Lightning-List Digest Archive

Sun 08/24/08


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:05 AM - Re: Re: I flew, I flew!!! (luigit@freemail.it)
     2. 12:55 AM - Re: Re: rudder cable attachments (Colleen Keen)
     3. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: rudder cable attachments (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
     4. 06:15 AM - Re: I flew, I flew!!! (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
     5. 06:54 AM - Re: I flew, I flew!!! (n5pb@aol.com)
     6. 07:02 AM - Re: Re: rudder cable attachments (James, Clive R)
     7. 07:32 AM - Re: I flew, I flew!!! (Jim Langley)
     8. 09:52 AM - Re: I flew, I flew!!! (James, Clive R)
     9. 10:49 AM - Re: I flew, I flew!!! (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
    10. 01:34 PM - Re: I flew, I flew!!! (James, Clive R)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:05:01 AM PST US
    From: luigit@freemail.it
    Subject: Re: I flew, I flew!!!
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---


    Message 2


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    Time: 12:55:06 AM PST US
    From: "Colleen Keen" <landonp@bigpond.com>
    Subject: Re: rudder cable attachments
    Hi Selwyn I first built based on original system, but was not happy as what ever position I set the bracket I could not prevent kink at end fitting. Your statement has merit. Regards Bruce #31 ----- Original Message ----- From: "selwyn" <selwyn@ellisworks.com.au> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 10:28 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Re: rudder cable attachments > > [quote="landonp(at)bigpond.com"]Hi Tex > > I modified the bracket to give a straight cable line at all positions. > The original bracket tended to kink cable to cable end fitting. > Attached a picture (gives idea but not a great picture) > > Regards > > Bruce Keen #31. > >> --- > > > Speaking as one whose rudder cables are lying loose in the fuselage > through lack of rudder at one end and pedals at the other this is all more > than a little interesting. > > First off, a question for Tex. What lead you to make the enquiry in the > first place? Was it problems with getting straight leads on the cables? > > Secondly to Bruce. Did you build the original system and find it did not > give a straight lead? If that's the case then it is a change that needs > to be made. If the system is tending to change the direction of the cable > as it exits the rolled swage then the cable is going to break. > > Thirdly to Jim. Now, it's late here and my brain has had a hard day but I > can't see what the length of the turnbuckles has to do with the lead of > the cables from the rudder. Can you elaborate? > > -------- > Cheers, Selwyn > Kit 66 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199893#199893 > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:09:58 AM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM
    Subject: Re: rudder cable attachments
    Here are a few more thoughts on the rudder cable discussion: -Modifying the cable to rudder attach points so that there is no "kinking" is a good idea, but the real important thing is to be sure the glass "pass through" holes are placed and shaped so that there is no chance for interference with the cable. I have seen some situations where the cable was able to catch on the edges of the glass and bind the rudder travel. Not good. -It is important to be sure you can get complete rudder travel as designed, but I see no need to modify so that you can get even more. So far I have not run out of rudder travel when landing in all kinds of cross wind in Lightnings and Esquals - well over 500 hours. Both airplanes have enough rudder effectiveness to perform good slips as they are designed. -From a maintenance perspective, you will probably need to re-tighten your rudder cables after about 6 months to a year of use. They cables seem to stretch a little and loosen up enough that you will have too much slack. I have noticed this on most of the Lightnings that I have flown. You will notice this need to re-tighten the cables if you are flying and can move the rudder pedals slightly without feeling any actual rudder input. On one airplane you could mode the rudder pedals more than an inch in either direction without feeling any real rudder travel. And don't forget to re-safety the turn buckles after adjusting the cable tension. Blue Skies, Buz **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:15:30 AM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM
    Subject: Re: I flew, I flew!!!
    Congratulations, Jim, I know it was a long time coming for you, but the rewards are tremendous. Enjoy the experience, take good notes for your test data, and keep up your good work of "sharing" with other Lightning enthusiast. See you and your "jet" in Tennessee on 27 September. Blue Skies, Buz **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:54:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: I flew, I flew!!!
    From: n5pb@aol.com
    Congratulations Jim.? I can well imagine your excitement....Mine is only a few months away!!! "Bear" -----Original Message----- From: Jim Langley <pequeajim@gmail.com> Sent: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 2:57 pm Subject: Re: Lightning-List: I flew, I flew!!! Just a short note to let you all know that I flew my Lightning today. Flies great! On 8/22/08, Jim Langley <pequeajim@gmail.com> wrote: > Tex: > > > You probably will need a shorter turnbuckle on one side, (I think it is the > right), to get things properly lines up, (pedals to rudder). > > > They may already shipped a long and short with your kit. If you get to the > point with your rudder cables, and your are out of alignment, then this is > what you will need to do. > > > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Kayberg@aol.com > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 7:12 AM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: rudder cable attachments > > > In a message dated 8/21/2008 8:37:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > wb2ssj@frontiernet.net writes: > > Has anyone tried a different means of attaching the rudder cables to the > rudder? tex > > > This is kind of a scary question, Tex. > > > I think most of us just hooked em up. Most of the fuss was in getting the > rudder on straight. The cables seemed kind of simple. > > > Doug > > > _____ > > It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal > <http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> here. > > =========


