---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/03/08: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:17 AM - Re Hand Grenade (Malcolm Ferguson) 2. 06:25 AM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (Kayberg@aol.com) 3. 06:53 AM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 4. 06:57 AM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (Mefford, Walt) 5. 10:40 AM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 6. 10:55 AM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (Mefford, Walt) 7. 11:16 AM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (N1BZRich@aol.com) 8. 11:25 AM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (Mefford, Walt) 9. 11:30 AM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (sttwig@wabroadband.com) 10. 12:33 PM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com) 11. 12:33 PM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS) 12. 12:51 PM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (Jim Langley) 13. 02:07 PM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (Brian Whittingham) 14. 03:16 PM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (N1BZRich@aol.com) 15. 03:25 PM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 16. 03:26 PM - Re: Re Hand Grenade (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 17. 05:32 PM - Lightning POH (Jim Langley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:47 AM PST US From: "Malcolm Ferguson" Subject: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade Buz, Selwyn makes a very good point. The message is that the shallow bank angle must be retained thru the exercise. It is okay to re publish it. The second very good reason for a well banked turn in a circuit is to stop some else running into you. The midair often happens on final when one plane descends onto another and it happens with monotonous regularity. A well banked plane becomes very visible to other aircraft. It will immediately catch their attention and has the added advantage that often there will be a flash of sunlight off the aircraft. Glider pilots will know that you can catch the flash 5-10 miles away then you can go and "borrow" his thermal. In Australia the required radio transmissions are to call "............turning base........." or "...........turning final............". To make yourself as visible as possible as you give your radio call, is a great service to other pilots. A third reason is that if you turn at 30-40 degrees your turn is over very quickly. If you are gradually washing off speed you are unlikely to get to the stalling stage before the turn is completed, and you are more likely to notice it. Another little tip is to line up on final slightly off line. Your instructor won't like it and your pilot friend will think you are a sloppy flier, but it gives you a better chance to see some else who maybe on final with you. Can't happen you say??? Well it can happen easily. You both are unfortunate to transmit at the same time so don't know each other is there. Just this scenario happened last year on a busy airfield where one of the Aussie Lightnings is based. EFATO. Practice makes proficiency and you owe it to yourself to be good at it. Read the information on http://www.auf.asn.au/safety/efato.html again. Some time ago the local aero club had a talk from one of it's members. He had been in the RAAF and went to the UK test pilot school(Buz will know its name) while seconded to the RAF for 12 months. 2 things he impressed on me. Fly high, for when the fan stops the higher you are the area available increases exponentially. He was highly critical of pilots who retracted the under carriage and flaps while they still had enough runway ahead to land if the engine failed. A great comment off another list: After an engine failure "land ahead to the hospital, turn back to the graveyard" Turning back can be done by very good pilots and the error margins are slim. It is a regular killer of pilots. I don't consider it an option until I have attained circuit height unless there is a cross strip strategically placed. All the above is only my humble opinion and is given to try to generate an active discussion. We need to keep our accident rate down. Insurance companies are talking about discontinuing insurance for Lancairs due to their accident rate. Think what that will do for the value of Lancairs and the health of the company. We don't want that. Now to go and have a fly and have some fun-if only I can get my radio back from the repairer. Malcolm Ferguson (Esqual-one of the early ones with the good airfoil except it lands too fast) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:03 AM PST US From: Kayberg@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade In a message dated 9/3/2008 8:18:17 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, malannx@bigpond.com writes: A great comment off another list: After an engine failure "land ahead to the hospital, turn back to the graveyard" Turning back can be done by very good pilots and the error margins are slim. It is a regular killer of pilots. I don't consider it an option until I have attained circuit height unless there is a cross strip strategically placed. I agree with the above with the exception of not turning back unless circuit height or more. I strongly suggest that pilots practice simulated turnbacks at altitude so they know what the bird will do. A loaded Citabria, for example, can make a turnback in 300-400 feet IF the pilot knows how. I sometimes wonder if the platitudes offered by instructors can be an excuse to not teach something. Why not just teach students how to