Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:40 AM - Re: Re: Flew a couple more times today (Kayberg@aol.com)
2. 07:07 AM - Re: 2008 (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
3. 07:25 AM - Re: Hand Grenade (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
4. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: Hand Grenade (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
5. 02:17 PM - Re: Re: Hand Grenade (Brian Whittingham)
6. 04:12 PM - Re: Re: Hand Grenade (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
7. 05:05 PM - Re: Hand Grenade (selwyn)
8. 08:18 PM - Re: Re: Hand Grenade (Jim Langley)
9. 08:19 PM - Re: 2008 (Scotty)
10. 09:23 PM - Re: Re: Hand Grenade (N1BZRich@aol.com)
11. 09:26 PM - Re: Re: Hand Grenade (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Flew a couple more times today |
I understand this is going to renew an old debate over fuel filters, but I
just wanted to note that Jim was using the clear, smaller scintered bronze
filter. I have a dislike of them because you cannot really tell what is g
oing
on. The small bits of fiberglass dust and assorted crud that were clogging
the filter were not really visible.
I like the large clear paper filters which offer a much greater surface are
a
for crud to accumulate. And because they are so cheap, it is a simple
thing to change them often.
Yes, I know water will clog them. But I have not had that problem. If yo
u
get water, you can see it in the bottom of the filter.
I just dont like the bronze ones. Have heard too many stories from
ultralight days about them
Doug Koenigsberg
In a message dated 9/1/2008 9:15:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pequeajim@gmail.com writes:
We went out and flew again a couple of more times. I had an issue with the
left wing tank, engine would not run as well on the left as it would on the
right. Changed the brass filter to a paper one and ran the engine again.
Everything seems to be ok.
Here=99s a pic
Jim!
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your trave
l
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 2
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In a message dated 8/31/2008 8:39:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
EAFerguson@aol.com writes:
I'm puzzled, Clue me in.
Disregard, Earl, it was a "joke" video about the "grass roots - Buz for
President movement. I have now decided not to run since the new Republican VP
candidate is an airplane owner - Super Cub.
Buz
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Hand Grenade |
Malcolm,
Good analogy about the things that cause accidents. Avoid the weather
related accidents ( poor judgement and decision making) and flight into terrain
(judgement and decision making) and you will have greatly improved the accident
statistics.
As to your hand grenade, I have flown the scenario you describe in both
power planes and sailplanes, and you certainly have an excellent point. The
stall / spin can sneak up on you when you are in a shallow bank with the airspeed
slowly bleeding off. Also, quite often the pre stall buffet is not as
noticeable with the flaps down. Bottom line, I certainly agree with your way
to
fly the pattern with steeper turns. That shows me that the pattern you fly is
closer to the runway and thus gives you a better chance to make an "on
airport" landing if you do lose an engine.
One word of caution for the Lightning community - remember the Lightning is
not an aerobatic aircraft, so you need to "prevent" the inadvertent spin
entry.
With you OK, I will put your message into a future newsletter so that the
points you are making will be available for future newsletter readers that might
not be currently receiving the Lightning email list.
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
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| Subject: | Re: Hand Grenade |
In a message dated 9/1/2008 9:28:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
selwyn@ellisworks.com.au writes:
My question to the experienced Lightning drivers is; has anyone done full
spins in a Lightning, how does it behave and are there any particular vices?
Given it is a slippery design, one would have to be careful of speed control
on recovery and, for the same reason, be able to differentiate a spiral dive
from a spin but otherwise, how does it go?
Hi Selwyn,
I have not done fully developed spins in the Lightning or the Esqual
(remember these are not aerobatic aircraft). However, I have done numerous
incipient spin entries just to see how quickly each will recover from the
incipient spin condition. No problems recovering - almost instantaneous when
you
"unload" (reduce angle of attack) and take out the rudder.
As to your concern about speed build up in a spiral dive, I have also
done numerous test in both the Lightning and the Esqual. I was a little
concerned about spiral instability due to the high aspect ratio wing when I first
started flying these airplanes. However, neither the Lightning or the Esqual
have demonstrated the tendency to want to "continue to get steeper and
faster". In fact, the new longer tips on the Lightning really improve the
situation. With power at idle, the prototype with the new extended tips steadies
out
at about 120 mph in a 60 degree banked turn when you turn loose of the
stick. It just stays there demonstrating that it is "pretty darn stable". Note:
This was the case at all the CG positions that I tried. I am sure the
winglets help, but the longer wing Esqual demonstrated no tendencies to get any
steeper when I turned it loose as well. Speed build up seemed to depend on
where I had the bungee system trimmed for, but it basically wanted to slow down.
