---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/05/08: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:55 AM - Re: rotate (Simon Wilson) 2. 05:29 AM - Arion's link to this forum (yhol) 3. 05:54 AM - Re: rotate (Brian Whittingham) 4. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Frapper Map (N1BZRich@aol.com) 5. 02:12 PM - Re: rotate (N1BZRich@aol.com) 6. 02:14 PM - Re: SnF Schedule (N1BZRich@aol.com) 7. 02:26 PM - Re: SnF Schedule (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com) 8. 07:07 PM - Re: SnF Schedule (N1BZRich@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:52 AM PST US From: "Simon Wilson" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: rotate Hi Buz, I am a potential Lightning builder from Australia. Are your quoted performance figures Miles per Hour or Knots (Nautical Miles per Hour). The Arion web site quotes a cruise speed of 175 mph (152 Knots). Just wondering what your 145 at 2800rpm is. Cheers Simon Wilson P Please consider the environment before printing this email _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Friday, 4 April 2008 6:22 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: rotate Hi Dave, I hate to say it, but if I were a betting man, I would say your airspeed indicator is in error - reading quite high. My airplane will easily rotate at 35 (or before) and fly off at 40 when I use 10 degrees of flap for TO. But first let me ask a few questions. What is your indicated stall speed both clean and dirty? Have you measured your total up elevator travel? Are your W&B numbers anywhere close to mine? Yes, I added four pounds of weight to the aft fuselage of my aircraft so that a light weight pilot (make that a pretty lady pilot weighing about 120 pounds) could fly the airplane solo down to 6 gallons total fuel remaining. Before I added the 4 pounds in the aft fuselage in the low area under the fin, the light weight pilot would have to land with about half fuel in order to stay within the allowable range for forward CG. Based on what you say your stall speeds are (my 30 degree flap stall speed is 34 mph and clean is 44 mph) the other thing that makes me think you airspeed is reading high is the numbers you quote for speed at 3,000 feet and 2800 rpm. You said, "It cruises at 150 indicated at 3000 ft doing 2800 rpm and fly's great." Well that really would be great, but I doubt those numbers based not only on my airplane but the five Lightnings I have flown. Just this morning on a flight to another airport for a meeting I ran my airplane at 3000 feet and at 2800 rpm. It settles out at 145 indicated burning about 4.7 gallons per hour. True airspeed was about 148 or 149. I am still running the 64ZK55 (will switch to the 62FK58 when I get back from SNF. A few more thoughts (so we don't get into a "my jet is faster than your jet") I have verified my airspeed on several occasions using other certified aircraft and using the wind triangles and several different GPSs. My airspeed (on the EFIS) is dead on (as is the airspeed on the new Demo - 324AL). Have you checked your airspeed with other aircraft in formation or done wind triangles with a GPS? Where is your pitot and static pick up? I seem to remember the Esqual having two "pin hole" static ports on the aft fuselage. I didn't like that because they are so easy to plug with wax or other surface stuff, so I went to the system that the Lightning now uses - below the wing along with the pitot tube. Has someone walked in to your pitot tube and bent it? Hope some of the above helps - cause you know my jet is faster than your jet. ;-) Blue Skies, Buz _____ .. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:09 AM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Arion's link to this forum From: "yhol" On the front page of Arions website there is a link to Matronic's email list portal: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/ . You get to it by clicking the Join the Lightning-List internet chat group -- link close to the bottom of the page. Wouldn't it be better to send people directly to the forum with this link instead of the digest? : http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=64 This way they'll be able to participate and ask questions immediatly. They'd also see attachments such as the newsletter and pictures. Yhol Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174934#174934 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:57 AM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: rotate Simon, Buz bases his cruise speed by setting a certain fuel flow. Therefore he burns a predictable amount of fuel but the actual speed may go up or down based on winds, altitude, etc. 2800 RPM is just a random setting that gave him this fuel flow on this particular day. 2950 RPM is the max continous RPM and the one that I always used for cruise fllight. Also note that 152 knot cruise speed is based on a lot of variables if you have an experimenta l aircraft. That is for one that has the carb set right with a good prop a nd a good pitch to that prop. It is also for one that is built straight an d has the gear leg fairings and wheel pants. Also note that Buz has an Esq ual. It does have a Lightning firewall forward and wheel pants and gear le g fairings, but is a different airplane with an entirely different wing str ucture. Even though Buz has probably the fastest Esqual ever built, he'll be the first to tell you that the Lightning is superior in every way and ha ndles much differently. So your results in the Lightning will vary from hi s observations. The published numbers are what is a possibility. Having s aid that, the plane can also be built for a max continous cruise speed of 1 20 knots. That's a big difference! It will do the 152 