do with the way the woo
d
prop flexes or unloads at the higher rpms."I noticed that too, but just fig
ured it had to do with the smaller engine and the rotational mass of the mu
ch heavier ground adjustable prop and not being ableto achieve the same RPM
. When you compare the weights to a fixed pitch wooden prop, well the wood
prop is really really light. Brian W.
_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.-You IM, we g
ive.
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Mark,
Yes, there are options....I would rather stay out of that MESS known as the
ADIZ!!
Have a flying buddy who is based at Suburban, inside the ADIZ for you guys
who don't know the area.He left the ADIZ to go to the eastern shore of Md..
..When he came back, the folks "in charge", would NOT let him back in!
He could not get back to home base!(Lotta' stuff to the story)
Suffice it to say, he had to land at a airport outside the ADIZ, get someon
e to come get him, and go back a few days later to get his plane...at which
point he WAS allowed back in.
To try and put up with that "stuff" on a daily basis, to me is insanity.
I just do my 4 hour commute, knowing the DC airspace is safe from all the b
ad guys flying those little airplanes....
I feel much better now...
Rick
From: mark@flylightning.netTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Lig
htning-List: MPGDate: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:42:47 -0600
Come on Rick. You've got an airplane and a grass strip..... There's Suburba
n Airport, College Park, Potomac Airfield, and Hyde Executive(?). Just keep
a beater at the airport and drive in from there. Don't let the ADIZ or FRZ
deter you!!
All in fun!
Have a great day!
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.-You IM, we g
ive.
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | To Buz re: cleaning up my plane |
You know Buz. This would be a great topic for the newsletter. You have
basically written it already.
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: To Buz re: cleaning up my plane
Hi Charles,
I have been out of town so that is why I am just now getting around to
answering your last message. Apparently I stay way too busy, and my
schedule looks full through the fall.
The key to maximizing airspeed for any airplane is of course minimizing
drag. As you know the Lightning is pretty darn clean already, but there are
a few things you can do (as Nick had done at the factory) to add some MPH.
As I am sure Ryan has already mentioned, the gear leg fairings and wheel
pants that Arion has for the Lightning are the latest type of low pressure
design and will help lower drag quite a bit. But when you put the wheel
fairings on, you need to take the time to fit them properly so the any gap
between the fuselage bottom and the fairing is minimized and the same at the
bottom end. Then seal what gap is there some way. I use a combination of
rubber edge molding and plastic tape. Also, you need to make sure both
fairings are exactly inline with the aircraft centerline. If they are not,
then you loose some efficiency to the drag lowering effort. Recently, Linda
and I noticed that her airplane had developed a "ball out of center"
condition which we finally found was one of the gear leg farinings not being
perfectly aligned. Obviously that adds drag. After realigning the fairing
it was much better. Remember though that normally the ball will be centered
at some trimmed airspeed. Above that it will be on one side and below that
to the other side.
Same thing with the wheel pants. They need to fit perfectly. And that
means in alignment with the airplane. So make sure they are installed so
that they align with the centerline of the airplane and that their nose and
tail are also aligned with the C/L. One other thing about making sure the
wheel pants are the most efficient is the gap between the tire and the pant.
Too much gap and you have ruined some of the efficiency of the pant. Too
small a gap and you will probably rub the pant with the tire and tear up
some fiberglass. I generally look for about the thickness of my index
finger clearance between the tire and the pant at the front and the real.
On the sides, I look for about the width of my index finger. To make things
simple, use a half inch for both if you have a strange size index finger
like some of you monkeys out there. If you are going to err on the
cautious side, use slightly more along the tire sidewalls where they tend to
spread out on a harder than normal landing. Yes, I know, none of us do
that.
Some other things to do to reduce drag is to build your airplane square
and put all antennas inside. Antennas can be quite draggy and having a
glass airplane lets you put them inside the fiberglass structure to lower
drag. As to building you airplane square, take the time to make sure all
angles of incidence, etc. are as called for and the same on both sides. Do
you have the proper gap on the ailerons and flaps? Also, cooling drag can
be worked on, but Arion had done a good job on this already. But there is
always room for experimenting.
