---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/11/08: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:01 AM - Re: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG (James, Clive R) 2. 06:38 AM - Re: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG (Pete Krotje) 3. 07:38 AM - Re: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG (Jim Langley) 4. 09:21 AM - Re: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG (Charles Gallagher) 5. 12:58 PM - Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? (James, Clive R) 6. 01:41 PM - Re: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? (Jim Langley) 7. 02:01 PM - Re: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? (Allan Maxwell) 8. 03:04 PM - Re: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? (flylightning) 9. 04:56 PM - Another long distance arrival ... (Wayne Patterson) 10. 05:38 PM - Re: Another long distance arrival ... (Jim Langley) 11. 05:39 PM - Re: Another long distance arrival ... (Rick Bowen) 12. 07:40 PM - Must be a thunderstorm, Lightning everywhere! (selwyn) 13. 07:46 PM - Re: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? (Allan Maxwell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:45 AM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG From: "James, Clive R" What sort of speed Charles? -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Gallagher Sent: 11 August 2008 01:44 Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG Clive, this article should answer your question,the address is: http://www.sonexaircraft.com/engines/35_dollar_burger.html . Jab3300 in Sonex with Aero Carb. The cross county speeds gave 34 us/mpg and 36 out for a Sunday fly. Keep us posted on your results. Rgs. CRG -- On Sun, 8/10/08, James, Clive R wrote: From: James, Clive R Subject: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG To: lightning-list@matronics.com Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 7:03 AM As I get nearer to flying my Esqual about I was wondering about the experience of those who cruise around looking for the best MPG?. Buz has explained his approaches either setting a fuel flow or a target cruise speed but generally he's always moving fairly swiftly cause he travels long distances. Has anyone tried testing the speed/fuel flow for optimum MPG? If so what RPM is turning in good figures with a reasonable cruise? Over here in the UK fuel is silly prices, even the unleaded Mogas I run my planes on. Also we can't go for too long before we get to the edge...... If I'm going somewhere but am just enjoying the view and not in any hurry I'll be looking for a speed/fuel burn that is optimum. My Jabiru (SP, short wing long tail) cruises at 95 knots for 14 litres, slowing up drops consumption but she quickly gets nose up and the dragging along means I don't get much improvement on the mpg, certainly not enough to warrant flopping along with the nose in the air. Long winged Jabirus fly at 2100 and get 10 litres an hour. My Esqual doesn't have the spats or leg fairings on yet and has the old Esqual cowlings and runs against a drag 'wall' at full throttle (I can only do this for a moment as it overheats on oil temp). Naturally the top speed will improve when I've done what I can as will the fuel consumption but what would be a target cruise revs?. All the numbers on the tests and other reports are all at fairly high revs, all about showing how fast the planes are. What about 100knots? Rev's? Fuel burn? 110? 95? My Esqual seems to sit in the air nicely even quite slowly courtesy of the wings being a little too long. What do folk get with the Lightning at economy cruise? I do realise that the Jab engine is built to rev more than a conventional aero engine so maybe there's not much to be had for slowing down.... Ta, Clive http://forums.matList Contribution "nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:12 AM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG There is no more economy with an aerocarb. We've shown this for years now. Several Sonex people boast about a 155 mph cruise at 4.9 gallons per hour. We can routinely do 120 knots in a bigger heavier aircraft on 4.9 gph with the bing in our Jabiru J230's. Pete Krotje Jabiru USA From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 9:07 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG Charles. What are the specific advantages of the aero carb besides more economy? Also, from reading the article, it sounds like the guy was adjusting the mixture? Do you do this with the aero carb? Thanks Jim! From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Gallagher Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG Clive, this article should answer your question,the address is: http://www.sonexaircraft.com/engines/35_dollar_burger.html . Jab3300 in Sonex with Aero Carb. The cross county speeds gave 34 us/mpg and 36 out for a Sunday fly. Keep us posted on your results. Rgs. CRG -- On Sun, 8/10/08, James, Clive R wrote: From: James, Clive R Subject: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG As I get nearer to flying my Esqual about I was wondering about the experience of those who cruise around looking for the best MPG?. Buz has explained his approaches either setting a fuel flow or a target cruise