Lightning-List Digest Archive

Thu 04/17/08


Total Messages Posted: 11



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:34 AM - Details, Details, Details ()
     2. 09:44 AM - Re: Details, Details, Details (N1BZRich@aol.com)
     3. 10:05 AM - Re: Details, Details, Details (flylightning)
     4. 11:12 AM - Re: Details, Details, Details (Jabiru Chile)
     5. 01:16 PM - Re: Details, Details, Details (Wayne Lenox)
     6. 03:10 PM - Re: Details, Details, Details (N1BZRich@aol.com)
     7. 03:17 PM - Re: Details, Details, Details (Kayberg@aol.com)
     8. 04:08 PM - Re: Details, Details, Details (N1BZRich@aol.com)
     9. 05:36 PM - seriously OFF TOPIC (Benjamin Smith)
    10. 05:49 PM - Re: Details, Details, Details (Kayberg@aol.com)
    11. 06:06 PM - Re: Details, Details, Details (Fry)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 07:34:40 AM PST US
    From: <scottarden@cox.net>
    Subject: Details, Details, Details
    Hey, Lightning flashes! Now that you've had the hours on the new demonstrator, do tell.... What are the performance numbers shaping up to be? How much better are the speeds? Any weight changes? Distances? Fuel flow? Yada, yada, yada!! Looking forward to hearing the updates!! -- Have a blessed day! Scott C. Arden


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:44:28 AM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Details, Details, Details
    Scott and all, Nick can probably give you some ball park numbers since he flew it to and from SNF, but since he kind of stayed with the "gaggle" (a loose formation - like Navy pilots fly) of Jabiru aircraft his numbers will probably not be optimum. I plan to be in Tennessee in early May (judging at a NIFA contest) and will drop by SYI to do a full flight evaluation like I have previously done on both the prototype and the original demonstrator. Look for it in either the May or June newsletter - it all depends on how much time I have between now and then to get the next issue out. In the mean time, I can tell you from having flown two sorties in it for a total of about 2.8 hours, it is the best one yet. Pretty much flies hands off and goes really well. It did not have the gear leg fairings or wheel pants on when I flew it last, so now it will be even better. Blue skies, Buz **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:05:08 AM PST US
    From: "flylightning" <info@flylightning.net>
    Subject: Details, Details, Details
    Group, Yes we are back and we have got a good idea of performance but did not get a chance to let it stretch the old legs on the trip due to weather mostly. The trip down, the jabiru folks and the lightning flew in a group. Well mostly a group I was normally out in front a ways checking weather on the route. Most of the trip was at 8k-12k and I had it powered back for economy cruise and to stay somewhat with the group, Average TAS was 132nkts (this is not GS but TAS) @ 4.2 gph and a power setting of 2700-2780rpms. That was the trip down. The trip back was very rough and had to have the power back and airspeed under Va so no good data there, the last 45 minutes although was smooth enough to fly at about 2850rpm..that magic number for LSA and N324AL will run @ 3500ft 145 mph IAS and 138ktns TAS so a bit fast for LSA in this configuration but we did not build it for that.....Before departure on a few test flights at 4k I was seeing with the autopilot lock on and the plane flying it self 155mph IAS and 170mph TAS this at between 2950-3000 rpm... At first this is not any better than the old demo....but we have the same prop 62 FK 58...and at the same REVs it should go the same speed..and it does....the difference is a whole lot a throttle left to go! The old demo 323AL would turn that prop to 3100revs... @ 5k WOT....the new demo will turn the same prop @ 5k WOT to well above 3300 revs...there is the difference, the ability to run maybe 2" or better more pitch in the prop. Which in turn should give better speed. But heres the real dilemma, the prop will still get 170TAS which is good, but it also turns up more REVs at WOT for takeoff, the ground roll is shorter the climb rate is quicker, so I think this might be still the best choice...but if you don't care about runways lengths and you want a bit more speed I think a 62fk60 may be the answer. Other wise it is performing as expected, the new trim system is as it should be and works great....no more bungees. This aircraft came in @ 823lbs empty, speed kit , interior, dual EFIS, auto pilot, garmin Radio and TXP..... The 30 gallons of fuel is proving to be a nice addition. If you figure 132knts TAS @ 4.2 GPH economy cruise That's 6.5 hours with reserve, 858 nm no wind, and about 31.4 mpg....that make owning a Honda sound boring don't it!...Oh and did I mention we won best Composite homebuilt at Sun N Fun..... Nick -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of scottarden@cox.net Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:29 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Details, Details, Details Hey, Lightning flashes! Now that you've had the hours on the new demonstrator, do tell.... What are the performance numbers shaping up to be? How much better are the speeds? Any weight changes? Distances? Fuel flow? Yada, yada, yada!! Looking forward to hearing the updates!! -- Have a blessed day! Scott C. Arden