The last thing to do to insure the highest cruise speed (or top speed)
of your Lightning is to make sure you have the right propeller. Nick or
Ryan can give you a ball park or even suggest a particular size prop, but
each airplane is different. Some are built square, some are not. Some
weigh more than others and thus the airplane and engine work harder. Some
have accurately installed fairings and pants, others do not. And then
there are engines - some engines have more power than others. For a while
the 3300 with the new hydraulic lifters were down a little on horse power
and RPM when compared with the solid lifter engines. The new cam profile
has fixed that. So which engine do you have? If you really want to go
faster, then don't use the ground adjustable Sensenich. It is fine up to
150 to 160, but for some reason seems to loose efficiency above those
numbers. Nick and I both have set a ground adjustable to the exact pitch of
a fixed pitch wood prop, and the wooden prop will always be faster. Not
sure why, but it may have something to do with the way the wood prop flexes
or unloads at the higher rpms. As I have said before, props are part
science and part voodoo. I am still experimenting with what will be best
for N31BZ. I am currently running a 64ZK56, but will be checking out a
62XX60 that Nick has waiting for me when I get the time (oh yes, I have a
solid lifter engine). I should be in Tennessee later this month to both to
try this new prop and to fly the new 2008 Demo.
Hope all this helps. Entire books have been written on this subject and
others will probably be written in the future. Perhaps this will be a good
discussion topic at the second annual Lightning fly-in.
Blue Skies,
Buz
_____
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and
<http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001> advice on AOL Money &
Finance.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re:Engine changes |
In a message dated 3/11/2008 1:00:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
N1BZRich@aol.com writes:
To add to what Nick said, the 2007 Demo also had the hydraulic lifter engine
that was down slightly on horse power and rpm. The engine in the 2008 Demo
will have the hydraulic lifter with the new cam profile that should return
the lost power and rpm. It should be a speed demon.
Buz
New cam profile??? Is there a change in rated HP?
Earl
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
How does a wannabe lightning builder get access to the new news letter? I
still have a very nice PT 19
To convert to the Lightning kit. Bob Haas. See you all at S&F.
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: New Trim System
Hi Bill and all,
Buz here. If I might, let me jump in here and try to save Nick some
valuable time as he and Mark are working hard to get the new 2008 Demo
Lightning ready for it's first flight. I probably have one of the few
photos of the trim system as Nick was building it for testing on the
prototype. Nick sent it to me some time ago and I plan to put it in the
next Lightning newsletter for all to see. And as an attempt at getting
people excited about the next newsletter, I might even include an early
picture of the 2008 Demo fuselage as it rolled out of the paint shop. Has
anyone guessed what color it is not going to be?
Blue Skies,
Buz
_____
It's Tax Time! Get <http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001>
tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I flew in the ADIZ for about 3 1/2 years and it was a pain. I did have a
couple of times where they "lost" my flight plan back into the ADIZ but I
air filed and then was given a new squawk and allowed to enter. Sometimes it
was harder getting your squawk to leave then getting back in. One day four
of us were on cell phones for over a half hour trying to get through to
Potomac to get our squawk codes.
Other times they were great... such as allowing us to use a squawk for a
block of time to fly Young Eagles. It all depends on who's running the scope
that day!
Have a good one!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Bowen
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 4:48 AM
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: MPG
Mark,
Yes, there are options....I would rather stay out of that MESS known as
the ADIZ!!
Have a flying buddy who is based at Suburban, inside the ADIZ for you guys
who don't know the area.He left the ADIZ to go to the eastern shore of
Md....When he came back, the folks "in charge", would NOT let him back in!
He could not get back to home base!(Lotta' stuff to the story)
Suffice it to say, he had to land at a airport outside the ADIZ, get
someone to come get him, and go back a few days later to get his plane...at
which point he WAS allowed back in.
To try and put up with that "stuff" on a daily basis, to me is insanity.
I just do my 4 hour commute, knowing the DC airspace is safe from all the
bad guys flying those little airplanes....
I feel much better now...
