Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:39 AM - Re: (Kayberg@AOL.COM)
2. 05:14 AM - Re: (James, Clive R)
3. 05:32 AM - leading edges etc. (Tex Mantell)
4. 06:06 AM - Re: (flylightning)
5. 06:07 AM - Re: Homecoming Logistics (flylightning)
6. 08:32 AM - Re: Homecoming Logistics (N1BZRich@AOL.COM)
7. 09:01 AM - Re: (James, Clive R)
8. 09:02 AM - Re: Homecoming Logistics (EAFerguson@AOL.COM)
9. 10:13 AM - Re: (Jim Langley)
10. 02:49 PM - Re: Homecoming Logistics (JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS)
11. 03:20 PM - Homecoming (jng62433@AOL.COM)
12. 04:20 PM - Re: (selwyn)
13. 06:50 PM - Re: (Kayberg@AOL.COM)
14. 07:16 PM - Re: Homecoming Logistics (n5pb@aol.com)
15. 07:56 PM - Re: Homecoming Logistics (Jim Langley)
16. 08:04 PM - Re: Homecoming Logistics (Jim Langley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: htning-List: |
In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:25:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
selwyn@ellisworks.com.au writes:
Hmmm.. The leading edges, specifically the join between top and bottom
skins are part of the "D nose" structure forward of the spar. If that is not
structural can anyone explain where the torsional loads in the wing are carried?
As for how light the loads on the wings are, in simple terms from the Arion
specifications page, 1425 lbs at 5g is 7125lbs. Thats light?
--------
After I made my previous comments, I realized we were in for a
definition....a la Clinton. I recently had this discussion with a would-be engineer
who
tried to tell me a crack in a window frame on a building was "Structural"
Then my civil engineer buddy got nasty in claiming it was not structural. One
claimed it was part of the building, therefore it was structural, the other
claimed it did not hold up the building, therefore it was not structural. My
take on the leading edge of a Lightning is that while it is a good idea to
have MOST of the leading edge intact; to have some weakness in some of the
areas is not particularly deadly.
But there is a simple test. Go to one of your wings and saw a slot in the
very leading edge 1 foot in length. Then place a 60 lb bag of concrete mix on
it. If the wing doesn't fall off, it was not structurally necessary. Lest
you think I have lost my mind, here is the thought.
We have 91 square feet of wing on a Lightning and a 1425 gross weight. That
is 15.65 lbs per sq ft. Since you brought up the 5g load, make it 60 lbs.
PER SQUARE FOOT. Hence the suggestion of a bag of concrete mix. I doubt if
it would even cause the edges of a saw kerf to touch if the load is properly
distributed.
Looking at it another way, the 5 g load is .42 lbs per square inch, (60
lbs divided over 144 sq inches) possibly less pressure than than I am using
on each key to type this message. Hence my comments that it is a light load.
If you double that pressure to 1 lb per square inch, to simulate a 10 g
load, you probably cant wiggle even the thin spots using only 1 lb of pressure
on a fingertip. So while it is possible to get some wiggle out of certain
areas in the composite airframe, it probably takes 10 lbs of finger pressure
to do so. That equals 100gs of force per square inch!!!
The issue of torsonal loads was raised. If you remove ALL the material
forward of the spar, the wing may twist a bit easier. (but there is nothing
to
exert the load since the leverage material was removed) But as long as the
fuel tanks and the attach point at the fuselage remain intact, there would be
very little deflection.
So if you sawed a one foot or even 3 foot slot in the very leading edge of a
Lightning, would I fly it? Of course. I doubt if it would have any effect
on it as long as the slot was not more than a saw blade wide.
As an aside, I am trying to point out that 1) leading edge weak spots are
not a big deal....just fix em 2) that it is not necessary for the wings to
feel like steel plates for them to be safe 3) it is fun to think about some of
the number we hear kicked around 4) fly a Lightning on a hot day with your
seat belt loose. that will teach you something about wing loading!!
from your favorite word butcher
Doug Koenigsberg
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
Message 2
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I've not seen the construction of the Lightning wing but the joint
between the top and bottom skins is made up with something, adhesive
bead with glass cloth overlay?. The structure of the wing must be
supported in some way by the skin(s) whether it is taken credit for is
another matter I suppose but it needs to stay stuck together.
