---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/29/08: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:47 AM - Next checkride requirement (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 2. 11:02 AM - Re: Next checkride requirement (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 3. 01:39 PM - Re: Next checkride requirement (EAFerguson@AOL.COM) 4. 01:49 PM - Re: Next checkride requirement (Mark Stauffer) 5. 01:53 PM - Re: Next checkride requirement (Jim Langley) 6. 03:02 PM - Re: Next checkride requirement (Brian Whittingham) 7. 05:13 PM - Re: Next checkride requirement (Wayne Lenox) 8. 05:25 PM - Re: Next checkride requirement (Jim Langley) 9. 07:11 PM - Re: Next checkride requirement (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 10. 07:21 PM - Re: Next checkride requirement (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) 11. 07:50 PM - More info on amazing wing loss landing (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:47:48 AM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Lightning-List: Next checkride requirement All, It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next check ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared. Blue skies, Buz _http://www.chilloutzone.de/files/08102703.html_ (http://www.chilloutzone.de/files/08102703.html) **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:13 AM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Next checkride requirement In a message dated 10/29/2008 1:48:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich@aol.com writes: All, It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next check ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared. Blue skies, Buz _http://www.chilloutzone.de/files/08102703.html_ (http://www.chilloutzone.de/files/08102703.html) Buz, We will look forward to your flight testing of the maneuver in the Factory Demo..... You experienced types should set the pace. After watching this, I needed clean underwear. (or at least cleanER underwear) Doug Koenigsberg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:44 PM PST US From: EAFerguson@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Next checkride requirement In a message dated 10/29/2008 1:48:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich@aol.com writes: All, It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next check ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared. Blue skies, Buz Buz, I watched, but I don't believe. Clean break at the wing, no trailing wires or parts. No close up of the joint after the landing. Would you have stayed with this bird? Surely he had a chute! Earl **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:31 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Next checkride requirement I think it's a clever use of movie editing tools. I'm pretty certain it's a model and they edited in the last 3-4 seconds of the actual full size aircraft. Just my thoughts..... At least it wasn't a video of a Zenith 601XL!! Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of EAFerguson@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:39 PM To: lightning-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Next checkride requirement In a message dated 10/29/2008 1:48:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich@aol.com writes: All, It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next check ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared. Blue skies, Buz Buz, I watched, but I don't believe. Clean break at the wing, no trailing wires or parts. No close up of the joint after the landing. Would you have stayed with this bird? Surely he had a chute! Earl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:48 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Next checkride requirement One of the IMAC meets (Radio control), that I flew in about 3-4 years ago had this type of accident with the same result. We were all flying 35-45% aircraft and a guy lost a wing just like this. He saved it in the same way. Made me thing that this was RC with some really good video editing...? On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 4:39 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 10/29/2008 1:48:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > N1BZRich@aol.com writes: > > All, > It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the > video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next check > ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared. > Blue skies, > Buz > > Buz, > > I watched, but I don't believe. Clean break at the wing, no trailing wires > or parts. No close up of the joint after the landing. > > Would you have stayed with this bird? Surely he had a chute! > > Earl > > > ------------------------------ > Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel > Deals! > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:36 PM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Next checkride requirement It's no coincidence that right during the time of touchdown that the aircra ft goes out of focus and even at that seems to "jump" unnaturally. This is an imaginative mind with bad video editing. Having said that=2C I remember in AOPA magazine a few years ago in the back =2C the question section=2C there was a true or false about a guy landing w ith one wing. I don't remember the guys name=2C but I wish I could find th e story again. I do remember he was up after the plane come out of mainten ance and he was flying an aerobatic plane. As he didn't plane on doing any aerobatics he didn't wear a chute. He heard a popping noise and looked ov er at his wing which was failing upwards. At this point he rolled the airp lane inverted away from the failing wing to keep pressure on the top of the wing (relative I realize). He then proceeded inverted using only slight r udde to turn. At this point he realized he should've brought a chute and h ad time to think about what a bad situation he was in. So he got the plane down low and planned to roll the airplane upright away from the bad wing. He thought it might give him a chance to live through it. He got down low and proceeded to roll. As the wing translated its load the wing failed up ward. The plane hit hard. I think the damage was that the plane nosed ove r=2C but not on its back. So the plane was mostly ok=2C the pilot was fine . Sorry I don't have the reference for the story. Another good and common story was the Israeli F-15 that had one wing totall y missing and flew back to base and landed. That one was caught on video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_EXtBEaBbs I wouldn't exactly believe th e part where he says "MD flew out and said it wasn't possible=2C that physi cs wouldn't allow it." Other than that=2C great story. Brian W. ng-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Lightning-List: Next checkride requiremen t One of the IMAC meets (Radio control)=2C that I flew in about 3-4 years ago had this type of accident with the same result. We were all flying 35-45% aircraft and a guy lost a wing just like this. He saved it in the same wa y. Made me thing that this was RC with some really good video editing...? On Wed=2C Oct 29=2C 2008 at 4:39 PM=2C wrote: In a message dated 10/29/2008 1:48:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time=2C N1BZRic h@aol.com writes: All=2C It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next check ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared. Blue skies=2C Buz Buz=2C I watched=2C but I don't believe. Clean break at the wing=2C no trailing wi res or parts. No close up of the joint after the landing. Would you have stayed with this bird? Surely he had a chute! Earl Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deal s! _________________________________________________________________ Store=2C manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_sky drive_102008 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:29 PM PST US From: "Wayne Lenox" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Next checkride requirement OK BUZ how did he do that. Must be a test pilot!!!! Wayne -- N1BZRich@aol.com wrote: All, It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next c heck ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared.Blue ski es,Buzhttp://www.chilloutzone.de/files/08102703.html Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel D ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======= _____________________________________________________________ Love Music? Get a degree in Musical Education. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3oLWtadqEzoK0OTyhJVDIG abiNDPMfhkLve5bh16pDh07BTd/?count=1234567890 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:07 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Next checkride requirement What this RC guy did is actually a pretty common maneuver in most aerobatic competitions. Most all aerobatic RC airplanes can perform stunts like the knife edge that he used to land. What makes it possible to land in the knife edge is the extreme power to weight ratio that an RC airplane has. Maneuvers like knife edge loops, knife edge into hover are all possible with a talented pilot. He just flew it in a high alpha knife edge close to hover and then rolled it to gear down once he got close to the ground. The high alpha maneuver slows the aircraft to a crawl. Very difficult, but not at all beyond the skills of a good RC pilot. Ask Nick, I can guarantee, he flies knife edge all the time. Here is a pic of me flying a low level high alpha knife edge in a photo shoot for FLY RC magazine. That is an electric conversion of a glow model and the motor could yank the airplane out of the knife edge with very little rudder input. The airplane is actually flying with very little forward speed. If I remember correctly, my daughter caught me just before I lost my nerve and climbed away from the ground. Jim! From: owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Next checkride requirement It's no coincidence that right during the time of touchdown that the aircraft goes out of focus and even at that seems to "jump" unnaturally. This is an imaginative mind with bad video editing. Having said that, I remember in AOPA magazine a few years ago in the back, the question section, there was a true or false about a guy landing with one wing. I don't remember the guys name, but I wish I could find the story again. I do remember he was up after the plane come out of maintenance and he was flying an aerobatic plane. As he didn't plane on doing any aerobatics he didn't wear a chute. He heard a popping noise and looked over at his wing which was failing upwards. At this point he rolled the airplane inverted away from the failing wing to keep pressure on the top of the wing (relative I realize). He then proceeded inverted using only slight rudde to turn. At this point he realized he should've brought a chute and had time to think about what a bad situation he was in. So he got the plane down low and planned to roll the airplane upright away from the bad wing. He thought it might give him a chance to live through it. He got down low and proceeded to roll. As the wing translated its load the wing failed upward. The plane hit hard. I think the damage was that the plane nosed over, but not on its back. So the plane was mostly ok, the pilot was fine. Sorry I don't have the reference for the story. Another good and common story was the Israeli F-15 that had one wing totally missing and flew back to base and landed. That one was caught on video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_EXtBEaBbs I wouldn't exactly believe the part where he says "MD flew out and said it wasn't possible, that physics wouldn't allow it." Other than that, great story. Brian W. _____ From: pequeajim@gmail.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Next checkride requirement One of the IMAC meets (Radio control), that I flew in about 3-4 years ago had this type of accident with the same result. We were all flying 35-45% aircraft and a guy lost a wing just like this. He saved it in the same way. Made me thing that this was RC with some really good video editing...? On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 4:39 PM, wrote: In a message dated 10/29/2008 1:48:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich@aol.com writes: All, It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next check ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared. Blue skies, Buz Buz, I watched, but I don't believe. Clean break at the wing, no trailing wires or parts. No close up of the joint after the landing. Would you have stayed with this bird? Surely he had a chute! Earl _____ Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. Start uploading now ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:43 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Next checkride requirement Lightning list, I know many of you are convinced this is a fake video probably done by an accomplished RC pilot. I am not so sure. If you have been following the capabilities of unlimited aerobatic aircraft (full size people carrying airplanes) recently then you know that many of them can actually accomplish knife edge loops. The very powerful engines and highly responsive rudder authority would allow that type of landing at much below normal wing stall speeds. Of course it wasn't a smooth landing, more like a hard plop down, but damn, the timing was right on. Also, it looks like an airplane and course that I have seen in the Red Bull contest. Time will tell, but as I said, I kind of think it is the real thing. Below is what one of the Beechcraft list guys had to say about the video. Buz Well folks, I watched the landing VERY carefully - stop-frame carefully. I may be missing something but what I see is an extraordinary exhibition of skill and cool-headed thinking. Watch again - closely - particularly near the ending. Just prior to touchdown, while airborne at the most precarious angle imaginable, you'll see the rudder going full RIGHT to bring the nose down AND the left aileron deflecting FULL UP - meaning stick simultaneously slammed full RIGHT (totally counter-intuitive control input) to provide maximum drag on the LEFT wing; enough to roll the plane left to a nearly-level touchdown. Whereas the more instinctive control input (left stick) would have rolled the plane over on it's back - fatally, I'm sure. Remarkable outcome by any measure!!!! It's certainly understandable in this age where special effects are commonplace that such a bizarre event will draw huge skepticism. But driven mostly by the last few frames of film viewed, my sense is that this fellow survived as a true TOP GUN. **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:04 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Next checkride requirement In a message dated 10/29/2008 6:03:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dashvii@hotmail.com writes: So he got the plane down low and planned to roll the airplane upright away from the bad wing. He thought it might give him a chance to live through it. He got down low and proceeded to roll. As the wing translated its load the wing failed upward. Brain, I remember that as well - it was during the time frame when I was competing in aerobatic contest in my Pitts. I think it happened in Europe and I think the pilot may have been Neil Williams. Buz **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:51 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Lightning-List: More info on amazing wing loss landing More info. I realize some of you are still very skeptical, but here apparently is a short interview with the pilot in the video. Yes, it could be "staged" as well, but I doubt that the sponsor would want that kind of "fake" advertising. You make your final decision, but "I believe". Buz http://www.jamesandersson.com/interview.html **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! 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