Rick
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mark@flylightning.net
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: MPG
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:42:47 -0600
Come on Rick. You've got an airplane and a grass strip..... There's
Suburban Airport, College Park, Potomac Airfield, and Hyde Executive(?).
Just keep a beater at the airport and drive in from there. Don't let the
ADIZ or FRZ deter you!!
All in fun!
Have a great day!
Mark
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Helping your favorite cause is as easy
enger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join' target='_new'>Learn more.
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re:Engine changes |
Earl,
There is no change in rated horsepower. The last of the solid lifter motors
were rated @120hp but made a bit more than that , the first hydraulic motors
made the 120hp rated but not that little extra that the last solid lifters
did, so there is a new cam profile that should have that back,,,,the 3300
still makes and always has made the rated 120hp...
nick
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
EAFerguson@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:57 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Re:Engine changes
In a message dated 3/11/2008 1:00:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
N1BZRich@aol.com writes:
To add to what Nick said, the 2007 Demo also had the hydraulic lifter engine
that was down slightly on horse power and rpm. The engine in the 2008 Demo
will have the hydraulic lifter with the new cam profile that should return
the lost power and rpm. It should be a speed demon.
Buz
New cam profile??? Is there a change in rated HP?
Earl
_____
It's Tax Time! Get <http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001>
tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | New Trim System - now welcome to the group |
Bob,
The Newsletter goes out on this list so you must have just joined - so
it should be available in the archives. However, you can also find the
newsletter at the Lightning web site: _http://www.flylightning.net/_
(http://www.flylightning.net/)
Just under the opening photos and words you will see the words "Lightning
Newsletter (first edition) Now Available On Line". Just click on that line and
wait a few seconds while it loads. All future newsletters will also be
available on the Lightning web site.
Welcome aboard. You will find a great group of people here - the
factory guys, the dealers, the past builders and flyers, the current builders,
and
those that are gathering information to make their decision to build a
Lightning. The group eagerly shares their thoughts, suggestions, and experiences
for all to benefit.
By the way, where are you located? I really do need a ride in a PT 19,
or 23 or 26. I always have liked the looks of those. Since the factory is
currently without a Demo aircraft (until SNF) if you are anywhere near
Virginia, stop by for a flight in my highly modified Esqual LS (Lightning Stuff).
Also, since you are new to the list, many folks think I am on the Arion /
Lightning / Jabiru payroll since I fly their airplanes and write so much about
them. Actually I am just a happy customer that happened to be building my
Esqual while they were developing the Lightning and things just developed from
that. They really are a great group of EAA folks that have a super product
(or products) and are helping others achieve their dream of building and flying
their own airplane without taking years to do it.
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
HEY!!!
I've seen thay lady!!
LOL!!!
That would be a mess!
Thanks! I loved it!
--
Have a blessed day!
Scott C. Arden
---- Jim Langley <pequeajim@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Scott:
>
> This may be the only way you see the 405 empty...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIhgTQV5AgU
>
> Jim!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of scottarden@cox.net
> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 1:08 PM
> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Lightning-List: MPG
>
>
> I wish I had 90 miles round trip!! 63 miles each way on the 405 (for those of
you outside So Ca. The 405 goes from purgatory to hell! LOTS of traffic!
Sometimes the speeds approach 15 mph!!)
> --
> Have a blessed day!
> Scott C. Arden
>
> ---- Brian Whittingham <dashvii@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Nick,
> > The Mini Cooper S is the turbocharged one too isn't it? I just bought a
2007 Ford Escape, and I'm getting 27mpg in the city. Wish I could have afforded
the hybrid though. 90 miles round trip to work in city traffic, yikes! Brian
W.
> >
> >
> > From: info@flylightning.netTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Lightning-List:
MPGDate: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:54:19 -0500
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Brian,
> >
> > Just bought a 2002 Mini Cooper S&..32 city &&42+ hwy&&and those are real numbers
,have put a couple a thousand on it so far&
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian WhittinghamSent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 11:39 AMTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Lightning-List: MPG
> >
> > I know that I've done a little over a 200 mile leg and burned about 6 gallons
of gas. Should be about
> > 33 mpg. Still, I bet none of your cars get that. Can you say that about a
Piper or a Cessna? Can you even saythat about a Cirrus? Brian W.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail-get your "fix". Check it out. http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Climb to the top of the charts!Play the word scramble challenge with star power.