Can't someone do a sketch of the cut through the wing to show what joins
the top to the bottom of the leading edge or the left to the right on
the tail. As I suggested a few days ago?. The crack at the join, which
you can probably put your finger nail in in places, is the bit that
looks a bit 'daggy' (new word I got from Southern hemisphere) but it
doesn't mean there isn't something behind it that is holding the two
skins or sides of the monocot together. On my Esqual it looks to be
glass cloth over adhesive as I mentioned above but I don't know what's
in the bits that were closed up when I got them.
CJ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Kayberg@aol.com
Sent: 15 September 2008 12:39
Subject: Re: Lightning-List:
In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:25:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
selwyn@ellisworks.com.au writes:
Hmmm.. The leading edges, specifically the join between top
and bottom skins are part of the "D nose" structure forward of the spar.
If that is not structural can anyone explain where the torsional loads
in the wing are carried?
As for how light the loads on the wings are, in simple terms
from the Arion specifications page, 1425 lbs at 5g is 7125lbs. Thats
light?
--------
After I made my previous comments, I realized we were in for a
definition....a la Clinton. I recently had this discussion with a
would-be engineer who tried to tell me a crack in a window frame on a
building was "Structural" Then my civil engineer buddy got nasty in
claiming it was not structural. One claimed it was part of the
building, therefore it was structural, the other claimed it did not hold
up the building, therefore it was not structural. My take on the
leading edge of a Lightning is that while it is a good idea to have MOST
of the leading edge intact; to have some weakness in some of the areas
is not particularly deadly.
But there is a simple test. Go to one of your wings and saw a slot in
the very leading edge 1 foot in length. Then place a 60 lb bag of
concrete mix on it. If the wing doesn't fall off, it was not
structurally necessary. Lest you think I have lost my mind, here is the
thought.
We have 91 square feet of wing on a Lightning and a 1425 gross weight.
That is 15.65 lbs per sq ft. Since you brought up the 5g load, make it
60 lbs. PER SQUARE FOOT. Hence the suggestion of a bag of concrete
mix. I doubt if it would even cause the edges of a saw kerf to touch
if the load is properly distributed.
Looking at it another way, the 5 g load is .42 lbs per square inch,
(60 lbs divided over 144 sq inches) possibly less pressure than than I
am using on each key to type this message. Hence my comments that it is
a light load. If you double that pressure to 1 lb per square inch, to
simulate a 10 g load, you probably cant wiggle even the thin spots using
only 1 lb of pressure on a fingertip. So while it is possible to get
some wiggle out of certain areas in the composite airframe, it probably
takes 10 lbs of finger pressure to do so. That equals 100gs of force
per square inch!!!
The issue of torsonal loads was raised. If you remove ALL the material
forward of the spar, the wing may twist a bit easier. (but there is
nothing to exert the load since the leverage material was removed) But
as long as the fuel tanks and the attach point at the fuselage remain
intact, there would be very little deflection.
So if you sawed a one foot or even 3 foot slot in the very leading edge
of a Lightning, would I fly it? Of course. I doubt if it would have
any effect on it as long as the slot was not more than a saw blade wide.
As an aside, I am trying to point out that 1) leading edge weak spots
are not a big deal....just fix em 2) that it is not necessary for the
wings to feel like steel plates for them to be safe 3) it is fun to
think about some of the number we hear kicked around 4) fly a Lightning
on a hot day with your seat belt loose. that will teach you something
about wing loading!!
from your favorite word butcher
Doug Koenigsberg
________________________________
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the
latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com
<http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> .