speed but generally he's always moving fairly swiftly cause he travels long distances. Has anyone tried testing the speed/fuel flow for optimum MPG? If so what RPM is turning in good figures with a reasonable cruise? Over here in the UK fuel is silly prices, even the unleaded Mogas I run my planes on. Also we can't go for too long before we get to the edge.... If I'm going somewhere but am just enjoying the view and not in any hurry I'll be looking for a speed/fuel burn that is optimum. My Jabiru (SP, short wing long tail) cruises at 95 knots for 14 litres, slowing up drops consumption but she quickly gets nose up and the dragging along means I don't get much improvement on the mpg, certainly not enough to warrant flopping along with the nose in the air. Long winged Jabirus fly at 2100 and get 10 litres an hour. My Esqual doesn't have the spats or leg fairings on yet and has the old Esqual cowlings and runs against a drag 'wall' at full throttle (I can only do this for a moment as it overheats on oil temp). Naturally the top speed will improve when I've done what I can as will the fuel consumption but what would be a target cruise revs?. All the numbers on the tests and other reports are all at fairly high revs, all about showing how fast the planes are. What about 100knots? Rev's? Fuel burn? 110? 95? My Esqual seems to sit in the air nicely even quite slowly courtesy of the wings being a little too long. What do folk get with the Lightning at economy cruise? I do realise that the Jab engine is built to rev more than a conventional aero engine so maybe there's not much to be had for slowing down.. Ta, Clive http://www.mw" target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matList Contribution "nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:32 AM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG Thanks for the information Pete. My question about the aerocarb was more out of curiosity than anything else. On 8/11/08, Pete Krotje wrote: > > There is no more economy with an aerocarb. We've shown this for years > now. Several Sonex people boast about a 155 mph cruise at 4.9 gallons per > hour. We can routinely do 120 knots in a bigger heavier aircraft on 4.9 gph > with the bing in our Jabiru J230's. > > > Pete Krotje > > Jabiru USA > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:34 AM PST US From: Charles Gallagher Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG Clive,the article did reference average speeds for the cross country and lo cal flying. There was not much change in MPG with slower flight,which I fou nd interesting.Who knows what the optimum MPG speed is for other aircraft.W hat stood out to me in the article was the attention to cylinder head tempe rature and leaning to that value. With the Bing, after the initial set up,n o adjusting is required.I have not been able to find a BSFC curve for the 3 300- which usually varies with RPM due to pumping losses.I'm going to the September engine school and hope get more detailed technical info,if they have the data I will post it.I wonder if starting from a safe low speed nos e up configuration adding in 100 rpm increments find the point where angle of attack levels out and the speed increases, then check the fuel used at f ill up ,better yet I THINK,if you have a GRT AVIONICS panel with fuel flow it will calculate your range, thus the best speed/rpm/fuel flow .Forgive my ramblings,CRG -On Mon, 8/11/08, James, Clive R wrote: From: James, Clive R Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG What sort of speed Charles? -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Gallagher Sent: 11 August 2008 01:44 Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG Clive, this article should answer your question,the address is: http://www.sonexaircraft.com/engines/35_dollar_burger.html . Jab3300 in Sonex with Aero Carb. The cross county speeds gave 34 us/mpg and 36 out for a Sunday fly. Keep us posted on your results. Rgs. CRG -- On Sun, 8/10/08, James, Clive R wrote: From: James, Clive R Subject: Lightning-List: Esqual-Lightning real cruise for best MPG As I get nearer to flying my Esqual about I was wondering about the experience of those who cruise around looking for the best MPG?. Buz has explained his approaches either setting a fuel flow or a target cruise speed but generally he's always moving fairly swiftly cause he travels long distances. Has anyone tried testing the speed/fuel flow for optimum MPG? If so what RPM is turning in good figures with a reasonable cruise? Over here in the UK fuel is silly prices, even the unleaded Mogas I run my planes on. Also we can't go for too long before we get to the edge...... If I'm going somewhere but am just enjoying the view and not in any hurry I'll be looking for a speed/fuel burn that is optimum. My Jabiru (SP, short wing long tail) cruises at 95 knots for 14 litres, slowing up drops consumption but she quickly gets nose up and the dragging along means I don't get much improvement on the mpg, certainly not enough to warrant flopping along with the nose in the air. Long winged Jabirus fly at 2100 and get 10 litres an hour. My Esqual doesn't have the spats or leg fairings on yet and has the old Esqual cowlings and runs against a drag 'wall' at full throttle (I can only do this for a moment as it overheats on oil temp). Naturally the top speed will improve when I've done what I can as will the fuel consumption but what would be a target cruise revs?. All the numbers on the tests and other reports are all at fairly high revs, all about showing how fast the planes are. What about 100knots? Rev's? Fuel burn? 110? 