Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: Lightning trim tabs#2 (tlhuffy@AOL.COM)
2. 09:47 AM - Re: Lightning Fly-In is just around the corner (N1BZRich@aol.com)
3. 10:02 AM - Re: Lightning Fly-In is just around the corner (N1BZRich@aol.com)
4. 10:21 AM - Re: Lightning Fly-In is just around the corner (Brian Whittingham)
5. 10:44 AM - Second annual Lightning fly-in (N1BZRich@aol.com)
6. 12:17 PM - Annual Gathering (EAFerguson@aol.com)
7. 12:47 PM - Data protocol (EAFerguson@AOL.COM)
8. 01:39 PM - Re: Lightning Fly-In is just around the corner (Kayberg@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning trim tabs#2 |
both up and down
-----Original Message-----
From: jhausch <jhausch@charter.net>
Sent: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 8:23 am
Subject: Lightning-List: Re: Lightning trim tabs#2
Does it only need to pivot in one direction? I can't tell if you can move it up
and down, or only up.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6421#206421
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning Fly-In is just around the corner |
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning Fly-In is just around the corner |
Doug,
Sorry to take so long to answer your last message. I will comment on
several of your thoughts:
With a short wing Lightning, when you pulled the power off and dropped all
the flaps when you were committed to the landing, it had a kinda steep angle
and touched down quickly. The long wing wont do that. It just doesn't bleed
off airspeed.
The "long wing" Lightning will do that - just at a slower airspeed. I will
bet you dollars to doughnuts that the "long wing" Lightning can get off
shorter and land shorter than the standard wing in any airfield you chose.
The new wing tips are not easy to get on straight. It may be possible to
twist them slightly adding washin or washout to the wing. The other complaint
is that the stall is actually HIGHER than before. In my mind it is quite
possible that the plane Nick and Buz is flying is not rigged the same as
ours. So we could be talking two very different handling planes.
You may have hit on something here, Doug. If you are basing your comments
on an airplane that does not have the wing tip extensions installed correctly,
then you are only talking about that one airplane, not all Lightnings with
the wing tip extensions. Both the Prototype with the tip extensions and now
the demo with the extensions and Lynn Nelsons recently completed Lightning
(with the new tips) definitely stall at a much slower speed. Because of that
they get off quicker, climb faster, actually cruise a little faster, and can
land shorter than the original Lightning wing. Of course the original
Lightning was no slouch at all of these parameters, but the new extensions just
improve all of these.
Blue Skies,
Buz
PS: A helicopter with engine failure will come down faster than a Tri Pacer
with engine failure.
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Lightning Fly-In is just around the corner |
"I will bet you dollars to doughnuts that the "long wing" Lightning can get
off shorter and land shorter than the standard wing in any airfield you ch
ose."
Huh oh=2C I feel a future fly-off coming on! Seriously though=2C that migh
t not be a bad idea at the Lightning fly-in. You can fly a million test fl
ights and have gobs of supporting data and yet people sometimes just won't
believe you until you put it out there and let them see it with their own e
yes. Brian W.
From: N1BZRich@aol.comDate: Sun=2C 28 Sep 2008 13:01:58 -0400Subject: Re: L
ightning-List: Lightning Fly-In is just around the cornerTo: lightning-list
@matronics.com
Doug=2C
Sorry to take so long to answer your last message. I will comment on s
everal of your thoughts:
With a short wing Lightning=2C when you pulled the power off and dropped al
l the flaps when you were committed to the landing=2C it had a kinda steep
angle and touched down quickly. The long wing wont do that. It just doesn
't bleed off airspeed.
The "long wing" Lightning will do that - just at a slower airspeed. I will
bet you dollars to doughnuts that the "long wing" Lightning can get off sh
orter and land shorter than the standard wing in any airfield you chose.
The new wing tips are not easy to get on straight. It may be possible to t
wist them slightly adding washin or washout to the wing. The other compla
int is that the stall is actually HIGHER than before. In my mind it is
quite possible that the plane Nick and Buz is flying is not rigged the same
as ours. So we could be talking two very different handling planes.
You may have hit on something here=2C Doug. If you are basing your comment
s on an airplane that does not have the wing tip extensions installed corre
ctly=2C then you are only talking about that one airplane=2C not all Lightn
ings with the wing tip extensions. Both the Prototype with the tip extensi
ons and now the demo with the extensions and Lynn Nelsons recently complete
d Lightning (with the new tips) definitely stall at a much slower speed. B
ecause of that they get off quicker=2C climb faster=2C actually cruise a li
ttle faster=2C and can land shorter than the original Lightning wing. Of c
ourse the original Lightning was no slouch at all of these parameters=2C bu
t the new extensions just improve all of these.
Blue Skies=2C
Buz
PS: A helicopter with engine failure will come down faster than a Tri Pace
r with engine failure.
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial chall0686/aol?redi
r=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" href=http://ww
w.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" target="_blank">Check out W
alletPop for the latest news and information=2C tips and calculators.
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part
of your life.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Second annual Lightning fly-in |
All,
Just a short note to let all Lightning listers know what a great time
everyone seemed to have at the Lightning fly-in. I guess I should say
Lightning / Esqual fly-in as Nick says it is for both types and I certainly agree
with him that both aircraft types are closely tied together in their history
with the SYI group both now and when they were in Wisconsin.