Buz
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Hand Grenade |
Buz=2C
Was the incipient spin intentional or was it entered from a high speed st
all when doing your G testing? I know=2C not much you older and more exper
ienced pilots do that wasn't intentional. =3B-) Just wondering if you had
one creep up on you. I've done stalls through about 45 degrees of bank=2C
some pulling pretty quickly into it and never found to be surprised into i
t. I just wondered if steeper bank or stronger G you might have one go ove
r with you? Brian W.
From: N1BZRich@aol.comDate: Tue=2C 2 Sep 2008 10:51:04 -0400Subject: Re: Li
ghtning-List: Re: Hand GrenadeTo: lightning-list@matronics.com
In a message dated 9/1/2008 9:28:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time=2C selwyn@el
lisworks.com.au writes:
My question to the experienced Lightning drivers is=3B has anyone done full
spins in a Lightning=2C how does it behave and are there any particular vi
ces? Given it is a slippery design=2C one would have to be careful of spee
d control on recovery and=2C for the same reason=2C be able to differentiat
e a spiral dive from a spin but otherwise=2C how does it go?
Hi Selwyn=2C
I have not done fully developed spins in the Lightning or the Esqual (r
emember these are not aerobatic aircraft). However=2C I have done numerous
incipient spin entries just to see how quickly each will recover from the
incipient spin condition. No problems recovering - almost instantaneous w
hen you "unload" (reduce angle of attack) and take out the rudder.
As to your concern about speed build up in a spiral dive=2C I have also
done numerous test in both the Lightning and the Esqual. I was a little c
oncerned about spiral instability due to the high aspect ratio wing when I
first started flying these airplanes. However=2C neither the Lightning or
the Esqual have demonstrated the tendency to want to "continue to get steep
er and faster". In fact=2C the new longer tips on the Lightning really imp
rove the situation. With power at idle=2C the prototype with the new exten
ded tips steadies out at about 120 mph in a 60 degree banked turn when you
turn loose of the stick. It just stays there demonstrating that it is "pre
tty darn stable". Note: This was the case at all the CG positions that I
tried. I am sure the winglets help=2C but the longer wing Esqual demonstra
ted no tendencies to get any steeper when I turned it loose as well. Speed
build up seemed to depend on where I had the bungee system trimmed for=2C
but it basically wanted to slow down.
Buz
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
_________________________________________________________________
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yahoo_082008
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Hand Grenade |
In a message dated 9/2/2008 5:18:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dashvii@hotmail.com writes:
Buz,
Was the incipient spin intentional or was it entered from a high speed stall
when doing your G testing?
Brian,
It was intentional. Full stall and then rudder to start the spin entry.
But as soon as the yaw and spin entry started (incipient) I applied anti
spin controls to see if I had an immediate recovery. Forward stick and neutral
rudder broke the stall and stopped the yaw after about a quarter of a turn.
All went as I had expected. Note: I would have to have been pretty ham
handed (and ham footed) and not paying attention to get one without trying.
Either that or the airplane would really have to be WAY out of rig.
The only time I have been surprised in a Lightning was a "rigging"
problem in that one of the flap actuation rods had been miss-installed which only
allowed one side to go about 1/4 way down. This was on the demo and I had
flown it (and stalled it) many times before. This flight was to be a "flight
report" so I was going to fly a complete evaluation profile. I normally do
stalls first so that the gross weight and CG are as high and aft as possible.
With the flaps rigged so that the left side only went 10 degrees down and the
right side was 40 degrees down you can guess what happened when I did a full
flap stall. I was immediately upside down wondering "WTF"? As in any
situation where the airplane does something that you didn't ask it to do - UNLOAD
for control - meaning reduce angle of attack so that you just have that "lite
in the seat" feeling. It works whether it is a positive or negative angle
of attack. In this case an aggressive forward stick had me flying again,
although upside down. The ailerons and rudder were plenty effective for the
roll upright. Didn't take long to analyze what had happened after I recovered.
Ten minutes after landing the problem was fixed and I was back in the air.
Blue Skies,
Buz
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hand Grenade |
Hi Buz,
I wasn't thinking of spiral instability as such. More the case when practising
incipients and the thing falls off then unstalls itself completely. You then
have a nose down low drag config instead of a nose down high drag config and
need to be a bit more aware of speed build up.
However, I don't want to distract people from Malcolms point with a side issue.
His description, together with the information he has linked to, address the
root causes of one of the common ways people inadvertently kill themselves in
aeroplanes. Everyone would be doing themselves a favour if they read it and
thought about it until they thoroughly understood it. Even better if they found
a way to safely experience and practice the scenario so that they really know
not to go there at low level.
Cheers, Selwyn
[quote="N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM"]In a message dated 9/1/2008 9:28:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight
Time, selwyn@ellisworks.com.au writes:
> My question to the experienced Lightning drivers is; has anyone done full
spins in a Lightning, how does it behave and are there any particular vices?