Message 3
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| Subject: | leading edges etc. |
We have a builder (kit#66) with what he is concerned about which he
has over 50 grand invested, and his ass will be riding in. I don't think
that a discussion about his approach to find an answer is the topic to
tear into. I was in the same position. I received parts with areas with
no epoxy and it looked like something was chewing on them. It was not
what I expected as far as quality parts.
After a few phone calls and pictures to Shelbyville, I was very
pleased with there response, and had received replacement parts.
Also I have had to do allot of extra filling and sanding of areas
which I felt needed a little extra. I must add that my kit was the first
out the door and I expected to have some difficulty, but Nick, Pete,and
the people at Arion have been extremely prompt, professional, and just
fantastic to deal with.
So lets try and help our other builders and quit the "BS" about
structural loads, etc. and the words used to explain a problem.
TEX
Message 4
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Gary,
Please if at any time you find something in question send as many photos as
you like and notes to go along with it. We do hope that customers will come
to us with any issues so we can resolve them however needed.
Constructive criticism is important and well taken here that is how We can
evolve our product and make things better and safer for the next customer
down the road.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY
PENNINGTON
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List:
Nick
I believe you missed a great opportunity. An opportunity to demonstrate to
your customers that you really want constructive criticism from them, rather
than chastising them for it.
I have clearly explained the areas in question in my previous emails. I will
not repeat it. Further, I have already repaired the faulty areas, primed
them, sanded them and they are ready for paint. In the future, if I find
other areas of concern, I will photograph them and attach them with emails
as you suggest.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: flylightning <mailto:info@flylightning.net>
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:42 PM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List:
Gary,
It would be very interesting to see this paper thin glass as you are
describing. Tex has mentioned something similar however this was about
kit#1. Your kit being a significantly later one I am surprised to hear of
this. Also exactly what parts? Certainly not the vertical stab as suggested.
The only leading edges that could exhibit this would be the horizontal tail
and it is very unlikely that the leading edges are not bonded.
I never suggested you fell off the turnip truck, but it is important to have
the correct information before making assumption on why or how something may
be done. What is thin? We are working on a metal aircraft here and to me the
.016 skins on the horizontal tail are thin, now that does not mean they
should be thicker, heavier is not always better. There isn't a spot on the
fuse or leading edges for that matter that are thinner than 0.0625 and that
would be the leading edges of the horizontal tail, the rudder, flaps. That
is than backed up by the bonding flange which is twice as thick. It is
possible to have small voids in this, but no areas where the glue is absent.
This may feel like a thin spot but is not a structural problem. Like wise
with the trailing edges, you may be able to squeeze the tailing edges
together and get it to separate, did you try using a feeler gauge inside to
see if the glue was void or not? Take a picture and send it or ship the
parts back for inspection, this is a good option.
We welcome builders to share there issues and concerns that is what makes
the product better. But get all the facts before making assumptions on how
we took all this weight out and did not think about the structural integrity
of the part. It is safe to say we didn't stand back and say "that looks
straight" when we engineered the thing either.
I just speak form experience with the aircraft I have personally built 3,
the prototype, serial #29, and serial# 59, so I believe I get a good look at
the evolution the product and have a good spread of what we are putting out.
If you have an issue share as you like but please send photos for reference
and do not make assumptions.
Besides Arion was not a Bird but a horse and has no feathers to Ruffle.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY
PENNINGTON
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List:
To the Lightning list
It was not my intent to ruffle Arion's feathers. I simply wanted to share my
build experiences and possibly prevent a problem for Lightning builders
which could have easily been prevented. I can understand how protective the
Arion crew is about their aircraft. I would be too. Be that as it may, I
will continue to share my build experiences with the list, as I'm sure Nick
will continue to rebut. Looking at this from a different perspective,
perhaps Arion should be thankful that builders provide a "heads up" when
possible problems exist. This way, they could investigate and improve on a
beautiful product and perhaps save themselves considerable liability.
Truthfully though, I am more concerned with my safety and that of other
Lightning pilots than I am with Arion's feathers.
