---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/26/08: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:03 AM - Re: CHT (Brian Whittingham) 2. 04:15 AM - Re: CHT (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 3. 04:27 AM - Flying the new tips (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 4. 05:05 AM - Re: Lightning Fly-In is just around the corner (Kayberg@aol.com) 5. 05:08 AM - Re: Flying the new tips (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 6. 05:16 AM - SYI Fly-in (EAFerguson@AOL.COM) 7. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: CHT (flylightning) 8. 06:46 AM - Re: Flying the new tips (flylightning) 9. 06:47 AM - Re: Flying the new tips (flylightning) 10. 06:54 AM - Re: Lightning Fly-In is just around the corner (flylightning) 11. 08:32 AM - Re: Flying the new tips (Wayne Lenox) 12. 09:03 AM - Re: Flying the new tips (flylightning) 13. 02:47 PM - have a great time! (Jim Langley) 14. 04:52 PM - Re: have a great time! (IFLYSMODEL@AOL.COM) 15. 06:18 PM - Lightning Homecoming (Pete Krotje) 16. 07:19 PM - Re: Flying the new tips (N1BZRich@aol.com) 17. 08:02 PM - Re: Flying the new tips (Brian Whittingham) 18. 08:21 PM - Re: Lightning Homecoming (Jim Langley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:14 AM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: CHT Anthony=2C With those numbers you definately need to find a way to enrichen the mixt ure. When you apply carb heat you are making the engine run richer so that 's a further indication. Nick might be able to provide you some tips if yo u're having troubles. Brian W. From: catalpaaviation@wideband.net.auTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubjec t: RE: Lightning-List: CHTDate: Fri=2C 26 Sep 2008 14:29:10 +1000 Have tried bigger jets to no avail=3B have lifted the floats as high as I c an for next flight=2C if it improves will go to larger jets. Numbers are u p to 1500F in cruise (2950rpm) I have 285 needle and 255 main in at the moment=2C tried 290 needle and 280 main=2C only ran well with carby heat on no matter what jets were fitted. Beats me! Anthony -----Original Message-----From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whitti nghamSent: Friday=2C 26 September 2008 9:03 AMTo: lightning-list@matronics. comSubject: RE: Lightning-List: CHT What Wayne said=2C your engine is running too lean and needs a bigger jet. You'll see your EGT's drop a lot with a little adjustment. Just curious =2C what numbers are you seeing? From: waynelenox@juno.comDate: Thu=2C 25 Sep 2008 22:40:46 +0000To: lightni ng-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Lightning-List: CHTAnthonyADD more fuel ( bigger jets in carb)Wayne LN2483G-- "Catalpa aviation" wrote: Hullo Pete=2C my CHT are between 240 and 330 F=2C however my EGT is VERY hi gh and I am working on them. To answer your question=2C first place the =93v=94 plates below=2C I have also made glass ramps to the inlets to get a better air flow=2C last week I also did the sump mode and that made my oi l temp acceptable=2C now if I could just get the EGT=92s down Anthony Morrison kit 32 -----Original Message-----From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ryan grossSe nt: Thursday=2C 25 September 2008 10:32 PMTo: lightning-list@matronics.comS ubject: Re: Lightning-List: CHT Pete=2C It is not advised to do much taxi testing or ground run ups with your new J abiru engine. I have installed more than 20 jabiru engines and have found t hat within the first few hours the engine is very vulnerable. At Green Land ings in the first days of taxi testing we can only get about 2 to 3 runs do wn the runway without getting the temperature to hot. If i see the temps ri sing quickly i will shut down the engine and allow it to cool for an hour o r so. Remember heat will build even after the engine is shut off. Also neve r run the engine on an open cowled system. This will also have the cylinder hot in mins. The best thing to do is find out if your aircraft is stable a t just above take off speed and head to the sky. After the climb the engine will cool in level flight. Once you have about 10-15 hours and change your oil at around 25 you will s ee very noticeable temp differences. After the break in period you will be able to run your Jabiru engine on the ground without any problems. Another thing never try to allow your engine to exceed 380=2C 390 is max. Have faith=2C I just needs to break in!! Ryan GrossGreen Landings Flight Center=2C IncSkyRanger AircraftArion Lightn ing304-754-6010 -----Original Message-----From: "Peter and Jan Disher" To: Date: Thu=2C 25 Sep 2008 16:46:29 +1000 Subject: Lightning-List: CHT To all=2C Could someone please help me with some options. While holding the aircraft into a breeze about 10mph and also taxing my CHT s are 1-327=2C 2-330=2C 3-368=2C 4-360=2C 5-427=2C 6-372 F How can I reduce the temperature on No 5 @ 427F ? I have switched the probe from another cylinder and probes are OK. I also have the cowlings top and bottom fitted. I have the V plates on top of the cylinders=2C should they be underneath th e cylinders=2C would this help? Would welcome any ideas=2C anyone. I'm loosing faith in this JABIRU engine. Many thanks=2C Pete Disher VH-PDI Kit 30 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhttp://forums.matronics .comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution - The