Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:32 AM - Pitch stability and trim (EAFerguson@AOL.COM)
2. 08:03 AM - Re: Pitch stability and trim (John Davis)
3. 03:20 PM - Re: kitplanes (Kayberg@AOL.COM)
4. 05:44 PM - Re: kitplanes (N1BZRich@aol.com)
5. 06:27 PM - August issue of the Lightning Newsletter (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
6. 08:36 PM - Re: kitplanes (James, Clive R)
7. 10:38 PM - Re: August issue of the Lightning Newsletter (Wayne Patterson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Pitch stability and trim |
Since this has become a hot topic, let me post my experience with the trim.
My Lightning is one of the first, third to fly after the first demo and
Gregg Hobbs's. I'm Serial #5. N17EF was originally equipped with the bungee trim
system, and I had over 200 hours when we installed the new servo trim tabs
last fall. The difference is significant. In my opinion, the new system makes
a
tremendous positive difference. Buz likes to fly his airplanes all the time,
but I like to fold charts and do a few other necessary chores occasionally.
No question in my mind which is better. I did find the stick feel to be a
little heavy with the new trim system, so I added a small bungee on the elevator
pushrod to balance the stick. Take-off and landing trim settings are now
slightly nose up, and stick force on the ground is very light. In flight at
cruise, trim is near neutral.
What more could you ask for?
And no question about any difference in early and later Lightnings. It
should make no difference.
Looking forward to the Fall Gathering in Shelbyville!
Earl Ferguson
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
Message 2
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| Subject: | Pitch stability and trim |
Earl:
My trim experience.
I installed the Strong Trim System in my lightning #14 It works about the
same as a bungee system but is a lot less bulky and does not wear out. I
found that the system works very well and has plenty of throw. The springs
in the Strong system take the pressures off the stick. I am selling my
lightning for health reasons but if I were keeping it I would be putting the
new trim system in right now.
John Davis
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
EAFerguson@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 7:29 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: Pitch stability and trim
Since this has become a hot topic, let me post my experience with the trim.
My Lightning is one of the first, third to fly after the first demo and
Gregg Hobbs's. I'm Serial #5. N17EF was originally equipped with the bungee
trim system, and I had over 200 hours when we installed the new servo trim
tabs last fall. The difference is significant. In my opinion, the new system
makes a tremendous positive difference. Buz likes to fly his airplanes all
the time, but I like to fold charts and do a few other necessary chores
occasionally. No question in my mind which is better. I did find the stick
feel to be a little heavy with the new trim system, so I added a small
bungee on the elevator pushrod to balance the stick. Take-off and landing
trim settings are now slightly nose up, and stick force on the ground is
very light. In flight at cruise, trim is near neutral.
What more could you ask for?
And no question about any difference in early and later Lightnings. It
should make no difference.
Looking forward to the Fall Gathering in Shelbyville!
Earl Ferguson
_____
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read
<http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000
017> reviews on AOL Autos.
Message 3
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In a message dated 8/5/2008 9:17:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wb2ssj@earthlink.net writes:
Just finished reading the Magazine with Nick sitting in the left seat by
himself, which was strange. The article left me puzzled and confused. I would
be interested in others comments about the content and overal l tone of the
review of the Lightning. Tex
Buz has offered his more detailed discussion of the content of the
Kitplanes article, I want to offer a couple other ones.
1) The editors comments and the article tried to complement Nick, et al, on
their willingness to make changes to the design-----without explaining that
the magazine was in effect holding a loaded gun to Nick's head. Had the
cooperation not been there the negative and error-filled story would likely have
run.. or no story at all. While it may not have bothered Nick that much, I
consider it a breach of journalism practice.
In my day, the Media was never the story, it was only to report it. And
most of all, the media should never CAUSE the story.