To re-address the issue of thin leading edges, I can assure you that I
didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I have considerable engineering
background and experience and I know "thin"! When I lightly pressed on my
leading edges, some edges had the consistency of tissue paper. Likewise,
some of the trailing edges had gaps of approximately 1/16". When squeezing
the surfaces together, not only were they not bonded 2", they were not
bonded at all.
Thank you. Fly safe.
Gary Pennington
email: pennington@q.com
----- Original Message -----
From: flylightning <mailto:info@flylightning.net>
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: Lightning-List:
Group,
The structure or tail section areas have not been lighten by 150lbs. The
first fuselage shell, everyone knows as the prototype weighed about 140lbs.
The current shell weighs 106lbs, a savings of 36 lbs. The flying surfaces in
the tail section i.e.; rudder elevator horizontal tails, have been lightened
by about 1-2lbs apiece. Saving around 6 lbs in the tail. Other structures
like the wings are down from 98lbs panels on the prototype to 78 lbs on
current models. The average weight decrease from the prototype has been
about 80lbs. In no way did Arion Aircraft shave weight at the cost of
structural integrity. Most of the weight savings came from new core
materials, better use of resins thru vacuum infusion, and yes somewhat
lighter lay-ups where on the prototype the schedule was not what was called
for in the design thru a mis-communication long before production. The
small void you may see in the leading edges of the rudder or even the
vertical stab of the fuse is where the two parts meet and is not a issue.
The flying surfaces are in-fact bonded together with a 2" wide bond strip on
the inside which doubtfully you can see. This would explain why looking at
the front it may appear that the surface are not stripped together when the
are. This would be the case when looking at any of the bonded parts from the
seam side. There are no seams in the leading edge of the elevator. The
vertical tail section of the aircraft has a lay-up schedule of
4oz-10oz-core-10oz-4oz, this is the shell itself, the half's are than
stripped together using 2 layers of 8" wide 10oz cloth, it is doubt-full
that this area was " so thin it was not safe". All parts are removed from
the molds and inspect for quality. They are than placed in an assembly
fixture to be built. The fiberglass shop responsible for the parts builds
many other aircraft parts of which several have STC's or PMA approvals and
go thru very strict quality control processes. Arion Aircraft has chosen to
use these same processes when manufacturing the components for the Lightning
Kit aircraft .We pride our selves on a good light weight safe part and if a
part does not meet this we would not let it out the door. It is possible
that a part may be incorrect and we would certainly take note. Remember we
put our butts into these things as well, fly family and friends and would
never sacrifice a parts quality or integrity to save a few pounds.
As for the pin holes, dupont sells a very nice high build primer which works
well to fill them.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY
PENNINGTON
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 10:19 AM
Subject: Lightning-List:
Good morning everyone
I have both a build question I would like to ask and a build situation I'd
like to share with everyone.
Question: Does anyone have an easy way to fill those annoying "Pin Holes"?
Comment: While I was working on the tail and control surfaces, I found
several issues that needed to be addressed.
First, the fiberglass on the leading edges of the Rudder,
elevator and portions of the Vertical Tail were very
thin, and in a couple areas, so thin it would not have been
safe. I re-fiberglassed these areas for structural
integrity. I understand Arion has recently lightened the
tail about 150 lbs. For safety, it may be a good idea
to add one or two pounds back.
Second, the surfaces are laid in molds and the halves are
then bonded together with resin or epoxy.
Many of these bonded seams were not bonded or poorly
bonded. Some were separated by at least 1/16".
I used AeroPoxy to repair these areas. It may be a good
idea to examine your surfaces for the same problem.
Thanks everyone. Fly safe.
Gary Pennington
email: pennington@q.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Homecoming Logistics |
Hank Williams yes..speedo NO!
Nick
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
EAFerguson@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 8:40 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Homecoming Logistics
All,
With the date approaching, it's time to do a little planning.
I'm flying in this time, so local transport is of interest. How many are
flying in vs driving, i.e. how many and who is renting cars. I'll be happy
to split one.
