---------------------------------------------------------- Lightning-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/30/08: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:08 AM - Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser! (Matt Dralle) 1. 05:53 AM - Re: air speeds (Brian Whittingham) 2. 02:52 PM - December Lightning newsletter (N1BZRich@aol.com) 3. 04:10 PM - N 34 YZ Airworthiness (GARY PENNINGTON) 4. 06:06 PM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (Brian Whittingham) 5. 06:40 PM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS) 6. 08:24 PM - Re: N 34 YZ Airworthiness (N1BZRich@aol.com) 7. 08:28 PM - November newsletter (Jim Langley) 8. 08:33 PM - Re: To Linda (Charles Dewey) 9. 09:47 PM - Re: air speeds (N1BZRich@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:50 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Lightning-List: Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser! Dear Listers, Its November 30th and that means three things:.. 1) Today I am now officially 45 years old... 2) It marks that last "official" day of this year's List Fund Raiser! 3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year! If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam, and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution today to support their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30 goes a long way to keep the List bills paid. I will be posting the List of Contributors next week so make sure your name is on it! Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is greatly appreciated. http://www.matronics.com/contribution Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:51 AM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: air speeds Buz=2C Very interesting and well thought out explanation. I was not aware that the 601 had split flaps. Didn't some F-4 models have leading edge flaps a nd some have slats? I had an old instructor that flew A-4's that had the s lats deploy when the airflow on the wing allowed. He said that it took som e getting used to looking out and seeing one of those deploy on one side an d not the other. I think that I'll teach my students this way as well. I always wondered wh y at Embry-Riddle that we flew wide and slow bomber patterns. We also didn 't start descent until on the base leg. These all were supposed to be for traffic avoidance=2C but I always disagreed with it. (as did some instructo rs) Never mind that we were almost always on a flight plan=2C in controlle d airspace=2C and had a traffic avoidance system on-board. Don't get me wr ong=2C I just think the emphasis should have been on scanning technique rat her than what it was on. I know the risk of dying from a lost engine and f orced landing are much more likely than that of having a mid-air. If I hit something slower=2C but still at 70mph I don't think that you've increased your chances over colliding at 90mph. The part that really never made sen se to me though was the waiting to descend until on base. The typical thin g to do would be to extend out your downwind so that you could keep a norma l glide angle. This put you further from the airport though if you had an engine failure. If you did try to keep in close to the airport then you ha d to have a steeper descent angle and that kind of makes for a more likely mid-air collision I would have to think. I knew that I could make a field or highway on cross-countries but landing in the middle of the city I wante d to know that I could make the airfield as there wasn't anywhere else to g o. Okay I'll get off my soap box now. Brian W. From: N1BZRich@aol.comDate: Sat=2C 29 Nov 2008 23:53:13 -0500Subject: Re: L ightning-List: air speedsTo: lightning-list@matronics.com Because of my USAF flight training=2C I put the flaps full down (30 degrees for a normal Lightning landing) on downwind. This prevents ever being tem pted to lower the flaps while in a turn. If you have never had split flaps - it can be a hand full=2C especially if it happens while in a bank/turn. I have had that once in F-4s and once in the 601XL that the local EAA chap ter built. Thankfully=2C I was still on downwind at the time both occurred .. Another reason I like putting the flaps full down while on downwind is that it allows me to fly a tighter pattern. Don't get me started on the huge p atterns that most pilots fly. I am convinced that 90% of the pilots flying today would never have a chance of making the runway if they lost an engin e while in the pattern because of the large airline or bomber type patterns that are flown. And the problem keeps getting worse because most of today 's instructors teach them because that is what they were taught. Yea=2C I know=2C engines are pretty reliable today. But were we not taught that mos t engine failures happen when you change power settings - either powering u p or down. Pulling the power back to land is where I had an engine failure in the Cub. Blue Skies=2C Buz Life should be easier. So shoum40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try th e NEW AOL.com. _________________________________________________________________ Get more done=2C have more fun=2C and stay more connected with Windows Mobi le=AE. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:30 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Lightning-List: December Lightning newsletter All, This afternoon I send the latest Lightning Newsletter to Pete and Jim to publish on their respective sites, so by tomorrow it should be there for you to read. The December issue is a little longer than usual, at 26 pages, but that includes numerous photos. I think you will enjoy the write up by "Bear" Bryant on weeks two and three of his build at SYI. There are also informative articles by other Lightning builders and flyers. Those types of informative write ups are what make the newsletter fun to read and hopefully provide good information for the Lightning community. So take this as another plea for YOU to share some of your experiences with the rest of the Lightning world. Write something for the newsletter. It is your inputs that help make the newsletter what it is - and hopefully it is both enjoyable and useful to current and future builders and flyers. Anything you write will be appreciated - information you want to share, technical tips, how to articles, trips you took in your Lighting, reports on what people had to say when you took them flying, comments from onlookers when you landed at other airports, absolutely anything, even your favorite photos to be considered for Lightning of the month or other centerfolds. Surely everyone wants to see more of those. Heck if you are bashful, put on a mask. Remember we want the newsletter to be both fun and informative. You can decide which your article or photo is going to be. Just sent your inputs directly to me and I will either make you famous or keep your identity a secret - your choice. Blue Skies, Buz PS: For some inexpensive advertising for the Lightning, print up some copies of the newsletter and share it with your EAA chapter or leave a copy at your local airport. Helping the Lightning team is helping all of you. **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:03 PM PST US From: "GARY PENNINGTON" Subject: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Good afternoon everyone Yesterday was the end of my Lightning build process. She was certified "Airworthy" by the local DAR. Yeah!!!! At long last. Now, a new era begins....working out the bugs. First thing this morning, I completed another thorough inspection and then performed taxi tests. All was good...except the warning messages from the EFIS. I am having difficulty programming the EIS, EFIS and the other black boxes. I'm not really computer challenged, but you wouldn't know now. Nothing seems to be communicating with the EFIS. I guess I'm going to have to bother Ben again. Sorry Ben. After a few tweaks, I lined up on the active runway and applied throttle. With lots of right rudder and a whole lot of anxiety, I zoomed down the pavement. The first startling thing I noticed was the horrible oscillations in the gear legs beginning at about 20 mph. I remembered that other builders experienced the same thing but were able to eliminate it with balancing. So, I continued accelerating. At around 55, I rotated and climbed. The engine turned around 2700 rpms but had a slight vibration. I backed off to about 2600 rpms and it smoothed out. Weird. Warning messages from the EFIS continued squawking but all the temps and pressures were very good. After turning downwind, I backed off the throttle to approx. 1800 rpm to slow down and apply flaps. I discovered that I need to move my right leg as far down as possible to allow stick clearance for aileron authority. Also, the ailerons don't feel to be balanced. I'll call Mark or Nick for advice. After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it turned out, the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down and rolled out. The transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. I spent the next several hours adjusting and tweaking. Afterward, I took off again and did five touch and gos. As I said in the beginning, I have bugs to work out but my girl flys! I have attached two photos for interested parties. Have a great day to all. Gary Pennington ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:09 PM PST US From: Brian Whittingham Subject: RE: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Gary=2C Congratulations on the first flight! She's a great looking bird. The v ibration at 2700 rpm has to do with your mixture most likely. I too have h it the idle too low stop. Good job on getting it down safely. Fly like it 's gonna happen on every flight. (but fix it so that it doesn't!) Many ha ve had a gear shimmy=2C but I don't think anybody has described it as major . This is probably a point to explore further and get fixed ASAP if it's r eally that bad. Many of the other problems are just growing pains. In 5 h ours or so you'll get it all smoothed out. Good luck and fly safe! Brian W. From: pennington@q.comTo: lightning-list@matronics.comSubject: Lightning-Li st: N 34 YZ AirworthinessDate: Sun=2C 30 Nov 2008 17:07:34 -0700 Good afternoon everyone Yesterday was the end of my Lightning build process. She was certified "Air worthy" by the local DAR. Yeah!!!! At long last. Now=2C a new era begins....working out the bugs. First thing this morning=2C I completed another thorough inspection and the n performed taxi tests. All was good...except the warning messages from the EFIS. I am having difficulty programming the EIS=2C EFIS and the other bla ck boxes. I'm not really computer challenged=2C but you wouldn't know now. Nothing seems to be communicating with the EFIS. I guess I'm going to have to bother Ben again. Sorry Ben. After a few tweaks=2C I lined up on the active runway and applied throttle. With lots of right rudder and a whole lot of anxiety=2C I zoomed down the pavement. The first startling thing I noticed was the horrible oscillations in the gear legs beginning at about 20 mph. I remembered that other builde rs experienced the same thing but were able to eliminate it with balancing. So=2C I continued accelerating. At around 55=2C I rotated and climbed. The engine turned around 2700 rpms but had a slight vibration. I backed off to about 2600 rpms and it smoothed out. Weird. Warning messages from the EFIS continued squawking but all the temps and pressures were very good. After turning downwind=2C I backed off the throttle to approx. 