2) It would appear that the writer of the story was not really qualified to
write it. Oh, he holds degrees and has lots of experience as a Navy pilot,
etc. He just has very little experience with planes like the Lightning. I
have not flown for the Navy, the Army or even the Air Force. I only hold
Commercial, Instrument, Single and Multi tickets in some 30 or so birds over some
40 years. I do not consider myself a test pilot. But the Lightning Ryan
and I first built flew just fine. I agree there was some annoying features
to the trim system. But who the hell cares? It flys fast well, it lands
very slow, it climbs like a homesick angel, it is smooth and handles like an
imported sports car. That is the story, not some crap about the CG and the
trim system. In short, the writer missed the boat. By a lot. Did it
improve the Lightning by moving the CG forward a bit and having a trim tab like
other planes? Of course. But that should not have been the real focus.
3) What should scare the hell out of KitPlanes is the reaction of others
who would bring a new plane to market. About 3 years ago I worked with
Kitplanes to have the SkyRanger flown at Sun n Fun. That writer was a seasoned
professional and did a great job. He accurately picked out the good and not so
good features of a SkyRanger. I answered his questions and he was
reassuring. It was still nerve-wracking to deal with media, but I was pleased
with
the outcome. He wrote a good, honest report. At the time we were advertising
significantly in the magazine.
But NOW if I were a manufacturer I would not be very excited to hear
Kitplanes wanted to do a story about my new bird. This guy and the editor missed
the news point of the Lightning. What if they cant understand the real
features of my new design? Why would I want to advertise with them? Am I
to
be the next designer to be badgered by them?
I want to reread the article and plan to write a letter to the editor that
will better make the above points.
Tex, I think your being puzzled and confused is a reasonable response.
Doug Koenigsberg
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
Message 4
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Excellent words, Doug, some points I had not even considered. Well thought
out and succinctly put, as always.
Blue skies,
Buz
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
Message 5
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| Subject: | August issue of the Lightning Newsletter |
All,
Earlier this evening I forwarded the latest newsletter to Pete at Lightning
and to Jim Langley for them to post of their respective web sites. The
addresses for the respective sites are:
_http://www.flylightning.net/_ (http://www.flylightning.net/)
_http://www.jimslightning.com/html/home.html_
(http://www.jimslightning.com/html/home.html)
As always, I would really like to receive some specific feedback on the
newsletter. What things do you like or dislike? What can we co better? What
would you like to see in future issues? What kind of info do you want from
SYI? What would be helpful from the individual dealers? What can you as a
builder, flyer, or just a Lightning enthusiast send in to be published in a
future issue? Can you tell I am a little frustrated and looking for some
"vectors" on how this thing should be "flying"? Heck, I need some velocity as
well
as vectors, or otherwise I will soon burn out. "Push it up, lead, you are
falling behind." As I said, any and all feedback will be helpful.
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
Message 6
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I'm also with Doug RE the article, I managed to get a copy of the
article (thanks again) and was surprised at the fixation, the ramblings
of the content. As Doug says something like this can kill an aircraft's
reputation with a periodical like kit planes and its circulation. The
instability was undoubtedly caused by the bungee system which was
quickly pointed out to me (thanks again) and without bungee up trim
she's stable. With the new trim sorted. Doesn't take much to say that
but the guy has managed to run on about it for some 10 pages and flavour
what could have been a great article.
One question, was Nick and everyone at Arion aware of the trim bungees
effect on the stability at the first flight test?
Before the reunion 'of sorts'.
With my communication with the LAA's engineer explaining the delay in my
taking the Esqual to him he confirmed bungee up trim has been the cause
of stability issues in a number of types. The latest, the TL Sting,
which you might have seen in the LS category.
The guy who flew my Esqual for it's initial flights gets kitplanes and
understands more about planes and controls than I'll ever know. He
writes tests for a number of periodicals in the UK. I'll ask him for an
opinion about the article.
One thing, it was nice to see the Lightning's heritage recognised with
the Esqual comment.
The rest of the comments seem good if a little opinionated (but that
what we want isn't it?, the magazines opinion) and the self deprecating
style has a certain charm.