I prefer staying in Murfreesboro instead of Shelbyville. Its a little
further, but the rates and accommodations are better. Sorry Buz, the Country
Inn just doesn't turn me on. The Ramada Inn at I-24 in Murfreesboro at least
has a waffle iron for their 'free' breakfast.
How many wives are coming? Mine is not partial to how to build an airplane
sessions, and doesn't fly with me. She's not into Walking Horses either.
Other entertainment at SYI is limited.
The Beech Staggerwing museum in Tullahoma is newly expanded, and I hear very
good. They did have an aircraft parking ramp, but I don't know about now.
Afternoon excursion? Its only a 10 min flight.
I heard there is a new Swift Museum somewhere in the area. Anybody know
about that one?
Is there going to be a decent band at Bell Buckle?
Should I bring/wear my speedo? How about my Hank Williams collection?
_____
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new
<http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Homecoming Logistics |
In a message dated 9/13/2008 9:42:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
EAFerguson@aol.com writes:
I prefer staying in Murfreesboro instead of Shelbyville. Its a little
further, but the rates and accommodations are better. Sorry Buz, the Country Inn
just doesn't turn me on. The Ramada Inn at I-24 in Murfreesboro at least has a
waffle iron for their 'free' breakfast.
Earl.
Probably a good choice for several reasons. Even though the Country
Hearth is only minutes away from SYI, the "special rate" has gone up recently
(around 63 per night now instead of 55) and the room "neatness" has varied on
my last several trips there. They always take care of any problems I mention,
but there should be no problems when a guest arrives. So your choice to
stay further north is understandable.
I plan to fly out, but my current plan is to arrive this Thursday
(weather permitting) and thus be there for a week and a half. Will be helping
them
around the hangar as required and doing some more performance testing on the
new wing tips and any other flying that needs to be done.
Looking forward to seeing everyone there.
Buz
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
Message 7
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Sketch, I'm curious now. Can Nick enlighten me? As I'm sure the Esqual
is built the same.
Are the smaller structures like this but without the glass cloth? How
would you get the cloth in?
CJ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James,
Clive R
Sent: 15 September 2008 13:14
Subject: RE: Lightning-List:
--> <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
I've not seen the construction of the Lightning wing but the joint
between the top and bottom skins is made up with something, adhesive
bead with glass cloth overlay?. The structure of the wing must be
supported in some way by the skin(s) whether it is taken credit for is
another matter I suppose but it needs to stay stuck together.
Can't someone do a sketch of the cut through the wing to show what joins
the top to the bottom of the leading edge or the left to the right on
the tail. As I suggested a few days ago?. The crack at the join, which
you can probably put your finger nail in in places, is the bit that
looks a bit 'daggy' (new word I got from Southern hemisphere) but it
doesn't mean there isn't something behind it that is holding the two
skins or sides of the monocot together. On my Esqual it looks to be
glass cloth over adhesive as I mentioned above but I don't know what's
in the bits that were closed up when I got them.
CJ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Kayberg@aol.com
Sent: 15 September 2008 12:39
Subject: Re: Lightning-List:
In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:25:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
selwyn@ellisworks.com.au writes:
Hmmm.. The leading edges, specifically the join between top
and bottom skins are part of the "D nose" structure forward of the spar.
If that is not structural can anyone explain where the torsional loads
in the wing are carried?
As for how light the loads on the wings are, in simple terms
from the Arion specifications page, 1425 lbs at 5g is 7125lbs. Thats
light?
--------
After I made my previous comments, I realized we were in for a
definition....a la Clinton. I recently had this discussion with a
would-be engineer who tried to tell me a crack in a window frame on a
building was "Structural" Then my civil engineer buddy got nasty in
claiming it was not structural. One claimed it was part of the
building, therefore it was structural, the other claimed it did not hold
up the building, therefore it was not structural. My take on the
leading edge of a Lightning is that while it is a good idea to have MOST
of the leading edge intact; to have some weakness in some of the areas
is not particularly deadly.
