---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/16/08: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:46 AM - What's My Contribution Used For? (Matt Dralle) 1. 05:08 AM - Re: IVO first flight (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 2. 05:24 AM - Re: Re: IVO first flight (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 3. 05:52 AM - Re: Re: IVO first flight (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 4. 06:20 AM - Re: Re: IVO first flight (N1BZRich@aol.com) 5. 12:41 PM - Fw: Glasair's "Two Weeks to Taxi" Gets Two Thumbs Up from FAA (Roy Schechter) 6. 01:46 PM - Nose wheel forks and axle (Colin J. Kennedy) 7. 02:40 PM - Re: Re: IVO first flight (Kayberg@AOL.COM) 8. 03:27 PM - Re: Nose wheel forks and axle (John Eynon) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:53 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Lightning-List: What's My Contribution Used For? Dear Listers, Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for 19+ years worth of online archive data available for instant random search and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums, Wiki and PhotoShare. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements these days? It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can make in your Sport... List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:04 AM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: IVO first flight In a message dated 11/14/2008 6:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dashvii@hotmail.com writes: Doug, Are there any pics of the IVO on the Lightning. Also, when converting an IVO to a two blader, do you use the same blades: profile, pitch, and chord? Brian W. No pics just yet. Need a little more time and weather. Plus, there is no spinner. It was also necessary to change the prop extension back to the stock shorter one. The IVO Medium blades are all the same. They can vary in length, the ones tested are 62". Supposedly a 68" blade will work on a Jab 3300 also. Doug ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:35 AM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: IVO first flight In a message dated 11/15/2008 2:33:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, selwyn@ellisworks.com.au writes: --> Lightning-List message posted by: "selwyn" "If you have some kind of prop strike, the IVO easily disintegrates, usually saving the engine crankshaft. Supposedly it is good for up to 150 hp and 250 mph. We shall see." Hmmm. Not sure if I like a prop that easily disintegrates as that would imply that the margins are rather fine and perhaps more likely to shed a blade in "normal" circumstances. I think I would prefer some additional protection against that instead of the possibility that I may prevent crank damage if I was silly enough to run my prop into something hard. If anyone is interested in more info I've compiled a list of links to prop makers, including IVO, here: _http://www.recreationalflying.com.au/links/propellers-4/_ (http://www.recreationalflying.com.au/links/propellers-4/) The IVO props may not be for everyone. Some people cannot deal with a prop where the tips can flex as much as 12" or perhaps more. They are also noisy. Our experience is that they outperform anything else: more thrust on takeoff and higher top speeds...at least in other applications. There are tradeoffs. They do not like rain or seaplane operations. If the hub is kept torqued correctly, they do not shed a blade under "normal circumstances" No question that a " wooden fence post" prop is less likely to shed a blade. It is also very difficult to adjust the pitch. doug ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:24 AM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: IVO first flight In a message dated 11/15/2008 7:53:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, N1BZRich@aol.com writes: Unless IVO has changed their blade design, I doubt that their props will be as efficient as the Sensenich models that have been so successful on the Lightning. The original IVO props were designed for the Rotax which of course have a "gear down transmission" to reduce prop speed. The slower turning props can use a longer diameter and narrow blades. It has been a while since I took Aero 101, but I think the best propeller tip speed for efficiency is about .75 mach. Since the Jabiru is a direct drive "airplane" engine, the prop rpm is the same as engine rpm and you have a more "normal" looking prop and blade profile that works best. Of course as everyone knows making propellers is part science and part black magic, so who really knows what will work best on a specific airframe and engine combination until you try it. So glad the Green Landing guys are trying it again. Buz I understand the theory; that the difference in prop tip speed will make the IVO less efficient. However, with a Rotax 912-s we swing a 72" three blade. The 3300 Jab has a 62" prop. Perhaps the IVO is optimised for the greater RPMs. We are talking about much thinner Kevlar blades on the IVO, rather the wooden fence post of a Senny. Even the composite blades of the ground adjust Sennsenich are much thicker than the IVO. Also the IVO blades are all the same. Not true with a wooden prop. Each prop is subject to some variation as moisture content changes. Uneven moisture retention can make for vibrations. The guru on the Tailwind site buys wooden props and then sands the profile of the tips a bit to get more speed out of them. His planes outrun higher horsepower RV's. However, he has built 10 Tailwinds from scratch and has reshaped a lot of props. It seems that everyone who buys wooden props tends to accumulate a selection of them. That gets a little pricey after while. Once you have one of them hanging on the wall of your living room and one hanging on your plane, the rest are as helpful as unused golf clubs. Additiionally, the point of the IVO in question is to have in-flight adjust. There is even a constant-speed controller if you want one. So blade profile may be less important. doug ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:14 AM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: IVO first flight In a message dated 11/16/2008 8:52:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Kayberg@AOL.COM writes: Uneven moisture retention can make for vibrations. Doug, Excellent point, and a good reminder for wooden prop users.. That is why all wooden props should always be left in the horizontal position when the airplane is parked. That way, the prop blades accumulate moisture at the same rate or amount and you do not get an out of balance blade that would indeed cause vibration on start up. Keep us informed on the IVO testing. But I am still curious as to the 175 mph speed you mentioned. Was that WOT? Blue Skies, Buz **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:45 PM PST US From: Roy Schechter Subject: Lightning-List: Fw: Glasair's "Two Weeks to Taxi" Gets Two Thumbs Up from FAA =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Forwarded Message ----=0AFrom: Harry DeLong =0ATo: Harry DeLong (E-mail) =0ASent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:56:47 PM=0ASubject: Glasair's "Two Weeks to Taxi" Gets Two Thumbs Up from FAA=0A=0A=0AIf you=92ve been h olding off on purchasing a =93Two Weeks to Taxi=94Sportsman due to the unce rtainty of it=92scompliancewith the 51% rule, your prayers have been answer ed!