> > http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Guys!
I'm getting close to buying a Lightning kit. I'm not anywhere near being an aeronautical
engineer, and am learning a TON from you guys! I have a question that
I haven't seen addressed here. The lightning website calls for a fixed pitch
prop. Would a cockpit adjustable/constant speed prop be applicable to this
airframe and engine. I know that an oil pressure driven CS will not work with
this engine, but there seem to be some good electric alternatives. I talked
to the guys at Ivoprop and they said their inflight adjustable with the constant
speed controller would work great for this application. I know I'm listening
to sales-speak, but please educate me. It seems like a constant speed might
give great take-off performance and at the same time give some better top
end.
Buz? Rich? Nick? Jim?
--
Have a blessed day!
Scott C. Arden
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Scott,
I would not go with the IVO, although I have not flown it so maybe I don't
know but I have seen them come apart and have flown the airmaster which is
similar with no luck in this application. The wood 62 FK 58 is a great prop
for the aircraft for all around performance...
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
scottarden@cox.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 10:06 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Prop selection
Guys!
I'm getting close to buying a Lightning kit. I'm not anywhere near being an
aeronautical engineer, and am learning a TON from you guys! I have a
question that I haven't seen addressed here. The lightning website calls
for a fixed pitch prop. Would a cockpit adjustable/constant speed prop be
applicable to this airframe and engine. I know that an oil pressure driven
CS will not work with this engine, but there seem to be some good electric
alternatives. I talked to the guys at Ivoprop and they said their inflight
adjustable with the constant speed controller would work great for this
application. I know I'm listening to sales-speak, but please educate me.
It seems like a constant speed might give great take-off performance and at
the same time give some better top end.
Buz? Rich? Nick? Jim?
--
Have a blessed day!
Scott C. Arden
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Thanks, Nick..
Rather than asking about specific products, I'm really inquiring about the concept
of a constant speed with this airframe/engine. I know there are several manufacturers
out there who make electric CS props and I wouldn't use one that
doesn't have an impecable safety record (i.e. NO structural failures), I certainly
don't want to suddenly find myself in a glider that used to be a powered
airplane! I don't think that the liklihood of finding a guy like in Jim's video
is too promising!!
--
Have a blessed day!
Scott C. Arden
---- flylightning <info@flylightning.net> wrote:
>
> Scott,
>
> I would not go with the IVO, although I have not flown it so maybe I don't
> know but I have seen them come apart and have flown the airmaster which is
> similar with no luck in this application. The wood 62 FK 58 is a great prop
> for the aircraft for all around performance...
>
> Nick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> scottarden@cox.net
> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 10:06 AM
> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Lightning-List: Prop selection
>
>
> Guys!
> I'm getting close to buying a Lightning kit. I'm not anywhere near being an
> aeronautical engineer, and am learning a TON from you guys! I have a
> question that I haven't seen addressed here. The lightning website calls
> for a fixed pitch prop. Would a cockpit adjustable/constant speed prop be
> applicable to this airframe and engine. I know that an oil pressure driven
> CS will not work with this engine, but there seem to be some good electric
> alternatives. I talked to the guys at Ivoprop and they said their inflight
> adjustable with the constant speed controller would work great for this
> application. I know I'm listening to sales-speak, but please educate me.
> It seems like a constant speed might give great take-off performance and at
> the same time give some better top end.
> Buz? Rich? Nick? Jim?
> --
> Have a blessed day!
> Scott C. Arden
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re:Engine changes |
Hi Nick and List,
How do you determine if your engine has the latest cam installed?
What is recommended for the cockpit side of the firewall as a firewall
blanket for sound deadening and a thermal barrier? Is it worth pursuing?