knot cruise speed t hough if you build it right and want to build it for speed. Brian W. From: simon@sertech.com.auTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Ligh tning-List: rotateDate: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 18:51:02 +1100 Hi Buz, I am a potential Lightning builder from Australia. Are your quoted perf ormance figures Miles per Hour or Knots (Nautical Miles per Hour). The Ario n web site quotes a cruise speed of 175 mph (152 Knots). Just wondering wha t your 145 at 2800rpm is. Cheers Simon Wilson P Please consider the environment before printing this email From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.comSent: Friday, 4 April 2008 6:22 AMTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Lightning-List: ro tate Hi Dave, I hate to say it, but if I were a betting man, I would say your airspee d indicator is in error - reading quite high. My airplane will easily rota te at 35 (or before) and fly off at 40 when I use 10 degrees of flap for TO . But first let me ask a few questions. What is your indicated stall spee d both clean and dirty? Have you measured your total up elevator travel? Are your W&B numbers anywhere close to mine? Yes, I added four pounds of weight to the aft fuselage of my aircraft s o that a light weight pilot (make that a pretty lady pilot weighing about 1 20 pounds) could fly the airplane solo down to 6 gallons total fuel remaini ng. Before I added the 4 pounds in the aft fuselage in the low area under the fin, the light weight pilot would have to land with about half fuel in order to stay within the allowable range for forward CG. Based on what you say your stall speeds are (my 30 degree flap stall sp eed is 34 mph and clean is 44 mph) the other thing that makes me think you airspeed is reading high is the numbers you quote for speed at 3,000 feet a nd 2800 rpm. You said, "It cruises at 150 indicated at 3000 ft doing 2800 rpm and fly's great." Well that really would be great, but I doubt those n umbers based not only on my airplane but the five Lightnings I have flown. Just this morning on a flight to another airport for a meeting I ran my ai rplane at 3000 feet and at 2800 rpm. It settles out at 145 indicated burni ng about 4.7 gallons per hour. True airspeed was about 148 or 149. I am s till running the 64ZK55 (will switch to the 62FK58 when I get back from SNF .. A few more thoughts (so we don't get into a "my jet is faster than your jet") I have verified my airspeed on several occasions using other certifi ed aircraft and using the wind triangles and several different GPSs. My ai rspeed (on the EFIS) is dead on (as is the airspeed on the new Demo - 324AL ). Have you checked your airspeed with other aircraft in formation or done wind triangles with a GPS? Where is your pitot and static pick up? I see m to remember the Esqual having two "pin hole" static ports on the aft fuse lage. I didn't like that because they are so easy to plug with wax or othe r surface stuff, so I went to the system that the Lightning now uses - belo w the wing along with the pitot tube. Has someone walked in to your pitot tube and bent it? Hope some of the above helps - cause you know my jet is faster than you r jet. ;-) Blue Skies, Buz ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List ics.com matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr esh_getintouch_042008 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:27 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Frapper Map No problems, mate. Just wanted to be sure you know there had been three issues. I am now in Florida for Sun-N-fun and may not have must time to do e-mails when the show starts. I do volunteer work with the American Bonanza society. Blue Skies, buz (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:40 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: rotate In a message dated 4/5/2008 3:56:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, simon@sertech.com.au writes: Are your quoted performance figures Miles per Hour or Knots (Nautical Miles per Hour). Hi Simon, Miles per hour - makes me think I am going faster. Actually I am one of the "old school" that uses MPH in light aircraft and knots in jets. Just the way I was trained years ago. It is sometimes to get rid of old habits. I don't know what I will do when we switch to the metric compass. Beautiful day in Lakeland. A beautiful puffy cloud layer at about 3,000 feet, temperature in the low 80s. Blue Skies, Buz (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:14:55 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: SnF Schedule Earl and all, Wednesday at noon is the Lightning forum and Thursday at noon is our standard "listers" get together at the Lightning booth. It would be nice if you were in the audience at the forum so Nick could announce that we have a world record holder in attendance. Come on down - beautiful day here. Blue Skies, Buz (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:26:09 PM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: SnF Schedule Hey Buz: I expect to be there. I hope nothing comes of this front coming in from the northwest. I tied my 601 down this morning with the for sale sign. I hope someone likes what they see and buys it. It will certainly be a lot less onerous with my wife (purchase of serial #60 in process). I volunteer with the Ercoupe group, so I will most likely see you in the type tent. Lynn Nelsen (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:00 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: SnF Schedule OK, Lynn, see you there. I don't remember my work schedule at the ABS table in the type club tent, but probably some each morning. Buz (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.