But there is a simple test. Go to one of your wings and saw a slot in
the very leading edge 1 foot in length. Then place a 60 lb bag of
concrete mix on it. If the wing doesn't fall off, it was not
structurally necessary. Lest you think I have lost my mind, here is the
thought.
We have 91 square feet of wing on a Lightning and a 1425 gross weight.
That is 15.65 lbs per sq ft. Since you brought up the 5g load, make it
60 lbs. PER SQUARE FOOT. Hence the suggestion of a bag of concrete
mix. I doubt if it would even cause the edges of a saw kerf to touch
if the load is properly distributed.
Looking at it another way, the 5 g load is .42 lbs per square inch,
(60 lbs divided over 144 sq inches) possibly less pressure than than I
am using on each key to type this message. Hence my comments that it is
a light load. If you double that pressure to 1 lb per square inch, to
simulate a 10 g load, you probably cant wiggle even the thin spots using
only 1 lb of pressure on a fingertip. So while it is possible to get
some wiggle out of certain areas in the composite airframe, it probably
takes 10 lbs of finger pressure to do so. That equals 100gs of force
per square inch!!!
The issue of torsonal loads was raised. If you remove ALL the material
forward of the spar, the wing may twist a bit easier. (but there is
nothing to exert the load since the leverage material was removed) But
as long as the fuel tanks and the attach point at the fuselage remain
intact, there would be very little deflection.
So if you sawed a one foot or even 3 foot slot in the very leading edge
of a Lightning, would I fly it? Of course. I doubt if it would have
any effect on it as long as the slot was not more than a saw blade wide.
As an aside, I am trying to point out that 1) leading edge weak spots
are not a big deal....just fix em 2) that it is not necessary for the
wings to feel like steel plates for them to be safe 3) it is fun to
think about some of the number we hear kicked around 4) fly a Lightning
on a hot day with your seat belt loose. that will teach you something
about wing loading!!
from your favorite word butcher
Doug Koenigsberg
________________________________
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Homecoming Logistics |
In a message dated 9/15/2008 11:32:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
N1BZRich@AOL.COM writes:
Earl.
Probably a good choice for several reasons. Even though the Country
Hearth is only minutes away from SYI, the "special rate" has gone up recently
(around 63 per night now instead of 55) and the room "neatness" has varied on
my last several trips there. They always take care of any problems I mention,
but there should be no problems when a guest arrives. So your choice to
stay further north is understandable.
Buz,
Looks like we're in agreement. There are two motels at I-24 in Murfreesboro,
the Ramada I mentioned and the Knights Inn. Both are ok with the Knights Inn
being slightly cheaper but the Ramada has a better breakfast. Since you're
there earlier, perhaps you would be willing to check on the current deals on
these two. Which one is just dying to become our HQ Hotel!!.
Earl
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: htning-List: |
For
On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 11:58 AM, James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com>wrote:
> Sketch, I'm curious now. Can Nick enlighten me? As I'm sure the Esqual
> is built the same.
> Are the smaller structures like this but without the glass cloth? How
> would you get the cloth in?
>
> CJ
>
For some of you that are curious about the Lightning construction, you can
go to the contractor's site that does all the manufacturing of the parts and
look at some of the pictures. It gives you an idea of the enormity of the
operation. Now granted, they are doing a lot of other work there as well,
but you will see some pictures with Lightning parts in them.
http://www.customfiberglassmolding.com
Jim!
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Homecoming Logistics |
Earl,
Joe and I will probably stay at the Ramada also; we plan to arrive
at SYI late Tuesday afternoon so we can get the trim tab installed on
the Lightning before Saturday. I found a website that lists the Ramada
for $56/night but it is non-refundable. Until I see what the weather
is going to be, I am reluctant to make the reservation. In any event,
we will be renting a car and you are welcome to share it.
Looking forward to seeing everyone!
Linda
----- Original Message -----
From: EAFerguson@aol.com
To: Lightning-List@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:40 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Homecoming Logistics
All,
With the date approaching, it's time to do a little planning.
