Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:01 AM - Re: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG (James, Clive R)
2. 06:38 AM - Re: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG (Pete Krotje)
3. 07:38 AM - Re: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG (Jim Langley)
4. 09:21 AM - Re: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG (Charles Gallagher)
5. 12:58 PM - Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? (James, Clive R)
6. 01:41 PM - Re: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? (Jim Langley)
7. 02:01 PM - Re: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? (Allan Maxwell)
8. 03:04 PM - Re: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? (flylightning)
9. 04:56 PM - Another long distance arrival ... (Wayne Patterson)
10. 05:38 PM - Re: Another long distance arrival ... (Jim Langley)
11. 05:39 PM - Re: Another long distance arrival ... (Rick Bowen)
12. 07:40 PM - Must be a thunderstorm, Lightning everywhere! (selwyn)
13. 07:46 PM - Re: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? (Allan Maxwell)
Message 1
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Subject: | Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG |
What sort of speed Charles?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Gallagher
Sent: 11 August 2008 01:44
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG
Clive, this article should answer your question,the address is:
http://www.sonexaircraft.com/engines/35_dollar_burger.html . Jab3300 in
Sonex with Aero Carb. The cross county speeds gave 34 us/mpg and 36 out
for a Sunday fly. Keep us posted on your results. Rgs. CRG
-- On Sun, 8/10/08, James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com> wrote:
From: James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
Subject: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best
MPG
To: lightning-list@matronics.com
Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 7:03 AM
As I get nearer to flying my Esqual about I was wondering about
the experience of those who cruise around looking for the best MPG?.
Buz has explained his approaches either setting a fuel flow or a
target cruise speed but generally he's always moving fairly swiftly
cause he travels long distances.
Has anyone tried testing the speed/fuel flow for optimum MPG? If
so what RPM is turning in good figures with a reasonable cruise?
Over here in the UK fuel is silly prices, even the unleaded
Mogas I run my planes on. Also we can't go for too long before we get to
the edge......
If I'm going somewhere but am just enjoying the view and not in
any hurry I'll be looking for a speed/fuel burn that is optimum.
My Jabiru (SP, short wing long tail) cruises at 95 knots for 14
litres, slowing up drops consumption but she quickly gets nose up and
the dragging along means I don't get much improvement on the mpg,
certainly not enough to warrant flopping along with the nose in the air.
Long winged Jabirus fly at 2100 and get 10 litres an hour.
My Esqual doesn't have the spats or leg fairings on yet and has
the old Esqual cowlings and runs against a drag 'wall' at full throttle
(I can only do this for a moment as it overheats on oil temp). Naturally
the top speed will improve when I've done what I can as will the fuel
consumption but what would be a target cruise revs?.
All the numbers on the tests and other reports are all at fairly
high revs, all about showing how fast the planes are.
What about 100knots? Rev's? Fuel burn? 110? 95? My Esqual seems
to sit in the air nicely even quite slowly courtesy of the wings being a
little too long.
What do folk get with the Lightning at economy cruise?
I do realise that the Jab engine is built to rev more than a
conventional aero engine so maybe there's not much to be had for slowing
down....
Ta, Clive
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Subject: | Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG |
There is no more economy with an aerocarb. We've shown this for years now.
Several Sonex people boast about a 155 mph cruise at 4.9 gallons per hour.
We can routinely do 120 knots in a bigger heavier aircraft on 4.9 gph with
the bing in our Jabiru J230's.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG
Charles.
What are the specific advantages of the aero carb besides more economy?
Also, from reading the article, it sounds like the guy was adjusting the
mixture? Do you do this with the aero carb?
Thanks
Jim!
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Gallagher
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG
Clive, this article should answer your question,the address is:
http://www.sonexaircraft.com/engines/35_dollar_burger.html . Jab3300 in
Sonex with Aero Carb. The cross county speeds gave 34 us/mpg and 36 out for
a Sunday fly. Keep us posted on your results. Rgs. CRG
-- On Sun, 8/10/08, James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com> wrote:
From: James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
Subject: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG
As I get nearer to flying my Esqual about I was wondering about the
experience of those who cruise around looking for the best MPG?.
Buz has explained his approaches either setting a fuel flow or a target
cruise speed but generally he's always moving fairly swiftly cause he
travels long distances.
Has anyone tried testing the speed/fuel flow for optimum MPG? If so what RPM
is turning in good figures with a reasonable cruise?
