Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:18 AM - Re: ATT. NICK (Mark Stauffer)
2. 06:44 AM - Re: Constant speed prop (Phil McCandless)
3. 06:44 AM - Re: Constant speed prop (Phil McCandless)
4. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: Constant speed prop (Pete)
5. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Constant speed prop (Kayberg@aol.com)
6. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: Constant speed prop (James, Clive R)
7. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: Constant speed prop (Kayberg@aol.com)
8. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: Constant speed prop (Jim Langley)
9. 06:20 PM - Re: Re: Constant speed prop (Brian Whittingham)
Message 1
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Tex,
In the shop we use the "handy jack" that can be found here:
http://aviationtechproducts.com/html/products_pics.html#RVJACK. It uses a
cable that wraps around the axel on the inboard side of the wheel. This
device along with a floor jack works very well for us.
If we've needed to service the gear leg or axel then we've used Buz's
method.
Hope this helps.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tex Mantell
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 1:43 PM
To: lightning List
Subject: Lightning-List: ATT. NICK
Nick, I am trying to come up with a combination tie down point / jack
pad. The access to the wing is thru the bell crank hole which is 98" from
the fuse. I would expect to have 400 lbs. on the jack pad and was wondering
if the spar would support that weight in that area. How do you now support
the plane for service of a tire or gear ? Your input would be greatly
appreciated. Tex
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Constant speed prop |
Pete,
I am talking specifically about the Airmaster constant speed (variable pitc
h) prop. Find it at http://www.propellor.com/
I find it interesting that when one brand of adjustable prop was tried on t
he Esqual there was a 12 mph LOSS in speed as compared to the woodie prop.
- That only means one thing... that the maximum pitch on the prop used is
less than the fixed pitch of the wooded one.- I bet that if apples were
compared to apples (inches to inches), we might get at least the same perfo
rmance at cruise and perhaps better if the pitch was increased over the fix
ed version.
On the Airmaster website, there are specifications for a Jabiru 3300 on an
esqual.- Performance reports for the esqual are only for the Rotax 912S e
ngine, but Bert Flood in Australia used an Airmaster AP332 on his plane and
reported:
-
"I am really pleased with the Airmaster propeller, it performs really well.
-
Cruise at 75% power is 130kts with a climb of 1200ft/m. -Top speed is now
148kts.- It=A2s really great to fly."
Airmaster has a lot of application specs for aircraft using the Jabiru 3300
engine including the Storm, Esqual, Jabiru, and 20+ installations.- That
's why I am asking...Just haven't head of anyone trying this on the Lightni
ng.
Phil Mc C a n d l e ss
What type of constant speed prop set up are you talking about? Who is the
manufacturer?
=0A=0A=0A
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Constant speed prop |
Pete,
I am talking specifically about the Airmaster constant speed (variable pitc
h) prop. Find it at http://www.propellor.com/
I find it interesting that when one brand of adjustable prop was tried on t
he Esqual there was a 12 mph LOSS in speed as compared to the woodie prop.
- That only means one thing... that the maximum pitch on the prop used is
less than the fixed pitch of the wooded one.- I bet that if apples were
compared to apples (inches to inches), we might get at least the same perfo
rmance at cruise and perhaps better if the pitch was increased over the fix
ed version.
On the Airmaster website, there are specifications for a Jabiru 3300 on an
esqual.- Performance reports for the esqual are only for the Rotax 912S e
ngine, but Bert Flood in Australia used an Airmaster AP332 on his plane and
reported:
-
"I am really pleased with the Airmaster propeller, it performs really well.
-
Cruise at 75% power is 130kts with a climb of 1200ft/m. -Top speed is now
148kts.- It=A2s really great to fly."
Airmaster has a lot of application specs for aircraft using the Jabiru 3300
engine including the Storm, Esqual, Jabiru, and 20+ installations.- That
's why I am asking...Just haven't head of anyone trying this on the Lightni
ng.
Phil Mc C a n d l e ss
What type of constant speed prop set up are you talking about? Who is the
manufacturer?
=0A=0A=0A
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Constant speed prop |
It was possible to put much more pitch into the airmaster than the wood
prop. The problem lies with the Warp Drive blades and their airfoil
profile. Turning them at 2000 to 2300 as would happen on a Rotax seems to
work well on an Esqual although we could duplicate Bert Flood's speed
numbers on our Esqual with the 80 hp Jabiru and wood prop.
When you try to turn the Warp blades at 2850 to 3000 rpm as you would on a
Jabiru they lose so much efficiency that the induced drag of the blades eat
up the hp that would otherwise be converted to speed. We've seen the same
thing with Jabiru Aircraft. Andy Silvester had an Airmaster on the J400
while we had a Sensenich Wood on our J200. Andy had a small advantage in
climb but no advantage in speed or fuel economy.
Several have tried airmaster or MT in flight adjustables on Europa's with no
speed advantage over a good wood prop. In fact there are Jabiru powered
Europa's with wood props that are significantly faster than the variable
prop versions.
Based on our experience an airmaster is unproductive extra expense.
Pete
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil
McCandless
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:42 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Constant speed prop
Pete,
I am talking specifically about the Airmaster constant speed (variable
pitch) prop. Find it at http://www.propellor.com/
I find it interesting that when one brand of adjustable prop was tried on
the Esqual there was a 12 mph LOSS in speed as compared to the woodie prop.