make the turnback in the best way? Or pull the power a few times on takeoff and let the student discover his own reaction times? ( I suggest doing this with a lot of runway ahead of you!!!) I suspect about half of the turnback accidents happen because there was no training, only verbage. Instincts to turnback at low altitude can only be overcome with practice. In the case of instructors who always try to stay high, it is the lack of experience down low that can kill people. Of course having altitude means some safety margin. But a whole lot of pilots are not prepared for low flying. It is not the end of the world, cropdusters do it all day. What do others think the minimum turnback altitude is for a Lightning? Doug Koenigsberg **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:33 AM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade In a message dated 9/3/2008 9:25:46 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Kayberg@aol.com writes: What do others think the minimum turnback altitude is for a Lightning? Good discussion guys. Keep it up. But to address Doug's question (above), below is what Nick and I wrote in the Lightning Flight Manual, Chapter Thre e, Emergency Procedures. Everyone with a Lightning kit should have a copy of this Flight Manual. You can modify it to suit your liking, but it is provi ded as a starting point. Chapters three (emergency procedures) and four (norma l procedures) are designed so that they can be "shrink copied" and thus becom e an in cockpit checklist. ENGINE FAILURE DURING TAKE-OFF: After lift off =93 If no restart attempted 1. Speed -establish best glide speed - 87 mph 2. Altitude -check If 200 feet or less, land straight ahead. 200 feet to 400 feet, turns up to 45 degrees 400 feet to 600 feet, turns up to 90 degrees. 600 feet to 800 feet, consider turns back to the airport area. Above 800 feet, consider a turn back to the departure runway. 3. Flaps -extend as required 4. Fuel -off 5. Ignition -off 6. Belts -tighten 7. Propeller -set to horizontal position 8. Master -off 9. Land The above recommendations are based on lots of considerations (weather, runway length, airport environment, etc.) but if you use it as a guideline and practice max rate turns at altitude (power off in the takeoff configuration ), you will get a feel for what your airplane really is capable of and then ma y be able to come up with your own set of parameters for a "turn back". Buz **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your trave l deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade From: "Mefford, Walt" Where does one get a copy? Walt M. N881WP ________________________________ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 6:53 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade In a message dated 9/3/2008 9:25:46 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Kayberg@aol.com writes: What do others think the minimum turnback altitude is for a Lightning? Good discussion guys. Keep it up. But to address Doug's question (above), below is what Nick and I wrote in the Lightning Flight Manual, Chapter Three, Emergency Procedures. Everyone with a Lightning kit should have a copy of this Flight Manual. You can modify it to suit your liking, but it is provided as a starting point. Chapters three (emergency procedures) and four (normal procedures) are designed so that they can be "shrink copied" and thus become an in cockpit checklist. ENGINE FAILURE DURING TAKE-OFF: After lift off - If no restart attempted 1. Speed -establish best glide speed - 87 mph 2. Altitude -check If 200 feet or less, land straight ahead. 200 feet to 400 feet, turns up to 45 degrees 400 feet to 600 feet, turns up to 90 degrees. 600 feet to 800 feet, consider turns back to the airport area. Above 800 feet, consider a turn back to the departure runway. 3. Flaps -extend as required 4. Fuel -off 5. Ignition -off 6. Belts -tighten 7. Propeller -set to horizontal position 8. Master -off 9. Land The above recommendationsare based on lots of considerations (weather, runway length, airport environment, etc.) but if you use it as a guideline and practice max rate turns at altitude (power off in the takeoff configuration), you will get a feel for what your airplane really is capable of and then may be able to come up with your own set of parameters for a "turn back". Buz ________________________________ It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here =2E ------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:14 AM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade In a message dated 9/3/2008 9:58:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, walt.mefford@garmin.com writes: Where does one get a copy? You should have gotten a copy of the Prototype Lightning Flight Manual (POH ) when you got your kit (or shortly after that). It is on a CD and should be available from any of the Lightning dealers and from the guys at SYI. Nick , Pete and I came up with this back when just the prototype was flying and th ey have kept it updated as things have changed. It is put together similar to an Air Force "Dash One" (-1) with chapters or sections as listed below: GENERAL .1 LIMITATIONS ....2 EMERGENCY PROCEDURES ...3 NORMAL OPERATING PROCEDURES .4 PERFORMANCE DATA .. ..5 WEIGHT AND BALANCE ....6 AIRCRAFT AND SYSTEMS DESCRIPTOIN 7 AIRCRAFT HANDLING, CARE AND MAINTENANCE ....8 SUPPLEMENTS ......9 A Flight Manual (Pilot's Operating Handbook) is required for any aircraft (certified or experimental) and you, as the builder of an experimental aircraft, are responsible for coming up with one for your "jet". Arion cam e up with