Lightning-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle=2C List Admin. --> http://www.ma tronics.com/contribution ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightnin g-Listtronics.comwww.matronics.com/contribution ____________________________________________________________ Save on Intern et Security Hardware and Software - Click here. st" target=_blank>http:/ /www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listttp://forums.matronics.com=_bl ank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn =9310 hidden secrets=94 from Jamie . Learn Now - The Lightning-List Email Forum - --> http://www .matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUM S - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web S ite - Thank you for your generous support! -M att Dralle=2C List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part of your life. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:05 AM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: CHT Anthony, Are you flying your "jet" with the gear leg fairings and wheel pants on? How "clean" the airframe is will made a difference on how hard the engine has to work. Any carb jet changing should probably be done after you have the airframe cleaned up and proped like you expect the final aircraft configuration to be. I am expecting to have to re-jet when I start using the 62 - 60 pitch prop we are waiting on. Blue Skies, Buz **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:50 AM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips Wayne (and Doug), Since you have completed phase 1 testing on N123WL, can you share some test data with us so we can compare what we got on the demo (and prototype). What numbers did you come up with for Vx, Vy, and Vbg (clean and with 30 degrees of flaps)? Also, Doug if you could get your customer to share the same data it would help the overall effort. The above numbers are what I have been working on for the past week or so. I hope to have them graphed out soon for the performance section of the demo's flight manual. I am guessing that so far only about six people have flown the new tips. Nick, Katie and me here at SYI, Wayne, and probably Ryan and the Green Landing's customer. Nick, Katie and I all like them and the performance improvements they provide. The only down side that I can see is that it takes up slightly more room in your hangar. Blue Skies, Buz **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:10 AM PST US From: Kayberg@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Fly-In is just around the corner In a message dated 9/26/2008 12:14:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich@aol.com writes: I must say I am surprised at Doug's comments above and Wayne's agreeing that everything he said was true. You guys are trying to land the new wing tip extension Lightning too fast. In fact Doug states that it will "float" with any excess airspeed. Heck, any airplane will float with excess airspeed - that is what excess means - too much. The amount of float depends on two basic things - how excessively fast you are and how "slick" an airplane is will effect energy bleed off. I have no idea what you mean by them dramatically changing the landing angle, but they stall at exactly the same angle of attack as the short wing Lightning. They both have the same airfoil. I think we all learned that in Aero 101. Perhaps this will help. If you pull the power of on a Piper Tripacer and pull on the flaps, it will come down out of the sky like a greasy brick. With the same engine as a Cessna 172, they are nearly equal in top speed and useful load. It is very hard to over shoot a runway in a Tripacer. You can also land over trees easily. The angle it follows to the ground without power is steep. A 172 will also descend at the same speed but a shallower angle. You have a bit of float before touchdown. The difference, of course, is the airfoil and wing length....along with drag. With a short wing Lightning, when you pulled the power off and dropped all the flaps when you were committed to the landing, it had a kinda steep angle and touched down quickly. The long wing wont do that. It just doesn't bleed off airspeed. Now I understand that the two most experienced pilots we have flying the Lightning may not be doing it right. They will be spanked and sent to bed without their supper. They will be forced to memorize everthing that Nick and Buzz have said. They will have to do 500 landings before they can give their opinion. BUT there is one other factor. The new wing tips are not easy to get on straight. It may be possible to twist them slightly adding washin or washout to the wing. The other complaint is that the stall is actually HIGHER than before. In my mind it is quite possible that the plane Nick and Buz is flying is not rigged the same as ours. So we could be talking two very different handling planes. We shall see. Doug Koenigsberg **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:25 AM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips In a message dated 9/26/2008 7:28:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich@AOL.COM writes: Wayne (and Doug), Since you have completed phase 1 testing on N123WL, can you share some test data with us so we can compare what we got on the demo (and prototype). What numbers did you come up with for Vx, Vy, and Vbg (clean and with 30 degrees