Bill Applegate, Kit #49, Tucson, AZ.............New canopy frame trimmed
to fit cockpit sills, now working up the courage to trim the canopy!
flylightning wrote:
> Earl,
>
>
>
> There is no change in rated horsepower. The last of the solid lifter
> motors were rated @120hp but made a bit more than that , the first
> hydraulic motors made the 120hp rated but not that little extra that
> the last solid lifters did, so there is a new cam profile that should
> have that back,,,,the 3300 still makes and always has made the rated
> 120hp.....
>
>
>
> nick
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> EAFerguson@aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:57 AM
> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Lightning-List: Re:Engine changes
>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/11/2008 1:00:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> N1BZRich@aol.com writes:
>
> To add to what Nick said, the 2007 Demo also had the hydraulic
> lifter engine that was down slightly on horse power and rpm. The
> engine in the 2008 Demo will have the hydraulic lifter with the
> new cam profile that should return the lost power and rpm. It
> should be a speed demon.
>
> Buz
>
> New cam profile??? Is there a change in rated HP?
>
>
>
> Earl
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
> <http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Prop selection |
In a message dated 3/11/2008 11:09:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
scottarden@cox.net writes:
Guys!
I'm getting close to buying a Lightning kit. I'm not anywhere near being an
aeronautical engineer, and am learning a TON from you guys! I have a
question that I haven't seen addressed here. The lightning website calls for
a
fixed pitch prop. Would a cockpit adjustable/constant speed prop be applicable
to this airframe and engine. I know that an oil pressure driven CS will not
work with this engine, but there seem to be some good electric alternatives.
I talked to the guys at Ivoprop and they said their inflight adjustable with
the constant speed controller would work great for this application. I know
I'm listening to sales-speak, but please educate me. It seems like a
constant speed might give great take-off performance and at the same time give
some better top end.
Buz? Rich? Nick? Jim?
I am not one of those 4, but I have worked with IVO props.
I think they work great on Rotax geared engines and can supply high thrust
at low speeds, particularly the 3 blade. But they dont handle power pulses
real well as in a direct drive. Also they have a top speed peak.
The two-blade Sensinich adjustable has supplied greater speed in one
application I am familiar with, where it replaced a 3 blade IVO inflight adjust.
The IVO inflight adjust is a decent unit, but only on a geared Rotax. The
brushes for the blade pitch motor seem to have a short life.
Given the extra expense for a really decent inflight adjust, I dont think it
is worth it. The guys at Titan have an electric 4 blade inflight adjust to
go with their geared engines. If memory serves, that prop costs about
$20,000!!! The european designs are in the same price range.
Another consideration is a prop strike. With a wood prop, it is not likely
to do much damage to the engine in a "gopher hole" strike. A thousand bucks
or less and you are flying again. Not so with an inflight.
For some reason it is becoming increasingly popular to hang every gizmo
possible on the Lightning airframe. It takes longer to wire up the TV's, radios
and gizmos than it does to assemble the airframe! Some refuse to fly with
less than two GPS's!!! Not only does it increase the cost, weight and
complexity, but has a performance price tag also.
I suspect Inflight adjust doesn't make a plane go faster, it just lets you
decrease the RPMs for the same speeds. It can give more ground thrust because
of a flatter bite. The Lightning gets off the ground and climbs just fine
even with a "cruise" prop.
Just my thoughts
doug koenigsberg
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Prop selection |
In a message dated 3/11/2008 11:09:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
scottarden@cox.net writes:
said their inflight adjustable with the constant speed controller would work
great for this application.
Scott,
Doug pretty much covered my thoughts when he said that the inflight
adjustable is not any faster if you have the right fixed pitch cruise prop. With
an adjustable prop you may get a slightly shorter takeoff and slightly more
rate of climb, but the cost of that in my book is not worth it. If you build
your Lightning light the takeoff roll will be relatively short even with a
cruise prop. Even at gross on a hot day, I never see a takeoff roll much over
600 to 700 feet and the rate of climb is still 1000 fpm or better. Most of
my TO rolls are around 500 feet or less. If you want to operate out of a
short strip with steep approaches, then don't use a cruise prop.
Second thought, don't confuse an inflight adjustable with a constant speed.