Pete & Barb, Nick & Dana, Mark & Claire, and all the Lightning team did
a wonderful job of making us all feel welcome and provided outstanding
hospitality. Besides the fun hangar talk and "BS" sessions, we had some great
flying which included demo flights, fly bys, and a Lightning formation photo
mission. Katie, the newest member of the Lightning team, was the formation
flight lead, with Nick on the left wing and Dick Clevenger and Buz on the right
wing. Ben was the photo "mission commander" and flew his Rans as the photo
ship with Dana as the photographer. We will have to see how all the photos came
out.
Dick Clevenger flew his Lightning from Colorado so he gets the prize for
flying the longest distance. John from California actually came the longest
distance, but he utilized the airlines. I took John for a demo flight and
he certainly seemed to have a fun flight. Jim Goad flew up from Florida,
"World Record Earl" flew up from Atlanta and Joe and Linda Mathias flew in from
Virginia as did I. Earl won the contest for the most colorful socks, Jim won
hands down for the "cutest" negligee, and Joe won the contest for who can
seem the most interested in raising goats. Craig Sumner was up from Alabama
(his Esqual is now in phase 1 testing), and Charles Gallagher was down from
Nashville (he will be writing an article on the Jabiru engine seminar for the
newsletter). All total we had seven flying Lightnings there (including Lynn
Nelson's which Katie will be flying down to Lynn this coming week) which
represents about 25% of flying Lightnings world wide. Not too bad.
Start your planning now to attend next year. I guarantee you will have
a great time.
Blue Skies,
Buz
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| Subject: | Annual Gathering |
A great time was had by all. Our thanks to Pete and all the others for a
great event. I'm looking forward to next year and hoping the crowd will be so
big that we'll have to look for additional space. Pete also had an open house on
Saturday, and several new folks came by. We even had a visitor from
Sacramento, CA who came for the event.
Back to Atlanta in 1+33 Sunday morning. Some detours because of solid grown
fog, but otherwise uneventful.
My GPS does work OK, apparently I was parked too close to the hanger when I
reported it inop.
Ho hum, back to everyday life.
Earl
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With the new wing tips and a bunch of data being reported, I see potential,
but avoidable confusion.
We now have two wings flying both as Light Sport and conventional. Further,
while most are reporting data in MPH, some (including me) prefer/use Knots.
Then there is always true vs indicated airspeed.
Here is what I suggest:
Identify the data type in the text, not just in the subject line. Reason:
Some may copy data from the e-mail and the subject line with this data will be
lost. You can still use the subject line for data type, but put it in the
text too.
When reporting data, always include wind tip type. Also if LSA, please so
indicate.
WRT MPH vs Knots I suggest adding a statement like "All speed data in MPH"
or provide both; i.e. Speed in MPH followed by knots in parenthesis. Frankly I
prefer the second option, but I know I'm in the minority in preferring
Knots.
Indicated vs true airspeeds. Please indicate which. you are reporting.
I'm not claiming that this has been a problem, just trying to prevent
confusion.
Earl Ferguson
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning Fly-In is just around the corner |
Thanks for your comments, Buz, but I am at the mercy of hearsay and some
observations.
The plane that is the major source of our experience also has prop problems,
so there is also a dispute about thrust on takeoff. The pilot claims that
it does NOT get off quicker that it formerly did and also claims that it
stalls higher. There is no question it takes a lot more runway than the local
Esqual and lands significantly longer.....in the hands to two different pilots.
I am just saying that if you increase wing length but do not increase drag,
you will have a lot more lift. That is obvious. You are saying that if you
decrease speed, you should have the same angle of descent as before. But I
wonder if there is more to it.....raising the question of tip installation
and possible differences in aerodynamics.
I have not had the opportunity to fly it since I am not on his insurance.
Perhaps we should suspend this thread until we simply get more flying done
with this plane and also the next one in line.
Or maybe you want to stop at Green Landings and fly it!!
Doug
In a message dated 9/28/2008 1:03:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
N1BZRich@aol.com writes:
Doug,
Sorry to take so long to answer your last message. I will comment on
several of your thoughts:
With a short wing Lightning, when you pulled the power off and dropped all
the flaps when you were committed to the landing, it had a kinda steep angle
and touched down quickly. The long wing wont do that. It just doesn't bleed
off airspeed.
The "long wing" Lightning will do that - just at a slower airspeed. I will
bet you dollars to doughnuts that the "long wing" Lightning can get off
shorter and land shorter than the standard wing in any airfield you chose.
The new wing tips are not easy to get on straight. It may be possible to
twist them slightly adding washin or washout to the wing. The other complaint
is that the stall is actually HIGHER than before. In my mind it is quite
possible that the plane Nick and Buz is flying is not rigged the same as
ours. So we could be talking two very different handling planes.
You may have hit on something here, Doug. If you are basing your comments
on an airplane that does not have the wing tip extensions installed correctly,
then you are only talking about that one airplane, not all Lightnings with
the wing tip extensions. Both the Prototype with the tip extensions and now
the demo with the extensions and Lynn Nelsons recently completed Lightning
(with the new tips) definitely stall at a much slower speed. Because of that
they get off quicker, climb faster, actually cruise a little faster, and can
land shorter than the original Lightning wing. Of course the original
Lightning was no slouch at all of these parameters, but the new extensions just
improve all of these.
Blue Skies,
Buz
PS: A helicopter with engine failure will come down faster than a Tri Pacer
with engine failure.
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
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