of flaps)? Also, Doug if you could get your customer to share the same data it would help the overall effort. The above numbers are what I have been working on for the past week or so. I hope to have them graphed out soon for the performance section of the demo's flight manual. I am guessing that so far only about six people have flown the new tips. Nick, Katie and me here at SYI, Wayne, and probably Ryan and the Green Landing's customer. Nick, Katie and I all like them and the performance improvements they provide. The only down side that I can see is that it takes up slightly more room in your hangar. Blue Skies, Buz Dont have test data....for several reasons. Ryan can get you that as more time progresses. We just dont have many hours on the new tips, the observations are preliminary. doug **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:08 AM PST US From: EAFerguson@AOL.COM Subject: Lightning-List: SYI Fly-in Since I'm running a meeting today at lunch, I won't be at the airport until 2 pm Eastern with 1+30 enroute, I hope to arrive at SYI around 3 Central. Bringing Hank WIlliams CDs. N17EF and I are looking forward to coming home! Earl Ferguson Atlanta **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:01 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: RE: Lightning-List: CHT Anthony, Normally in a lightning equipped with fairings and a prop which will turn 2700 on takeoff roll you will get also about 3200 WOT in level than you can expect to use a 245-250 main and a 276-178 needle jet. Most every one over here needs that jetting, the ones that don't usually do not have fairings or a significantly different prop load. Send me some number to help. I would like to see RPM after brake release and 5sec roll. Than RPM @ a 100mph climb ( 90knts) @ WOT. Also EGTs at these points. Than 2850 Cruise and EGTS, and WOT achieved straight and level. This will help determine proper tuning. Nick Otterback Arion Aircraft, LLC _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catalpa aviation Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:29 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: Lightning-List: CHT Have tried bigger jets to no avail; have lifted the floats as high as I can for next flight, if it improves will go to larger jets. Numbers are up to 1500F in cruise (2950rpm) I have 285 needle and 255 main in at the moment, tried 290 needle and 280 main, only ran well with carby heat on no matter what jets were fitted. Beats me! Anthony -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham Sent: Friday, 26 September 2008 9:03 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: CHT What Wayne said, your engine is running too lean and needs a bigger jet. You'll see your EGT's drop a lot with a little adjustment. Just curious, what numbers are you seeing? _____ From: waynelenox@juno.com Subject: RE: Lightning-List: CHT Anthony ADD more fuel (bigger jets in carb) Wayne L N2483G -- "Catalpa aviation" wrote: Hullo Pete, my CHT are between 240 and 330 F, however my EGT is VERY high and I am working on them. To answer your question, first place the "v" plates below, I have also made glass ramps to the inlets to get a better air flow, last week I also did the sump mode and that made my oil temp acceptable, now if I could just get the EGT's down Anthony Morrison kit 32 -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ryan gross Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2008 10:32 PM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: CHT Pete, It is not advised to do much taxi testing or ground run ups with your new Jabiru engine. I have installed more than 20 jabiru engines and have found that within the first few hours the engine is very vulnerable. At Green Landings in the first days of taxi testing we can only get about 2 to 3 runs down the runway without getting the temperature to hot. If i see the temps rising quickly i will shut down the engine and allow it to cool for an hour or so. Remember heat will build even after the engine is shut off. Also never run the engine on an open cowled system. This will also have the cylinder hot in mins. The best thing to do is find out if your aircraft is stable at just above take off speed and head to the sky. After the climb the engine will cool in level flight. Once you have about 10-15 hours and change your oil at around 25 you will see very noticeable temp differences. After the break in period you will be able to run your Jabiru engine on the ground without any problems. Another thing never try to allow your engine to exceed 380, 390 is max. Have faith, I just needs to break in!! Ryan Gross Green Landings Flight Center, Inc SkyRanger Aircraft Arion Lightning 304-754-6010 -----Original Message----- From: "Peter and Jan Disher" Subject: Lightning-List: CHT To all, Could someone please help me with some options. While holding the aircraft into a breeze about 10mph and also taxing my CHTs are 1-327, 2-330, 3-368, 4-360, 5-427, 6-372 F How can I reduce the temperature on No 5 @ 427F ? I have switched the probe from another cylinder and probes are OK. I also have the cowlings top and bottom fitted. I have the V plates on top of the cylinders, should they be underneath the cylinders, would this help? Would welcome any ideas, anyone. I'm loosing faith in this JABIRU engine. Many thanks, Pete Disher VH-PDI Kit 30 