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:02:45 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: rudder cable attachments
    From: "James, Clive R" <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
    Thanks Buz, the problem was with a lot of the Esqual instructions there was no 'design' figure. No travel at the rearmost point or anything like that and the tail flanged bits clashed with the bulge in the rudder. Anyhow I'm sure I have plenty of travel now and I can fit some stops and take some away without worrying. Regards, Clive -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: 24 August 2008 14:10 Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: rudder cable attachments Here are a few more thoughts on the rudder cable discussion: -Modifying the cable to rudder attach points so that there is no "kinking" is a good idea, but the real important thing is to be sure the glass "pass through" holes are placed and shaped so that there is no chance for interference with the cable. I have seen some situations where the cable was able to catch on the edges of the glass and bind the rudder travel. Not good. -It is important to be sure you can get complete rudder travel as designed, but I see no need to modify so that you can get even more. So far I have not run out of rudder travel when landing in all kinds of cross wind in Lightnings and Esquals - well over 500 hours. Both airplanes have enough rudder effectiveness to perform good slips as they are designed. -From a maintenance perspective, you will probably need to re-tighten your rudder cables after about 6 months to a year of use. They cables seem to stretch a little and loosen up enough that you will have too much slack. I have noticed this on most of the Lightnings that I have flown. You will notice this need to re-tighten the cables if you are flying and can move the rudder pedals slightly without feeling any actual rudder input. On one airplane you could mode the rudder pedals more than an inch in either direction without feeling any real rudder travel. And don't forget to re-safety the turn buckles after adjusting the cable tension. Blue Skies, Buz ________________________________ It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here <http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> .


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:32:17 AM PST US
    From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: I flew, I flew!!!
    Thanks fellows... I am hoping that I can get the hours flown off by the time of the fly-in. I will be maintaining a specific page on my web site documenting my flight testing. Jim! N730AL www.jimslightning.com On 8/24/08, n5pb@aol.com <n5pb@aol.com> wrote: > > Congratulations Jim. I can well imagine your excitement....Mine is only a > few months away!!! > "Bear" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Langley <pequeajim@gmail.com> > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 2:57 pm > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: I flew, I flew!!! > > > Just a short note to let you all know that I flew my Lightning today. > > Flies great! > > On 8/22/08, Jim Langley <pequeajim@gmail.com> wrote: > > Tex: > > > > > > > > You probably will need a shorter turnbuckle on one side, (I think it is the > > right), to get things properly lines up, (pedals to rudder). > > > > > > > > They may already shipped a long and short with your kit. If you get to the > > point with your rudder cables, and your are out of alignment, then this is > > what you will need to do. > > > > > > > > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com <owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com?>] On Behalf Of > > Kayberg@aol.com > > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 7:12 AM > > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: rudder cable attachments > > > > > > > > In a message dated 8/21/2008 8:37:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > wb2ssj@frontiernet.net writes: > > > > Has anyone tried a different means of attaching the rudder cables to the > > rudder? tex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is kind of a scary question, Tex. > > > > > > > > I think most of us just hooked em up. Most of the fuss was in getting the > > rudder on straight. The cables seemed kind of simple. > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal > > <http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar<http://mapquest.com/toolbar?ncid=mpqmap00050000000010>. > Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & More! > > * > > * > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:52:08 AM PST US
    Subject: I flew, I flew!!!
    From: "James, Clive R" <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
    40 hours must be a real pain, I remember when I flew my Ultralight and 40 hours was a good year! Has the EAA never tried to get it reduced? In the UK it's 15 landings and take offs, at least 5 hours total with one flight of a least 2 hours (or a flight of max duration with a reserve if it's less). 40 hours is a lot of flying just for the sake of it. Even if you do some creative accounting...... -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley Sent: 24 August 2008 15:29 Subject: Re: Lightning-List: I flew, I flew!!! Thanks fellows... I am hoping that I can get the hours flown off by the time of the fly-in. I will be maintaining a specific page on my web site documenting my flight testing. Jim! N730AL www.jimslightning.com On 8/24/08, n5pb@aol.com <n5pb@aol.com> wrote: Congratulations Jim. I can well imagine your excitement....Mine is only a few months away!!! "Bear" -----Original Message----- From: Jim Langley <pequeajim@gmail.com> To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 2:57 pm Subject: Re: Lightning-List: I flew, I flew!!! <pequeajim@gmail.com> Just a short note to let you all know that I flew my Lightning today. Flies great! On 8/22/08, Jim Langley <pequeajim@gmail.com> wrote: > Tex: > > > > You probably will need a shorter turnbuckle on one side, (I think it is the > right), to get things properly lines up, (pedals to rudder). > > > > They may already shipped a long and short with your kit. If you get to the > point with your rudder cables, and your are out of alignment, then this is > what you will need to do. > > > > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of > Kayberg@aol.com > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 7:12 AM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: rudder cable attachments > > > > In a message dated 8/21/2008 8:37:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > wb2ssj@frontiernet.net writes: > > Has anyone tried a different means of attaching the rudder cables to the > rudder? tex > > > > > > > > > > This is kind of a scary question, Tex. > > > > I think most of us just hooked em up. Most of the fuss was in getting the > rudder on straight. The cables seemed kind of simple. > > > > Doug > > > > > > _____ > > It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal > <http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> here. > > > > > ________________________________ Get the MapQuest Toolbar <http://mapquest.com/toolbar?ncid=mpqmap00050000000010> . Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & More!