95? My Esqual seems to sit in the air nicely even quite slowly courtesy of the wings being a little too long. What do folk get with the Lightning at economy cruise? I do realise that the Jab engine is built to rev more than a conventional aero engine so maybe there's not much to be had for slowing down.... Ta, Clive http://forums.matList Contribution "nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:16 PM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? From: "James, Clive R" I have a hydraulic tappet 3300 Jabiru engine. I've been chasing an overheating problem whilst having a cooler that was recommended to do the job. I've proven to myself that the cooler is too small and I now have the cooler that is standard fit for the J400,430 etc. I've not yet got it piped up and tried it but on the basis that this cooler in the UK is usually partially blanked off I'm assuming my overheating problem will go away. One thing I did wonder about, has anyone come across a difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? Thanks, Regards, Clive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:34 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? I believe that Nick has said that the hydraulic engines run a bit hotter. One thing that he has done to successfully keep the temp down is to construct a cooling plenum attached to the oil pan vents on the bottom of the 3300 and then cut and opening in the front of the cowl to allow additional airflow over the cooling fins of the oil pan. See the attached pic. Jim! On 8/11/08, James, Clive R wrote: > > clive.james@uk.bp.com> > > I have a hydraulic tappet 3300 Jabiru engine. I've been chasing an > overheating problem whilst having a cooler that was recommended to do > the job. I've proven to myself that the cooler is too small and I now > have the cooler that is standard fit for the J400,430 etc. I've not yet > got it piped up and tried it but on the basis that this cooler in the UK > is usually partially blanked off I'm assuming my overheating problem > will go away. > > One thing I did wonder about, has anyone come across a difference in > cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? > > Thanks, Regards, Clive > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:01:53 PM PST US From: Allan Maxwell Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? Hi clive this is Allan maxwell I have 2 oil coolers I will send you a picture of my set up soon. I was likeing to know about your chts ? --- On Mon, 8/11/08, James, Clive R wrote: From: James, Clive R Subject: Lightning-List: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? I have a hydraulic tappet 3300 Jabiru engine. I've been chasing an overheating problem whilst having a cooler that was recommended to do the job. I've proven to myself that the cooler is too small and I now have the cooler that is standard fit for the J400,430 etc. I've not yet got it piped up and tried it but on the basis that this cooler in the UK is usually partially blanked off I'm assuming my overheating problem will go away. One thing I did wonder about, has anyone come across a difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? Thanks, Regards, Clive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:22 PM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? Clive, I have noticed that at least with oil temps in our cowl configuration that the hydraulic lifter engine runs hotter on oil temp. It is ok if we climb and cruise and than land but when we start doing training and constant takeoffs it doesnot get a chance to cool down enough so we have made a little box that seems to work well. Nick -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James, Clive R Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 2:57 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? I have a hydraulic tappet 3300 Jabiru engine. I've been chasing an overheating problem whilst having a cooler that was recommended to do the job. I've proven to myself that the cooler is too small and I now have the cooler that is standard fit for the J400,430 etc. I've not yet got it piped up and tried it but on the basis that this cooler in the UK is usually partially blanked off I'm assuming my overheating problem will go away. One thing I did wonder about, has anyone come across a difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? Thanks, Regards, Clive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:09 PM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Another long distance arrival ... From: "Wayne Patterson" My kit (number 65) arrived in Perth (Western Australia) yesterday and is safely keeping our cars out of the garage. We have an avid Lightning community here - with this aircraft being the 4th Lightning to be built at our club (Serpentine Aircraft Builders club). I am greatly looking forward to reading the manual, looking at Jim's build site, and supplying coffee to the