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution - The Lightning-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List tronics.com www.matronics.com/contribution ____________________________________________________________ Save on Internet Security Hardware and Software - Click here. st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. Learn Now - The Lightning-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:22 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg@aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:08 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips In a message dated 9/26/2008 7:28:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich@AOL.COM writes: Wayne (and Doug), Since you have completed phase 1 testing on N123WL, can you share some test data with us so we can compare what we got on the demo (and prototype). What numbers did you come up with for Vx, Vy, and Vbg (clean and with 30 degrees of flaps)? Also, Doug if you could get your customer to share the same data it would help the overall effort. The above numbers are what I have been working on for the past week or so. I hope to have them graphed out soon for the performance section of the demo's flight manual. I am guessing that so far only about six people have flown the new tips. Nick, Katie and me here at SYI, Wayne, and probably Ryan and the Green Landing's customer. Nick, Katie and I all like them and the performance improvements they provide. The only down side that I can see is that it takes up slightly more room in your hangar. Blue Skies, Buz Dont have test data....for several reasons. Ryan can get you that as more time progresses. We just dont have many hours on the new tips, the observations are preliminary. doug _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check p://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001> out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:49 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips Preliminary observation that with time and testing will show good results? Nick _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg@aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:08 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips In a message dated 9/26/2008 7:28:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich@AOL.COM writes: Wayne (and Doug), Since you have completed phase 1 testing on N123WL, can you share some test data with us so we can compare what we got on the demo (and prototype). What numbers did you come up with for Vx, Vy, and Vbg (clean and with 30 degrees of flaps)? Also, Doug if you could get your customer to share the same data it would help the overall effort. The above numbers are what I have been working on for the past week or so. I hope to have them graphed out soon for the performance section of the demo's flight manual. I am guessing that so far only about six people have flown the new tips. Nick, Katie and me here at SYI, Wayne, and probably Ryan and the Green Landing's customer. Nick, Katie and I all like them and the performance improvements they provide. The only down side that I can see is that it takes up slightly more room in your hangar. Blue Skies, Buz Dont have test data....for several reasons. Ryan can get you that as more time progresses. We just dont have many hours on the new tips, the observations are preliminary. doug _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check p://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001> out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:41 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Fly-In is just around the corner As far as wash out or set is concerned. Yes I have noticed that the right tip is not a perfect fit and we will work on the mold. But if your AOI of the wings is correct when built , than with flaps retracted and ailerons rigged level with those, you should be assured that when lining the tips up to the trailing edge they should have no washout or other wise in them. As far as the stall speed I can tell you that it is lower. We are doing very much testing with some really neat equipment for the SLSA certification. AOA is the same at stall, Actual clean stall is 5-6mph slower. No memorization needed the book will be out soon. Nick _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg@aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:05 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning Fly-In is just around the corner In a message dated 9/26/2008 12:14:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich@aol.com writes: I must say I am surprised at Doug's comments above and Wayne's agreeing that everything he said was true. You guys are trying to land the new wing tip extension Lightning too fast. In fact Doug states that it will "float" with any excess airspeed. Heck, any airplane will float with excess airspeed - that is what excess means - too much. The amount of float depends on two basic things - how excessively fast you are and how "slick" an airplane is will effect energy bleed off. I have no idea what you mean by them dramatically changing the landing angle, but they stall at exactly the same angle of attack as the short wing Lightning. They both have the same airfoil. I think we all learned that in Aero 101. Perhaps this will help. If you pull the power of on a Piper Tripacer and pull on the flaps, it will come