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:12:58 AM PST US
    From: "Jabiru Chile" <info@jabiru.cl>
    Subject: Details, Details, Details
    Congratulation Nick and Arion team for the information about the new Demo. Christian Tannen Jabiru Chile -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] En nombre de flylightning Enviado el: Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:02 PM Para: lightning-list@matronics.com Asunto: RE: Lightning-List: Details, Details, Details Group, Yes we are back and we have got a good idea of performance but did not get a chance to let it stretch the old legs on the trip due to weather mostly. The trip down, the jabiru folks and the lightning flew in a group. Well mostly a group I was normally out in front a ways checking weather on the route. Most of the trip was at 8k-12k and I had it powered back for economy cruise and to stay somewhat with the group, Average TAS was 132nkts (this is not GS but TAS) @ 4.2 gph and a power setting of 2700-2780rpms. That was the trip down. The trip back was very rough and had to have the power back and airspeed under Va so no good data there, the last 45 minutes although was smooth enough to fly at about 2850rpm..that magic number for LSA and N324AL will run @ 3500ft 145 mph IAS and 138ktns TAS so a bit fast for LSA in this configuration but we did not build it for that.....Before departure on a few test flights at 4k I was seeing with the autopilot lock on and the plane flying it self 155mph IAS and 170mph TAS this at between 2950-3000 rpm... At first this is not any better than the old demo....but we have the same prop 62 FK 58...and at the same REVs it should go the same speed..and it does....the difference is a whole lot a throttle left to go! The old demo 323AL would turn that prop to 3100revs... @ 5k WOT....the new demo will turn the same prop @ 5k WOT to well above 3300 revs...there is the difference, the ability to run maybe 2" or better more pitch in the prop. Which in turn should give better speed. But heres the real dilemma, the prop will still get 170TAS which is good, but it also turns up more REVs at WOT for takeoff, the ground roll is shorter the climb rate is quicker, so I think this might be still the best choice...but if you don't care about runways lengths and you want a bit more speed I think a 62fk60 may be the answer. Other wise it is performing as expected, the new trim system is as it should be and works great....no more bungees. This aircraft came in @ 823lbs empty, speed kit , interior, dual EFIS, auto pilot, garmin Radio and TXP..... The 30 gallons of fuel is proving to be a nice addition. If you figure 132knts TAS @ 4.2 GPH economy cruise That's 6.5 hours with reserve, 858 nm no wind, and about 31.4 mpg....that make owning a Honda sound boring don't it!...Oh and did I mention we won best Composite homebuilt at Sun N Fun..... Nick -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of scottarden@cox.net Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:29 AM Subject: Lightning-List: Details, Details, Details Hey, Lightning flashes! Now that you've had the hours on the new demonstrator, do tell.... What are the performance numbers shaping up to be? How much better are the speeds? Any weight changes? Distances? Fuel flow? Yada, yada, yada!! Looking forward to hearing the updates!! -- Have a blessed day! Scott C. Arden


    Message 5


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    Time: 01:16:31 PM PST US
    From: "Wayne Lenox" <waynelenox@juno.com>
    Subject: Re: Details, Details, Details
    Now Buz As an old Navy guy I take exception to your comment about the NAVY PILOT S. "(a loose formation - like Navy pilots fly)". In my thoughts the Bl ue Angles are the finest flying group. I would not call there shows a l oose formation. Just having fun with you!!! Wayne -- N1BZRich@aol.com wrote: Scott and all, Nick can probably give you some ball park numbers sinc e he flew it to and from SNF, but since he kind of stayed with the "gagg le" (a loose formation - like Navy pilots fly) of Jabiru aircraft his nu mbers will probably not be optimum. I plan to be in Tennessee in early May (judging at a NIFA contest) and will drop by SYI to do a full flight evaluation like I have previously done on both the prototype and the or iginal demonstrator. Look for it in either the May or June newsletter - it all depends on how much time I have between now and then to get the next issue out. In the mean time, I can tell you from having flown tw o sorties in it for a total of about 2.8 hours, it is the best one yet. Pretty much flies hands off and goes really well. It did not have the gear leg fairings or wheel pants on when I flew it last, so now it will be even better. Blue skies,Buz Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings a ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======== _____________________________________________________________ Click to become a master chef, own a restaurant and make millions. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3m4pCzyrP6kOc4ln0flmza 8KHFo4RYOPD2T4Ipjw21lZe2Ez/