this one for the prototype, but makes it available to builders to use (and update to reflect your aircraft) as you see fit. Hope this helps, Buz **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your trave l deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:55:34 AM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade From: "Mefford, Walt" Nope. Never seen it. ________________________________ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade In a message dated 9/3/2008 9:58:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, walt.mefford@garmin.com writes: Where does one get a copy? You should have gotten a copy of the Prototype Lightning Flight Manual (POH) when you got your kit (or shortly after that). It is on a CD and should be available from any of the Lightning dealers and from the guys at SYI. Nick, Pete and I came up with this back when just the prototype was flying and they have kept it updated as things have changed. It is put together similar to an Air Force "Dash One" (-1) with chapters or sections as listed below: GENERAL................................................................. ..........................1 LIMITATIONS............................................................. ........................2 EMERGENCY PROCEDURES.............................................................. ....3 NORMAL OPERATING PROCEDURES....................................................4 PERFORMANCE DATA.................................................................... ....5 WEIGHT AND BALANCE................................................................. .....6 AIRCRAFT AND SYSTEMS DESCRIPTOIN.............................................7 AIRCRAFT HANDLING, CARE AND MAINTENANCE...............................8 SUPPLEMENTS............................................................. .......................9 AFlight Manual (Pilot's Operating Handbook) is required for any aircraft (certified or experimental) and you, as the builder of an experimental aircraft, are responsible for coming up with one for your "jet". Arion came up with this one for the prototype, but makes it available to builders to use (and update to reflect your aircraft) as you see fit. Hope this helps, Buz ________________________________ It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here =2E ------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:35 AM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade In a message dated 9/3/2008 1:56:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, walt.mefford@garmin.com writes: Nope. Never seen it. Well, you might want to check with Greg. I personally think it will save you lots of work if you get a copy from Greg or SYI. At least it will give you a starting point if you want to develop your own. Heck, I am kind of proud of it - maybe a case of "pride of authorship". Basically you should be able to use all of it "as is" with the exception of section five which is the performance data. The performance data that you gather during your 40 hour testing is where you would come up with data specific to your "jet". Any other Lightning builders or flyers "out there" who haven't seen this? Buz **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:04 AM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade From: "Mefford, Walt" -Buz I agree it would be an excellent starting point. Walt M. ________________________________ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:14 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade In a message dated 9/3/2008 1:56:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, walt.mefford@garmin.com writes: Nope. Never seen it. Well, you might want to check with Greg. I personally think it will save you lots of work if you get a copy from Greg or SYI. At least it will give you a starting point if you want to develop your own. Heck, I am kind of proud of it - maybe a case of "pride of authorship". Basically you should be able to use all of it "as is" with the exception of section five which is the performance data. The performance data that you gather during your 40 hour testing is where you would come up with data specific to your "jet". Any other Lightning builders or flyers "out there" who haven't seen this? Buz ________________________________ It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here =2E ------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:30:48 AM PST US Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade From: sttwig@wabroadband.com Add me to the list of never seen one. I have heard it referred to in the past and assumed I would receive one as I got closer to completion. It would be interesting to study now, though. Steve Kit #48 N357SL > Nope. Never seen it. > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > N1BZRich@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:40 AM > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade > > > In a message dated 9/3/2008 9:58:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > walt.mefford@garmin.com writes: > > Where does one get a copy? > > You should have gotten a copy of the Prototype Lightning Flight Manual > (POH) when you got your kit (or shortly after that). It is on a CD and > should be available from any of the Lightning dealers and from the guys > at SYI. Nick, Pete and I came up with this back when just the prototype > was flying and they have kept it updated as things have changed. It is > put together similar to an Air Force "Dash One" (-1) with chapters or > sections as listed below: > > > GENERAL................................................................. > ..........................1 > > LIMITATIONS............................................................. > ........................2 > > EMERGENCY > PROCEDURES.............................................................. > ....3 > > NORMAL OPERATING > PROCEDURES....................................................4 > > PERFORMANCE > DATA.................................................................... > ....5 > > WEIGHT AND > BALANCE................................................................. > .....6 > > AIRCRAFT AND SYSTEMS > DESCRIPTOIN.............................................7 > > AIRCRAFT HANDLING, CARE AND MAINTENANCE...............................8 > > SUPPLEMENTS............................................................. > .......................9 > > > AFlight Manual (Pilot's Operating Handbook) is required for any aircraft > (certified or experimental) and you, as the builder of an experimental > aircraft, are responsible for coming up with one for your "jet". Arion > came up with this one for the prototype, but makes it available to > builders to use (and update to reflect your aircraft) as you see fit. > > > Hope this helps, > > Buz > > > ________________________________ > > It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal > here > . > > > ------------------------- > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the > sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, > please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this > e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail > in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > Thank you for your cooperation > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:42 PM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade Hey Buz: I had not seen it until I asked Mark specifically for a copy. He then sent me an email copy of the generic one you & Nick had put together. Fortunately for me, I printed it because my computer failed this last week end. It appears that I have lost all my documents. Looks like it is new computer time. Lynn Nelsen In a message dated 9/3/2008 2:17:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich@aol.com writes: In a message dated 9/3/2008 1:56:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, walt.mefford@garmin.com writes: Nope. Never seen it. Well, you might want to check with Greg. I personally think it will save you lots of work if you get a copy from Greg or SYI. At least it will give you a starting point if you want to develop your own. Heck, I am kind of proud of it - maybe a case of "pride of authorship". Basically you should be able to use all of it "as is" with the exception of section five which is the performance data. The performance data that you gather during your 40 hour testing is where you would come up with data specific to your "jet". Any other Lightning builders or flyers "out there" who haven't seen this? Buz ____________________________________ It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal _here_ (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) . (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:43 PM PST US From: "JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade All, Buz is justifiably proud of the Lightning POH; in addition to the performance figures, however, there are probably several other places where you need to update with your own data. Examples are lists of equipment, pictures of your aircraft and panel, weight and balance, etc. I wouldn't have known about it either if Buz hadn't shown it to me and shared the draft copy. It should be available to all builders but it seems you have to bug someone to get it. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com To: lightning-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 1:39 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade In a message dated 9/3/2008 9:58:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, walt.mefford@garmin.com writes: Where does one get a copy? You should have gotten a copy of the Prototype Lightning Flight Manual (POH) when you got your kit (or shortly after that). It is on a CD and should be available from any of the Lightning dealers and from the guys at SYI. Nick, Pete and I came up with this back when just the prototype was flying and they have kept it updated as things have changed. It is put together similar to an Air Force "Dash One" (-1) with chapters or sections as listed below: GENERAL .1 LIMITATIONS ....2 EMERGENCY PROCEDURES ...3 NORMAL OPERATING PROCEDURES .. 4 PERFORMANCE DATA ...5 WEIGHT AND BALANCE ....6 AIRCRAFT AND SYSTEMS DESCRIPTOIN 7 AIRCRAFT HANDLING, CARE AND MAINTENANCE ....8 SUPPLEMENTS ......9 A Flight Manual (Pilot's Operating Handbook) is required for any aircraft (certified or experimental) and you, as the builder of an experimental aircraft, are responsible for coming up with one for your "jet". Arion came up with this one for the prototype, but makes it available to builders to use (and update to reflect your aircraft) as you see fit. Hope this helps, Buz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 9/3/2008 4:13 PM ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:22 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade Maybe they should put it up in the owners section. This way we would have access to it if we did not get the CD, (I did not either, but Buz saved me on that one) On 9/3/08, JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS wrote: > > All, > > Buz is justifiably proud of the Lightning POH; in addition to the > performance figures, however, there are probably several other