They are two different things. A true constant speed must have some sort of
governor (normally operated by engine oil) that keeps the engine rpm
constant regardless of what you do with the nose of the airplane. It is constantly
varying the pitch of the prop to achieve this. An inflight adjustable only
allows you to change the pitch from the cockpit, and it uses an electric motor
to change the pitch. The prop blades then stay where you set them until you
re-adjust. So once you set the pitch it stays there and the rpm will vary
as you raise or lower the nose of the airplane - just like a fixed pitch. If
some company has an electric governor to make a true constant speed electric
prop, then I suspect it would be very costly and heavy. I have not seen or
read about this feature.
Sensenich has been showing an electric in flight adjustable hub for the
last year or so at OSH and LAL. Don't know when it might be available, but I
seem to remember that it is a $6,000.00 option. Not worth it in my book.
I also agree completely with Doug's thoughts of keeping your homebuilt
airplane simple. In the long run you will have fewer problems and a much
cheaper airplane to build and maintain. Remember that the cost that you pay for
builder's assistance programs is based on the basic airplane. When you add
complicated systems you greatly add to the build time and you should expect to
pay for that extra time. Heck, even fitting wheel pants and gear leg
fairings add a lot of time. It took me over a week to do mine, but I was kind
of
doing it the first time.
One other thought and I will put down my hammer - the builders assist
programs have certain avionics and equipment that they are familiar with
because they have successfully used those many time. They can easily wire them
and
they will work the first time. My suggestion is to go with their suggestion
as to which radio, X-ponder, EIS and EFIS to use if you are going the fancy
panel route. That will make their job easier and should take less time -
therefore less $s for you.
Blue Skies,
Buz Rich
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re:Engine changes |
Bill,
Our upholstery shop uses 1/2" automotive dense fiber padding glued to the
firewall. Then they glue their interior carpet to that padding.
As for the cam, starting with a certain serial number all new engines have
the new cam profile. I don't know what the exact serial number is.
Congratulations on your canopy frame. Actually, trimming the canopy is the
easiest part. Place the canopy on the frame and draw a line around the
canopy in the middle of the "C" channel. Trim on the line with a Dremel tool
or some sort of cut off wheel and then clean up the edge so you don't cut
your fingers. You don't have to worry about the fit against the fuselage,
the canopy skins will take care of that.
Have a great day!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sales Email
Account
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 10:51 AM
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re:Engine changes
Hi Nick and List,
How do you determine if your engine has the latest cam installed?
What is recommended for the cockpit side of the firewall as a firewall
blanket for sound deadening and a thermal barrier? Is it worth pursuing?
Bill Applegate, Kit #49, Tucson, AZ.............New canopy frame trimmed
to fit cockpit sills, now working up the courage to trim the canopy!
flylightning wrote:
Earl,
There is no change in rated horsepower. The last of the solid lifter
motors were rated @120hp but made a bit more than that , the first hydraulic
motors made the 120hp rated but not that little extra that the last solid
lifters did, so there is a new cam profile that should have that back,,,,the
3300 still makes and always has made the rated 120hp...
nick
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
EAFerguson@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:57 AM
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Subject: Lightning-List: Re:Engine changes
In a message dated 3/11/2008 1:00:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
N1BZRich@aol.com writes:
To add to what Nick said, the 2007 Demo also had the hydraulic lifter
engine that was down slightly on horse power and rpm. The engine in the
2008 Demo will have the hydraulic lifter with the new cam profile that
should return the lost power and rpm. It should be a speed demon.
Buz
New cam profile??? Is there a change in rated HP?
Earl
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re:Engine changes |
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the speedy reply. Who would know what the affected engine
serial numbers forward are for the updated cam? I'm looking for a
contact person, Email or phone number.
Regarding trimming the canopy. I did not communicate very well what my
concern was regarding the cutting of the canopy. I was afraid of
putting a crack in the acrylic! I had figured out where it needed to be
cut and had marked it in the middle of the "C" channel on the canopy
frame with masking tape so that it would be visible and less likely to
crack.
