---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/08/08: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:41 AM - Esqual rudder authority (Malcolm Ferguson) 2. 04:29 AM - Re: Thoughts on new wingtips? (Wayne Lenox) 3. 04:31 AM - Re: Thoughts on new wingtips? (jhausch) 4. 04:50 AM - Re: Esqual rudder authority (Brian Whittingham) 5. 04:55 AM - Re: Re: Thoughts on new wingtips? (Brian Whittingham) 6. 05:53 AM - Re: Thoughts on new wingtips? (GARY PENNINGTON) 7. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Fatal Lightning Aircraft Crash (Daniel DW) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:48 AM PST US From: "Malcolm Ferguson" Subject: Lightning-List: Esqual rudder authority Hi to you Esqual drivers out there. If you have a problem with lack of rudder authority in xwinds just add a couple of vortex generators to either side of your vertical stabilizer. I guarantee you will not complain about lack of rudder again. Don't want to be ham fisted with the clod hoppers in cruise though. Malcolm Ferguson ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:57 AM PST US From: "Wayne Lenox" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Thoughts on new wingtips? Gary My airport is AZ05. Gila Bend AZ. I will not be there until November w ith N123WL. Hope to finish build by end of June. My wife and I are in Shelbyville,TN for summer and it is very HOT. Wayne -- "GARY PENNINGTON" wrote: Hello WayneYou say you live out West? I live in Tucson, Arizona. Gary- ---- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Lenox To: lightning-list@matroni cs.com Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 3:31 PMSubject: Re: Lightning-List: Thoughts on new wingtips? Brian My Lightning is in build and has the new tips. I like the look and hope the preformance. Nick has flown the test bed Lightning and did report on its preformance. I live out west and will fly above 9000ft much of t he time, the tips should help. Wayne -- Brian Whittingham wrote: To all, I want to know what you all think about the new wingtip exten sions. Do you like the look of the increased wingspan? Do you like the wingtips and how they flare out at the end? Anybody planning on orderi ng a set? I want to hear from both sport pilot and non-sport pilot buil ders alike. I'd like to kind of get a tally of which group wants them m ore. It's something that will really allow the sport pilots to maximize their aircraft while at the same time, I believe it will allow for non sport pilots to add looks and climb performance, and probably a slight d ecrease in fuel consumption at cruise. Brian W. Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Windows Live=99 Messenger. Add them now! ist">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Lightning-Listtronics.comwww.matronics.com/contribution ____________________________________________________________ Make your vacation more memorable with a luxurious vacation rental. Clic k now! title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http:/ /www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?Lightning-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums .matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www. ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ____________________________________________________________ Smart Girls Secret Weapon Read Unbiased Beauty Product Reviews, Get Helpful Tips, Tricks and Sam http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/JKFkuJi7U3xexJJ87RjT1mE132WN hncpY8UpLEAbAbo2dYnJLqH20L/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:35 AM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Thoughts on new wingtips? From: "jhausch" I think they look good, but I do not think I'd take the option. Performance with standard tips appears to be more than acceptable. It would be neat to see the standard "short" tips with the upswept feature and maybe integrated areas for the nav lights. However, that's what I'd call a "low-priority-want". Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186765#186765 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:23 AM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Esqual rudder authority Malcolm, Thanks for that, that is a definate good way to fix it. Evidently works well too huh? Brian W.> From: malannx@bigpond.com> To: lightning-list@matr onics.com> Subject: Lightning-List: Esqual rudder authority> Date: Sun, 8 J un 2008 17:38:51 +1000> > Hi to you Esqual drivers out there. If you have a problem with lack of > rudder authority in xwinds just add a couple of vor tex generators to either > side of your vertical stabilizer. I guarantee yo u will not complain about > lack of rudder again. Don't want to be ham fist ed with the clod hoppers in > cruise though.> Malcolm Ferguson _________________________________________________________________ It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Wi ndows Live=99 Messenger. Learn how. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnHow ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:18 AM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re: Thoughts on new wingtips? Selwyn basically pointed out the reasoning. With a very low cruise altitud e it probably wouldn't do much, but an extra foot or so on the end of the w ing will not add too much drag. If the upswept does anything it will help not only to counteract any loss of performance due to drag, but also act as if it were an even longer span wing. I am encouraged by no perceived loss of roll. If you want to see an example of a wing that was made longer and increased cruise speed just go to the Smithsonian. Howard Hughes racer ha d two sets of wings. The clipped set was for low altitude straight line sp eed and the longer wings were for cross country cruise performance. The de crease in wing loading helps with fuel consumption as well. Brian W.> Subj ect: Lightning-List: Re: Thoughts on new wingtips?> From: selwyn@ellisworks .com.au> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:33:55 -0700> To: lightning-list@matronics om.au>> > [quote> Hmmm,> Hold on a minute...with an higher aspect ratio(amo ng other things) it is possible the cruise at altitude can actually INCREAS E!> Does it with the new tips?> I don't know...we shall see!> Rick > N727RB > /quote> > Yep, you are quite correct. I didn=C2=B4t want to get into a di scussion of aerodynamics with all it=C2=B4s complexities and was thinking a bout low density altitudes. Where I am, most flying is below 5000 and almos t never above 8500 due to a combination of regulation and terrain. At those levels a Lightning, with its wing loading, will have a low angle of attack at cruise and probably won=C2=B4t gain much simply from the increased area supplied by the tips.> Cheers.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > ht ==> > > _________________________________________________________________ Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join yo u on Windows Live=99 Messenger. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_InviteFriends ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:30 AM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Thoughts on new wingtips? Hello Wayne I know what you mean about hot. As you know, Tucson, (and Gila Bend), are hot too. I have flown over to Gila Bend a couple times. Very little air traffic from Tucson. My kit will ship by the end of June. I've got a long way to go. Have fun with the build. I look forward to seeing photos. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Lenox To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 4:25 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Thoughts on new wingtips? Gary My airport is AZ05. Gila Bend AZ. I will not be there until November with N123WL. Hope to finish build by end of June. My wife and I are in Shelbyville,TN for summer and it is very HOT. Wayne -- "GARY PENNINGTON" > wrote: Hello Wayne You say you live out West? I live in Tucson, Arizona. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Lenox To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 3:31 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Thoughts on new wingtips? Brian My Lightning is in build and has the new tips. I like the look and hope the preformance. Nick has flown the test bed Lightning and did report on its preformance. I live out west and will fly above 9000ft much of the time, the tips should help. Wayne -- Brian Whittingham > wrote: To all, I want to know what you all think about the new wingtip extensions. Do you like the look of the increased wingspan? Do you like the wingtips and how they flare out at the end? Anybody planning on ordering a set? I want to hear from both sport pilot and non-sport pilot builders alike. I'd like to kind of get a tally of which group wants them more. It's something that will really allow the sport pilots to maximize their aircraft while at the same time, I believe it will allow for non sport pilots to add looks and climb performance, and probably a slight decrease in fuel consumption at cruise. Brian W. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Windows Live=99 Messenger. Add them now! ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List tronics.com www.matronics.com/contribution ____________________________________________________________ Make your vacation more memorable with a luxurious vacation rental. Click now! title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List tronics.com www.matronics.com/contribution ____________________________________________________________ Smart Girls Secret Weapon Read Unbiased Beauty Product Reviews, Get Helpful Tips, Tricks and Sam http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:47 PM PST US From: Daniel DW Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re: Fatal Lightning Aircraft Crash Clive, I've read about it. Seems to be the extension for the prop that came loose. .. On the engine that I bought, did you put on this extension yourself? If yes, were the bolts long enough? What Loctite have you used? Any progress with your Esqual? Regards Danny Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re: Fatal Lightning Aircraft CrashDate: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 15:55:44 +0100From: clive.james@uk.bp.comTo: lightning-list@matro nics.comSome info to be gleaned from the Jabiru engines lists, CJ -----Ori ginal Message-----From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:ow ner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jhauschSent: 06 June 2008 15:28To: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Lightning-List: Re: Fata Respectfully, when might we get some add'l news on t his unfortunateaccident? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matr onics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186489#186489 --Doorgestuurd bericht in de bijlage--Subject: [jabiruengines] Digest Numbe r 3346Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:49:22 +0100From: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.c omTo: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.comjabiru engines M essages In This Digest (4 Messages) 1.1. Re: Prop Hub From: Pete 1.2. Re: Prop Hub From: Tom Covell 2a. Prop Bolts From: Bill Evans 3. Ins talling Propellers From: Bill Evans View All Topics | Create NewTopic Messages 1.1. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Pete" pete@flylightning.net usjabiru Thu Jun 5, 2008 6:03 am (PDT) All kits fr om Arion aircraft are built as Experimental AmateurBuilt. They are not elig ible for an LSA certificate of any kind. Pete _____ From: jabiruengines @yahoogroups.com[mailto:jabiruengin es@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of I van Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 8:50 PM To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.co m Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Pro p Hub Tom, If your plane was built by Arion then it is an S-LSA. If it was built by you then it is probably an E-LSA. Ivan ----- Original Message --- -- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: RE: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Ivan, I don't know if it was an E or S. I also have the 3300 andSensinich ground adjustable. I guess I didn't realize the prop hub bolts had tobe torqued every 25 hours--thanks for the info. Tom _____ From: jabiruengines@ yaho ogroups.com [mailto:jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:15 AM To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Tom Is you Arion Lightining an S-LS A or E-LSA. If it is an S-LSA Iam curious to see what kind of input Arion a t Shelbyville has to add. Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Cov ell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups .com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:25 AM Subject: RE: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Ivan, An Arion Lightining and a Sensinich ground adjustable. __ ___ From: jabiruengines@ yahoogr oups.com [mailto:jabiruengines@ ya hoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:00 PM To: j abiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Subje ct: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub On what kind of airplane was the installa tion and what kind ofprop? Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom C ovell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Preliminary info is that 4of th e bolts were sheared and two were pulled out of thecrankshaft. I understan d that Jabiru engineers are looking at it tomorrow.Lots of speculation inc luding proper Loc-tite (blue?) and proper torque. Might check yours. [Non- text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of thi s message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this mes sage have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply togroup | Reply via web post M essages in this topic (38) 1.2. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Tom Covell" tomcovell@theriver. comdesertfloat s Thu Jun 5, 2008 6:11 am (PDT) Ivan, It wasn't my prop hub that came off. I have a Rans S-6S that Iam waiting for the DAR to inspect so I can go fly. I see Joe Hollars gothis in spection OK(Congrats) _____ From: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com[mailto:jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 6:50 PM To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Tom, If your plane was built by Arion then it is an S-LSA. If it wasbuilt by you then it is p robably an E-LSA. Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Se nt: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: RE: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Ivan, I don't know if it was an E or S. I also have the 3300 andSensinic h ground adjustable. I guess I didn't realize the prop hub bolts had tobe t orqued every 25 hours--thanks for the info. Tom _____ From: jabiruengi nes@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:jabir uengines@ yahoogroups.com] On Beha lf Of Ivan Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:15 AM To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengi nes] Prop Hub Tom Is you Arion Lightining an S-LSA or E-LSA. If it is an S -LSA Iam curious to see what kind of input Arion at Shelbyville has to add. Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ < mailto:jabiruengines%40yahoogroups.com>yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, Ju ne 04, 2008 10:25 AM Subject: RE: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Ivan, An Arion Lightining and a Sensinich ground adjustable. _____ From: jabiruengines @ yahoogroups.com [mailto:jabiruen gines@ yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:00 PM To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] P rop Hub On what kind of airplane was the installation and what kind ofprop ? Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, Ju ne 03, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub We had a prop hub co me off of a 3300. Preliminary info is that 4of the bolts were sheared and two were pulled out of thecrankshaft. I understand that Jabiru engineers a re looking at it tomorrow.Lots of speculation including proper Loc-tite (b lue?) and proper torque. Might check yours. [Non-text portions of this mes sage have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been remov ed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text porti ons of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply togroup | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (38) 2a. Prop Bolts Posted by: "Bill Evans" wwevans@enter-net.com bil438 Thu Jun 5, 2008 8:45 am (PDT) Someone wrote In a message dated 6/4 /2008 2:14:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, imap8ntr@cox.net writes: 180-200 ft-lbs ? Wow! That's a lot! I read the posting to be 180-200 inch pounds not foot pounds. Stil l it would be helpful to know whether there was a propextension installed Also the jabiru engine perform best with wooden propellers. Thisis one of the reasons why . It's very possible that vibration betweenthe ground adju stable prop and the engine caused these bolts toshake loose. I also think i t wise to mention that when you lockwire propbolts you use .050" Inconel L ockwire. They should be lockwired in pairs toprevent embrittlement of the wire. If you lockwire the nuts, you can see the lockwire withoutremoving th e spinner. Bill Evans 2200a Back to top Reply to sender | Reply togroup | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (2) 3. Installing Propellers Posted by: "Bill Evans" wwevans@e nter-net.combil438 Thu Jun 5, 2008 8:48 am (PDT) There is an old EAA Video on Installing Propellers by the Great A merican Propeller Company. I haven't seen them advertise foryears. Anyway I 've watched that video numerous times and consider it tobe gospel on insta lling propellers. I highly recommend it. Bill E 2200a Back to top Reply to sender |Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity * 9 New Members * 2 New Photos Visit Your Group Y! Sports for TV Access it for free Get Fantasy Sports stats on your TV. Yahoo! News Odd News You won't believe it, but it's true Yahoo! F inance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Need to Reply? Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in theDaily Digest. Crea te New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines;_ylc=X3oDMTJjMjlzaWxpBF9TAzk3 MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI3NzI3ODIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg2MDgzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwBHN 0aW1lAzEyMTI3NDU3NjI-> Messages | Fil es | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar M ARKETPLACEBlockbuster is giving away a free trial of Blockbuster Total Acce ss tosmart movie lovers like you. Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe --Doorgestuurd bericht in de bijlage--Subject: [jabiruengines] Digest Numbe r 3345Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 12:09:25 +0100From: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.c omTo: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.comjabiru engines M essages In This Digest (22 Messages) 1a. Alternator stator loose From: Ian Clark 1b. Re: Alternator stator loose From: n282rs@satx.rr.com 2.1. Re: Prop Hub From: Greg Bakker 2.2. Re: Prop Hub From: Tom Covell 2.3. Re: Prop Hub From: Tom Covell 2.4. Re: Prop Hub From: Tom Covell 2.5. Re: Prop Hub From: Ivan 2.6. Re: Prop Hub From: Ivan 2.7. Re: Prop Hub From: palmettoe@aol.com 2.8. Re: Prop Hub From: Ivan 2.9. Re: Prop Hub From: Gerald Boughner 2.10. Re: Prop Hub From: Tom Covell 2.11. Re: Pr op Hub From: Ivan 2.12. Re: Prop Hub From: Ivan 2.13. Re: Prop Hub From : Pete 2.14. Re: Prop Hub From: Richard Williams 2.15. Re: Prop Hub Fro m: Ivan 2.16. Re: Prop Hub From: palmettoe@aol.com 3. Prop bolts shear ed. From: Bill Evans 4. Re: Where are comments from Jabiru USA? From: Iv an 5. when? who? rebuilding the jab 2200 carburator?? From: billshamblin 6. Fw: ivan-POH weight / balance / IDE4/ ASI From: Ivan View All Top ics | Create New Topic Messages 1a. Alternator stato r loose Posted by: "Ian Clark" iclark@rcn.comiancti Wed Jun 4, 2008 4:08 am (PDT) My alternator stator came loose on my last flight i t makes aloud whining noise at low rpm that clears when you raise the rpm. Thereis about 6 clicks per rev when you rotate the prop by hand. I have not checked the extent of the damage yet. I have a 3300 with about 200 hours on it Ian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to t op Reply to sender | Replyto group | Reply via web post Messages in thi s topic (2) 1b. Re: Alternator stator loose Posted by: "n282rs@satx.rr.com" n282rs@satx. rr.comr5t0ut21 Wed Jun 4, 2008 6:33 am (PDT) Ian That happened to me on my way back from Copperstate last y ear.For me, the whirring noise was only there at lower engine speeds. Inoti ced it first when I throttled back to land at Ft. Stockton, TX. Itook it ap art as best I could with the couple of tools I had and it justseemed that a couple of the screws were loose. I just tightened them andcontinued my fig ht to San Antonio the next morning. Again the same noisehappened when I thr ottled back to land at home. I disassembled the whole thing and found tha t 3 of the 4 screwsthat hold the stator in place had broke off. I didn't se e any evidenceof the magnets hitting the stator. I had made a bracket to su pport theEllison throttle body that I have. The bolts for this bracket atta ch ina couple of empty holes in the same area, so I wondered if they mighth ave penetrated far enough to distort the stator. I ended up replacing the stator mounting screws with AN-3 boltsand added an extra washer under my E llison bracket. That way I was surethey didn't hit the stator. I also slid a piece of paper between themagnets and stator to verify that there is clea rance all around. Itsbeen working for about 30 hours now and I keep a close eye on it. Randy Stout San Antonio TX www.geocities.com/n282rs ----- Original Message----- From: "Ian Clark" > Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:11:03 To: > Subject: [jabiruengines] Alte rnator stator loose My alternator stator came loose on my last flight it makes aloud whining noise at low rpm that clears when you raise the rpm. T hereis about 6 clicks per rev when you rotate the prop by hand. I have notc hecked the extent of the damage yet. I have a 3300 with about 200 hours on it Ian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to to p Reply to sender| Reply to group | Reply via web post Messag es in this topic (2) 2.1. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Greg Bakker" gregbakker@hotkey.net.a ugregbakker2 001 Wed Jun 4, 2008 5:50 am ( PDT) What aircraft/propeller combination is this, tractor or pusher?I ass ume you are talking about the standard Jabiru 2" extension as youmention t hat bolts were "pulled out of the crankshaft" These would have been lockwi red would they not? So would torque be an issue? Unless they were torquedi ncorrectly at installation. We need some more information here I feel. Gr eg Bakker Hamilton, Victoria Australia www.varieze.net ----- Original Mess age ----- From: "Tom Covell" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 12:01 PM Subject: [jabirueng ines] Prop Hub > We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Preliminary info is that4 of > the bolts were sheared and two were pulled out of thecrankshaft . I > understand that Jabiru engineers are looking at it tomorrow.Lots of > speculation including proper Loc-tite (blue?) and propertorque. > Might ch eck yours. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups L inks > > > > > __________ NOD32 3156 (20080603) Information __________ > > > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply togroup | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (36) 2.2. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Tom Covell" tomcovell@theriver.comdesertfloats Wed Jun 4, 2008 10:27 am (PDT) Ivan, An Ar ion Lightining and a Sensinich ground adjustable. _____ From: jabiruengi nes@yahoogroups.com[mailto:jabiruen gines@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf O f Ivan Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:00 PM To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.c om Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Pr op Hub On what kind of airplane was the installation and what kind ofprop? Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, Jun e 03, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub We had a prop hub com e off of a 3300. Preliminary info is that 4of the bolts were sheared and t wo were pulled out of thecrankshaft. I understand that Jabiru engineers ar e looking at it tomorrow.Lots of speculation including proper Loc-tite (bl ue?) and proper torque. Might check yours. [Non-text portions of this mess age have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been remove d] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply togroup | Reply via web post Messages in this topi c (36) 2.3. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Tom Covell" tomcovell@theriver.comdesertfloats Wed Jun 4, 2008 10:28 am (PDT) Yes it was the f lange coming off the crankshaft and yes it wassafety wired. _____ From: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com[mailt o:jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com ] O n Behalf Of John Lamb Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 12:56 AM To: jabirueng ines@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub And was it the hub of the prop coming off the fla nge, or theflange coming off the crankshaft? I assume from the reference to Loctite that it was the latter.Were the nuts lock wired? John Lamb On 04/06/2008, at 2:00 PM, Ivan wrote: > On what kind of airplane was the in stallation and what kind ofprop? > Ivan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tom Covell > To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:01 PM > Subject: [jabi ruengines] Prop Hub > > We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Preliminary i nfo is that4 of > the bolts were sheared and two were pulled out of thecran kshaft. I > understand that Jabiru engineers are looking at it tomorrow.Lot s of > speculation including proper Loc-tite (blue?) and propertorque. > Mi ght check yours. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text po rtions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply togroup < mailto:jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com?Subject= Re%3A%20Prop%20Hub>| Reply via web post Messages in this topic (36) 2.4. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Tom Covell" tomcovell@theriver.comdesertfloats Wed Jun 4, 2008 10:34 am (PDT) Gregg, It was a tractor installation. It was lock wired and because, asI understand it, the bolts are "loose fit" it seems th at thetorque and Loc-tite would be an issue. _____ From: jabiruengines@y ahoogroups.com[mailto:jabiruengines @yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Gre g Bakker Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 5:50 AM To: jabiruengines@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines ] Prop Hub What aircraft/propeller combination is this, tractor or pusher? I assume you are talking about the standard Jabiru 2" extension as youment ion that bolts were "pulled out of the crankshaft" These would have been l ockwired would they not? So would torque be an issue? Unless they were tor quedincorrectly at installation. We need some more information here I feel . Greg Bakker Hamilton, Victoria Australia www.varieze.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Covell" com> To: yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 12:01 PM Subject: [jab iruengines] Prop Hub > We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Preliminary i nfo is that4 of > the bolts were sheared and two were pulled out of thecran kshaft. I > understand that Jabiru engineers are looking at it tomorrow.Lot s of > speculation including proper Loc-tite (blue?) and propertorque. > Mi ght check yours. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Gr oups Links > > > > > __________ NOD32 3156 (20080603) Information _________ _ >com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back t o top Reply to sender | Reply togroup | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (36) 2.5. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Ivan" imap8ntr@cox.net ivanbrauer Wed J un 4, 2008 11:13 am (PDT) I have a Sensinich prop ground adjustable on my J-250 which is aS-LSA built by USA Jabiru. The Sensinich manual says to to rque themounting bolts to 180-200 ft-lbs only annually. The hub bolts areto rqued each 25 hrs. I have done the hub bolts many times and never hadbroken the torque. I spoke to the mechanic who did my annual and he saidthat the mounting bolts did have to be tightened but nothing out of theordinary. Iv an ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@yahoo groups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:25 AM Subject: RE: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Ivan, An Arion Li ghtining and a Sensinich ground adjustable. _____ From: jabiruengines@ya hoogroups.com[mailto:jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:00 PM To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub On what kind of airplane was the installation and what kind ofprop? Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Preliminary info is that 4of the bolts were sheared and two wer e pulled out of thecrankshaft. I understand that Jabiru engineers are look ing at it tomorrow.Lots of speculation including proper Loc-tite (blue?) a nd proper torque. Might check yours. [Non-text portions of this message ha ve been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [N on-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to gr oup |Re ply via web post Messages in this topic (36) 2.6. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Ivan" im ap8ntr@cox.net iva nbrauer Wed Jun 4, 2008 11:15 am ( PDT) Tom Is you Arion Lightining an S-LSA or E-LSA. If it is an S-LSA Iam curious to see what kind of input Arion at Shelbyville has to add. Ivan - ---- Original Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@yahoogroup s.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2 008 10:25 AM Subject: RE: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Ivan, An Arion Lightin ing and a Sensinich ground adjustable. _____ From: jabiruengines@yahoogr oups.com[mailto:jabiruengines@yahoo groups.com ] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent : Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:00 PM To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub On what kind of airplane was the installation and what kind ofprop? Ivan --- -- Original Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Preliminary info is that 4of the bolts were sheared and two were pul led out of thecrankshaft. I understand that Jabiru engineers are looking a t it tomorrow.Lots of speculation including proper Loc-tite (blue?) and pr oper torque. Might check yours. [Non-text portions of this message have be en removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-te xt portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to send er | Reply to group |Reply v ia web post Messages in this topic (36) 2.7. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "palmettoe@aol .com" palmettoe@aol.com palmettoe Wed Jun 4, 2008 11 :17 am (PDT) In a message dated 6/4/2008 2:14:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, imap8ntr@cox.net writes: 180-200 ft-lb s ? Wow! That's a lot! **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers . Watch"Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/ty ler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group |Reply via web post Messages in this topic (36) 2.8. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Ivan" imap8ntr@cox.net ivanbrauer Wed Jun 4, 2008 11:27 am (PDT) Sorry, in-l bs. Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: palmettoe@aol.com To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [ jabiruengines] Prop Hub In a message dated 6/4/2008 2:14:41 P.M. Eastern D aylight Time, imap8ntr@cox.net writes: 180-2 00 ft-lbs ? Wow! That's a lot! **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch"Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.ao l.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) [Non-text por tions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this messag e have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group |Reply via web post Messages in this topic (36) 2.9. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Gerald Boughner" silverflier2000@yahoo. comsilverfl ier2000 Wed Jun 4, 2008 11:2 9 am (PDT) According to Jabiru's instructions on installing the propflang e: the 6 -3/8" UNF bolts should be torqued to 30 ft/lbs or 40 Nm ina criss cross pattern. Ivan > wrote: Ihave a Sensinich prop ground adjustable on my J-250 which is a S-LSAbuilt by USA Jabiru. The Sensinich manual says to torque the mountingbolts to 18 0-200 ft-lbs only annually. The hub bolts are torqued each 25hrs. I have do ne the hub bolts many times and never had broken thetorque. I spoke to the mechanic who did my annual and he said that themounting bolts did have to b e tightened but nothing out of the ordinary. Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:25 AM Subject: RE: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Ivan, An Arion Lightining and a Sensinich gr ound adjustable. _____ From: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com[mailto:jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 20 08 9:00 PM To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub On what kind of airplane was the installation and what kind ofprop? Ivan ----- Original Message -- --- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: [jabi ruengines] Prop Hub We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Preliminary info is that 4of the bolts were sheared and two were pulled out of thecranksha ft. I understand that Jabiru engineers are looking at it tomorrow.Lots of speculation including proper Loc-tite (blue?) and proper torque. Might che ck yours. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this me ssage have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been remo ved] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply togroup | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (36) 2.10. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Tom Covell" tomcovell@theriver.comdesertfloats Wed Jun 4, 2008 11:47 am (PDT) Ivan, I d on't know if it was an E or S. I also have the 3300 andSensinich ground adj ustable. I guess I didn't realize the prop hub bolts had tobe torqued every 25 hours--thanks for the info. Tom _____ From: jabiruengines@yahoogro ups.com[mailto:jabiruengines@yahoog roups.com ] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:15 AM To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub T om Is you Arion Lightining an S-LSA or E-LSA. If it is an S-LSA Iam curious to see what kind of input Arion at Shelbyville has to add. Ivan ----- Ori ginal Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:2 5 AM Subject: RE: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Ivan, An Arion Lightining and a Sensinich ground adjustable. _____ From: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Tu esday, June 03, 2008 9:00 PM To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub On what kind of airplane was the installation and what kind ofprop? Ivan ----- O riginal Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub We had a prop hub come off of a 3300 . Preliminary info is that 4of the bolts were sheared and two were pulled out of thecrankshaft. I understand that Jabiru engineers are looking at it tomorrow.Lots of speculation including proper Loc-tite (blue?) and proper torque. Might check yours. [Non-text portions of this message have been r emoved] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text p ortions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this mess age have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply togroup | Reply via web post M essages in this topic (36) 2.11. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Ivan" imap8ntr@cox.net ivanbrauer Wed Jun 4, 2008 11:56 am (PDT) Gerald, Maybe w e are talking about two different things. The Sensinichmanual says that the bolts mounting the propeller hub to the enginemounting flange should be to rqued to 180-200 in lbs. I see in the JabiruEngine manual that it says to t orque the flang bolts to 30 ft-lbs. Maybethe mounting bolts that Sensinich is talking about attatched the hub tothe flange and the Jabiru 30 ft-lb tor qued bolts are those attatchingthe flange to the engine shaft and not the p rob hub? Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerald Boughner To: ja biruengines@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub A ccording to Jabiru's instructions on installing the propflange: the 6 -3/8" UNF bolts should be torqued to 30 ft/lbs or 40 Nm ina criss cross pattern. Ivan > wrote: Ihave a Sensi nich prop ground adjustable on my J-250 which is a S-LSAbuilt by USA Jabiru . The Sensinich manual says to torque the mountingbolts to 180-200 ft-lbs o nly annually. The hub bolts are torqued each 25hrs. I have done the hub bol ts many times and never had broken thetorque. I spoke to the mechanic who d id my annual and he said that themounting bolts did have to be tightened bu t nothing out of the ordinary. Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: T om Covell To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:25 AM Subject: RE: [jabirueng ines] Prop Hub Ivan, An Arion Lightining and a Sensinich ground adjustabl e. _____ From: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com[mailto:jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:00 PM To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Sub ject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub On what kind of airplane was the instal lation and what kind ofprop? Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogr oups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: [jabiruengines] Pro p Hub We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Preliminary info is that 4of the bolts were sheared and two were pulled out of thecrankshaft. I underst and that Jabiru engineers are looking at it tomorrow.Lots of speculation i ncluding proper Loc-tite (blue?) and proper torque. Might check yours. [No n-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of t his message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have bee n removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-tex t portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sende r | Reply to group |Reply vi a web post Messages in this topic (36) 2.12. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Ivan" imap8nt r@cox.net ivanbrau er Wed Jun 4, 2008 11:58 am (PDT) Tom Here is the literature I got with the Sensinich groundadjustable comp osite prop: see attatched. Make sure it is the right oneapplying to your pr op. Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengine s@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday , June 04, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: RE: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Ivan, I do n't know if it was an E or S. I also have the 3300 andSensinich ground adju stable. I guess I didn't realize the prop hub bolts had tobe torqued every 25 hours--thanks for the info. Tom _____ From: jabiruengines@yahoogrou ps.com[mailto:jabiruengines@yahoogr oups.com ] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:15 AM To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub To m Is you Arion Lightining an S-LSA or E-LSA. If it is an S-LSA Iam curious to see what kind of input Arion at Shelbyville has to add. Ivan ----- Orig inal Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:25 AM Subject: RE: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Ivan, An Arion Lightining and a Sensinich ground adjustable. _____ From: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Tue sday, June 03, 2008 9:00 PM To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub On what kind of airplane was the installation and what kind ofprop? Ivan ----- Or iginal Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Preliminary info is that 4of the bolts were sheared and two were pulled o ut of thecrankshaft. I understand that Jabiru engineers are looking at it tomorrow.Lots of speculation including proper Loc-tite (blue?) and proper torque. Might check yours. [Non-text portions of this message have been re moved] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text po rtions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this messa ge have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed ] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group |Reply via web post Messages in this topic (36) 2.13. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Pete" pete@flylightning.net usjabiru Wed Jun 4, 2008 4:49 pm (PDT) Attention all Jabiru Engine list me mbers, By Thursday morning I will have the correct procedure forinstalling prop hub extensions on Jabiru engines posted on www.usjabiru.com > in theengine manuals section on the support & service page. That procedure is currently posted atwww.jab iru.net.au > underth e manuals section in the Airframe Construction Manuals Update table. If yo u have not installed your prop hub extension using thetorque values and sea lants specified in the procedure (or in section 12 of theengine manual) you might consider doing it over exactly by theprocedure. At this time we hav e no information as to the cause of the hubleaving the aircraft in Arizona but will be visiting with the NTSBinvestigator tomorrow. We will pass on an y information that the NTSB willauthorize. In the mean time, review the p rocedure from Jabiru and take theaction you deem appropriate -- especially if you have not installed theextension with the sealant and torque values s pecified in the procedureand Section 12 of the engine manual.. Pete Krotje Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC _____ From: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.c om[mailto:jabiruengines@yahoogroups .com ] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Wedn esday, June 04, 2008 1:56 PM To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Gerald, Maybe we are talking about two different things. The Sensinichmanual says that the bolts mounting the propeller hub to the engine mountingflange shou ld be torqued to 180-200 in lbs. I see in the Jabiru Enginemanual that it s ays to torque the flang bolts to 30 ft-lbs. Maybe themounting bolts that Se nsinich is talking about attatched the hub to the flangeand the Jabiru 30 f t-lb torqued bolts are those attatching the flange tothe engine shaft and n ot the prob hub? Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerald Boughner To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.co m Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Pro p Hub According to Jabiru's instructions on installing the propflange: the 6 -3/8" UNF bolts should be torqued to 30 ft/lbs or 40 Nm in acriss cross pattern. Ivan net> wrote: Ihave a Sensinich prop ground adjustable on my J-250 which is a S-LSAbuilt by US A Jabiru. The Sensinich manual says to torque the mounting boltsto 180-200 ft-lbs only annually. The hub bolts are torqued each 25 hrs. Ihave done the hub bolts many times and never had broken the torque. I spoke tothe mechan ic who did my annual and he said that the mounting boltsdid have to be tigh tened but nothing out of the ordinary. Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:25 AM Subject: RE: [j abiruengines] Prop Hub Ivan, An Arion Lightining and a Sensinich ground a djustable. _____ From: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:00 PM To: jabiruengines@ yahoogr oups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub On what kind of airplane wa s the installation and what kind ofprop? Ivan ----- Original Message ---- - From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: [jabiru engines] Prop Hub We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Preliminary info i s that 4of the bolts were sheared and two were pulled out of thecrankshaft . I understand that Jabiru engineers are looking at it tomorrow.Lots of s peculation including proper Loc-tite (blue?) and proper torque. Might check yours. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text p ortions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this mess age have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been remove d] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portio ns of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply togroup | Reply via w eb post Messages in this topic (36) 2.14. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Richard Williams " rkwill@lewiscounty.comrkwill98356 Wed Jun 4, 2008 5:20 pm (PDT) Palm, others, I suspect the actual value is more li ke 180-200 INCH poundsrather than foot pounds 180 foot pounds is 2160 inch pounds! I think that NOTHING on the jab should be that tight (2160 inchpo unds), including the prop. R. Williams ---------- Original Message ------ ----- From: palmettoe@aol.com To: jabiruengin es@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 4 Ju n 2008 14:17:15 EDT Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub > In a message d ated 6/4/2008 2:14:41 P.M. Eastern DaylightTime, > imap8ntr@cox.net writes: > > 180-200 ft-lbs ? Wow! That's a lot! > > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch"Cooking with > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. >(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video =4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------- End of Original Message ------- Back to top Reply to sender rop%20Hub>| Reply via web post Messages in this topic (36) 2.15. Re: Prop Hub Poste d by: "Ivan" imap8ntr@cox.net ivanbrauer Wed Jun 4, 2008 6:50 pm (PDT) Tom, If your plane was built by Arion then it is an S- LSA. If it wasbuilt by you then it is probably an E-LSA. Ivan ----- Origin al Message ----- From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:44 A M Subject: RE: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Ivan, I don't know if it was an E or S. I also have the 3300 andSensinich ground adjustable. I guess I didn' t realize the prop hub bolts had tobe torqued every 25 hours--thanks for th e info. Tom _____ From: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com[mailto:jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 200 8 11:15 AM To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub Tom Is you Arion Lightini ng an S-LSA or E-LSA. If it is an S-LSA Iam curious to see what kind of inp ut Arion at Shelbyville has to add. Ivan ----- Original Message ----- Fro m: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ y ahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:25 AM Subject: RE: [jabir uengines] Prop Hub Ivan, An Arion Lightining and a Sensinich ground adjus table. _____ From: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ivan Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:0 0 PM To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups .com Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub On what kind of airplane was th e installation and what kind ofprop? Ivan ----- Original Message ----- F rom: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@ yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: [jabiruengi nes] Prop Hub We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Preliminary info is th at 4of the bolts were sheared and two were pulled out of thecrankshaft. I understand that Jabiru engineers are looking at it tomorrow.Lots of specu lation including proper Loc-tite (blue?) and proper torque. Might check you rs. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text porti ons of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (36) 2.16. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "palme ttoe@aol.com" palmettoe@aol.com palmettoe Thu Jun 5, 2008 2:22 am (PDT) I felt such was the case, just wanted to make everyon e aware,thanks John Matthews www.usxair.com In a message dated 6/4/2008 8:21:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rkwill@lewiscounty.com writes: Palm, others, I suspect the actual value is mo re like 180-200 INCH poundsrather than foot pounds 180 foot pounds is 216 0 inch pounds! I think that NOTHING on the jab should be that tight (2160 inchpounds), including the prop. R. Williams ---------- Original Message ----------- From: _palmettoe@aol.pal _(mailt o:palmettoe@aol.com ) To: _jabiruengines@jabi ruenginejab_(mailto:jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com ) Sent: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:17:15 EDT Subject: Re: [jabiruen gines] Prop Hub > In a message dated 6/4/2008 2:14:41 P.M. Eastern Dayligh tTime, > _imap8ntr@cox.ima _(mailto:imap8ntr@ cox.net ) writes: > > 180-200 ft-lbs ? Wow! Th at's a lot! > > ************ **************Get trade secrets for amaz ingburgers. Wa > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. > (_http://food.http://food. NCID=aolfodNCID_ (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCI D=aolfod00030000000002) ) > > [Non-text portions of this message have be en removed] ------- End of Original Message ------- **************Get trad e secrets for amazing burgers. Watch"Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL F ood. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod000300000 00002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group |Reply via web post Messages in this topic (36) 3. Prop bol ts sheared. Po sted by: "Bill Evans" wwevans@enter-net.combil438 Wed Jun 4, 2008 6:54 am (PDT) The only 6 bolt installation I ca n think of at the front of theengine would be the Prop bolts. As I see it the possibilities/contributing factors are: 1. Bogus bolts and or Bogus nu ts. (I found one at Sun & Fun) 2. Bolt shanks nicked or damaged in service. 2. Improper torque/ Torque not checked (every 25 hours on woodenprops.) I found one bolt at 5 ft lbs last time. 3. No Safety devices, ie no lockwire . 4. Prop bushings "climbed" into the wooden prop. 5 Steel bushings incorre ctly installed. 6. Nuts bottomed on bolt shanks inducing failure. I found 2 prop bolts with circumferential score marks after Ibacked them out with a ratchet. These marks would be eliminated if thebolts were driven straigh t in and straight out. Also the nuts shouldbe torqued while the bolts held still. However the 4 sheared bolts suggest that factors 1 and 6 aremore l ikely causes. One precaution is to determine the exact length needed and buyyour bolts from the propeller maker. Bill Evans Back to top Reply to sender |Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 4. Re: Where are comments from Jabiru USA? Posted by: "Ivan" imap8ntr@cox.net ivanbrauer Wed Jun 4, 2008 10:09 am (PDT) Anyone know where Pete from Jabiru USA is? Havent hea rd anycomments from him in a while. Some concerns of mine were also emailed toJabiru USA and have not gotten an answer. I wonder if he monitors thejab iruengines group anymore? Ivan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to gro up | Reply via webpost Messages in this t opic (1) 5. when? who? rebuilding the jab 2200 carburator?? Posted by: "bill shamblin" bshamblin2002@yahoo.com bshamblin 2002 Wed Jun 4, 2008 3:14 pm ( PDT) flyers, ive started studying my jabiru/bing setup and wonder if thec arburator should come off and be rebuilt at some point even if there areno problems?? ( i only have 45 hrs now. ) is this in the literature somewhere? what should be the timing of having the carb rebuilt?? months?flight hour s? wait for trouble? who might be specialized in doing a good job with th is?? thanks, bill s. in nc Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 6. Fw: ivan-POH weight / balance / IDE4/ ASI Posted by: "Ivan" imap8ntr@cox.net ivanbrauer Wed Jun 4, 2008 6:38 pm (PDT) Hi Pete, J-250 owners I have three ques tions so I am combining them in this email: 1. I noticed that the note tha t you sent with the new POH and alsotable 4-3 states to use the appropriate values from the W/B record. Inoticed that many of the arms in the POH are also different. I amassuming to always use the ARMS too that came with my a ctual W/B recordfor my actual serial number airplane? 2. I was changing t he voltage alarm setting on the Grand Rapids EISand somehow goofed on somet hing. I must have pressed some wrong buttonafter inputting my min volt of 1 2.4 in the Display 1 bank. I came to a screen that went through Display on the right andgoing from #1 to 11 on the left. I figured that I would just scrollthrough and not change anything hoping to return to my default start uppage. Instead it kept on scrolling through settings ie: fuel flow, tach,a ux1........6, and IDE1, IDE2, IDE3, IDE4, etc. I mistakingly changedthe set ting on the IDE4 I think one lower. I did not know for sure whatIDE4 was se t at or what it was so I did not fool with it until I foundout. Do you kno w what IDE4 should be set at and what it is?. It canbe found in the Display bank #2. Display #1 looks like it is the normalsettings which are shown on the efis in case of an alarm, ie voltagemin/max, CHT's, EGT's, Display #2 looked all Greek to me. If there is noIDE4 maybe it is 1D4? 3. Ever since I got my airplane I have had a difference in theindicated airspeed reading s of the UMA guage and the EFIS. It took me awhile to learn how the EFIS wo rks so I did not make any ealier comments.My steam guage reads consistently 4-6 KIAS less than the EFIS indicatedairspeed. I have been flying by the E FIS readings since the plane flieswell at that speed and I did not want to error by following the steamguage and flying slow on final approach. It see ms like when I am doingslow flight the stall horn sounds about right @6 kts above stall speedand I am not stalled. The steam guage indicates that I am about to stall(the best I can tell.) Because of this I am assuming that th e EFIS isaccurate and that the steam guage is off. Does this assumption so und right to you? Any other ideas wouldbe welcome. I have learned to trust my EFIS because it is such a greatunit so I think the EFIS is probably righ t. Also I am going to try flying upwind and down wind, adding theindicated airspeeds, divide by 2 and see if this figure matches the GPSEFIS groundsp eed. I think this should tell which is accurate? Thanks Ivan Ivan [Non-t ext portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sen der | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this top ic (1) Recent Activity * 9 New Members * 2 New Photos Visit Your Group Y! Sports for TV Game Day Companion Live fantasy league & game stats on TV. Yahoo! News Fashion News What's the word on fashion and style? Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Need to R eply? Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in th eDaily Digest. Create New Topic | Visit You r Group on the Web Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Databa se | Polls | Members | Calendar MARKETPLACEBlockbuster is giving away a free trial of Blo ckbuster Total Access tosmart movie lovers like you. Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings v ia email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch format to Trad itional Visit Your Group | Yaho o! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe --Doorgestuurd bericht in de bijlage--Subject: [jabiruengines] Digest Numbe r 3344Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:07:07 +0100From: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.c omTo: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.comjabiru engines M essages In This Digest (7 Messages) 1. 250 Free Books for Members From: karen.hall35 2a. Rocky Mountain Tandem Wing Fly-In, 6/6/2008, 9:00 am F rom:jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com 2b. Re: Rocky Mountain Tandem Wing Fly- In, 6/6/2008, 9:00 am From:n02ez 3. RPM From: Garth Knowles 4a. Prop Hub From: Tom Covell 4b. Re: Prop Hub From: Ivan 4c. Re: Prop Hub From: John Lamb View All Topics | Create NewTopic Messages 1. 250 Free Books for Members Posted by: "karen.hall35" karen.hall35@yahoo.com karen.hall35 Tue Jun 3, 2008 2: 53 am (PDT) Dear Members I was sent this fantastic 100% free link by a f riend, so Ithought I would share it with the group...enjoy! Collect over 2 50 free books by visiting the link below. They areall INSTANTLY downloadab le and there are No Catches! There are so many titles to choose from includ ing fiction,crafts, health & fitness, business and so many more! http://m oourl.com/250freebooks When you have had your freebies, be nice to your family andfriends and pass it forward, lik e I did! Take care and have a great week Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in th is topic (1) 2a. Rocky Mountain Tandem Wing Fly-In, 6/6/2008, 9:00 am Posted by: "jabir uengines@yahoogroups.com"jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Tue Jun 3, 2008 5:56 am (PDT) Re minder from: jabiruengines Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabir uengines/cal Rocky Mount ain Tandem Wing Fly-In Friday June 6, 2008 9:00 am - 10:00 am Location: KCP R Casper, Wy Notes: Friday, Saturday, and Sunday All Rights Reserved Copy right =A9 2008 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com P rivacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Back to top Reply to sender | Reply togroup | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) 2b. Re: Rocky Mountain Tandem Wing Fly-In, 6/6/2008, 9 :00 am Posted b y: "n02ez" Reggie@hdwireless.net n02ez Tue Jun 3, 2008 1:31 p m (PDT) > > Reminder from: jabiruengines Yahoo! Group > http://groups.ya hoo.com/group/jabiruengines/cal > > Rocky Mountain Tandem Wing Fly-In > Friday June 6, 2008 > 9:00 am - 10:00 am > Location: KCPR Casper, Wy >******************************** *********** Re: Rocky Mountain Tandem Wing Fly-in (http://groups.yahoo.com /group/Dragonflylist/message/19724 ) Well, it is moot now but the fly-in was planned for n ext weekendhere in Casper, WY. The next fly-in planned as far as I know for the Dragonflies and Quickie's will be in KS it is the main event forthese airplanes. Check out last years website at http://www.tandemwing.com/fodfly -in.htm I am not sure that Spud has finalised the dates for this year.Spud, if you are on the list how abou t an update? Paul Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) 3. RPM Po sted by: "Garth Knowles" garthknowles@yahoo.com garthknowles Tue Jun 3, 2008 8:01 am (PDT) In my 3300 installation manual (hydr aulic lifter model), inSection 15 Propeller Selection, it says "do not cru ise or climb in therange of 2100 - 2400 rpm". I can see that climb should be at or close tofull power, but what is the issue with cruise at this pow er setting?Is this common for any engine or unique to the Jab? Thx Garth Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 4a. Prop Hub Posted by: "Tom Covell" tomcovell@theriver.com desertfloats Tue Jun 3, 2008 7:01 pm (PDT) We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Prelimin ary info is that 4of the bolts were sheared and two were pulled out of the crankshaft. I understand that Jabiru engineers are looking at it tomorrow. Lots of speculation including proper Loc-tite (blue?) and proper torque. M ight check yours. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Replyvia web post Messages in this topic (20) 4b. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "Ivan" imap8ntr@cox.net ivanbrauer Tue Jun 3, 2008 9:00 pm (PDT) On what kind of airplane wa s the installation and what kind ofprop? Ivan ----- Original Message ---- - From: Tom Covell To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: [jabiru engines] Prop Hub We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Preliminary info i s that 4of the bolts were sheared and two were pulled out of thecrankshaft . I understand that Jabiru engineers are looking at it tomorrow.Lots of s peculation including proper Loc-tite (blue?) and proper torque. Might check yours. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to to p Reply to sender | Reply to group |Reply via web post Messages in this topic (20) 4c. Re: Prop Hub Posted by: "John Lamb" jlamb@tpg.com.au zzjlamb Wed Jun 4, 2008 1 2:56 am (PDT) And was it the hub of the prop coming off the flange, or th eflange coming off the crankshaft? I assume from the reference to Loctite that it was the latter.Were the nuts lock wired? John Lamb On 04/06/200 8, at 2:00 PM, Ivan wrote: > On what kind of airplane was the installation and what kind ofprop? > Ivan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tom Covell > To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:01 PM > Subject: [jabiruengines] Prop Hub > > We had a prop hub come off of a 3300. Preliminary info is that 4 of > the bolts were sheared and two were pulled out of thecrankshaft. I > understand that Jabiru engineers are looking at it tomorrow.Lots of > spec ulation including proper Loc-tite (blue?) and propertorque. > Might check y ours. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [No n-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to gro up |Rep ly via web post Messages in this topic (20) Recent Activity * 9 New Members * 2 New Photos Visit Your Group Y! Sports f or TV Access it for free Get Fantasy Sports stats on your TV. Yahoo! News Odd News You won't believe it, but it's true Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal< http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o0tg0pl/M=493064.12016257.12445664.867457 8/D=groups/S=1705786083:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1212581228/L=/B=AQVvAELa X.4-/J=12evt=50284/*http://finance.yahoo.com/personal-finance> Guides, news, advice & more. Need to Reply? Click one of the "Reply" links to resp ond to a specific message in theDaily Digest. Create New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web M essages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZWpjM2t2BF 9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI3NzI3ODIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg2MDgzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA 3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzEyMTI1NzQwMjc-> | Members | Calendar MARKETPLACEBlockbuster i s giving away a free trial of Blockbuster Total Access tosmart movie lovers like you. Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe 
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