down out of the sky like a greasy brick. With the same engine as a Cessna 172, they are nearly equal in top speed and useful load. It is very hard to over shoot a runway in a Tripacer. You can also land over trees easily. The angle it follows to the ground without power is steep. A 172 will also descend at the same speed but a shallower angle. You have a bit of float before touchdown. The difference, of course, is the airfoil and wing length....along with drag. With a short wing Lightning, when you pulled the power off and dropped all the flaps when you were committed to the landing, it had a kinda steep angle and touched down quickly. The long wing wont do that. It just doesn't bleed off airspeed. Now I understand that the two most experienced pilots we have flying the Lightning may not be doing it right. They will be spanked and sent to bed without their supper. They will be forced to memorize everthing that Nick and Buzz have said. They will have to do 500 landings before they can give their opinion. BUT there is one other factor. The new wing tips are not easy to get on straight. It may be possible to twist them slightly adding washin or washout to the wing. The other complaint is that the stall is actually HIGHER than before. In my mind it is quite possible that the plane Nick and Buz is flying is not rigged the same as ours. So we could be talking two very different handling planes. We shall see. Doug Koenigsberg _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check p://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001> out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:54 AM PST US From: "Wayne Lenox" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips Rotate Vr 50 Normal Climb Out Vclmb 75-85 Best angle climb (Sea Level) Vx 65 Best rate climb (Sea Level) Vy 100 Maneuvering Va 124 Flaps 10=B0 -40=B0 Vfe <87 Normal max Vno 138 Never exceed Vne 208 Stall (clean) Vs 49 Stall (land) Flaps 30=B0 Vso 41 Final Approach Flaps 30=B0 60 No flaps 70 Max Glide 75 This is the chart that I made up for N123WL. However I have found it e aser to use 40=B0 flaps and 55 MPH short final approach speed for landin g. Your speeds may very!! Wayne N123WL From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning- list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg@aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:08 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips In a message dated 9/26/2008 7:28:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRic h@AOL.COM writes: Wayne (and Doug), Since you have completed phase 1 testing on N123WL, can you share so me test data with us so we can compare what we got on the demo (and prot otype). What numbers did you come up with for Vx, Vy, and Vbg (clean an d with 30 degrees of flaps)? Also, Doug if you could get your customer to share the same data it would help the overall effort. The above numb ers are what I have been working on for the past week or so. I hope to have them graphed out soon for the performance section of the demo's fli ght manual. I am guessing that so far only about six people have flown the new t ips. Nick, Katie and me here at SYI, Wayne, and probably Ryan and the G reen Landing's customer. Nick, Katie and I all like them and the perfor mance improvements they provide. The only down side that I can see is t hat it takes up slightly more room in your hangar. Blue Skies, Buz Dont have test data....for several reasons. Ryan can get you that as more time progresses. We just dont have many hours on the new tips, the observations are preli minary. doug Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Che ck out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculato rs. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com" >http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contributio ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== =============== ____________________________________________________________ Click to become a master chef, own a restaurant and make millions. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m4pDOJLrnNacSjxO0hvDi dxjpfs9UhcKHbJ6qeNB4LTM2Wn/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:16 AM PST US From: "flylightning" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips Great numbers wayne, just the info we need to see. They look right in line with what we are seeing. I think weather permitting Mark and your bird our going to make and appearance at the open house on Saturday? nick _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Lenox Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:30 AM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips Rotate Vr 50 Normal Climb Out Vclmb 75-85 Best angle climb (Sea Level) Vx 65 Best rate climb (Sea Level) Vy 100 Maneuvering Va 124 Flaps 10* -40* Vfe <87 Normal max Vno 138 Never exceed Vne 208 Stall (clean) Vs 49 Stall (land) Flaps 30* Vso 41 Final Approach Flaps 30* 60 No flaps 70 Max Glide 75 This is the chart that I made up for N123WL. However I have found it easer to use 40* flaps and 55 MPH short final approach speed for landing. Your speeds may very!! Wayne N123WL _____ From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg@aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:08 AM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips In a message dated 9/26/2008 7:28:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich@AOL.COM