1800 rpm to slow down and apply flaps. I discovered that I need to move my right leg as far down as possible to allow stick clearance for aileron authority. Also =2C the ailerons don't feel to be balanced. I'll call Mark or Nick for advi ce. After turning final=2C I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it t urned out=2C the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the thresh old and lots of runway ahead=2C so=2C I just set it down and rolled out. Th e transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. I spent the next several hours adjusting and tweaking. Afterward=2C I took off again and did five touch and gos. As I said in the beginning=2C I have bugs to work out but my girl flys! I have attached two photos for intereste d parties. Have a great day to all. Gary Pennington _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_fast er_112008 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:36 PM PST US From: "JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS" Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Gary, Congratulations! Your plane looks very nice. I have had gear leg shimmy from almost the beginning also; I upgraded to top of the line tires and had them balanced. It disappeared for a while but now is back on most days if my taxi groundspeed is 18 mph or higher; I have noticed that it is worse if there are two people in the plane. I flew a couple days ago (solo) and didn't feel it at all so it seems to come and go without explanation. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: GARY PENNINGTON To: lightning-list Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:07 PM Subject: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Good afternoon everyone Yesterday was the end of my Lightning build process. She was certified "Airworthy" by the local DAR. Yeah!!!! At long last. Now, a new era begins....working out the bugs. First thing this morning, I completed another thorough inspection and then performed taxi tests. All was good...except the warning messages from the EFIS. I am having difficulty programming the EIS, EFIS and the other black boxes. I'm not really computer challenged, but you wouldn't know now. Nothing seems to be communicating with the EFIS. I guess I'm going to have to bother Ben again. Sorry Ben. After a few tweaks, I lined up on the active runway and applied throttle. With lots of right rudder and a whole lot of anxiety, I zoomed down the pavement. The first startling thing I noticed was the horrible oscillations in the gear legs beginning at about 20 mph. I remembered that other builders experienced the same thing but were able to eliminate it with balancing. So, I continued accelerating. At around 55, I rotated and climbed. The engine turned around 2700 rpms but had a slight vibration. I backed off to about 2600 rpms and it smoothed out. Weird. Warning messages from the EFIS continued squawking but all the temps and pressures were very good. After turning downwind, I backed off the throttle to approx. 1800 rpm to slow down and apply flaps. I discovered that I need to move my right leg as far down as possible to allow stick clearance for aileron authority. Also, the ailerons don't feel to be balanced. I'll call Mark or Nick for advice. After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice decent. As it turned out, the idle was too low and the engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down and rolled out. The transition training I received from Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. I spent the next several hours adjusting and tweaking. Afterward, I took off again and did five touch and gos. As I said in the beginning, I have bugs to work out but my girl flys! I have attached two photos for interested parties. Have a great day to all. Gary Pennington ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 11/27/2008 7:53 PM ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:54 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness Great job, Gary, and a good looking "jet" you have there. One thing to try on the gear leg shimmy is to lower the main gear air pressure to 25 to 28 psi and see if that helps. Blue Skies, Buz **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:01 PM PST US From: "Jim Langley" Subject: Lightning-List: November newsletter Once again, thanks to Buz and Linda for putting forth a great effort in getting out the Lightning Newsletter. The latest can be found at http://www.jimslightning.com/html/newsletters.html On another note. Let me say that Buz's tanks are almost dry, but we all can help with a little air to air refueling by participating with the newsletter. Here are some things that you can do to help. - Continue to send your pictures to the list, (completions, in-flight, kids in the canopy, whatever; as long as there is a Lightning in the picture.) - Tell us about your adventures, (I flew to Martinsburg yesterday and did some landings on the same runway where the big C-5s play; how was it?) - Group trips, tell us about it and how the lightning turns the $100 hamburger into a $30 hamburger. - Plans for renovations? (I'm going to mount the new panel in my Lightning) - Experience with avionics? - Your take on equipment that you have used - Inspections and first flights, (thanks Gary) - Tips and tricks like those cool tie downs that Gary came up with - Funny stuff, ("I was standing in line at the bank yesterday when I.") - DEALERS DEALERS DEALERS. What's going at your place? The more we do, the less Buz has to do. Even if we all supplied enough material for a complete newsletter each month, Buz and Linda would have a TON of work to put it all together. It is not a minor undertaking, I know because I used to do it too. Add to that task having to come up with material and you can all see how it can burn someone out pretty quickly. Buz was very subtle with his plea for help, I'm not going to be. WE NEED TO HELP! (phew.) I feel better now Jim! N730AL www.jimslightning.