    Message 6


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    Time: 03:10:44 PM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Details, Details, Details
    In a message dated 4/17/2008 4:17:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, waynelenox@juno.com writes: Just having fun with you!!! Hi Wayne, That's exactly the purpose of many of my Navy comments - just to keep the ex Navy guys (friends) on the defensive. And I have to agree with your comment about the "Blues", especially when they do that roll into the 4 ship echelon - you have to know that takes some real skill for #4. The "Birds" only do that in normal fingertip - not a total piece of cake, but certainly #4 in that is much easier. Blue Skies, Buz **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)


    Message 7


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    Time: 03:17:38 PM PST US
    From: Kayberg@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Details, Details, Details
    Not to put too fine a point on it, but it is worth noting to the Light Sport folks............... the rule is 120 knots True Airspeed AT SEA LEVEL So the speed could very well be greater at 5-7000 feet, perhaps Nick was at a higher density altitude than he thought. The static system could also be off. It is quite possible that there is a small tach error that might need correction. Also possible that the speeds will slow down at gross weight. (1320#) So if you are building a Light Sport qualified, be sure to use your calibrated pencil and note the proper information in your pilots handbook, perhaps in the logbook as well. Also lobby for the new wing tips. They look great!!! And yes, Nick, you did mention stealing the award at Sun n Fun. If you are such a hot builder, we should be looking for Grand Champion at Osh Kosh?????? Doug In a message dated 4/17/2008 1:06:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, info@flylightning.net writes: Group, Yes we are back and we have got a good idea of performance but did not get a chance to let it stretch the old legs on the trip due to weather mostly. The trip down, the jabiru folks and the lightning flew in a group. Well mostly a group I was normally out in front a ways checking weather on the route. Most of the trip was at 8k-12k and I had it powered back for economy cruise and to stay somewhat with the group, Average TAS was 132nkts (this is not GS but TAS) @ 4.2 gph and a power setting of 2700-2780rpms. That was the trip down. The trip back was very rough and had to have the power back and airspeed under Va so no good data there, the last 45 minutes although was smooth enough to fly at about 2850rpm..that magic number for LSA and N324AL will run @ 3500ft 145 mph IAS and 138ktns TAS so a bit fast for LSA in this configuration but we did not build it for that.....Before departure on a few test flights at 4k I was seeing with the autopilot lock on and the plane flying it self 155mph IAS and 170mph TAS this at between 2950-3000 rpm... At first this is not any better than the old demo....but we have the same prop 62 FK 58...and at the same REVs it should go the same speed..and it does....the difference is a whole lot a throttle left to go! The old demo 323AL would turn that prop to 3100revs... @ 5k WOT....the new demo will turn the same prop @ 5k WOT to well above 3300 revs...there is the difference, the ability to run maybe 2" or better more pitch in the prop. Which in turn should give better speed. But heres the real dilemma, the prop will still get 170TAS which is good, but it also turns up more REVs at WOT for takeoff, the ground roll is shorter the climb rate is quicker, so I think this might be still the best choice...but if you don't care about runways lengths and you want a bit more speed I think a 62fk60 may be the answer. Other wise it is performing as expected, the new trim system is as it should be and works great....no more bungees. This aircraft came in @ 823lbs empty, speed kit , interior, dual EFIS, auto pilot, garmin Radio and TXP..... The 30 gallons of fuel is proving to be a nice addition. If you figure 132knts TAS @ 4.2 GPH economy cruise That's 6.5 hours with reserve, 858 nm no wind, and about 31.4 mpg....that make owning a Honda sound boring don't it!...Oh and did I mention we won best Composite homebuilt at Sun N Fun..... **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)


    Message 8


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    Time: 04:08:14 PM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Details, Details, Details
    In a message dated 4/17/2008 6:18:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Kayberg@aol.com writes: If you are such a hot builder, we should be looking for Grand Champion at Osh Kosh?????? Do I detect a "small amount" of envy? Just kidding, but as we all know, competition improves the breed. The airplanes I have seen come out of Green Landings are every bit as show quality as those built in Tennessee. Overall I think all the Lightning dealers and builders should start having their airplanes judged - at every fly in you go to that has judging. But a little heads up, the judging standards are a little higher at Oshkosh and the number being judged is higher as well. But we need the judges to start seeing more and more composite airplanes entered for judging. Blue Skies, Buz **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)


    Message 9


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    Time: 05:36:40 PM PST US
    From: Benjamin Smith <pilot@benjamindsmith.com>
    Subject: seriously OFF TOPIC
    It's been about 5 months since I took a plane up... so I spent 1/2 hour today with a CFI getting current. God it felt good! (I've been lurking here forever, wishing I had the time & money to build a lightning) -Ben -- "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." -- Leonardo da Vinci -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.