places whe re > you need to update with your own data. Examples are lists of equipment, > pictures of your aircraft and panel, weight and balance, etc. > > I wouldn't have known about it either if Buz hadn't shown it to me an d > shared the draft copy. It should be available to all builders but it see ms > you have to bug someone to get it. > > Linda > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* N1BZRich@aol.com > *To:* lightning-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 03, 2008 1:39 PM > *Subject:* Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade > > > In a message dated 9/3/2008 9:58:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > walt.mefford@garmin.com writes: > > Where does one get a copy? > > You should have gotten a copy of the Prototype Lightning Flight Manual > (POH) when you got your kit (or shortly after that). It is on a CD and > should be available from any of the Lightning dealers and from the guys a t > SYI. Nick, Pete and I came up with this back when just the prototype was > flying and they have kept it updated as things have changed. It is put > together similar to an Air Force "Dash One" (-1) with chapters or section s > as listed below: > > > GENERAL=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =85=85=85=85=85=85=85.=851 > > LIMITATIONS=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =85=85=85=85=85=85..=85..2 > > EMERGENCY PROCEDURES=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =85=85=85...=853 > > NORMAL OPERATING PROCEDURES=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85. =85=854 > > PERFORMANCE DATA=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =85=85=85.=85..5 > > WEIGHT AND BALANCE=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =85=85=85..=85..6 > > AIRCRAFT AND SYSTEMS DESCRIPTOIN=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =85=857 > > AIRCRAFT HANDLING, CARE AND MAINTENANCE=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85...=85.8 > > SUPPLEMENTS=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =85=85=85=85=85=85......9 > > > A Flight Manual (Pilot's Operating Handbook) is required for any aircraft > (certified or experimental) and you, as the builder of an experimental > aircraft, are responsible for coming up with one for your "jet". Arion c ame > up with this one for the prototype, but makes it available to builders to > use (and update to reflect your aircraft) as you see fit. > > > Hope this helps, > > Buz > > > ------------------------------ > It's only a deal if it's where *you* want to go. Find your travel deal * > here* . > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > ------------------------------ > - 270.6.16/1650 - Release Date: 9/3/2008 4:13 PM > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:19 PM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade I've got a copy of it. I'll see if I can find it later. It's too big to p ost on this forum though. Perhaps Jim will host one on his site? g-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand GrenadeMaybe they should put it up in the owners section. This way we would have access to i t if we did not get the CD=2C (I did not either=2C but Buz saved me on that one) On 9/3/08=2C JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS wrote: All=2C Buz is justifiably proud of the Lightning POH=3B in addition to the per formance figures=2C however=2C there are probably several other places wher e you need to update with your own data. Examples are lists of equipment =2C pictures of your aircraft and panel=2C weight and balance=2C etc. I wouldn't have known about it either if Buz hadn't shown it to me and shared the draft copy. It should be available to all builders but it seems you have to bug someone to get it. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Wednesday=2C September 03=2C 2008 1:39 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade In a message dated 9/3/2008 9:58:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time=2C walt.meff ord@garmin.com writes: Where does one get a copy? You should have gotten a copy of the Prototype Lightning Flight Manual (POH ) when you got your kit (or shortly after that). It is on a CD and should be available from any of the Lightning dealers and from the guys at SYI. N ick=2C Pete and I came up with this back when just the prototype was flying and they have kept it updated as things have changed. It is put together similar to an Air Force "Dash One" (-1) with chapters or sections as listed below: GENERAL=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =85=85=85=85=85=85=85.=851 LIMITATIONS=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =85=85=85=85=85..=85..2 EMERGENCY PROCEDURES=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =85=85...=853 NORMAL OPERATING PROCEDURES=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85. =85=854 PERFORMANCE DATA=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =85=85=85.=85..5 WEIGHT AND BALANCE=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =85=85..=85..6 AIRCRAFT AND SYSTEMS DESCRIPTOIN=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =857 AIRCRAFT HANDLING=2C CARE AND MAINTENANCE=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85...