- The FAA recently reviewed the =93Two Weeks To Taxi=94program and fou nd that the lean manufacturing processes employed, combined with the provid ed educational assistance, accelerates the Sportsman build time significant ly without violating the spirit or intent of the 51% Rule. (See below for m ore details.)- =0A-=0APlease note that we still have a few spots availa ble with 2008 pricing in the 1st quarter of 2009 at a savings of 7%.- Cal l if you have any questions or want to get one of the few remaining slots! =0A-=0AAlso, if you haven=92t yet seen the video that Evan Farmer put tog ether of his experience building a =93Two Weeks To Taxi Sportsman=94, check it out at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmPZbfYWNT0 =0A-=0AHarry Del ong=0A_________________________=0A-=0AGlasair=92s Two Weeks to Taxi =0AGe ts Two Thumbs Up from FAA=0A-=0AArlington, WA, November 11, 2008=97 Durin g the week of November 3, 2008, members of the FAA=92s Production and Airwo rthiness Division (AIR-200) traveled to Glasair Aviation=92s facility in Ar lington, Washington to review Glasair=92s =91Two Week To Taxi=92 program in terms of whether or not such a program could comply with the =91major port ion=92 requirement of Part 21, Section 21.191(g).- The FAA=92s on-site te am found that the =93lean manufacturing=94 processes employed, combined wit h the provided educational assistance, accelerates the Sportsman build time significantly without violating the spirit or intent of Part 21, Section 2 1.191(g).- =0A-=0A=93We couldn=92t be more excited about the results of this visit by the FAA=94 says Glasair=92s CEO Mikael Via.- =93I want to sincerely thank Mr. Frank Paskiewicz, head of the FAA=92s production and ai rworthiness division, for bringing his team all the way from Washington, D. C. to take a look at the unique opportunity we=92ve developed at Glasair. =94 =0A-=0APaskiewicz and the FAA=92s Amateur-Built Rulemaking Committee have been at the center of vigorous public debate on proposed new policies for administering and enforcing the 51 percent rule for amateur-built aircr aft.=0A-=0AGlasair=92s =91Two Weeks to Taxi=92 Program had been somewhat controversial since its introduction in 2006 because it is the first progra m ever developed which allows builders access to a very organized, systemat ic course that takes them on a step by step building program that ends with their airplane taxing from the hangar under its own power.- =0A-=0A- =93We have worked very, very hard to develop a program that makes aircraft building more accessible, more organized, and as efficient as possible, whi le staying within the letter and spirit of the amateur built rule,=94 says Via.- This new finding from the FAA will allow Glasair=92s Two Weeks to T axi program to grow and expand.- =0A-=0AGlasair=92s Two Weeks to Taxi p rogram recently celebrated its 100th customer-built aircraft.=0A-=0AFor m ore information, visit the company=92s website at www.GlasairAviation.com - or call 360.435.8533 x232.-=0A-=0A-=0AHarry DeLong=0AGlasair Avia tion=0A18810 59th Ave NE=0AArlington, WA 98223=0A360-435-8533 x 232 phone =0A360-435-9525 fax=0Aharry.delong@glasairaviation.com=0Awww.glasairaviatio n.com=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:16 PM PST US From: "Colin J. Kennedy" Subject: Lightning-List: Nose wheel forks and axle Section 38 of the manual says "5.Locate the phenolic nose fork spacers (see photo below) and the AN3-26A bolts, AN960-10 washers (one washer under head and another under nut) and AN365-1032A nylocks." Even with the washer under the head removed, not enough threads protrude through to secure the nut. Should I get longer bolts or sand the phenolic spacers? The nose wheel axle bolt shank is too short to pass though both forks, such that the threaded portion is passing through the second fork. Do I need a bolt with a longer shank, or is this acceptable? By making the axle spacers the right length, I can make the wheel bearings ride on the shank. Colin K. OK Lightning # 52 under construction. http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:05 PM PST US From: Kayberg@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Re: IVO first flight In a message dated 11/16/2008 9:20:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, N1BZRich@aol.com writes: Keep us informed on the IVO testing. But I am still curious as to the 175 mph speed you mentioned. Was that WOT? As best I understood, it was WOT with the prop "bit in" , ie the blades were adjusted to give a less than 3300 rpm. Because of the shortness of the flight, the uncertainty of the airspeed indicator and limited experimentation, the number of 175 was offered. Again, this was the fastest the bird has seen at a full power flat run. doug ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:27:00 PM PST US From: John Eynon Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Nose wheel forks and axle Colin, As I recall, I needed longer bolts for the nose fork assembly, and the stop bolt. I think the spacer blocks are a little larger now then they were originally, which changed the required hardware. I'm pretty sure I used the original axle bolt though. John Eynon ( Purveyor of Quality Correspondence Since 1983 ) On Nov 16, 2008, at 3:44 PM, Colin J. Kennedy wrote: > > Section 38 of the manual says > > "5.Locate the phenolic nose fork spacers (see photo below) and the > AN3-26A bolts, AN960-10 washers (one washer under head and another > under nut) and AN365-1032A nylocks." > > Even with the washer under the head removed, not enough threads > protrude through to secure the nut. Should I get longer bolts or > sand the phenolic spacers? > > The nose wheel axle bolt shank is too short to pass though both > forks, such that the threaded portion is passing through the second > fork. Do I need a bolt with a longer shank, or is this acceptable? > > By making the axle spacers the right length, I can make the wheel > bearings ride on the shank. > > Colin K. > OK > Lightning # 52 under construction. > http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message lightning-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Lightning-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/lightning-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/lightning-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.