Over here in the UK fuel is silly prices, even the unleaded Mogas I run my
planes on. Also we can't go for too long before we get to the edge....
If I'm going somewhere but am just enjoying the view and not in any hurry
I'll be looking for a speed/fuel burn that is optimum.
My Jabiru (SP, short wing long tail) cruises at 95 knots for 14 litres,
slowing up drops consumption but she quickly gets nose up and the dragging
along means I don't get much improvement on the mpg, certainly not enough to
warrant flopping along with the nose in the air. Long winged Jabirus fly at
2100 and get 10 litres an hour.
My Esqual doesn't have the spats or leg fairings on yet and has the old
Esqual cowlings and runs against a drag 'wall' at full throttle (I can only
do this for a moment as it overheats on oil temp). Naturally the top speed
will improve when I've done what I can as will the fuel consumption but what
would be a target cruise revs?.
All the numbers on the tests and other reports are all at fairly high revs,
all about showing how fast the planes are.
What about 100knots? Rev's? Fuel burn? 110? 95? My Esqual seems to sit in
the air nicely even quite slowly courtesy of the wings being a little too
long.
What do folk get with the Lightning at economy cruise?
I do realise that the Jab engine is built to rev more than a conventional
aero engine so maybe there's not much to be had for slowing down..
Ta, Clive
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"nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
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Subject: | Re: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG |
Thanks for the information Pete. My question about the aerocarb was more
out of curiosity than anything else.
On 8/11/08, Pete Krotje <pete@flylightning.net> wrote:
>
> There is no more economy with an aerocarb. We've shown this for years
> now. Several Sonex people boast about a 155 mph cruise at 4.9 gallons per
> hour. We can routinely do 120 knots in a bigger heavier aircraft on 4.9 gph
> with the bing in our Jabiru J230's.
>
>
> Pete Krotje
>
> Jabiru USA
>
>
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Subject: | Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG |
Clive,the article did reference average speeds for the cross country and lo
cal flying. There was not much change in MPG with slower flight,which I fou
nd interesting.Who knows what the optimum MPG speed is for other aircraft.W
hat stood out to me in the article was the attention to cylinder head tempe
rature and leaning to that value. With the Bing, after the initial set up,n
o adjusting is required.I have not been able to find a BSFC curve for the 3
300- which usually varies with RPM due to pumping losses.I'm going to the
September engine school and hope get more detailed technical info,if they
have the data I will post it.I wonder if starting from a safe low speed nos
e up configuration adding in 100 rpm increments find the point where angle
of attack levels out and the speed increases, then check the fuel used at f
ill up ,better yet I THINK,if you have a GRT AVIONICS panel with fuel flow
it will calculate your range, thus the best speed/rpm/fuel flow
.Forgive my ramblings,CRG
-On Mon, 8/11/08, James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com> wrote:
From: James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG
<clive.james@uk.bp.com>
What sort of speed Charles?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Gallagher
Sent: 11 August 2008 01:44
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG
Clive, this article should answer your question,the address is:
http://www.sonexaircraft.com/engines/35_dollar_burger.html . Jab3300 in
Sonex with Aero Carb. The cross county speeds gave 34 us/mpg and 36 out
for a Sunday fly. Keep us posted on your results. Rgs. CRG
-- On Sun, 8/10/08, James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com> wrote:
From: James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
Subject: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best
MPG
As I get nearer to flying my Esqual about I was wondering about
the experience of those who cruise around looking for the best MPG?.
Buz has explained his approaches either setting a fuel flow or a
target cruise speed but generally he's always moving fairly swiftly
cause he travels long distances.
Has anyone tried testing the speed/fuel flow for optimum MPG? If
so what RPM is turning in good figures with a reasonable cruise?
Over here in the UK fuel is silly prices, even the unleaded
Mogas I run my planes on. Also we can't go for too long before we get to
the edge......
If I'm going somewhere but am just enjoying the view and not in
any hurry I'll be looking for a speed/fuel burn that is optimum.
My Jabiru (SP, short wing long tail) cruises at 95 knots for 14
litres, slowing up drops consumption but she quickly gets nose up and
the dragging along means I don't get much improvement on the mpg,
certainly not enough to warrant flopping along with the nose in the air.
Long winged Jabirus fly at 2100 and get 10 litres an hour.