writes: Wayne (and Doug), Since you have completed phase 1 testing on N123WL, can you share some test data with us so we can compare what we got on the demo (and prototype). What numbers did you come up with for Vx, Vy, and Vbg (clean and with 30 degrees of flaps)? Also, Doug if you could get your customer to share the same data it would help the overall effort. The above numbers are what I have been working on for the past week or so. I hope to have them graphed out soon for the performance section of the demo's flight manual. I am guessing that so far only about six people have flown the new tips. Nick, Katie and me here at SYI, Wayne, and probably Ryan and the Green Landing's customer. Nick, Katie and I all like them and the performance improvements they provide. The only down side that I can see is that it takes up slightly more room in your hangar. Blue Skies, Buz Dont have test data....for several reasons. Ryan can get you that as more time progresses. We just dont have many hours on the new tips, the observations are preliminary. doug _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Lightning-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =================================== ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List =================================== tronics.com =================================== www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ____________________________________________________________ Click to become a master chef, own a restaurant and make millions. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:12 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Lightning-List: have a great time! Hey all you Lightning owners at the fly-in. Have a great time, while you're down there! Sorry I can't make it, but there's no way I'm missing the event next year. Till then. Jim! ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:58 PM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: have a great time! I Agree Jim, By a quirk of fate, my Lightning (N13LN) is there to watch ove r the festivities, but I can not make it. Hey Buz, did you get a chance to tr y my Jet? Lynn Nelsen In a message dated 9/26/2008 5:47:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pequeajim@gmail.com writes: Hey all you Lightning owners at the fly-in. Have a great time, while you =99re down there! Sorry I can=99t make it, but there=99s no way I=99m missin g the event next year. Till then Jim! (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips a nd calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:19 PM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning Homecoming Lightnings in the hangar ready for the fly in. Attending so far are Earl Ferguson, Jim Goad, Dick Cleavinger, the Arion prototyle and demo, Lynn Nelson's Lightning, Buz' Esqual, Linda & Joe Mathias - all are in the hangar. Pete ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:07 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips In a message dated 9/26/2008 12:04:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, info@flylightning.net writes: They look right in line with what we are seeing. Wayne, Actually your Vx may be a typo (65) as we are getting a Vx of 87 after many timed climbs of one minute. When we graph out the numbers Vx is definitely 87. Vy is more like 93 instead of the 100 you are using and the best glide speed clean graphs out to 85, and 75 is best glide with 30 degree flaps. Buz **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:18 PM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips I got a Vs of about 51 KCAS at max gross=2C and 36 KCAS for Vso=2C I also had around 72 KCAS for Vx and Vy of about 80 KCAS. I get about 75 KCAS for best glide clean. This was on the old white and yellow demo. If Buz is t alking MPH then I think that we're spot on. I did tests at many airspeeds and altitudes=2C but I wished that I had've done more at even slower speeds . Brian W. From: N1BZRich@aol.comDate: Fri=2C 26 Sep 2008 22:18:40 -0400Subject: Re: L ightning-List: Flying the new tipsTo: lightning-list@matronics.com In a message dated 9/26/2008 12:04:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time=2C info@fl ylightning.net writes: They look right in line with what we are seeing. Wayne=2C Actually your Vx may be a typo (65) as we are getting a Vx of 87 after many timed climbs of one minute. When we graph out the numbers Vx is defin itely 87. Vy is more like 93 instead of the 100 you are using and the best glide speed clean graphs out to 85=2C and 75 is best glide with 30 degree flaps. Buz Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information=2C tips and calculators. _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5 50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:57 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning Homecoming Wow! That's awesome Pete! From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Krotje Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 9:17 PM Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning Homecoming Lightnings in the hangar ready for the fly in. Attending so far are Earl Ferguson, Jim Goad, Dick Cleavinger, the Arion prototyle and demo, Lynn Nelson's Lightning, Buz' Esqual, Linda & Joe Mathias - all are in the hangar. 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