Given it is a slippery design, one would have to be careful of speed control
on recovery and, for the same reason, be able to differentiate a spiral
dive from a spin but otherwise, how does it go?
>
Hi Selwyn,
I have not done fully developed spins in the Lightning or the Esqual (remember
these are not aerobatic aircraft). However, I have done numerous incipient
spin entries just to see how quickly each will recover from the incipient
spin condition. No problems recovering - almost instantaneous when you "unload"
(reduce angle of attack) and take out the rudder.
As to your concern about speed build up in a spiral dive, I have also done
numerous test in both the Lightning and the Esqual. I was a little concerned
about spiral instability due to the high aspect ratio wing when I first started
flying these airplanes. However, neither the Lightning or the Esqual have
demonstrated the tendency to want to "continue to get steeper and faster".
In fact, the new longer tips on the Lightning really improve the situation.
With power at idle, the prototype with the new extended tips steadies out at
about 120 mph in a 60 degree banked turn when you turn loose of the stick.
It just stays there demonstrating that it is "pretty darn stable". Note: This
was the case at all the CG positions that I tried. I am sure the winglets
help, but the longer wing Esqual demonstrated no tendencies to get any steeper
when I turned it loose as well. Speed build up seemed to depend on where
I had the bungee system trimmed for, but it basically wanted to slow down.
Buz
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047).
> [b]
--------
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2206#202206
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Hand Grenade |
Buz, I always love hearing about your experiences..
Nice explaination.
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: Hand Grenade
In a message dated 9/2/2008 5:18:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dashvii@hotmail.com writes:
Buz,
Was the incipient spin intentional or was it entered from a high speed
stall when doing your G testing?
Brian,
It was intentional. Full stall and then rudder to start the spin entry.
But as soon as the yaw and spin entry started (incipient) I applied anti
spin controls to see if I had an immediate recovery. Forward stick and
neutral rudder broke the stall and stopped the yaw after about a quarter of
a turn. All went as I had expected. Note: I would have to have been
pretty ham handed (and ham footed) and not paying attention to get one
without trying. Either that or the airplane would really have to be WAY out
of rig.
The only time I have been surprised in a Lightning was a "rigging"
problem in that one of the flap actuation rods had been miss-installed which
only allowed one side to go about 1/4 way down. This was on the demo and I
had flown it (and stalled it) many times before. This flight was to be a
"flight report" so I was going to fly a complete evaluation profile. I
normally do stalls first so that the gross weight and CG are as high and aft
as possible. With the flaps rigged so that the left side only went 10
degrees down and the right side was 40 degrees down you can guess what
happened when I did a full flap stall. I was immediately upside down
wondering "WTF"? As in any situation where the airplane does something that
you didn't ask it to do - UNLOAD for control - meaning reduce angle of
attack so that you just have that "lite in the seat" feeling. It works
whether it is a positive or negative angle of attack. In this case an
aggressive forward stick had me flying again, although upside down. The
ailerons and rudder were plenty effective for the roll upright. Didn't take
long to analyze what had happened after I recovered. Ten minutes after
landing the problem was fixed and I was back in the air.
Blue Skies,
Buz
_____
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
<http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> here.
Message 9
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This is some how appropriate, and you have my vote too. However, you would flunk
out as a politician. Here is the reason.
A cannibal was walking through the jungle and came upon a restaurant operated
by a fellow cannibal. Feeling somewhat hungry, he sat down and
looked over the menu...
Tourist: $5
Broiled Missionary: $10.00
Fried Explorer: $15.00
Baked Democrat or Grilled Republican: $100.00
The cannibal called the waiter over and asked, 'Why such a price difference
for the Politicians?'
The cook replied, 'Have you ever tried to
clean one? They're so full of crap, it takes all morning.'
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2239#202239
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| Subject: | Re: Hand Grenade |
In a message dated 9/2/2008 11:18:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pequeajim@gmail.com writes:
Buz, I always love hearing about your experiences.
Thanks, Jim, and in a way I guess that is one of the things that is good
about this list and our newsletter. They allow all of us to learn from the
experiences (and / or mistakes) of others. And that is a good thing becaus
e we
will never have enough time to learn all there is if we are just learning f
rom
our own mistakes or experiences. So spread the word, "you all" - send in
your flying and building experiences to me so I can include in the newslett
er.
Share the wealth of info that you have accumulated.
The preceding was a "crass commercial announcement" for the Lightning
Newsletter.
Buz
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your trave
l
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Hand Grenade |
In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:07:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
selwyn@ellisworks.com.au writes:
Everyone would be doing themselves a favour if they read it and thought
about it until they thoroughly understood it. Even better if they found a way
to
safely experience and practice the scenario so that they really know not to
go there at low level.
Shack, lead. And that translated means "you hit the target dead center".
Buz
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
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