My Esqual doesn't have the spats or leg fairings on yet and has
the old Esqual cowlings and runs against a drag 'wall' at full throttle
(I can only do this for a moment as it overheats on oil temp). Naturally
the top speed will improve when I've done what I can as will the fuel
consumption but what would be a target cruise revs?.
All the numbers on the tests and other reports are all at fairly
high revs, all about showing how fast the planes are.
What about 100knots? Rev's? Fuel burn? 110? 95? My Esqual seems
to sit in the air nicely even quite slowly courtesy of the wings being a
little too long.
What do folk get with the Lightning at economy cruise?
I do realise that the Jab engine is built to rev more than a
conventional aero engine so maybe there's not much to be had for slowing
down....
Ta, Clive
http://forums.matList Contribution
"nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
=0A=0A=0A
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Subject: | Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic |
and pre-hydraulic engines?
I have a hydraulic tappet 3300 Jabiru engine. I've been chasing an
overheating problem whilst having a cooler that was recommended to do
the job. I've proven to myself that the cooler is too small and I now
have the cooler that is standard fit for the J400,430 etc. I've not yet
got it piped up and tried it but on the basis that this cooler in the UK
is usually partially blanked off I'm assuming my overheating problem
will go away.
One thing I did wonder about, has anyone come across a difference in
cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines?
Thanks, Regards, Clive
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Any difference in cooling requirements between the |
hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines?
I believe that Nick has said that the hydraulic engines run a bit hotter.
One thing that he has done to successfully keep the temp down is to
construct a cooling plenum attached to the oil pan vents on the bottom of
the 3300 and then cut and opening in the front of the cowl to allow
additional airflow over the cooling fins of the oil pan.
See the attached pic.
Jim!
On 8/11/08, James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com> wrote:
>
> clive.james@uk.bp.com>
>
> I have a hydraulic tappet 3300 Jabiru engine. I've been chasing an
> overheating problem whilst having a cooler that was recommended to do
> the job. I've proven to myself that the cooler is too small and I now
> have the cooler that is standard fit for the J400,430 etc. I've not yet
> got it piped up and tried it but on the basis that this cooler in the UK
> is usually partially blanked off I'm assuming my overheating problem
> will go away.
>
> One thing I did wonder about, has anyone come across a difference in
> cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines?
>
> Thanks, Regards, Clive
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Any difference in cooling requirements between the |
hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines?
Hi clive this is Allan maxwell I have 2 oil coolers I will send you a picture of
my set up soon. I was likeing to know about your chts ?
--- On Mon, 8/11/08, James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com> wrote:
From: James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
Subject: Lightning-List: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic
and pre-hydraulic engines?
<clive.james@uk.bp.com>
I have a hydraulic tappet 3300 Jabiru engine. I've been chasing an
overheating problem whilst having a cooler that was recommended to do
the job. I've proven to myself that the cooler is too small and I now
have the cooler that is standard fit for the J400,430 etc. I've not yet
got it piped up and tried it but on the basis that this cooler in the UK
is usually partially blanked off I'm assuming my overheating problem
will go away.
One thing I did wonder about, has anyone come across a difference in
cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines?
Thanks, Regards, Clive
Message 8
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Subject: | Any difference in cooling requirements between the |
hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines?
Clive,
I have noticed that at least with oil temps in our cowl configuration that
the hydraulic lifter engine runs hotter on oil temp. It is ok if we climb
and cruise and than land but when we start doing training and constant
takeoffs it doesnot get a chance to cool down enough so we have made a
little box that seems to work well.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James, Clive
R
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 2:57 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Any difference in cooling requirements between the
hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines?
<clive.james@uk.bp.com>
I have a hydraulic tappet 3300 Jabiru engine. I've been chasing an
overheating problem whilst having a cooler that was recommended to do
the job. I've proven to myself that the cooler is too small and I now
have the cooler that is standard fit for the J400,430 etc. I've not yet
got it piped up and tried it but on the basis that this cooler in the UK
is usually partially blanked off I'm assuming my overheating problem
will go away.
One thing I did wonder about, has anyone come across a difference in
cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines?
Thanks, Regards, Clive
Message 9
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Subject: | Another long distance arrival ... |
My kit (number 65) arrived in Perth (Western Australia) yesterday and is
safely keeping our cars out of the garage. We have an avid Lightning
community here - with this aircraft being the 4th Lightning to be built
at our club (Serpentine Aircraft Builders club). I am greatly looking
forward to reading the manual, looking at Jim's build site, and
supplying coffee to the Lightning owners in our club who have gone
before me!