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:04 PM PST US From: Charles Dewey Subject: Re: Lightning-List: To Linda Linda, Would you be willing to give one hour of dual instruction for compensation in your bird to a 50K hour retired Air Force fighter pilot? He has lots of hours in Vans RV's as well. Tenn. is too far from Hagerstown; you are the closest CFI. My insurance is requiring this or I risk the $90K+I have in my plane for 5 hours of uninsured flight. The pilot is willing to fly to your base. I can be reached at 571 212-7231. Thanks for your consideration. Charles --- On Sun, 11/30/08, JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS wrote: > From: JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS > Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness > To: lightning-list@matronics.com > Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 9:40 PM > Gary, > > Congratulations! Your plane looks very nice. I have > had gear leg shimmy from almost the beginning also; I > upgraded to top of the line tires and had them balanced. It > disappeared for a while but now is back on most days if my > taxi groundspeed is 18 mph or higher; I have noticed that it > is worse if there are two people in the plane. I flew a > couple days ago (solo) and didn't feel it at all so it > seems to come and go without explanation. > > Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: GARY PENNINGTON > To: lightning-list > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:07 PM > Subject: Lightning-List: N 34 YZ Airworthiness > > > Good afternoon everyone > > Yesterday was the end of my Lightning build process. She > was certified "Airworthy" by the local DAR. > Yeah!!!! At long last. > Now, a new era begins....working out the bugs. > > First thing this morning, I completed another thorough > inspection and then performed taxi tests. All was > good...except the warning messages from the EFIS. I am > having difficulty programming the EIS, EFIS and the other > black boxes. I'm not really computer challenged, but you > wouldn't know now. Nothing seems to be communicating > with the EFIS. I guess I'm going to have to bother Ben > again. Sorry Ben. > > After a few tweaks, I lined up on the active runway and > applied throttle. With lots of right rudder and a whole lot > of anxiety, I zoomed down the pavement. The first startling > thing I noticed was the horrible oscillations in the gear > legs beginning at about 20 mph. I remembered that other > builders experienced the same thing but were able to > eliminate it with balancing. So, I continued accelerating. > At around 55, I rotated and climbed. The engine turned > around 2700 rpms but had a slight vibration. I backed off to > about 2600 rpms and it smoothed out. Weird. Warning messages > from the EFIS continued squawking but all the temps and > pressures were very good. > > After turning downwind, I backed off the throttle to > approx. 1800 rpm to slow down and apply flaps. I discovered > that I need to move my right leg as far down as possible to > allow stick clearance for aileron authority. Also, the > ailerons don't feel to be balanced. I'll call Mark > or Nick for advice. > > After turning final, I pulled the throttle off for a nice > decent. As it turned out, the idle was too low and the > engine died. There was a certain amount of "Pucker > Factor" involved at that moment but I was over the > threshold and lots of runway ahead, so, I just set it down > and rolled out. The transition training I received from > Arion was life saving. Thanks guys. > > I spent the next several hours adjusting and tweaking. > Afterward, I took off again and did five touch and gos. As I > said in the beginning, I have bugs to work out but my girl > flys! I have attached two photos for interested parties. > > Have a great day to all. > > Gary Pennington > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > 11/27/2008 7:53 PM ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:28 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lightning-List: air speeds In a message dated 11/30/2008 8:54:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dashvii@hotmail.com writes: I was not aware that the 601 had split flaps. Didn't some F-4 models have leading edge flaps and some have slats? Well, the 601 is not supposed to have split flaps, but the way the left and right flaps are interconnected via telescoping 4130 tubes that are bolted together inside the fuselage, it became possible after some wear in the bolt holes or breakage of the AN3 bolt. I corrected the situation by welding the tubes together. The F-4E after a certain serial number did have leading edge slats that would program out during maneuvering flight based on a certain AOA. Good for a turning dog fight, but the extra drag of the larger hinges etc, really took away from top speed. They were hard to get much over Mach 2, where as a clean F-4C or D would readily go above Mach 2. I once had an old C model to Mach 2.32. You know the old saying - Speed is life. We easily out ran F-15s, 16s and 18s in Red Flag exercises. But the really fast old fighter is the 105. We used to race them out of North Vietnam. Initially we could easily out accelerate them at full military power (and sometimes AB) when leaving the target area, but about 20 or 30 miles later they would catch us and slowly walk away. Of course the Thud was originally designed to be a low altitude high speed penetrator and it did that job very well. Blue Skies, Buz **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. 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