I'm flying in this time, so local transport is of interest. How many
are flying in vs driving, i.e. how many and who is renting cars. I'll be
happy to split one.
I prefer staying in Murfreesboro instead of Shelbyville. Its a little
further, but the rates and accommodations are better. Sorry Buz, the
Country Inn just doesn't turn me on. The Ramada Inn at I-24 in
Murfreesboro at least has a waffle iron for their 'free' breakfast.
How many wives are coming? Mine is not partial to how to build an
airplane sessions, and doesn't fly with me. She's not into Walking
Horses either. Other entertainment at SYI is limited.
The Beech Staggerwing museum in Tullahoma is newly expanded, and I
hear very good. They did have an aircraft parking ramp, but I don't know
about now. Afternoon excursion? Its only a 10 min flight.
I heard there is a new Swift Museum somewhere in the area. Anybody
know about that one?
Is there going to be a decent band at Bell Buckle?
Should I bring/wear my speedo? How about my Hank Williams collection?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the
latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
9/13/2008 12:50 PM
Message 11
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To the Group- Attn: Earl
>From Jim Goad in Punta Gorda Florida LIGHTNING #41 166JG
I plan to fly up on Friday ( weather permitting) for the annual fly-in.
In the past I Have stayed at the Knights Inn in Murphysboro, last year
the rate was under $40.00 a night and the rooms were clean.would be
glad to share a car rental, I would even consider sharing a room, if
you don't make fun of my negligee.
The rest of the group should not get excited because I don't sleep
around.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: htning-List: |
Clive J wrote:
> Sketch, I'm curious now. Can Nick enlighten me? As I'm sure the Esqual
> is built the same.
> Are the smaller structures like this but without the glass cloth? How
> would you get the cloth in?
>
> CJ
>
> --
Hi Clive,
I expect Nick may do a better job of this later on but, looking at my wing, I can
see that the lower surface skin wraps right around the leading edge and extends
for an inch and a half or so under the top skin. The top skin is laid over
this flange and the two bonded together. In mine I can see the holes where
screws or some such were used to hold the mating surfaces together while the
thing cured.
This means that the very leading edge is not where the strength is developed, and
gaps right there probably only extend in to meet the bottom skin as it curves
up and under the top skin and don't mean much except the filler job at the
factory was a bit rough. The strength is where the bottom skin is overlaid by
the top skin.
This method is used on many composite sailplanes and is quite successful with these
very long, very high aspect ratio wings.
To Doug and your comments about sawing slots in leading edges and the like, my
recommendation to you is to put those English skills to use reading up on some
basic aircraft structures and flight loads information.
--------
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4463#204463
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: htning-List: |
In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:20:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
selwyn@ellisworks.com.au writes:
This means that the very leading edge is not where the strength is
developed, and gaps right there probably only extend in to meet the bottom skin
as it
curves up and under the top skin and don't mean much except the filler job at
the factory was a bit rough. The strength is where the bottom skin is
overlaid by the top skin.
This method is used on many composite sailplanes and is quite successful
with these very long, very high aspect ratio wings.
To Doug and your comments about sawing slots in leading edges and the like,
my recommendation to you is to put those English skills to use reading up on
some basic aircraft structures and flight loads information.
Selwyn,
Putting my English skillS to work, MAY THE BIRD OF PARADISE FLY UP YOUR
NOSE!!!!
But seriously, we agree about one thing. "The leading edge is not where
strength is developed."
Pardon me for not making that clear.
Doug
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Homecoming Logistics |
Hey Buz,
Started my build today!? They got me working pretty hard.? I'm just now cought
up with my log and pics for day 1.? It will be great to see you on thursday.
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM
Sent: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:31 am
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Homecoming Logistics
In a message dated 9/13/2008 9:42:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, EAFerguson@aol.com
writes:
I prefer staying in Murfreesboro instead of Shelbyville. Its a little further,
but the rates and accommodations are better. Sorry Buz, the Country Inn just doesn't
turn me on. The Ramada Inn at I-24 in Murfreesboro at least has a waffle?iron
for their 'free' breakfast.?