That only means one thing... that the maximum pitch on the prop used is less
than the fixed pitch of the wooded one. I bet that if apples were compared
to apples (inches to inches), we might get at least the same performance at
cruise and perhaps better if the pitch was increased over the fixed version.
On the Airmaster website, there are specifications for a Jabiru 3300 on an
esqual. Performance reports for the esqual are only for the Rotax 912S
engine, but Bert Flood in Australia used an Airmaster AP332 on his plane and
reported:
"I am really pleased with the Airmaster propeller, it performs really well.
Cruise at 75% power is 130kts with a climb of 1200ft/m. Top speed is now
148kts. It?s really great to fly."
Airmaster has a lot of application specs for aircraft using the Jabiru 3300
engine including the Storm, Esqual, Jabiru, and 20+ installations. That's
why I am asking...Just haven't head of anyone trying this on the Lightning.
Phil Mc C a n d l e ss
What type of constant speed prop set up are you talking about? Who is the
manufacturer?
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Constant speed prop |
In a message dated 7/10/2008 10:41:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pete@flylightning.net writes:
It was possible to put much more pitch into the airmaster than the wood
prop. The problem lies with the Warp Drive blades and their airfoil profi
le.
Turning them at 2000 to 2300 as would happen on a Rotax seems to work well o
n
an Esqual although we could duplicate Bert Flood=99s speed numbers on
our
Esqual with the 80 hp Jabiru and wood prop.
Our experience with Warp Drive was similar on other aircraft. The great
virtue for Warp Drive is in water environments, not for top speed. Even wi
th
Rotax 912 series the top end suffered. A three blade IVO delivered the be
st
thrust at low speed and best (with inflight adjust) top speed.
but I would not put an IVO on a Jabiru engine for all the tea in China.
A recent experience at Green Landings showed the latest design Sensnich woo
d
prop on a Lightning added 10 mph or more along with better climb (slightly
longer takeoff) over the ground adjust composite Sensnich.
It's an easy decision.
Doug Koenigsberg
**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music
scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Constant speed prop |
Doug, what is the 'latest design' Sensenich? A new profile? How new?
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Kayberg@aol.com
Sent: 10 July 2008 16:34
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Constant speed prop
In a message dated 7/10/2008 10:41:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pete@flylightning.net writes:
It was possible to put much more pitch into the airmaster than
the wood prop. The problem lies with the Warp Drive blades and their
airfoil profile. Turning them at 2000 to 2300 as would happen on a
Rotax seems to work well on an Esqual although we could duplicate Bert
Flood's speed numbers on our Esqual with the 80 hp Jabiru and wood prop.
Our experience with Warp Drive was similar on other aircraft. The great
virtue for Warp Drive is in water environments, not for top speed. Even
with Rotax 912 series the top end suffered. A three blade IVO
delivered the best thrust at low speed and best (with inflight adjust)
top speed.
but I would not put an IVO on a Jabiru engine for all the tea in China.
A recent experience at Green Landings showed the latest design Sensnich
wood prop on a Lightning added 10 mph or more along with better climb
(slightly longer takeoff) over the ground adjust composite Sensnich.
It's an easy decision.
Doug Koenigsberg
________________________________
Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in
your area - Check out TourTracker.com
<http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112> !
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Constant speed prop |
In a message dated 7/10/2008 1:24:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
clive.james@uk.bp.com writes:
--> Lightning-List message posted by: "James, Clive R"
<clive.james@uk.bp.com>
Doug, what is the 'latest design' Sensenich? A new profile? How new?
Regards, Clive
It is the "FZ" if memory serves. It is the prop Buz and Nick have been
testing on the prototype and the demonstrator.
It is new in the sense that it has been out for about 8 months. It is the
first time we have used one on a Green Landings build. Jim's Lightning will
have one also.... he should be approved for first flight after this weekend.
Doug
**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music
scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Constant speed prop |
CAN'T WAIT!!
On 7/10/08, Kayberg@aol.com <Kayberg@aol.com> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/10/2008 1:24:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> clive.james@uk.bp.com writes:
>
> clive.james@uk.bp.com>
>
> Doug, what is the 'latest design' Sensenich? A new profile? How new?
>
> Regards, Clive
>
>
> It is the "FZ" if memory serves. It is the prop Buz and Nick have been
> testing on the prototype and the demonstrator.
>
> It is new in the sense that it has been out for about 8 months. It is the
> first time we have used one on a Green Landings build. Jim's Lightning will
> have one also.... he should be approved for first flight after this weekend.
>
> Doug
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in
> your area - Check out TourTracker.com<http://www.tourtracker.com/?NCID=aolmus00050000000112>
> !
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Constant speed prop |
Phil,
None of these are new questions. Generally speaking I think that you're much
better off with less blades. That is unless you have enough power and need
more blades because a 2 blader would be too long. Don't underestimate the difference
in rotational mass either. Those wood props are something like 5 pounds
and I think the ground adjustable is like 25 pounds. I would also think that
changes in RPM would be easier on the internal stresses of the engine with
the wooden prop. A huge factor in my mind would be that the cost is very small
for a good wooden prop. The craftsmanship also appeals to me. Finally, you
are very likely that if you get a prop strike with a wooden prop that you won't
have to rebuild the engine. Just my .02
Brian W.
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