---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/17/08: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:24 AM - email (Tex Mantell) 2. 05:07 AM - Re: email (James, Clive R) 3. 05:13 AM - Re: email (Gary & Laura Pennington) 4. 06:49 AM - Re: email (James, Clive R) 5. 07:46 AM - Re: email (Colin J. Kennedy) 6. 08:57 AM - Re: email (Gary & Laura Pennington) 7. 09:25 AM - Re: email (James, Clive R) 8. 09:26 AM - Re: email (Colin J. Kennedy) 9. 03:53 PM - Seat height and width for new Lightning interior (mcjon77) 10. 06:12 PM - Re: email (Tex Mantell) 11. 06:12 PM - Re: email (Tex Mantell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:10 AM PST US From: "Tex Mantell" Subject: Lightning-List: email sure is quite arround here. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:02 AM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: email From: "James, Clive R" Quite what? Quite quiet I'd say.....:-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tex Mantell Sent: 17 May 2008 12:21 Subject: Lightning-List: email sure is quite arround here. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:15 AM PST US From: "Gary & Laura Pennington" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: email No kidding! I was thinking the same thing. Last week, I ask if there were any reliability issues with the Jabiru 3300. (I'm going to use the Jab in my Lightning). No response. I guess they are 100% reliable. Great! Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Tex Mantell To: lightning List Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 4:21 AM Subject: Lightning-List: email sure is quite arround here. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:53 AM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: email From: "James, Clive R" Good to stimulate some discussion Tex + I too though Gary would get plenty of info. For 3300 reliability look to the Yahoo Jabiru engines list, but like many things folk only tend to speak up when there are problems. We don't say 'I've just had another trouble free flight what a wonderful engine, I must tell everyone. The do soon chirp up when they have a problem, hence the engine forums are full of problems and if you review them alone you'll think the Jabiru engine, including the 3300 is a pile of rubbish. I've experience of both the 2200 and the 3300, they have their problems slightly more so than any other engine I hear about (Rotax Lyc Cont). The simplicity, economy and smoothness of the Jabiru engines sway me to prefer them to the other options. One comparison I would make is the 3300 seem to have less issues than the 2200. Probably because they are generally further down the Jabiru development calendar and maybe cause they are generally under less strain. Whether that will apply into the future remains to be seen. The very latest 3300 seems to have been sorted after Jabiru made a few 'adjustments' and I think you'll get a very fine engine! Certainly when it comes to matching and engine to an airframe the lightning has it spot on, I don't think there is an option that is even near close to being worth using. Regards, Clive BTW, I now have the sound certificate exemption to go with the permit to fly for my Esqual, next the insurance and then the UK CAA exemption all timed for the good weather and my leave in the summer. Getting closer!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary & Laura Pennington Sent: 17 May 2008 13:11 Subject: Re: Lightning-List: email No kidding! I was thinking the same thing. Last week, I ask if there were any reliability issues with the Jabiru 3300. (I'm going to use the Jab in my Lightning). No response. I guess they are 100% reliable. Great! Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Tex Mantell To: lightning List Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 4:21 AM Subject: Lightning-List: email sure is quite arround here. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:39 AM PST US From: "Colin J. Kennedy" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: email Hi Tex, A long silence and no activity from me! I have been mulling over how I can better align the spar bolts/wing roots/spar box halves without many more trial and error attempts and consequently larger and larger holes for the spar box bolts in the wing roots each time. I know that you can flox & epoxy them at the end, but it's still better to keep them as small as possible. I have not made much progress on that, but I have decided that it is a three man job to put the spar bolts in - one on each wing tip and one holding the bolts. Until now I have had someone on just one wing tip at a time, while I do the spar bolts. I have a set of longer bolts that I have filed to a point to help get them in and align everything. I have done this, but it is still not yet well enough aligned to fit the original bolts. The builder of a flying Jabiru had a look at my Lightning. He had what I think is a very good suggestion for checking the wing angle of incidence which does not depend on the fuselage being level in the longitudinal or lateral axis, or having a level floor, or on placing an angle measurement gauge on exactly the same place on each wing with a jig. Take a clear plastic tube with water in it. Line one wing up with the wing root. Line the water level at one end up with the leading edge where the wing meets the root. The tube goes under the wing and up to the trailing edge. Measure the distance from the water level at the other end, to the trailing edge. This measurement is the vertical height difference between the leading and trailing edges. Do the same on the other wing and adjust the wing position until the measurement is the same. Since the wing chord is the same, when you have set the vertical height difference the same, you have set the incidence angle the same on each wing. What do you think? Colin K. OK Lightning # 52 under construction. http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tex Mantell Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 6:21 AM Subject: Lightning-List: email sure is quite arround here. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:38 AM PST US From: "Gary & Laura Pennington" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: email MessageHow would you know you have the angle of incedence right on the first wing? Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin J. Kennedy To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 7:43 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: email Hi Tex, A long silence and no activity from me! I have been mulling over how I can better align the spar bolts/wing roots/spar box halves without many more trial and error attempts and consequently larger and larger holes for the spar box bolts in the wing roots each time. I know that you can flox & epoxy them at the end, but it's still better to keep them as small as possible. I have not made much progress on that, but I have decided that it is a three man job to put the spar bolts in - one on each wing tip and one holding the bolts. Until now I have had someone on just one wing tip at a time, while I do the spar bolts. I have a set of longer bolts that I have filed to a point to help get them in and align everything. I have done this, but it is still not yet well enough aligned to fit the original bolts. The builder of a flying Jabiru had a look at my Lightning. He had what I think is a very good suggestion for checking the wing angle of incidence which does not depend on the fuselage being level in the longitudinal or lateral axis, or having a level floor, or on placing an angle measurement gauge on exactly the same place on each wing with a jig. Take a clear plastic tube with water in it. Line one wing up with the wing root. Line the water level at one end up with the leading edge where the wing meets the root. The tube goes under the wing and up to the trailing edge. Measure the distance from the water level at the other end, to the trailing edge. This measurement is the vertical height difference between the leading and trailing edges. Do the same on the other wing and adjust the wing position until the measurement is the same. Since the wing chord is the same, when you have set the vertical height difference the same, you have set the incidence angle the same on each wing. What do you think? Colin K. OK Lightning # 52 under construction. http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tex Mantell Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 6:21 AM To: lightning List Subject: Lightning-List: email sure is quite arround here. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:26 AM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: email From: "James, Clive R" I did mine by lining the wings up with the 'Karman' which is Spanish for 'wing root shape' on the fuselage. After bolting it all up I went over it like a rash with a digital spirit level and it was as near as I could measure. I wait with baited breath on whether it flies with asymmetrical flap but live in hope. One point though, my Jabiru has a tweaked flap to get it to fly straight, the 'wings' are as level with each other as I can measure and it seems to be the wing shape rather than the angle that is making it fly lop sided. I have some eccentric bushes and one take I'm going to have a tweak at the root to see if I can trim it out. These have been used where the flaps trimming was too excessive. Is there a concern with the lighting that the fuselage isn't a good enough template? CJ -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary & Laura Pennington Sent: 17 May 2008 16:55 Subject: Re: Lightning-List: email How would you know you have the angle of incedence right on the first wing? Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin J. Kennedy To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 7:43 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: email Hi Tex, A long silence and no activity from me! I have been mulling over how I can better align the spar bolts/wing roots/spar box halves without many more trial and error attempts and consequently larger and larger holes for the spar box bolts in the wing roots each time. I know that you can flox & epoxy them at the end, but it's still better to keep them as small as possible. I have not made much progress on that, but I have decided that it is a three man job to put the spar bolts in - one on each wing tip and one holding the bolts. Until now I have had someone on just one wing tip at a time, while I do the spar bolts. I have a set of longer bolts that I have filed to a point to help get them in and align everything. I have done this, but it is still not yet well enough aligned to fit the original bolts. The builder of a flying Jabiru had a look at my Lightning. He had what I think is a very good suggestion for checking the wing angle of incidence which does not depend on the fuselage being level in the longitudinal or lateral axis, or having a level floor, or on placing an angle measurement gauge on exactly the same place on each wing with a jig. Take a clear plastic tube with water in it. Line one wing up with the wing root. Line the water level at one end up with the leading edge where the wing meets the root. The tube goes under the wing and up to the trailing edge. Measure the distance from the water level at the other end, to the trailing edge. This measurement is the vertical height difference between the leading and trailing edges. Do the same on the other wing and adjust the wing position until the measurement is the same. Since the wing chord is the same, when you have set the vertical height difference the same, you have set the incidence angle the same on each wing. What do you think? Colin K. OK Lightning # 52 under construction. http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tex Mantell Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 6:21 AM To: lightning List Subject: Lightning-List: email sure is quite arround here. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:54 AM PST US From: "Colin J. Kennedy" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: email This method ensures that the angle of incidence is the same for both wings, but it does not set it to any given value. In fact the manual gives no value. I don't think you have any other reference than the wing root for the first wing. Even with the spar bolts in place the wings can be rotated a few degrees until the angle of incidence bolts are put in place. Colin K. OK Lightning # 52 under construction. http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary & Laura Pennington Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: email How would you know you have the angle of incedence right on the first wing? Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin J. Kennedy Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 7:43 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: email Hi Tex, A long silence and no activity from me! I have been mulling over how I can better align the spar bolts/wing roots/spar box halves without many more trial and error attempts and consequently larger and larger holes for the spar box bolts in the wing roots each time. I know that you can flox & epoxy them at the end, but it's still better to keep them as small as possible. I have not made much progress on that, but I have decided that it is a three man job to put the spar bolts in - one on each wing tip and one holding the bolts. Until now I have had someone on just one wing tip at a time, while I do the spar bolts. I have a set of longer bolts that I have filed to a point to help get them in and align everything. I have done this, but it is still not yet well enough aligned to fit the original bolts. The builder of a flying Jabiru had a look at my Lightning. He had what I think is a very good suggestion for checking the wing angle of incidence which does not depend on the fuselage being level in the longitudinal or lateral axis, or having a level floor, or on placing an angle measurement gauge on exactly the same place on each wing with a jig. Take a clear plastic tube with water in it. Line one wing up with the wing root. Line the water level at one end up with the leading edge where the wing meets the root. The tube goes under the wing and up to the trailing edge. Measure the distance from the water level at the other end, to the trailing edge. This measurement is the vertical height difference between the leading and trailing edges. Do the same on the other wing and adjust the wing position until the measurement is the same. Since the wing chord is the same, when you have set the vertical height difference the same, you have set the incidence angle the same on each wing. What do you think? Colin K. OK Lightning # 52 under construction. http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tex Mantell Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 6:21 AM Subject: Lightning-List: email sure is quite arround here. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:29 PM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Seat height and width for new Lightning interior From: "mcjon77" Hi everyone, I'm new here and will be purchasing and building a homebuilt aircraft this fall. I read on this forum that there were previously concerns regarding seat height and width for tall/wide pilots. I have heard that the new interior provides much more room, but haven't found any specific numbers yet. Does anyone know the seat height (height from the seat cushion to the canopy) and seat width of the new interior? I have a sitting height of 38 inches and I would like to know If I will fit. I'll be at Oshkosh to check it out personally, but it would be nice to have the numbers beforehand. Thanks in advance, Jon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183574#183574 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:21 PM PST US From: "Tex Mantell" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: email MessageColin, I think your method is ok and the wings being the same is the finnally point to get to. I took two bolts and tappered them down to a point and aditional 50 thousands off down the entire lenght of the bolt, so they went in easier, you will have them on and off many times. Get to know your neighbors real well and keep the beer on ice. Tex ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin J. Kennedy To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: email Hi Tex, A long silence and no activity from me! I have been mulling over how I can better align the spar bolts/wing roots/spar box halves without many more trial and error attempts and consequently larger and larger holes for the spar box bolts in the wing roots each time. I know that you can flox & epoxy them at the end, but it's still better to keep them as small as possible. I have not made much progress on that, but I have decided that it is a three man job to put the spar bolts in - one on each wing tip and one holding the bolts. Until now I have had someone on just one wing tip at a time, while I do the spar bolts. I have a set of longer bolts that I have filed to a point to help get them in and align everything. I have done this, but it is still not yet well enough aligned to fit the original bolts. The builder of a flying Jabiru had a look at my Lightning. He had what I think is a very good suggestion for checking the wing angle of incidence which does not depend on the fuselage being level in the longitudinal or lateral axis, or having a level floor, or on placing an angle measurement gauge on exactly the same place on each wing with a jig. Take a clear plastic tube with water in it. Line one wing up with the wing root. Line the water level at one end up with the leading edge where the wing meets the root. The tube goes under the wing and up to the trailing edge. Measure the distance from the water level at the other end, to the trailing edge. This measurement is the vertical height difference between the leading and trailing edges. Do the same on the other wing and adjust the wing position until the measurement is the same. Since the wing chord is the same, when you have set the vertical height difference the same, you have set the incidence angle the same on each wing. What do you think? Colin K. OK Lightning # 52 under construction. http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tex Mantell Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 6:21 AM To: lightning List Subject: Lightning-List: email sure is quite arround here. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:21 PM PST US From: "Tex Mantell" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: email MessageIF you match the wing to the fuse your going to be real close. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary & Laura Pennington To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: email How would you know you have the angle of incedence right on the first wing? Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin J. Kennedy To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 7:43 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: email Hi Tex, A long silence and no activity from me! I have been mulling over how I can better align the spar bolts/wing roots/spar box halves without many more trial and error attempts and consequently larger and larger holes for the spar box bolts in the wing roots each time. I know that you can flox & epoxy them at the end, but it's still better to keep them as small as possible. I have not made much progress on that, but I have decided that it is a three man job to put the spar bolts in - one on each wing tip and one holding the bolts. Until now I have had someone on just one wing tip at a time, while I do the spar bolts. I have a set of longer bolts that I have filed to a point to help get them in and align everything. I have done this, but it is still not yet well enough aligned to fit the original bolts. The builder of a flying Jabiru had a look at my Lightning. He had what I think is a very good suggestion for checking the wing angle of incidence which does not depend on the fuselage being level in the longitudinal or lateral axis, or having a level floor, or on placing an angle measurement gauge on exactly the same place on each wing with a jig. Take a clear plastic tube with water in it. Line one wing up with the wing root. Line the water level at one end up with the leading edge where the wing meets the root. The tube goes under the wing and up to the trailing edge. Measure the distance from the water level at the other end, to the trailing edge. This measurement is the vertical height difference between the leading and trailing edges. Do the same on the other wing and adjust the wing position until the measurement is the same. Since the wing chord is the same, when you have set the vertical height difference the same, you have set the incidence angle the same on each wing. What do you think? Colin K. OK Lightning # 52 under construction. http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tex Mantell Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 6:21 AM To: lightning List Subject: Lightning-List: email sure is quite arround here. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.