Earl.?
????Probably a good choice for several reasons.? Even though the Country Hearth
is only minutes away from SYI, the "special rate" has gone up recently (around
63 per night now instead of 55) and the room "neatness" has varied on my last
several trips there.? They always take care of any problems I mention, but there
should be no problems when a guest arrives.? So your choice to stay further
north is understandable.?
????I plan to fly out, but my current plan is to arrive this Thursday (weather
permitting) and thus be there for a week and a half.? Will be helping them around
the hangar as required and doing some more performance testing on the new
wing tips and any other flying that needs to be done.?
????Looking forward to seeing everyone there.
Buz
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall
trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Homecoming Logistics |
Sorry I will not be making the fly-in again this year. Logistical problems
prevent me from flying off my hours before the fly-in.
Have a great time!
Jim!
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOSEPH
MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Homecoming Logistics
Earl,
Joe and I will probably stay at the Ramada also; we plan to arrive at
SYI late Tuesday afternoon so we can get the trim tab installed on the
Lightning before Saturday. I found a website that lists the Ramada for
$56/night but it is non-refundable. Until I see what the weather is going
to be, I am reluctant to make the reservation. In any event, we will be
renting a car and you are welcome to share it.
Looking forward to seeing everyone!
Linda
----- Original Message -----
From: EAFerguson@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:40 PM
Subject: Lightning-List: Homecoming Logistics
All,
With the date approaching, it's time to do a little planning.
I'm flying in this time, so local transport is of interest. How many are
flying in vs driving, i.e. how many and who is renting cars. I'll be happy
to split one.
I prefer staying in Murfreesboro instead of Shelbyville. Its a little
further, but the rates and accommodations are better. Sorry Buz, the Country
Inn just doesn't turn me on. The Ramada Inn at I-24 in Murfreesboro at least
has a waffle iron for their 'free' breakfast.
How many wives are coming? Mine is not partial to how to build an airplane
sessions, and doesn't fly with me. She's not into Walking Horses either.
Other entertainment at SYI is limited.
The Beech Staggerwing museum in Tullahoma is newly expanded, and I hear very
good. They did have an aircraft parking ramp, but I don't know about now.
Afternoon excursion? Its only a 10 min flight.
I heard there is a new Swift Museum somewhere in the area. Anybody know
about that one?
Is there going to be a decent band at Bell Buckle?
Should I bring/wear my speedo? How about my Hank Williams collection?
_____
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new
<http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
- 270.6.21/1670 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 12:50 PM
Message 16
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| Subject: | Homecoming Logistics |
Great news Bear! Best of luck with your build!
From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n5pb@aol.com
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Homecoming Logistics
Hey Buz,
Started my build today! They got me working pretty hard. I'm just now
cought up with my log and pics for day 1. It will be great to see you on
thursday.
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM
Sent: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:31 am
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Homecoming Logistics
In a message dated 9/13/2008 9:42:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
EAFerguson@aol.com writes:
I prefer staying in Murfreesboro instead of Shelbyville. Its a little
further, but the rates and accommodations are better. Sorry Buz, the Country
Inn just doesn't turn me on. The Ramada Inn at I-24 in Murfreesboro at least
has a waffle iron for their 'free' breakfast.
Earl.
Probably a good choice for several reasons. Even though the Country
Hearth is only minutes away from SYI, the "special rate" has gone up
recently (around 63 per night now instead of 55) and the room "neatness" has
varied on my last several trips there. They always take care of any
problems I mention, but there should be no problems when a guest arrives.
So your choice to stay further north is understandable.
I plan to fly out, but my current plan is to arrive this Thursday
(weather permitting) and thus be there for a week and a half. Will be
helping them around the hangar as required and doing some more performance
testing on the new wing tips and any other flying that needs to be done.
Looking forward to seeing everyone there.
Buz
_____
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new
<http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
_____
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<http://television.aol.com/feature/fall_tv?ncid=aoletv00050000000037> AOL's
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