The kit was very well packed (I work in logistics) and fits well in my
garage with good, safe work room around it. Had the "Round Sounds" Vol
1 CD playing as we unloaded (for those of you who like NOISE!).
Cheers form WA
Wayne Patterson
Message 10
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Subject: | Another long distance arrival ... |
Dang Wayne:
There ARE real houses in Australia!!
Great to hear that you received your kit and everything is in order! Now
the REAL fun begins.
Whenever I hear of someone like you who is starting on a new Lightning, I
start getting the same tingles up and down my back like I did when mine came
in for the first time.
Have at it and enjoy!
Jim
N730AL
www.jimslightning.com
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Patterson
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 7:55 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Another long distance arrival ...
My kit (number 65) arrived in Perth (Western Australia) yesterday and is
safely keeping our cars out of the garage. We have an avid Lightning
community here - with this aircraft being the 4th Lightning to be built at
our club (Serpentine Aircraft Builders club). I am greatly looking forward
to reading the manual, looking at Jim's build site, and supplying coffee to
the Lightning owners in our club who have gone before me!
The kit was very well packed (I work in logistics) and fits well in my
garage with good, safe work room around it. Had the "Round Sounds" Vol 1 CD
playing as we unloaded (for those of you who like NOISE!).
Cheers form WA
Wayne Patterson
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 11
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Subject: | Another long distance arrival ... |
Nice Wayne! Congrats on the arrival of the new "baby"....
I remember when my Lightning looked like that.....
Rick N727RB
Do not archive
Subject: Lightning-List: Another long distance arrival ...Date: Tue=2C 12 A
ug 2008 07:55:19 +0800From: Wayne@lpwa.netTo: lightning-list@matronics.com
My kit (number 65) arrived in Perth (Western Australia) yesterday and is sa
fely keeping our cars out of the garage. We have an avid Lightning communi
ty here ' with this aircraft being the 4th Lightning to be built at our c
lub (Serpentine Aircraft Builders club). I am greatly looking forward to r
eading the manual=2C looking at Jim=92s build site=2C and supplying coffee
to the Lightning owners in our club who have gone before me!
The kit was very well packed (I work in logistics) and fits well in my gara
ge with good=2C safe work room around it. Had the =93Round Sounds=94 Vol 1
CD playing as we unloaded (for those of you who like NOISE!).
Cheers form WA
Wayne Patterson
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_________________________________________________________________
Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live.
http://revealyourinnerathlete.windowslive.com?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAG
LM_WLYIA_whichathlete_us
Message 12
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Subject: | Must be a thunderstorm, Lightning everywhere! |
Kit 66 has arrived in Horsham in the State of Victoria in south eastern Australia.
I have had fun unpacking boxes and have started sanding and cutting holes.
So far interior rough sanded, opera windows cut out and spar cutouts made.
For those interested I am running a blog here http://www.recreationalflying.com.au/forum/blog.php?u=1094
It will be a bit of a diary, some pictures and some comments about how the build
goes. Everyone is welcome to browse and there may even be an idea or two to
get your creative juices flowing but remember the usual caveat. This is what
I'm doing, there is no recommendation that anyone else should do the same, I
have no special qualifications in design or construction and this is my first
build.
The other side of the coin is that I find the process of researching, discussing
and planning to be great fun. Make sure you enjoy that part of your own build
too, its a good part of the journey.
Cheers, Selwyn
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198065#198065
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Any difference in cooling requirements between the |
hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines?
Clive I am sending 6 pictures total --3 with this email of my planes- o
il cooling system. Allan
-
--- On Mon, 8/11/08, James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com> wrote:
From: James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
Subject: Lightning-List: Any difference in cooling requirements between the
hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines?
<clive.james@uk.bp.com>
I have a hydraulic tappet 3300 Jabiru engine. I've been chasing an
overheating problem whilst having a cooler that was recommended to do
the job. I've proven to myself that the cooler is too small and I now
have the cooler that is standard fit for the J400,430 etc. I've not yet
got it piped up and tried it but on the basis that this cooler in the UK
is usually partially blanked off I'm assuming my overheating problem
will go away.
One thing I did wonder about, has anyone come across a difference in
cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines?
Thanks, Regards, Clive
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