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:49:40 AM PST US
    From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM
    Subject: Re: I flew, I flew!!!
    In a message dated 8/24/2008 12:52:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, clive.james@uk.bp.com writes: 40 hours must be a real pain, Has the EAA never tried to get it reduced? 40 hours is a lot of flying just for the sake of it. Even if you do some creative accounting...... Two points: First, if you are using a certified prop and a certified engine it is just 25 hours. The current 40 hours (or 25) is down from the original 50 hours. Can't remember when that changed, but that is what I had to fly off on my homebuilt Pitts even with a certified prop and engine back in 1977 - yes, I am an old fart. Second, if you actually fly all the test profiles that should be flown to determine all needed data points for your airplane, it will take quite a few flights and hours to complete the testing. It took me close to 30 hours of actual test flying time on the Esqual to complete everything that should be done. The other 10 hours (to get to 40 total) were well spent learning all the neat things that my Grand Rapids EFIS was capable of doing - such as highway in the sky steering to a simulated instrument approach to any runway that is in the GPS data. Really neat. Too many builders just fly off the 40 hours and never really know their specific airplanes. They can get away with this because most have built airplanes that have been around for a long time and they just use the data that others have come up with, but they really don't know the actual data points for their airplanes. What is the real Vx, Vy, best glide (flaps and no flaps) for your airplane. What is your best fuel burn at different altitudes for different airspeeds or rpm?. What EGTs should you be seeing at various power settings? What is the best prop for your airplane? I could go on and on with examples, but hope everyone gets the point. It really does take about 40 hours to complete all the needed test profiles for your airplane. Without knowing these things how do you come up with a useful aircraft flight manual (pilot's operating handbook) for your airplane - as required by regulations? The FAA regulations on this (FAR 21 and 91) as well as FAA Advisory Circular 90-89A are pretty specific as to what you should be doing. They call the 40 hours (or 25) phase one testing. The EAA also has some good information on flight testing that is available through the EAA Flight Advisor Program. I encourage all of you to go to these sources and check with your friendly EAA flight advisor before you start your flight testing. Accidents on first flights have greatly decreased since the EAA Flight Advisor program has been in effect. For my own use, I have divided the FAA 40 hours (phase one testing) into a 5 phase program that I have used successfully on several different aircraft. The five phases that I have broken the 40 hours down to are: -phase 1 - Initial flight plus two others -phase 2 - Build data on aircraft and engine performance -phase 3 - Determine all V speeds -phase 4 - Structural and Stability tests -phase 5 - Max gross weight and CG test I have specific profile objectives for each phase and specific flight profiles for the first flights and then later flight profiles are developed based on data gathered to that point. It really does take close to 40 hours if you do all that should be done. You really need a plan for each flight in order to be efficient with the time that you have. You also need a good way to record flight data that you will use to develop such things as performance graphs. I use a digital recorder with a lapel mic that I put into one of my ear phone cups. With a voice operated intercom I just say the data that I want recorded and the mic picks up me talking and saves it for future playback on the recorder. Also, many of the new EFIS set ups have a way to record flight data for later download which is also useful. Bottom line, have a specific plan for each flight, follow that plan, record your data after the flight, and then plan the next flight based on what you learn on the previous flight and what you need to accomplish on the next flight. Blue Skies, Buz **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:34:11 PM PST US
    Subject: I flew, I flew!!!
    From: "James, Clive R" <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