Regards, Clive
UK Esqual
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Kayberg@aol.com
Sent: 07 August 2008 23:21
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: kitplanes
In a message dated 8/5/2008 9:17:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wb2ssj@earthlink.net writes:
Just finished reading the Magazine with Nick sitting in the left
seat by himself, which was strange. The article left me puzzled and
confused. I would be interested in others comments about the content and
overal l tone of the review of the Lightning. Tex
Buz has offered his more detailed discussion of the content of the
Kitplanes article, I want to offer a couple other ones.
1) The editors comments and the article tried to complement Nick, et al,
on their willingness to make changes to the design-----without
explaining that the magazine was in effect holding a loaded gun to
Nick's head. Had the cooperation not been there the negative and
error-filled story would likely have run.. or no story at all. While it
may not have bothered Nick that much, I consider it a breach of
journalism practice.
In my day, the Media was never the story, it was only to report it.
And most of all, the media should never CAUSE the story.
2) It would appear that the writer of the story was not really qualified
to write it. Oh, he holds degrees and has lots of experience as a Navy
pilot, etc. He just has very little experience with planes like the
Lightning. I have not flown for the Navy, the Army or even the Air
Force. I only hold Commercial, Instrument, Single and Multi tickets in
some 30 or so birds over some 40 years. I do not consider myself a
test pilot. But the Lightning Ryan and I first built flew just fine.
I agree there was some annoying features to the trim system. But who
the hell cares? It flys fast well, it lands very slow, it climbs like
a homesick angel, it is smooth and handles like an imported sports car.
That is the story, not some crap about the CG and the trim system. In
short, the writer missed the boat. By a lot. Did it improve the
Lightning by moving the CG forward a bit and having a trim tab like
other planes? Of course. But that should not have been the real focus.
3) What should scare the hell out of KitPlanes is the reaction of
others who would bring a new plane to market. About 3 years ago I
worked with Kitplanes to have the SkyRanger flown at Sun n Fun. That
writer was a seasoned professional and did a great job. He accurately
picked out the good and not so good features of a SkyRanger. I answered
his questions and he was reassuring. It was still nerve-wracking to
deal with media, but I was pleased with the outcome. He wrote a good,
honest report. At the time we were advertising significantly in the
magazine.
But NOW if I were a manufacturer I would not be very excited to hear
Kitplanes wanted to do a story about my new bird. This guy and the
editor missed the news point of the Lightning. What if they cant
understand the real features of my new design? Why would I want to
advertise with them? Am I to be the next designer to be badgered by
them?
I want to reread the article and plan to write a letter to the editor
that will better make the above points.
Tex, I think your being puzzled and confused is a reasonable response.
Doug Koenigsberg
________________________________
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read
reviews on AOL Autos
<http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut0005000
0000017> .
Message 7
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| Subject: | August issue of the Lightning Newsletter |
Can only suggest photo documented travel logs of trips with Lightnings.
When mine is built that will be the primary use - so I need some dream
material!
Wayne P in Perth Australia
________________________________
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Friday, 8 August 2008 9:27 AM
Subject: Lightning-List: August issue of the Lightning Newsletter
All,
Earlier this evening I forwarded the latest newsletter to Pete at
Lightning and to Jim Langley for them to post of their respective web
sites. The addresses for the respective sites are:
http://www.flylightning.net/
http://www.jimslightning.com/html/home.html
As always, I would really like to receive some specific feedback on the
newsletter. What things do you like or dislike? What can we co better?
What would you like to see in future issues? What kind of info do you
want from SYI? What would be helpful from the individual dealers? What
can you as a builder, flyer, or just a Lightning enthusiast send in to
be published in a future issue? Can you tell I am a little frustrated
and looking for some "vectors" on how this thing should be "flying"?
Heck, I need some velocity as well as vectors, or otherwise I will soon
burn out. "Push it up, lead, you are falling behind." As I said, any
and all feedback will be helpful.
Blue Skies,
Buz
________________________________
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read
reviews on AOL Autos
<http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut000500
0
0000017> .
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