=85.8 SUPPLEMENTS=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85 =85=85=85=85=85......9 A Flight Manual (Pilot's Operating Handbook) is required for any aircraft ( certified or experimental) and you=2C as the builder of an experimental air craft=2C are responsible for coming up with one for your "jet". Arion came up with this one for the prototype=2C but makes it available to builders t o use (and update to reflect your aircraft) as you see fit. Hope this helps=2C Buz It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c - 270.6.16/1650 - Release Date: 9/3/2008 4:13 PM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List" target="_blank ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matro nics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www .matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together=97at home=2C work=2C or on the go. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:35 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade In a message dated 9/3/2008 3:34:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lbmathias@verizon.net writes: however, there are probably several other places where you need to update with your own data. Examples are lists of equipment, pictures of your aircraft and panel, weight and balance, etc. Excellent catch, Linda. Another reason why this list is a good thing. We have others covering our 6. Good wingman (or in this case, good wingwoman or would that be good winglady?) Buz **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:08 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade In a message dated 9/3/2008 3:52:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pequeajim@gmail.com writes: Maybe they should put it up in the owners section. Jim, That may be a good idea. I like that better than posting on the list for several reasons. With it posted on the list Arion will probably have lots of people with open access to it, and that might cause some unforseen problems. Second, with it just in the owners section, Arion could post updates as they become available and that way could insure the latest information is published. I know that Nick checks this list several times a day, so he will see this suggestion and he can make the decision as to what way he wants to proceed. Buz **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:54 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade In a message dated 9/3/2008 5:08:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dashvii@hotmail.com writes: Perhaps Jim will host one on his site? As I mentioned on a previous message, I think the better solution is to have it posted on the Arion web site in an "owners only" section. That way they could kind of control its use and at the same time insure that only up to date information is posted. Buz **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:48 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning POH I would be happy to create a Lightning document section on the site, but need to know what is applicable to post, and what is taboo From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 5:07 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade I've got a copy of it. I'll see if I can find it later. It's too big to post on this forum though. Perhaps Jim will host one on his site? _____ From: pequeajim@gmail.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade Maybe they should put it up in the owners section. This way we would have access to it if we did not get the CD, (I did not either, but Buz saved me on that one) On 9/3/08, JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS wrote: All, Buz is justifiably proud of the Lightning POH; in addition to the performance figures, however, there are probably several other places where you need to update with your own data. Examples are lists of equipment, pictures of your aircraft and panel, weight and balance, etc. I wouldn't have known about it either if Buz hadn't shown it to me and shared the draft copy. It should be available to all builders but it seems you have to bug someone to get it. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: N1BZRich@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 1:39 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re Hand Grenade In a message dated 9/3/2008 9:58:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, walt.mefford@garmin.com writes: Where does one get a copy? You should have gotten a copy of the Prototype Lightning Flight Manual (POH) when you got your kit (or shortly after that). It is on a CD and should be available from any of the Lightning dealers and from the guys at SYI. Nick, Pete and I came up with this back when just the prototype was flying and they have kept it updated as things have changed. It is put together similar to an Air Force "Dash One" (-1) with chapters or sections as listed below: GENERAL...............................1 LIMITATIONS...............................2 EMERGENCY PROCEDURES........................3 NORMAL OPERATING PROCEDURES..................4 PERFORMANCE DATA..........................5 WEIGHT AND BALANCE..........................6 AIRCRAFT AND SYSTEMS DESCRIPTOIN...............7 AIRCRAFT HANDLING, CARE AND MAINTENANCE.............8 SUPPLEMENTS................................9 A Flight Manual (Pilot's Operating Handbook) is required for any aircraft (certified or experimental) and you, as the builder of an experimental aircraft, are responsible for coming up with one for your "jet". Arion came up with this one for the prototype, but makes it available to builders to use (and update to reflect your aircraft) as you see fit. Hope this helps, Buz _____ It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ - 270.6.16/1650 - Release Date: 9/3/2008 4:13 PM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ See how Windows Mobile brings your life togetho/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/' target='_new'>See Now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.