Great news!!! I was able to trim the canopy to size in just about an
hour today. I used a spiral cutout tool that I picked up at Harbor
Freight. It cost $19.95 and here is the URL for the item on their web
site: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42831
I used the 1/8 inch spiral bit with this tool and it works great and
leaves a smooth finish cut that does not leave any sharp edges. It is
very easy to use and is much like the Roto Zip tool that sells for a
great deal more.
Tomorrow I plan to make holding fixtures to align the canopy frame so I
can install the canopy attachment hardware and at the same time set the
canopy reveal so that when the finish skins are applied the fuselage and
canopy will flow smoothly together. I plan to take some pictures and if
anyone is interested I will post them.
I have noticed that there is a bow in each of my flaps of anywhere from
.125 to .25 inches. Additionally the trailing edges of these flaps are
wavy rather than straight. Is this typical? I assume that this will
not be a factor in flight. Is that indeed the case? I suspect it will
affect the gap between the wing trailing edge skin and the flap.
This is a non-builder assist build which was started in October of
2007. For those that have not finished their Lightnings as yet I think
it would be great to know, by Kit Number and builder name, when the
build was started. I believe that this would be very informative for
all builders especially for those not using builder assistance.
Bill Applegate, Kit #49, Tucson, AZ working on the canopy and installing
the flaps.
>
> Our upholstery shop uses 1/2" automotive dense fiber padding glued to
> the firewall. Then they glue their interior carpet to that padding.
>
> As for the cam, starting with a certain serial number all new engines
> have the new cam profile. I don't know what the exact serial number is.
>
> Congratulations on your canopy frame. Actually, trimming the canopy is
> the easiest part. Place the canopy on the frame and draw a line around
> the canopy in the middle of the "C" channel. Trim on the line with a
> Dremel tool or some sort of cut off wheel and then clean up the edge
> so you don't cut your fingers. You don't have to worry about the fit
> against the fuselage, the canopy skins will take care of that.
>
> Have a great day!
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Sales Email Account
> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 10:51 AM
> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re:Engine changes
>
> Hi Nick and List,
>
> How do you determine if your engine has the latest cam installed?
>
> What is recommended for the cockpit side of the firewall as a
> firewall blanket for sound deadening and a thermal barrier? Is it
> worth pursuing?
>
> Bill Applegate, Kit #49, Tucson, AZ.............New canopy frame
> trimmed to fit cockpit sills, now working up the courage to trim
> the canopy!
>
> flylightning wrote:
>
>> Earl,
>>
>> There is no change in rated horsepower. The last of the solid
>> lifter motors were rated @120hp but made a bit more than that ,
>> the first hydraulic motors made the 120hp rated but not that
>> little extra that the last solid lifters did, so there is a new
>> cam profile that should have that back,,,,the 3300 still makes
>> and always has made the rated 120hp.....
>>
>> nick
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> EAFerguson@aol.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:57 AM
>> To: lightning-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Lightning-List: Re:Engine changes
>>
>> In a message dated 3/11/2008 1:00:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> N1BZRich@aol.com writes:
>>
>> To add to what Nick said, the 2007 Demo also had the
>> hydraulic lifter engine that was down slightly on horse power
>> and rpm. The engine in the 2008 Demo will have the hydraulic
>> lifter with the new cam profile that should return the lost
>> power and rpm. It should be a speed demon.
>>
>> Buz
>>
>> New cam profile??? Is there a change in rated HP?
>>
>> Earl
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
>> <http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Pitch trim modified |
Nick
This is how my pitch trim worked out, 42.5 sq inches. Made entry on
bottom of elevator with servo connected to top. Less chance of water
getting inside of elevator. On taxi runs about 20 to 30 kts the trim was
operational in all position and would hold the stick without any help
from pilot.Tab size may be too large, however I will be able to set the
limit of travel or install a smaller trim tab. Since I am using piano
hinge for the tab it will only take a few minutes to change. I am
thinking this size (42.5 square inches) may help keep up with the flaps
since the travel time on the Ray Allen servo is much slower. Waiting to
get my seatbelts back from the shop for modifications before I can fly.
Taxi test are fine, it wants to fly. Johnny
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|