    Ah, good ole Buz, straightening out the impetuous youth again... I do see the logic put that way. I've done nearly 10 hours on my Esqual and not got anywhere down my list of planned flights (well Buz's list actually). A full power climb without overheating would be a good start. When I said 'a pain' I was thinking of a sorted plane. My Jabiru was built to the instructions apart from a few 'personal' touches (full width panel). The test pilot flew twice for 20 mins once on his own and then once with me to check out my landings. Then that was it. I didn't do anything to that plane until the first oil change. It flew to the book figures (~) and it still does a 1000 hrs later. Again though thinking it through it's not a good comparison as the Jabiru is type approved by the LAA and when you build it you don't change it so you don't have anything to find out, except that it meets the book figures. The 40 hr rule has to cover all types of experimental of course, some unique and there must be occasions when it isn't any where near enough. I did think a late Lightining with the same engine, cowl, ducts cooling system etc as the latest demo model would come in the 'sorted' category though. I'm just reading the Starr guys book, You want to build and fly a what?, the 25 hour thing was explained there. Good feedback as usual mate, Regards Clive (youthful impatient 50 year old). -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: 24 August 2008 18:49 Subject: Re: Lightning-List: I flew, I flew!!! In a message dated 8/24/2008 12:52:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, clive.james@uk.bp.com writes: 40 hours must be a real pain, Has the EAA never tried to get it reduced? 40 hours is a lot of flying just for the sake of it. Even if you do some creative accounting...... Two points: First, if you are using a certified prop and a certified engine it is just 25 hours. The current 40 hours (or 25) is down from the original 50 hours. Can't remember when that changed, but that is what I had to fly off on my homebuilt Pitts even with a certified prop and engine back in 1977 - yes, I am an old fart. Second, if you actually fly all the test profiles that should be flown to determine all needed data points for your airplane, it will take quite a few flights and hours to complete the testing. It took me close to 30 hours of actual test flying time on the Esqual to complete everything that should be done. The other 10 hours (to get to 40 total) were well spent learning all the neat things that my Grand Rapids EFIS was capable of doing - such as highway in the sky steering to a simulated instrument approach to any runway that is in the GPS data. Really neat. Too many builders just fly off the 40 hours and never really know their specific airplanes. They can get away with this because most have built airplanes that have been around for a long time and they just use the data that others have come up with, but they really don't know the actual data points for their airplanes. What is the real Vx, Vy, best glide (flaps and no flaps) for your airplane. What is your best fuel burn at different altitudes for different airspeeds or rpm?. What EGTs should you be seeing at various power settings? What is the best prop for your airplane? I could go on and on with examples, but hope everyone gets the point. It really does take about 40 hours to complete all the needed test profiles for your airplane. Without knowing these things how do you come up with a useful aircraft flight manual (pilot's operating handbook) for your airplane - as required by regulations? The FAA regulations on this (FAR 21 and 91) as well as FAA Advisory Circular 90-89A are pretty specific as to what you should be doing. They call the 40 hours (or 25) phase one testing. The EAA also has some good information on flight testing that is available through the EAA Flight Advisor Program. I encourage all of you to go to these sources and check with your friendly EAA flight advisor before you start your flight testing. Accidents on first flights have greatly decreased since the EAA Flight Advisor program has been in effect. For my own use, I have divided the FAA 40 hours (phase one testing) into a 5 phase program that I have used successfully on several different aircraft. The five phases that I have broken the 40 hours down to are: -phase 1 - Initial flight plus two others -phase 2 - Build data on aircraft and engine performance -phase 3 - Determine all V speeds -phase 4 - Structural and Stability tests -phase 5 - Max gross weight and CG test I have specific profile objectives for each phase and specific flight profiles for the first flights and then later flight profiles are developed based on data gathered to that point. It really does take close to 40 hours if you do all that should be done. You really need a plan for each flight in order to be efficient with the time that you have. You also need a good way to record flight data that you will use to develop such things as performance graphs. I use a digital recorder with a lapel mic that I put into one of my ear phone cups. With a voice operated intercom I just say the data that I want recorded and the mic picks up me talking and saves it for future playback on the recorder. Also, many of the new EFIS set ups have a way to record flight data for later download which is also useful. Bottom line, have a specific plan for each flight, follow that plan, record your data after the flight, and then plan the next flight based on what you learn on the previous flight and what you need to accomplish on the next flight. Blue Skies, Buz ________________________________ It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here <http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> .




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