    Message 10


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    Time: 05:49:54 PM PST US
    From: Kayberg@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Details, Details, Details
    In a message dated 4/17/2008 7:09:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich@aol.com writes: In a message dated 4/17/2008 6:18:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Kayberg@aol.com writes: If you are such a hot builder, we should be looking for Grand Champion at Osh Kosh?????? Do I detect a "small amount" of envy? Just kidding, but as we all know, competition improves the breed. The airplanes I have seen come out of Green Landings are every bit as show quality as those built in Tennessee. Overall I think all the Lightning dealers and builders should start having their airplanes judged - at every fly in you go to that has judging. But a little heads up, the judging standards are a little higher at Oshkosh and the number being judged is higher as well. But we need the judges to start seeing more and more composite airplanes entered for judging. Blue Skies, Buz Yeah, some envy. But that is life. You make a good point about entering Lightnings in fly-in judging. Good for the breed. Our man Buddy has high standards and his own thoughts of how it should be done....and he has built before. His was possibly our combined best effort to date. Probably should have won something...but I think there was some confusion by having it in the Ultralight/light sport area. We are happy to have a good painter, good interior man and keep making refinements. The Shelbyville gang took some detailed pictures of how we did some under-cowling details, so they may make some improvements. We noted their wing and stabilizer attach changes and will try some of that with improvements of our own. I think improving the wing intersection made a difference in the cruise speed that Nick is seeing. But there is another way to do it that is even better. Actually, two ways .... maybe.... So if the cruise will pick up 5 mph with better wing root fairing and the retractable wheel pants adds 5 more, who knows? (Some of you may recall that Jim Bede designed some wheel pants that retracted for ground use and extended to cover the wheels in flight. In his world they made a 15 mph difference. LoPresti has a set that they are selling, but they are both heavy and pricey. Maybe the skunk works can improve on them. The mechanism is simple and easy to copy.) doug **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:06:12 PM PST US
    From: Fry <punga-iwi@netspace.net.au>
    Subject: Re: Details, Details, Details
    You will find the Bede wheel pants here. http://www.bedecorp.com/images/pricelists/bd4_speed_pants.pdf Bill (Australia) Kayberg@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/17/2008 7:09:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > N1BZRich@aol.com writes: > > In a message dated 4/17/2008 6:18:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > Kayberg@aol.com writes: > > If you are such a hot builder, we should be looking for Grand > Champion at Osh Kosh?????? > > Do I detect a "small amount" of envy? Just kidding, but as we all > know, competition improves the breed. The airplanes I have seen > come out of Green Landings are every bit as show quality as those > built in Tennessee. Overall I think all the Lightning dealers and > builders should start having their airplanes judged - at every fly > in you go to that has judging. But a little heads up, the judging > standards are a little higher at Oshkosh and the number being > judged is higher as well. But we need the judges to start seeing > more and more composite airplanes entered for judging. > Blue Skies, > Buz > > Yeah, some envy. But that is life. You make a good point about > entering Lightnings in fly-in judging. Good for the breed. > > Our man Buddy has high standards and his own thoughts of how it should > be done....and he has built before. His was possibly our combined > best effort to date. Probably should have won something...but I think > there was some confusion by having it in the Ultralight/light sport > area. We are happy to have a good painter, good interior man and keep > making refinements. The Shelbyville gang took some detailed pictures > of how we did some under-cowling details, so they may make some > improvements. We noted their wing and stabilizer attach changes and > will try some of that with improvements of our own. > > I think improving the wing intersection made a difference in the > cruise speed that Nick is seeing. But there is another way to do it > that is even better. Actually, two ways .... maybe.... > > So if the cruise will pick up 5 mph with better wing root fairing and > the retractable wheel pants adds 5 more, who knows? > > (Some of you may recall that Jim Bede designed some wheel pants that > retracted for ground use and extended to cover the wheels in flight. > In his world they made a 15 mph difference. LoPresti has a set that > they are selling, but they are both heavy and pricey. Maybe the > skunk works can improve on them. The mechanism is simple and easy to > copy.) > > doug > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings > at AOL Autos <http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851>. > * > > > *




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