Lightning owners in our club who have gone before me! The kit was very well packed (I work in logistics) and fits well in my garage with good, safe work room around it. Had the "Round Sounds" Vol 1 CD playing as we unloaded (for those of you who like NOISE!). Cheers form WA Wayne Patterson ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:22 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Another long distance arrival ... Dang Wayne: There ARE real houses in Australia!! Great to hear that you received your kit and everything is in order! Now the REAL fun begins. Whenever I hear of someone like you who is starting on a new Lightning, I start getting the same tingles up and down my back like I did when mine came in for the first time. Have at it and enjoy! Jim N730AL www.jimslightning.com From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Patterson Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 7:55 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Another long distance arrival ... My kit (number 65) arrived in Perth (Western Australia) yesterday and is safely keeping our cars out of the garage. We have an avid Lightning community here - with this aircraft being the 4th Lightning to be built at our club (Serpentine Aircraft Builders club). I am greatly looking forward to reading the manual, looking at Jim's build site, and supplying coffee to the Lightning owners in our club who have gone before me! The kit was very well packed (I work in logistics) and fits well in my garage with good, safe work room around it. Had the "Round Sounds" Vol 1 CD playing as we unloaded (for those of you who like NOISE!). Cheers form WA Wayne Patterson href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:36 PM PST US From: Rick Bowen Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Another long distance arrival ... Nice Wayne! Congrats on the arrival of the new "baby".... I remember when my Lightning looked like that..... Rick N727RB Do not archive Subject: Lightning-List: Another long distance arrival ...Date: Tue=2C 12 A ug 2008 07:55:19 +0800From: Wayne@lpwa.netTo: lightning-list@matronics.com My kit (number 65) arrived in Perth (Western Australia) yesterday and is sa fely keeping our cars out of the garage. We have an avid Lightning communi ty here ' with this aircraft being the 4th Lightning to be built at our c lub (Serpentine Aircraft Builders club). I am greatly looking forward to r eading the manual=2C looking at Jim=92s build site=2C and supplying coffee to the Lightning owners in our club who have gone before me! The kit was very well packed (I work in logistics) and fits well in my gara ge with good=2C safe work room around it. Had the =93Round Sounds=94 Vol 1 CD playing as we unloaded (for those of you who like NOISE!). Cheers form WA Wayne Patterson href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________________________ Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live. http://revealyourinnerathlete.windowslive.com?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAG LM_WLYIA_whichathlete_us ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:08 PM PST US Subject: Lightning-List: Must be a thunderstorm, Lightning everywhere! From: "selwyn" Kit 66 has arrived in Horsham in the State of Victoria in south eastern Australia. I have had fun unpacking boxes and have started sanding and cutting holes. So far interior rough sanded, opera windows cut out and spar cutouts made. For those interested I am running a blog here http://www.recreationalflying.com.au/forum/blog.php?u=1094 It will be a bit of a diary, some pictures and some comments about how the build goes. Everyone is welcome to browse and there may even be an idea or two to get your creative juices flowing but remember the usual caveat. This is what I'm doing, there is no recommendation that anyone else should do the same, I have no special qualifications in design or construction and this is my first build. The other side of the coin is that I find the process of researching, discussing and planning to be great fun. Make sure you enjoy that part of your own build too, its a good part of the journey. Cheers, Selwyn Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198065#198065 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:54 PM PST US From: Allan Maxwell Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? Clive I am sending 6 pictures total --3 with this email of my planes- o il cooling system. Allan - --- On Mon, 8/11/08, James, Clive R wrote: From: James, Clive R Subject: Lightning-List: Any difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? I have a hydraulic tappet 3300 Jabiru engine. I've been chasing an overheating problem whilst having a cooler that was recommended to do the job. I've proven to myself that the cooler is too small and I now have the cooler that is standard fit for the J400,430 etc. I've not yet got it piped up and tried it but on the basis that this cooler in the UK is usually partially blanked off I'm assuming my overheating problem will go away. One thing I did wonder about, has anyone come across a difference in cooling requirements between the hydraulic and pre-hydraulic engines? Thanks, Regards, Clive =0A=0A=0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.